[Blindmath] jaws and spss

Wed Nov 30 01:49:56 UTC 2011

Stick with version 15!
The problem is on IBM's end.  This is an ongoing problem and there are
people working on a solution right now.  I can write a script to make almost
anything talk, if it writes to the display correctly.  SPSs does not do
that!

-----Original Message-----
From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of blindmath-request at nfbnet.org
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 1:00 PM
To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
Subject: Blindmath Digest, Vol 64, Issue 29

Send Blindmath mailing list submissions to
	blindmath at nfbnet.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
	blindmath-request at nfbnet.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
	blindmath-owner at nfbnet.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Blindmath digest..."

Today's Topics:

   1. Re: to read laTex (Andrew Stacey)
   2. Re: to read laTex (Michael Whapples)
   3. Re: to read laTex (Pranav Lal)
   4. Re: to read laTex (Susan Jolly)
   5. Re: to read laTex (Amanda Lacy)
   6. Re: to read laTex (Michael Whapples)
   7. SPSS 19 and JAWS (Philip So)
   8. Re: SPSS 19 and JAWS (Ian Perrault)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 20:17:42 +0100
From: Andrew Stacey <andrew.stacey at math.ntnu.no>
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
	<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] to read laTex
Message-ID: <20111128191741.GA23129 at fimf-t19.math.ntnu.no>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 05:27:53PM +0000, Michael Whapples wrote:
> I possibly would say that it would be wrong for MathType to simplify the
> equations more. My reasoning is that the LaTeX mode of MathType is also
for
> input and removing some of those braces could actually lead to a different
> visual appearance of the equation.
> 
> Its this reason of what happens when the equation is recompiled that I say
> LaTeX is really a good authoring system but not a reading system IE. what
> gives good output visually when compiled is not necessarily good for
reading
> and vice versa.

As an example, the code "x {=} y" and "x = y" display differently when
compiled to PDF but I would imagine that for reading the mathematics then
the
difference is pretty minimal.

(Quoted originally from Ben)

> > I have in fact written such a Perl script to do this for Mathtype to
Latex
> > conversions produced by my own Math professor.  But the pattern matching
> > gets pretty difficult when extraneous curly braces are inserted here and
> > there.  One almost needs a gramatical parser to simplify the expressions
> > and THEN do a translation.

I've written a few scripts and the like for manipulating TeX documents.  My
first ones were largely pattern based but I eventually realised that this
didn't work and I ended up writing an implementation of TeX's "mouth" and
"stomach" in Perl.  Even that wasn't great, so I took literally the
statement
that "the only thing that understands TeX is tex itself" and wrote a class
that converts a LaTeX document to some other format.  As it works in tex
itself then it can understand true LaTeX syntax, including all those
horrendous braces.  I've not mentioned it before on this list because I
don't
know what output format would be appropriate for the readers here, and it is
very much in alpha/beta (though I use it for writing all my documents that
end
up on webpages now so it's definitely usable).  I only mention it now
because
of the above about Perl scripts and so I want to save anyone the pain I went
through on that route!  Anyone interested or intrigued is welcome to contact
me off-list.

Andrew

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 20:44:37 +0000
From: Michael Whapples <mwhapples at aim.com>
To: andrew.stacey at math.ntnu.no,	Blind Math list for those interested
	in mathematics <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] to read laTex
Message-ID: <B6A762F9-A622-49B8-94DD-0C607665AD7D at aim.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252

Yes your example is sort of what I was getting at (well at least on a small
scale). The impact on reading comes when you start scaling that up, I have
had equations which start like {{\frac{{x{? and you can imagine how tracking
where you are and what the meaning of any closing brace is can be quite
difficult.

Michael Whapples
On 28 Nov 2011, at 19:17, Andrew Stacey wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 05:27:53PM +0000, Michael Whapples wrote:
>> I possibly would say that it would be wrong for MathType to simplify the
>> equations more. My reasoning is that the LaTeX mode of MathType is also
for
>> input and removing some of those braces could actually lead to a
different
>> visual appearance of the equation.
>> 
>> Its this reason of what happens when the equation is recompiled that I
say
>> LaTeX is really a good authoring system but not a reading system IE. what
>> gives good output visually when compiled is not necessarily good for
reading
>> and vice versa.
> 
> As an example, the code "x {=} y" and "x = y" display differently when
> compiled to PDF but I would imagine that for reading the mathematics then
the
> difference is pretty minimal.
> 
> (Quoted originally from Ben)
> 
>>> I have in fact written such a Perl script to do this for Mathtype to
Latex
>>> conversions produced by my own Math professor.  But the pattern matching
>>> gets pretty difficult when extraneous curly braces are inserted here and
>>> there.  One almost needs a gramatical parser to simplify the expressions
>>> and THEN do a translation.
> 
> I've written a few scripts and the like for manipulating TeX documents.
My
> first ones were largely pattern based but I eventually realised that this
> didn't work and I ended up writing an implementation of TeX's "mouth" and
> "stomach" in Perl.  Even that wasn't great, so I took literally the
statement
> that "the only thing that understands TeX is tex itself" and wrote a class
> that converts a LaTeX document to some other format.  As it works in tex
> itself then it can understand true LaTeX syntax, including all those
> horrendous braces.  I've not mentioned it before on this list because I
don't
> know what output format would be appropriate for the readers here, and it
is
> very much in alpha/beta (though I use it for writing all my documents that
end
> up on webpages now so it's definitely usable).  I only mention it now
because
> of the above about Perl scripts and so I want to save anyone the pain I
went
> through on that route!  Anyone interested or intrigued is welcome to
contact
> me off-list.
> 
> Andrew
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/mwhapples%40aim.com

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 06:08:24 +0530
From: "Pranav Lal" <pranav.lal at gmail.com>
To: "'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'"
	<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] to read laTex
Message-ID: <00ea01ccae2f$3904e5e0$ab0eb1a0$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Hi MAYANK,

Grab edSharp from http://www.empowermentzone.com/edsetup.exe  and see its
laTex mode.

Pranav 

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 15:02:07 -1000
From: Susan Jolly <easjolly at ix.netcom.com>
To: "blindmath at nfbnet.org" <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] to read laTex
Message-ID: <3266EA4F-675D-49F1-98AD-AAF7DEB9B1E2 at ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Sent from my wonderful iPad

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 19:07:53 -0600
From: "Amanda Lacy" <lacy925 at gmail.com>
To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics"
	<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] to read laTex
Message-ID: <F4375010E939441AA6C20AF23B027238 at DD4DJCK1>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

What?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Susan Jolly" <easjolly at ix.netcom.com>
To: <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 7:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] to read laTex

>
>
> Sent from my wonderful iPad
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/lacy925%40gmail.com

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 11:55:21 +0000
From: Michael Whapples <mwhapples at aim.com>
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
	<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] to read laTex
Message-ID: <57968DC0-1EEF-4871-862C-4F638AB90192 at aim.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On 29 Nov 2011, at 01:07, Amanda Lacy wrote:

> What?
I think a case of the wonderful iPad not including the content of the email.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Jolly" <easjolly at ix.netcom.com>
> To: <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 7:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] to read laTex
> 
> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my wonderful iPad
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Blindmath:
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/lacy925%40gmail.com 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/mwhapples%40aim.com

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 11:54:59 -0500
From: Philip So <philipso101 at gmail.com>
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
	<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [Blindmath] SPSS 19 and JAWS
Message-ID:
	<CA+rjGdu4UmTZErPD3SJq-_7Q-WYzAnqCnEGZeKXkm0gatXU0og at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hi group,

I want to document everyone's experience with SPSS used with JAWS.  Is
anyone here able to make SPSS fully accessible?  I use SPSS 15 with
JAWS 11 and it's only partially accessible. Now I'm about to get SPSS
19/SPSS 20 but want to know how accessible it is before making the
switch. Please share your experience and tell us which version of
SPSS, which version of JAWS, which version of Windows you have and how
accessible it is for you.

Hopefully this information will also help everyone.Thanks!!

Phil

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 12:10:31 -0500
From: "Ian Perrault" <iperrault at hotmail.com>
To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics"
	<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] SPSS 19 and JAWS
Message-ID: <SNT111-DS20986759ED8A2A6D1A66A1BFB30 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

    I wouldn't make the switch. Unfortunately, SPSS 19 is completely 
inaccessible with JAWS 13, Windows 7, and a 64-bit operating system. Since 
IBM now runs SPSS, I called them and we spent almost this whole semester 
trying to get it to work, and a bunch of prior posts on this list also said 
that it simply doesn't work. I also e-mailed Freedom Scientific and asked 
them to get JAWS scripts for all future versions of JAWS and SPSS, since 
this program is more and more common for students. So hopefully soon Freedom

Scientific and IBM will work together and make it accessible. 

------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Blindmath mailing list
Blindmath at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org

End of Blindmath Digest, Vol 64, Issue 29
*****************************************