[Blindmath] Some suggestions for Richard Baldwin'sSVGdrawingtool

Tue Oct 4 21:13:28 UTC 2011

I have the feeling that in IVEO there is a group element for grouping 
elements together. I would imagine that it is an SVG thing as IVEO is based 
on SVG. How easily that could be implemented for importing, I do not know. 
However, as you say even within one drawing this could be useful. May be 
also coming from that, a duplicate element/group might be good.

Michael Whapples
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Amanda Lacy" <lacy925 at gmail.com>
To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics" 
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 10:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Some suggestions for Richard 
Baldwin'sSVGdrawingtool

> I've been thinking this for a while. I suppose the program would have to 
> know how to keep track of groups of shapes. These could either be from an 
> imported file or created on the fly. For example, I could go into the 
> shapes list, select four lines, one rectangle, and one circle and decide 
> to call that group "stick figure". This would only last for the duration 
> of the program, as I do not think that SVG supports anything like this, 
> but while the program is running you could create an army of stick 
> figures.
>
> Amanda
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Michael Whapples" <mwhapples at aim.com>
> To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics" 
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 3:57 PM
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Some suggestions for Richard Baldwin's 
> SVGdrawingtool
>
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I possibly could help out with writing some parts of code as I do know 
>> how to programme Java applications. However I would say I have no clue 
>> how much time I could commit to it as I tend to have a number of other 
>> things on the go.
>>
>> I have a question/suggestion. How does the SVG import feature work (the 
>> import for drawings done in SVG draw)? The way the instructions I have 
>> read, seem to suggest one could build up a library of shapes/objects they 
>> wish to use and then you could import that. As an example, arrow heads 
>> could be quite useful for many types of diagram, may be also stick 
>> figures, etc, so I could have a library of these elements in separate SVG 
>> files. My question is, when I import these, how convenient is it to 
>> scale/position these "elements" I import? Would it be possible for these 
>> to become single elements of the diagram? May be that latter one is 
>> stretching what SVG could do, but hopefully you see why it would be 
>> useful (IE. if I need to reposition it again then I could just find 
>> "stick figure" from the list of elements and then adjust like other 
>> elements like lines or circles, rather than having to select all the 
>> individual parts which make up that stick figure).
>>
>> Michael Whapples
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Richard Baldwin" <baldwin at dickbaldwin.com>
>> To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics" 
>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 6:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Some suggestions for Richard Baldwin's SVG 
>> drawingtool
>>
>>
>>> Thanks for the feedback. I will insert my responses in your test below.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:04 AM, Michael Whapples <mwhapples at aim.com> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>> I have just tried using Richard Baldwin's SVG drawing tool. This is 
>>>> quite
>>>> useful. I have a few comments/suggestions to make.
>>>>
>>>> The first is whether it would be possible to also have an option for 
>>>> metric
>>>> units? I was having to create a diagram from some measurements I had in
>>>> metric and it would have been so much easier if I could have just 
>>>> entered
>>>> values in metric.
>>>>
>>>
>>> rgb] This is definitely possible, so I will put it on my todo list.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Also, it seems simple enough to use, however particularly on the save, 
>>>> the
>>>> action based approach was slightly unusual and caught me out. I am very 
>>>> much
>>>> used to most software having save only prompt for file name when you 
>>>> first
>>>> save and should you want to save under a different file name then you 
>>>> use
>>>> "save as". I guess this is really a familiarity issue, once I 
>>>> remembered
>>>> this tool needed me to confirm the save it worked fine.
>>>>
>>>
>>> rgb] Good point. I will put this on the list also and consider a more
>>> standard approach.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> May be also related to the action based approach, sometimes things 
>>>> seemed
>>>> to require more action from me than felt needed. I guess one point 
>>>> might be
>>>> when I select set attributes, why cannot the list of elements be 
>>>> created
>>>> then, why do I need to press another button?
>>>>
>>>
>>> rgb] This is also a good point and I will put it on my todo list to
>>> consider. The same thing occurs on most of the actions on the Mod menu 
>>> and
>>> the Advanced menu. Do you have any other suggestions as to where the 
>>> number
>>> of steps required is excessive for a blind user?
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I quite like the way of marking elements when editing them, however how
>>>> might one deselect something if they made a mistake and how can one 
>>>> tell if
>>>> an item is selected or not? May be the answer is in the instructions 
>>>> but you
>>>> know what it can be like when you have to read documentation... I 
>>>> possibly
>>>> say really well designed software shouldn't need people to read
>>>> documentation as it should be obvious what to do (either because the
>>>> software is so clear or it just follows a convention on how to get the
>>>> specific help you need).
>>>>
>>>
>>> rgb] Maybe someday I will have context-sensitive help, but that day will
>>> probably be a long way off, or else I will have to hire programming
>>> assistance and charge dollars for the program instead of giving it away 
>>> for
>>> free. If you have other suggestions for a better design, I would like to
>>> hear them.
>>>
>>> rgb] Your first question in the above paragraph regarding
>>> selecting/deselecting is a good one. I will put it on my list to 
>>> consider.
>>> As it stands now, when you mark an object, you get a message box asking 
>>> you
>>> to confirm the selection, so you have an opportunity to cancel the 
>>> selection
>>> at that point. The corrective procedure if you select the wrong object 
>>> and
>>> confirm that selection is to simply tab past the action button at the 
>>> bottom
>>> and start that action over again.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have to say I did feel a little uncertain on editing some of the 
>>>> diagram,
>>>> may be its to do with the options available for editing and may be some 
>>>> of
>>>> its to do with not quite knowing what is there (IE. no way to view the
>>>> current diagram). I guess that latter point, users of the voice would 
>>>> say
>>>> that is what the voice is for.
>>>>
>>>
>>> rgb] Right now, the best way to view the current drawing is to save it 
>>> and
>>> open the SVG file in Firefox, Chrome, or IE9 (IE8 and lower won't work). 
>>> It
>>> is reasonably easy to act, save, refresh Firefox, and view.
>>>
>>> rgb] I will soon publish a version that has a real-time visual output 
>>> for
>>> sighted users, vOICe uses, and users with some but low vision. If you 
>>> have
>>> suggestions as to how to make it possible for blind users to view the
>>> drawing other than to use the Review action in the Mod menu, to use
>>> something like vOICe, or to emboss the current drawing, I would like to 
>>> hear
>>> about them.
>>>
>>> Again,
>>> Thanks for the feedback. I will put your suggestions on my todo list for
>>> incorporation into future versions.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Michael Whapples
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>>> Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
>>> http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>>>
>>> Professor of Computer Information Technology
>>> Austin Community College
>>> (512) 223-4758
>>> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>>> http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
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>>
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>
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