[Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices

Michael Whapples mwhapples at aim.com
Thu Nov 17 10:42:28 UTC 2011 

As memory goes, 0 has a different meaning here and would be wrong to use.

Michael Whapples
On 16/11/11 23:21, Tami Kinney wrote:
> What about using "NULL" to indicate that the blank cell represents a 
> null value? Or "0" which, I suppose in this context would mean pretty 
> much the same thing... Depending.
>
> Just a thought. /smile/
>
> I am loving this discussion!
>
> Tami
>
> On 11/16/2011 12:45 PM, Birkir R. Gunnarsson wrote:
>> My worry is that I am not sure that screen readers all necessarily
>> announce black cells, they may simply skipover them to the next
>> non-blank cell. If this isn't the case for any screen reader, there is
>> no worry. If there is, this is a huge problem, when you need to be
>> absolutely sure which cells in a matrix are blank.
>> Also I thought that entering, say a "--" would look visually appealing
>> enough, thogh I don't know this.
>> That is the source of my point. If I am working with a 4 by 4 matrix
>> with blanks in it, I want to be sure that it is a 4 by 4 set of cells
>> and I can identify the contents of each, even if it is blank.
>>
>>
>> On 11/16/11, Michael Whapples<mwhapples at aim.com> wrote:
>>> I think the main point missed here is that NVDA can do cell 
>>> navigation, OK
>>> may be not quite as nice (in some peoples' minds) but still perfectly
>>> accessible. I am sure if it became such an issue someone would feel 
>>> pushed
>>> enough to add it to opensource products like NVDA and then that 
>>> might push
>>> the commercial offerings to catch up as they would be lacking.
>>>
>>> Michael Whapples
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Sina Bahram"<sbahram at nc.rr.com>
>>> To:<john.gardner at orst.edu>; "'Blind Math list for those interested in
>>> mathematics'"<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 11:41 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
>>>
>>>
>>>> That's cell navigation, no? in other words, that read 2, 5, 8 if 
>>>> you were
>>>> navigating down a keypad, instead of reading, 1,2,3:
>>>> 4,5,6: 7,8,9.
>>>>
>>>> Take care,
>>>> Sina
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>>> [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>> On Behalf Of John Gardner
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 5:39 PM
>>>> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
>>>>
>>>> Hmmm, it is news to me. I use CTRL-ALT arrows to navigate html tables
>>>> with
>>>> NVDA all the time. I know the NVDA folks are developing richer table
>>>> navigation, but this row/column navigation method works perfectly 
>>>> well. I
>>>> actually prefer NVDA for this purpose and lots of other web tasks,
>>>> particularly filling out forms. It is really stable compared to the 
>>>> other
>>>> screen readers.
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>>> [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>> On
>>>> Behalf Of Sina Bahram
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 1:51 PM
>>>> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
>>>>
>>>> I just confirmed this. NVDA does not currently have row/column 
>>>> reading,
>>>> but
>>>> I'll be requesting this, today.
>>>>
>>>> I'm discussing the matter with some folks on twitter. *glances at 
>>>> previous
>>>> statement, and shakes head* never thought I'd say that,
>>>> before.
>>>>
>>>> Ken, thanks again for the heads up.
>>>>
>>>> Take care,
>>>> Sina
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>>> [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>> On
>>>> Behalf Of Ken Perry
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 4:40 PM
>>>> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No what I mean is a way to read the entire row for example 7 8 9 NVDA
>>>> doesn't seem to have that feature as of yet. In jaws they use 
>>>> Microsoft
>>>> key , for rows and Microsoft key . for columns It is just an easy 
>>>> way to
>>>> read the whole set of numbers and. The cell navigation is a good as 
>>>> well
>>>> which it seems all the screen readers handle that.
>>>>
>>>> Ken
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>>> [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>> On
>>>> Behalf Of Michael Whapples
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 3:30 PM
>>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
>>>>
>>>> I am not sure what keys you mean.
>>>>
>>>> To navigate by cells in NVDA you use ctrl+alt+<cursors> to move 
>>>> around the
>>>> table. Also users of the Mac and voiceover have this sort of 
>>>> navigation.
>>>>
>>>> If you mean a way of defining which order NVDA reads through a 
>>>> table when
>>>> doing continuous reading, then there is no option for that. However I
>>>> would
>>>> imagine such a feature would be fairly simple to be added for those 
>>>> who
>>>> are
>>>> familiar with NVDA code.
>>>>
>>>> Michael Whapples
>>>> On 15 Nov 2011, at 19:03, Ken Perry wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I agree with you in essence but when your designing something for a
>>>>> class it would be nice if the students who can not afford jaws can
>>>>> still get good access like I said I hope I am missing the keys for
>>>>> NVDA but I haven't found them yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ken
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>> [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sina Bahram
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 1:35 PM
>>>>> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
>>>>>
>>>>> Wait a minute, NVDA doesn't have row/column reading?
>>>>>
>>>>> First off, let's not code to the lowest common denominator: we have
>>>>> enough of that in this field.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can't speak to system access, but I will start contacting NVDA guys
>>>>> right now about this issue.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ken, thanks for the heads up. I just assumed they had something so 
>>>>> basic.
>>>>>
>>>>> Take care,
>>>>> Sina
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>> [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ken Perry
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 1:23 PM
>>>>> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree except for one problem. With jaws you can use windows , and
>>>>> windows . to read the row or column in order but I have yet to find a
>>>>> way to do that with either system access or nvda. My first method
>>>>> allows you to read a whole row no matter the screen reader so I guess
>>>>> it depends if you need to be able to read a whole row of the numbers.
>>>>> Maybe you could add this feature fast enough to NVDA though, if it is
>>>>> not there and I just have not found it.
>>>>>
>>>>> OH all the screen readers seem to read the table version of the 
>>>>> matrix
>>>>> fine by cells its just the row and column reading that I like with
>>>>> Jaws if you have to use tables.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>> [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sina Bahram
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 1:05 PM
>>>>> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
>>>>>
>>>>> Where as a simple html table would be ideal for both.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>> [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Richard Baldwin
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 12:50 PM
>>>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
>>>>>
>>>>> I am assuming that the blind student can scroll up and down through
>>>>> the rows using the up and down arrow keys, encountering only three
>>>>> values with each press of the arrow key.
>>>>>
>>>>> Another alternative would be to put all nine values for a 3x3 matrix
>>>>> on the same line with some sort of delimiter to indicate that each
>>>>> group of 3 values represents a row.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, there is a problem with this also. Despite the need to
>>>>> accommodate blind students in the course, I must also make certain
>>>>> that I accommodate the needs of sighted students. Sighted students 
>>>>> are
>>>>> accustomed to seeing matrices written in rows and columns and all of
>>>>> the textbooks present matrices in that format. I must use a format
>>>>> that works for both the blind students and the sighted students, 
>>>>> which
>>>>> is one of the reasons that I like this approach. It should work for
>>>>> blind students and it looks nominally correct for sighted 
>>>>> students. Not
>>>> ideal for either but adequate for both.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dick Baldwin
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Ken Perry<kperry at blinksoft.com> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The good part is if you have it in this kind of form and the student
>>>>>> has another form he or she likes better its not hard to reparse 
>>>>>> this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ken
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>> On
>>>>>> Behalf Of Richard Baldwin
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 12:21 PM
>>>>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Great! This makes it work. Now when I tab into the first row of the
>>>>>> matrix, I hear three bar nine bar eight. Given an announcement 
>>>>>> that a
>>>>>> matrix follows, a blind student should be able to mentally separate
>>>>>> the columns and the rows without having to space through the
>>>>>> characters individually.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This scheme, or something very similar is what I will probably use.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Dick Baldwin
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 9:26 AM, Icewolf<icewolf2011 at gtwebdesign.us>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>> I don't have my copy of NVDA up at the moment. To change the
>>>>>>> punctuation
>>>>>>> level:
>>>>>>> 1. From the desktop press NVDA(insert key) plus n. This will get
>>>>>>> you into NVDA's settings.
>>>>>>> 2. Arrow down to preferences, then arrow right into the menu.
>>>>>>> 3. Arrow down till you hear, or see, the voice settings option and
>>>>>>> then press enter.
>>>>>>> 4. Once in this dialog box tab around till you see or hear the
>>>>>>> punctuation option. This will be a combo box.
>>>>>>> 5. Arrow up and down through the choices. I believe they are none,
>>>>>>> some, most, and all.
>>>>>>> 6. Choose all then tab to ok and press enter.
>>>>>>> There might be a way to do this on the fly without having to go 
>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>> the preferences menu, but I am still a novice at NVDA and don't 
>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>> yet.
>>>>>>> Hope this helps,
>>>>>>> Greg W.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yesterday is forever gone, tomorrow may never come, today is the 
>>>>>>> day
>>>>>>> of all days.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 11/15/2011 9:47 AM, Richard Baldwin wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ken,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You wrote: "Did you turn punctuation to all before trying this?"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm a novice at using NVDA.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How do I make that setting?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> Dick Baldwin
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 8:35 AM, Ken Perry<kperry at blinksoft.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Did you turn punctuation to all before trying this?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ken
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces@**
>>>>>>>>> nfbnet.org<blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org>] On Behalf Of Richard
>>>>>>>>> Baldwin
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 9:26 AM
>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This approach works pretty well with NVDA as long as there is an
>>>>>>>>> announcement immediately before the matrix that a matrix follows.
>>>>>>>>> This is needed so the student will know to use the right and left
>>>>>>>>> arrow keys to step through the matrix elements. When the down
>>>>>>>>> arrow is used to enter the matrix, NVDA simply speaks 398 with no
>>>>>>>>> acknowledgement of the bars (or semicolons either);
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dick Baldwin
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 7:14 AM, Ken Perry<kperry at blinksoft.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I know everyone on here will cringe but in truth this is how I
>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>> want it but again I like using just a text editor and this way
>>>>>>>>>> seems to work great with jaws for me. This is just a simple page
>>>>>>>>>> with a 3 by
>>>>>>>>>> 3 matrix. It has the bars because<pre> elements don't get
>>>>> converted.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <html>
>>>>>>>>>> <body>
>>>>>>>>>> <H1>A Matrix</h1>
>>>>>>>>>> <pre>
>>>>>>>>>> 3 | 9 | 8
>>>>>>>>>> 4 | 6 | 5
>>>>>>>>>> 6 | 4 | 8
>>>>>>>>>> </pre>
>>>>>>>>>> </body>
>>>>>>>>>> </html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindmath-bounces@**nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org>] On Behalf Of Richard Baldwin
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 8:03 AM
>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Ken,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So far, that seems to be the most accessible option. I suppose I
>>>>>>>>>> could style the matrices as<pre>xx</pre> and put them in XHTML
>>>>>>>>>> tables. That should make them accessible to a screen reader and
>>>>>>>>>> also make them look reasonable for the sighted students in the
>>>>>>>>>> course. Maybe there is a unicode character that could be used to
>>>>>>>>>> create the vertical bars that typically appear on printed 
>>>>>>>>>> matrices.
>>>>>>>>>> If so, I wonder how a screen reader would treat those 
>>>>>>>>>> characters.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Other suggestions are welcome.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>> Dick Baldwin
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 6:47 AM, Ken Perry<kperry at blinksoft.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> When I did my matrix class back in the early 90's I used a text
>>>>>>>>>>> editor and an old laptop calculator called Xplore. The
>>>>>>>>>>> calculator still exists but the newest version is not that
>>>>>>>>>>> accessible. I would just type the matrix out in a text editor
>>>>>>>>>>> and space the
>>>>>> columns.
>>>>>>>>>>> That way when I wanted two add two rows I would block one row
>>>>>>>>>>> and put it under the other and move things around. I know that
>>>>>>>>>>> is not pretty but it gave me a good feel of how the sighted
>>>>>>>>>>> folks
>>>>> did it.
>>>>>>>>>>> I got to the point where I could do up to 2 4 by 4 matrixes in
>>>>>>>>>>> my head only writing down values as I multiplied them or if I
>>>>>>>>>>> was trying to solve them. It would take a bit of work to get
>>>>>>>>>>> back to that point now but all I am saying is don't give up on
>>>>>>>>>>> the simple text editor it sometimes is nice to be able to
>>>>>>>>>>> easily see all the
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> numbers in a row at a time.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ken
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindmath-bounces@**nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org>] On Behalf Of Richard Baldwin
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 6:53 AM
>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Accessible display format for matrices
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Pranav,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the input. I understand how a spreadsheet can be 
>>>>>>>>>>> used
>>>>>>>>>>> for doing matrix computations. The main thing that I am looking
>>>>>>>>>>> for is the most accessible display format. For example, MathML
>>>>>>>>>>> can be used to create beautiful matrix equations in an HTML 
>>>>>>>>>>> page.
>>>>>>>>>>> Beautiful, that is, for sighted students. However, NVDA becomes
>>>>>>>>>>> silent when it encounters MathML in a web page. I don't have a
>>>>>>>>>>> copy of Jaws, so I don't know how it reacts to MathML in a web
>>>>>>>>>>> page.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Most normal equations can be handled in an accessible manner by
>>>>>>>>>>> writing them on a single line using programming format. Matrix
>>>>>>>>>>> equations, on the other hand typically require three or four 
>>>>>>>>>>> lines.
>>>>>>>>>>> I wondering how to configure those three or four lines in 
>>>>>>>>>>> such a
>>>>>>>>>>> way that a blind student can make sense of them.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>> Dick Baldwin
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 4:11 AM, Pranav
>>>>>>>>>>> Lal<pranav.lal at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Richard,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I have worked a bit with matrices. At the time I did, a
>>>>>>>>>>>> spreadsheet was the solution I chose. I could add rows and
>>>>>>>>>>>> columns without a fuss and they were accessible. Excel is the
>>>>>>>>>>>> tool to go for in windows. No special tool is required.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/15/11, Richard
>>>>>>>>>>>> Baldwin<baldwin at dickbaldwin.**com<baldwin at dickbaldwin.com>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will be teaching the following course for the first time in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Spring
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012 semester.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> GAME 2302 - Mathematical Applications for Game Development
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (3-3-1) Presents applications of mathematics and science in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> game and simulation programming. Includes the utilization of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> matrix and vector operations, kinematics, and Newtonian
>>>>>>>>>>>>> principles in games and simulations. Also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> covers
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> code optimization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The course must be accessible for blind and VI students. Even
>>>>>>>>>>>>> if there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> accessible textbooks at the college level covering these
>>>>>>>>>>>>> topics (which I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> doubt) it is far too late to adopt a new textbook for the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> course.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really need suggestions from those who teach mathematics 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind students who study mathematics regarding the most
>>>>>>>>>>>>> accessible formats for presenting matrix equations.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If special reader software is required (beyond a standard
>>>>>>>>>>>>> screen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> reader), I
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> need to know that also.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dick Baldwin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin) Home of Baldwin's on-line
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Java Tutorials http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Professor of Computer Information Technology Austin Community
>>>>>>>>>>>>> College
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (512) 223-4758
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.austincc.edu/**baldwin/<http://www.austincc.edu/bal 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> dw in/> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>>> pranav.lal%
>>>>>>>>>>>> 40
>>>>>>>>>>>> gm
>>>>>>>>>>>> ail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>> g/baldwin%40d>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ic
>>>>>>>>>>>> kb
>>>>>>>>>>>> aldwin.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>>>> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin) Home of Baldwin's on-line 
>>>>>>>>>>> Java
>>>>>>>>>>> Tutorials http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Professor of Computer Information Technology Austin Community
>>>>>>>>>>> College
>>>>>>>>>>> (512) 223-4758
>>>>>>>>>>> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.austincc.edu/**baldwin/
>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/>
>>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>> rg/kperry%40blin>
>>>>>>>>>>> ks
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>>>>>>>>>>> m
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Blindmath mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> .o
>>>>>>>>>>> rg/baldwin%40dic>
>>>>>>>>>>> kb
>>>>>>>>>>> aldwin.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>>> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin) Home of Baldwin's on-line Java
>>>>>>>>>> Tutorials http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Professor of Computer Information Technology Austin Community
>>>>>>>>>> College
>>>>>>>>>> (512) 223-4758
>>>>>>>>>> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.austincc.edu/**baldwin/
>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/>
>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>>>> Blindmath mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> org/kperry%40blinks>
>>>>>>>>>> oft.co
>>>>>>>>>> m
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>>>> Blindmath mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> org/baldwin%40dickb>
>>>>>>>>>> aldwin.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>>>>>>>>> Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
>>>>>>>>> http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Professor of Computer Information Technology Austin Community
>>>>>>>>> College
>>>>>>>>> (512) 223-4758
>>>>>>>>> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>>>>>>>>> http://www.austincc.edu/**baldwin/
>>>>>>>>> <http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/>
>>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> nf
>>>>>>>>> bnet.org/kperry%40blinksoft.co>
>>>>>>>>> m
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>>> Blindmath mailing list
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>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org<http://n 
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> fb net.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> Blindmath:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/**
>>>>>>>>> baldwin%40dickbaldwin.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindm 
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> at h_nfbnet.org/baldwin%40dickbaldwin.com>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>>>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org<http://nfb 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ne t.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> Blindmath:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/**
>>>>>>> baldwin%40dickbaldwin.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmat 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> h_ nfbnet.org/baldwin%40dickbaldwin.com>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>>>>>> Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Professor of Computer Information Technology Austin Community 
>>>>>> College
>>>>>> (512) 223-4758
>>>>>> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>>>>>> http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> Blindmath:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/kperry%40blink 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> s
>>>>>> oft.co
>>>>>> m
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> Blindmath:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/baldwin%40dick 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> b
>>>>>> aldwin.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>>>>> Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>>>>>
>>>>> Professor of Computer Information Technology Austin Community College
>>>>> (512) 223-4758
>>>>> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>>>>> http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Blindmath:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sbahram%40nc.rr 
>>>>>
>>>>> .com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Blindmath:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/kperry%40blinks 
>>>>>
>>>>> oft.co
>>>>> m
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sbahram%40nc.rr 
>>>>>
>>>>> .com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Blindmath:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/kperry%40blinks 
>>>>>
>>>>> oft.co
>>>>> m
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Blindmath:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/mwhapples%40aim 
>>>>>
>>>>> .com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Blindmath:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/kperry%40blinksoft.co 
>>>>
>>>> m
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sbahram%40nc.rr.com 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Blindmath:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/john.gardner%40orst.e 
>>>>
>>>> du
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Blindmath:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sbahram%40nc.rr.com 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Blindmath:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/mwhapples%40aim.com 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>>>> signature database 6636 (20111116) __________
>>>>
>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.eset.com
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
>>> signature
>>> database 6636 (20111116) __________
>>>
>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
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>>> Blindmath:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/birkir.gunnarsson%40gmail.com 
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> Blindmath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/tamara.8024%40comcast.net 
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Blindmath:
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>

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