[Blindmath] SVG Draw

Fri Oct 7 16:46:53 UTC 2011

John,

I've read some about IVEO on the Viewplus website and it is still unclear to 
me why a blind person would want IVEO Creator verses IVEO Viewer. I can see 
the benefit of IVEO Creator Pro if one wants to convert graphics or PDF 
files into SVG files or scan them using OCR. I can also appreciate the 
usefulness of a touchpad. However, the purpose of the other listed features 
of Creator and Creator Pro are not obvious to me, and since a blind person 
cannot create drawings with standard software it would only make sense to 
give us access through SVGDraw.

Amanda
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Gardner" <john.gardner at orst.edu>
To: "'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'" 
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2011 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] SVG Draw

> Michael, shame on you.  I thought you understood IVEO, but you could also
> read more carefully.  The issue is licensing.  IVEO Viewer provides audio
> access for ViewPlus-licensed files - ie those made with Creator, Creator
> Pro, or other aps with ViewPlus licenses.n  I am offering to make SVG Draw
> such a ViewPlus-licensed application to be given free to blind users.
> What's the problem?
>
> Presently IVEO applications all utilize standard SVG 1.0.  The new IVEO 3
> version will incorporate new features that are already on the docket for
> inclusion in SVG 2.0.  For the time being of course, IVEO 3 can indeed
> include features beyond SVG 1.0.
>
> Finally I believe that the IVEO ip protection scheme is much more
> user-friendly than locking to hardware.  Locking to hardware is more like
> extortion than ip protection.  In fact IVEO supports any external pointing
> devices that emulate the mouse.  Admittedly the most convenient device is
> the IVEO touchpad, which now uses its own interface that avoids some of 
> the
> inconveniences of mouse emulation.  You can also print to regular printers
> to make swell paper tactiles instead of using a ViewPlus embosser.
>
> John
>
>
> John
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
> On
> Behalf Of Michael Whapples
> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2011 6:40 AM
> To: john.gardner at orst.edu; Blind Math list for those interested in
> mathematics
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] SVG Draw
>
> Hello John,
> Your first comment/question is something which gets me a bit. So only IVEO
> creator or creator pro can produce files with speakable titles and
> descriptions? I take it then that this is not using a standard part of 
> SVG?
> I know why that decision may have been made, however I possibly view it as 
> a
> limitation of the IVEO system rather than an enhancement (if SVG elements
> can normally have a text title and description). A limitation as IVEO
> doesn't work with standard SVG.
> As I said I guess I know the reasons, you need something to make people 
> buy
> IVEO stuff. Might people be prepared to pay an affordable amount for a 
> IVEO
> viewer which works with standard SVG drawings? Should the IVEO creator 
> tools
> offer a more compelling reason to buy them (EG. live up to their name and 
> be
> the compelling tool for creating a drawing)? There is the other way to get
> people to buy and that is through hardware lock in (IE. the software is so
> tightly integrated with the hardware they have to buy your hardware for 
> the
> tool to be useful).
>
> Michael whapples
> On 6 Oct 2011, at 22:57, John Gardner wrote:
>
>> Hello all, I have several questions and comments on SVG Draw.  One
> question
>> for list members is whether it would be useful to have full IVEO access 
>> to
>> SVG files made with SVG Draw.  Presently, because of licensing
> requirements,
>> you must have IVEO Creator or IVEO Creator Pro to get audio access to the
>> SVG title and description and the object titles and descriptions entered
>> when creating an SVG drawing with SVG Draw.  If many of you would like to
>> have it, I will request that the IVEO authoring license be added to SVG
> Draw
>> in a special version available only to blind users.  This will make these
>> files IVEO-accessible in the free IVEO Viewer.  Don't know how the
>> distribution would work, but tell me whether it would be useful enough to
>> you for us to spend the effort to work out details.
>>
>> Now a comment on color.  There is an undocumented feature in all ViewPlus
>> printer drivers that permit one to substitute a tactile pattern of your
>> design for a color.  I intend to write an article for Access2Science
>> documenting use of this feature - which you can then use with SVG 
>> drawings
>> created with SVG Draw.
>>
>> Finally I have a number of suggestions for Dick Baldwin on improvements 
>> to
>> SVG Draw, primarily usability.  Let me be very clear that I think this is
> a
>> terrific application, already better than anything ever made for creating
>> graphics by blind people.  But you asked for suggestions!
>> * It is too wordy in my opinion.  You have a wonderful help file, and it
>> really isn't necessary to be told every time that the coordinates are
> inches
>> multiplied by 100.  And there are 'ok' boxes that aren't really needed.
>> When one clicks to get some action that can't be damaging, one doesn't
> need
>> to confirm that this is what one really wants.  It's good to have this 
>> for
>> things like "do you really want to exit without saving this file?" etc.
>> Interesting, one place that such a question is normally asked is when one
> is
>> saving over an existing file, and SVG Draw doesn't seem to do that.  But
>> maybe I just missed it.
>> *It would be really good if you could use the standard Windows (or Java
> SWT)
>> file open and save dialogues.  Anybody sophisticated enough to use SVG
> Draw
>> uses these routinely, and it is disconcerting not to have them.
>> *Several read-only dialog boxes are less accessible then they could be. 
>> I
>> just reviewed the objects in a drawing.  First of all there seems to be 
>> an
>> id that I didn't put on, and it doesn't help me to identify the object, 
>> so
> I
>> suggest that it be suppressed, so that only the object type (ie line,
>> polyline) is shown along with coordinates.  Secondly this dialog is 
>> fairly
>> long, and it cannot be reviewed easily.  One can use the mouse, or review
>> mode in NVDA, but this is tedious.  It is possible to permit cursor
> movement
>> in read-only dialog boxes, at least in standard windows dialogs, because
>> there are many such.  Can you do this for these logn dialogs?  If so,
> screen
>> readers will then be able to review the information letter by letter or
> word
>> by word, a great help for me anyhow.
>>
>> Thanks all.  This is fun!
>>
>> John Gardner
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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