[Blindmath] Some suggestions for Richard Baldwin's SVGdrawingtool

Tue Oct 4 21:08:00 UTC 2011

I've been thinking this for a while. I suppose the program would have to 
know how to keep track of groups of shapes. These could either be from an 
imported file or created on the fly. For example, I could go into the shapes 
list, select four lines, one rectangle, and one circle and decide to call 
that group "stick figure". This would only last for the duration of the 
program, as I do not think that SVG supports anything like this, but while 
the program is running you could create an army of stick figures.

Amanda
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Whapples" <mwhapples at aim.com>
To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics" 
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 3:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Some suggestions for Richard Baldwin's 
SVGdrawingtool

> Hello,
>
> I possibly could help out with writing some parts of code as I do know how 
> to programme Java applications. However I would say I have no clue how 
> much time I could commit to it as I tend to have a number of other things 
> on the go.
>
> I have a question/suggestion. How does the SVG import feature work (the 
> import for drawings done in SVG draw)? The way the instructions I have 
> read, seem to suggest one could build up a library of shapes/objects they 
> wish to use and then you could import that. As an example, arrow heads 
> could be quite useful for many types of diagram, may be also stick 
> figures, etc, so I could have a library of these elements in separate SVG 
> files. My question is, when I import these, how convenient is it to 
> scale/position these "elements" I import? Would it be possible for these 
> to become single elements of the diagram? May be that latter one is 
> stretching what SVG could do, but hopefully you see why it would be useful 
> (IE. if I need to reposition it again then I could just find "stick 
> figure" from the list of elements and then adjust like other elements like 
> lines or circles, rather than having to select all the individual parts 
> which make up that stick figure).
>
> Michael Whapples
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Richard Baldwin" <baldwin at dickbaldwin.com>
> To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics" 
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 6:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Some suggestions for Richard Baldwin's SVG 
> drawingtool
>
>
>> Thanks for the feedback. I will insert my responses in your test below.
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:04 AM, Michael Whapples <mwhapples at aim.com> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>> I have just tried using Richard Baldwin's SVG drawing tool. This is 
>>> quite
>>> useful. I have a few comments/suggestions to make.
>>>
>>> The first is whether it would be possible to also have an option for 
>>> metric
>>> units? I was having to create a diagram from some measurements I had in
>>> metric and it would have been so much easier if I could have just 
>>> entered
>>> values in metric.
>>>
>>
>> rgb] This is definitely possible, so I will put it on my todo list.
>>
>>>
>>> Also, it seems simple enough to use, however particularly on the save, 
>>> the
>>> action based approach was slightly unusual and caught me out. I am very 
>>> much
>>> used to most software having save only prompt for file name when you 
>>> first
>>> save and should you want to save under a different file name then you 
>>> use
>>> "save as". I guess this is really a familiarity issue, once I remembered
>>> this tool needed me to confirm the save it worked fine.
>>>
>>
>> rgb] Good point. I will put this on the list also and consider a more
>> standard approach.
>>
>>>
>>> May be also related to the action based approach, sometimes things 
>>> seemed
>>> to require more action from me than felt needed. I guess one point might 
>>> be
>>> when I select set attributes, why cannot the list of elements be created
>>> then, why do I need to press another button?
>>>
>>
>> rgb] This is also a good point and I will put it on my todo list to
>> consider. The same thing occurs on most of the actions on the Mod menu 
>> and
>> the Advanced menu. Do you have any other suggestions as to where the 
>> number
>> of steps required is excessive for a blind user?
>>
>>>
>>> I quite like the way of marking elements when editing them, however how
>>> might one deselect something if they made a mistake and how can one tell 
>>> if
>>> an item is selected or not? May be the answer is in the instructions but 
>>> you
>>> know what it can be like when you have to read documentation... I 
>>> possibly
>>> say really well designed software shouldn't need people to read
>>> documentation as it should be obvious what to do (either because the
>>> software is so clear or it just follows a convention on how to get the
>>> specific help you need).
>>>
>>
>> rgb] Maybe someday I will have context-sensitive help, but that day will
>> probably be a long way off, or else I will have to hire programming
>> assistance and charge dollars for the program instead of giving it away 
>> for
>> free. If you have other suggestions for a better design, I would like to
>> hear them.
>>
>> rgb] Your first question in the above paragraph regarding
>> selecting/deselecting is a good one. I will put it on my list to 
>> consider.
>> As it stands now, when you mark an object, you get a message box asking 
>> you
>> to confirm the selection, so you have an opportunity to cancel the 
>> selection
>> at that point. The corrective procedure if you select the wrong object 
>> and
>> confirm that selection is to simply tab past the action button at the 
>> bottom
>> and start that action over again.
>>
>>>
>>> I have to say I did feel a little uncertain on editing some of the 
>>> diagram,
>>> may be its to do with the options available for editing and may be some 
>>> of
>>> its to do with not quite knowing what is there (IE. no way to view the
>>> current diagram). I guess that latter point, users of the voice would 
>>> say
>>> that is what the voice is for.
>>>
>>
>> rgb] Right now, the best way to view the current drawing is to save it 
>> and
>> open the SVG file in Firefox, Chrome, or IE9 (IE8 and lower won't work). 
>> It
>> is reasonably easy to act, save, refresh Firefox, and view.
>>
>> rgb] I will soon publish a version that has a real-time visual output for
>> sighted users, vOICe uses, and users with some but low vision. If you 
>> have
>> suggestions as to how to make it possible for blind users to view the
>> drawing other than to use the Review action in the Mod menu, to use
>> something like vOICe, or to emboss the current drawing, I would like to 
>> hear
>> about them.
>>
>> Again,
>> Thanks for the feedback. I will put your suggestions on my todo list for
>> incorporation into future versions.
>>
>>>
>>> Michael Whapples
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>> Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
>> http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>>
>> Professor of Computer Information Technology
>> Austin Community College
>> (512) 223-4758
>> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>> http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
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>
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