[Blindmath] Extracting bitmap images from pdf files

Amanda Lacy lacy925 at gmail.com
Fri Jan 27 18:34:01 UTC 2012 

Thanks Tami.

Amanda
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tami Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics" 
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 12:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Extracting bitmap images from pdf files


> Amanda,
>
> I agree totally about IVEO. That way, you have access to tools to do your 
> homework and concentrate on your studies. If your school gets federal 
> funding, then my understanding is that it must provide accessible 
> materials.
>
> It's just that for some reason, a lot of students seem to spend a lot of 
> time on getting the school to meet its requirements. So where do you all 
> then find time to meet your requirements?
>
> Well, I know the NFB is suing where it can, and that's a lot of lawsuits 
> these days... Or is that just my impression because I'm more aware? 
> /smile/
>
> Hang in there, girl!
>
> Tami
>
> On 01/27/2012 10:03 AM, Amanda Lacy wrote:
>> I'd think it would be better to put that amount of money toward an IVEO
>> system.
>>
>> What about the publisher? Do you think McGraw Hill has copies of the
>> images separate from the text?
>>
>> Amanda
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Baldwin"
>> <baldwin at dickbaldwin.com>
>> To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics"
>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 11:48 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Extracting bitmap images from pdf files
>>
>>
>>> Amanda and others,
>>>
>>> I have contacted Adobe technical support. There solution to the
>>> problem is
>>> to purchase Acrobat Pro for $445.00. The tech support rep told me that
>>> their program will extract the pictures intact as separate bitmap files.
>>>
>>> Dick Baldwin
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 10:44 AM, Michael Whapples
>>> <mwhapples at aim.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>> From what you are describing, my feeling is that the diagrams/images in
>>>> the PDF in question are created from a number of drawing elements 
>>>> rather
>>>> than a single image object. I'm not an expert on PDF, but I think you
>>>> could
>>>> think of it like the difference of a bitmap being a single element (I
>>>> think
>>>> PDF has a way to specify the start of a stream object like a bitmap)
>>>> and an
>>>> SVG being formed from lots of elements like lines and shapes (I think 
>>>> in
>>>> PDF the lines and such like can be created with basic PDF drawing
>>>> facilities so are not in a separate object). When the image is formed
>>>> from
>>>> lots of elements then it may be hard for the software to know what
>>>> makes up
>>>> a given diagram in the book/document, it just lays it out as
>>>> specified and
>>>> you work out what's related. I think one way to tell whether you have
>>>> this
>>>> sort of image is to see if NVDA will read some of the text labels of 
>>>> the
>>>> image, if it does then its not a pure bitmap (you probably could use 
>>>> the
>>>> read out lout function of adobe reader as well). Therefore I imagine
>>>> that
>>>> without clever recognition algorithms you are unlikely to get something
>>>> which will extract it as you want.
>>>>
>>>> There is one option I am aware of for a blind person to do this
>>>> independently, IVEO like John suggested, however IVEO isn't a cheap
>>>> option
>>>> and depending on how much is to be done would determine whether its
>>>> worth
>>>> the money if providing accessible diagrams from PDF was its only use.
>>>> IVEO
>>>> does not require a tiger printer, swell paper would work, other
>>>> embossers
>>>> may (the outputting from IVEO is the question as I think it may only
>>>> output
>>>> to devices appearing as standard printers). Interesting, the IVEO route
>>>> again is requiring a human to make the decision on what forms the
>>>> diagram.
>>>>
>>>> Michael Whapples
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Richard Baldwin
>>>> Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 3:28 PM
>>>> To: Jamal Mazrui
>>>> Cc: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Extracting bitmap images from pdf files
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Jamal,
>>>>
>>>> It is a great program, easy to use, and probably totally accessible. I
>>>> particularly like the fact that the program doesn't require a windows
>>>> installation. The output data is well organized and including the page
>>>> numbers in the bmp file names is a great help in analyzing them.
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately, the output produced by the program suffers from the same
>>>> issues that I have encountered with all of the other image extractor
>>>> programs that I have tried. A few of the images come out intact. Most 
>>>> of
>>>> the images don't come out intact.
>>>>
>>>> For example, page three of one of the pdf files that I tested has a
>>>> single
>>>> image of a battery. It is the same image that I enhanced and posted
>>>> in an
>>>> earlier post. Your program produced 54 bmp files for that page. A few 
>>>> of
>>>> them were icons such as arrows exclamation marks, etc. The remaining 
>>>> bmp
>>>> files appear to be a very small pieces of the image of the battery.
>>>> By the
>>>> way, I got the earlier image of the battery by taking a screen shot
>>>> of the
>>>> page and using an image editing program to crop out the battery
>>>> image. None
>>>> of the image extraction programs that I have tested extract the image
>>>> intact.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know anything at all about the internal structure of pdf
>>>> files, and
>>>> this behavior of breaking an image into many small pieces may depend
>>>> on how
>>>> the file is constructed in the first place. In any event, my immediate
>>>> problem has to do with a specific set of pdf files that are the 
>>>> chapters
>>>> from a specific physics book, so this program doesn't solve my problem.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for offering the program.
>>>> Dick Baldwin
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 5:18 AM, Jamal Mazrui <empower at smart.net> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> In an attempt to facilitate a free, non-web dependent solution, I have
>>>>> written a Windows console-mode utility called PDF2Images, built with
>>>>> PowerBASIC and a PDF library. The distribution archive, including
>>>>> documentation and source code, is available at
>>>>>
>>>>> http://empowermentzone.com/****pdf2images.zip<http://empowermentzone.com/**pdf2images.zip>
>>>>>
>>>>> <http://**empowermentzone.com/**pdf2images.zip<http://empowermentzone.com/pdf2images.zip>
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I am interested in any feedback on how well it works compared to other
>>>>> approaches.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jamal
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>>>> Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
>>>> http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>>>>
>>>> Professor of Computer Information Technology
>>>> Austin Community College
>>>> (512) 223-4758
>>>> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>>>> http://www.austincc.edu/**baldwin/ <http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>>> Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
>>> http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>>>
>>> Professor of Computer Information Technology
>>> Austin Community College
>>> (512) 223-4758
>>> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>>> http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
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>>
>>
>>
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>
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