[Blindmath] Facial recognition -- food for thought

Thu Mar 29 13:40:55 UTC 2012

It would, but you assume that I don't have that information or can't get it.
It's not like I go into a conference room and am totally clueless. Same info, different way of obtaining what I need.

I'm not saying your idea isn't useful.  It's just that I've got ways to get the data you're offering me. My methods work. If they didn't, I'd have found a solution that did.  How does your idea enhance my experience?

-----Original Message-----
From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Richard Baldwin
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 9:06 PM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Facial recognition -- food for thought

Forget about faces for the moment and think about people and their
identities.

Facial recognition systems don't display faces.

When you go into a conference room for a meeting, would it be useful to
know how many people are sitting around the conference table?

If so, would it be useful to know which of those people you already know
and which you don't know?

Would it be useful to know when new people join the meeting, where they
sit, and possibly their identities?

Would it be useful for you to to have that information before the meeting
is called to order and people begin to take turns speaking?

I know that when I go into a meeting, one of the first things that I do is
to mentally note who is there, where they are sitting, who appears to be
sitting together in a group, who might support my position on a
controversial discussion topic on the agenda, who might oppose me during
that discussion, who might be neutral, and who are the unknowns.

If such information would be useful to you, then facial recognition might
be useful but not because you want to see a face. It might be useful
because that is one way that a computer can be used to identify people
without their fingerprints or DNA.

Facial recognition systems don't display faces. Facial recognition systems
attempt to use facial features to identify people.

Dick Baldwin

On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 7:25 PM, Amanda Lacy <lacy925 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Sorry everyone. That last message was meant as a reply to another poster
> on another list regarding an article on NVDA.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Baldwin" <
> baldwin at dickbaldwin.com>
> To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics" <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 4:54 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Facial recognition -- food for thought
>
>
>  Steve,
>>
>> You wrote "My point here is not to scold as we have been sort of scolded,"
>>
>> My earlier post was not intended to scold you or anyone else in the blind
>> community.
>>
>> I pointed out when I made the (apparently offending) statement that it
>> might not make sense to some readers due to those readers not having seen
>> all of the previous posts due to distribution issues with earlier posts.
>>
>> My post was in response to a post made earlier by a SIGHTED individual, I
>> repeat a SIGHTED individual, who in effect said that we shouldn't expend
>> efforts doing things that the big companies might do better if we are
>> patient and willing to wait long enough.
>>
>> My point is that if I had the need, (and perhaps there is no need), I
>> wouldn't be patient and wait for something that the big companies might do
>> for me at some time in the future. Instead, if possible, I would do it for
>> myself.
>>
>> Dick Baldwin
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 4:36 PM, Richard Baldwin <baldwin at dickbaldwin.com
>> >**wrote:
>>
>>  I don't understand the question.
>>> Dick Baldwin
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 2:00 PM, Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC) <
>>> REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Dick,
>>>> You percieve this as a problem. Why?
>>>> I don't. The technology is interesting, but it doesn't mean not seeing
>>>> someone's face is a problem.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces@**
>>>> nfbnet.org <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org>]
>>>> On Behalf Of Richard Baldwin
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 9:04 AM
>>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics;
>>>> seeingwithsound at freelists.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Facial recognition -- food for thought
>>>>
>>>> Apologies to those who haven't seen all of the response postings due to
>>>> cross listing of the original post and to whom this post probably won't
>>>> make sense.
>>>>
>>>> If I were blind and could purchase all of the necessary hardware,
>>>> including
>>>> gigabytes of USB storage for a few hundred dollars, I wouldn't be
>>>> sitting
>>>> around waiting for Microsoft, Google, Apple, or some other large company
>>>> to
>>>> solve my problems. I would be working to solve those problems myself.
>>>>
>>>> If Bill Gates and Michael Dell had that attitude, there wouldn't be a
>>>> Microsoft. IBM would "own" the computer market on a worldwide basis.
>>>>
>>>> Dick Baldwin
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 7:03 AM, Carolyn MacLeod <
>>>> Carolyn_MacLeod at ca.ibm.com
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Not sure if this is useful, and you probably already know, but
>>>> Microsoft's
>>>> > Windows Live Photo Gallery and Picasa and iPhoto (and some others) >
>>>> have
>>>> a
>>>> > feature called face-tagging.
>>>> > They work surprisingly well, although they need someone to identify
>>>> photos
>>>> > and confirm guesses, and they do make some ridiculous mistakes
>>>> sometimes.
>>>> > If you have Windows 7 or Vista, you may already have Windows Live >
>>>> Photo
>>>> > Gallery installed - to find out, open the Start menu and type "Windows
>>>> > Live Photo Gallery" in the Search field, then Enter.
>>>> > If not, here's a link with a download button:
>>>> >
>>>> http://windows.microsoft.com/**en-US/windows7/products/**
>>>> features/photo-gallery<http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/products/features/photo-gallery>
>>>> > Carolyn
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > From:
>>>> > Richard Baldwin <baldwin at dickbaldwin.com>
>>>> > To:
>>>> > BlindMath Mailing List <blindmath at nfbnet.org>,
>>>> > seeingwithsound at freelists.org
>>>> > Date:
>>>> > 03/27/2012 11:05 PM
>>>> > Subject:
>>>> > [Blindmath] Facial recognition -- food for thought
>>>> > Sent by:
>>>> > blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Most of the math courses that I completed in public school and college
>>>> > mainly involved completely deterministic concepts such as finding
>>>> unknown
>>>> > in sets of algebraic equations, proving theorems in geometry, proving
>>>> > identities in trigonometry, solving triangle problems using
>>>> trigonometry,
>>>> > differentiating functions, integrating functions, playing around with
>>>> > solids of revolution, etc. They were all good exercises for the brain
>>>> but
>>>> > were not very close to real-world problems.
>>>> >
>>>> > When I made it into engineering college, the problems and their
>>>> solutions
>>>> > were closer to the real world but only barely so.
>>>> >
>>>> > When I completed my first engineering degree and went to work in the
>>>> real
>>>> > world, I learned very quickly that problems in the real world are far
>>>> from
>>>> > deterministics. In other words, there are very few problems in the >
>>>> real
>>>> > world that have deterministic solutions. Problems in the real world
>>>> > usually
>>>> > involve a mix of mathematics, statistics, physics, engineering, >
>>>> computer
>>>> > science, and other technologies, and there is rarely a single correct
>>>> > solution for any problem.
>>>> >
>>>> > Furthermore, the solution to most problems requires the design and
>>>> > implementation of complex mathematical algorithms, and those >
>>>> algorithms
>>>> > are
>>>> > most commonly implemented using a computer of some sort. (In my >
>>>> opinion,
>>>> > every student that receives a technical degree should be required to
>>>> learn
>>>> > to program well in at least one programming language.)
>>>> >
>>>> > By now you must be wondering where this is all heading.
>>>> >
>>>> > I saw on TV today that shopping malls and large department stores are
>>>> > installing electronic billboards that use facial recognition to >
>>>> display
>>>> > advertisements that are likely to be of interest to those persons who
>>>> can
>>>> > see the billboard.
>>>> >
>>>> > I have no idea what the facial recognition algorithm is for >
>>>> categorizing
>>>> > the viewers in a way that allows for a selection of appropriate
>>>> > advertisements. However, this tells me that the algorithm doesn't
>>>> require
>>>> > a
>>>> > supercomputer to implement. The algorithms must be implemented using
>>>> > modestly priced computer hardware. Otherwise, they would be too
>>>> expensive
>>>> > to include in such billboards.
>>>> >
>>>> > This makes me wonder if it might be possible to use a small portable
>>>> > computer to develop a system that will do facial recognition on people
>>>> > whose faces appear in the field of view of a miniature video camera
>>>> > embedded in eyeglass frames and to speak information about those >
>>>> people
>>>> to
>>>> > the wearer of the glasses.
>>>> >
>>>> > Science fiction? Maybe so and maybe not.
>>>> >
>>>> > Dr. Peter Meijer has demonstrated that it is possible to couple a >
>>>> video
>>>> > camera built into eyeglass frames with a small portable computer and
>>>> > an
>>>> > appropriate software program (The vOICe) and to create soundscapes >
>>>> that
>>>> > some blind users find very beneficial (see
>>>> http://www.seeingwithsound.**com/ <http://www.seeingwithsound.com/>
>>>> > )
>>>> > as they move through the world.
>>>> >
>>>> > Not being blind, I can't imagine what it would be like to interact >
>>>> with
>>>> > other people that you can't see. However, it seems to me that it would
>>>> be
>>>> > beneficial for a blind person to know something about another persons
>>>> > before a conversation begins. Depending on capability, this could >
>>>> range
>>>> > all
>>>> > the way from rudimentary information such as the probable sex and >
>>>> likely
>>>> > age of the person, to detailed information such as the identification
>>>> > of
>>>> > prior acquaintances by name.
>>>> >
>>>> > Perhaps it is time for a group of blind mathematicians, physicists,
>>>> > engineers, statisticians, and computer scientists to band together to
>>>> > produce such a system and to publish it as an open source
>>>> > hardware/software
>>>> > system.
>>>> >
>>>> > Food for thought,
>>>> > Dick Baldwin
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> > Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>>>> > Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
>>>> > http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>>>> >
>>>> > Professor of Computer Information Technology
>>>> > Austin Community College
>>>> > (512) 223-4758
>>>> > mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>>>> > http://www.austincc.edu/**baldwin/ <http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/>
>>>> > ______________________________**_________________
>>>> > Blindmath mailing list
>>>> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
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>>>> > Blindmath:
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>>>> carolyn_macleod%40ca.ibm.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/carolyn_macleod%40ca.ibm.com>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > ______________________________**_________________
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>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>>>> Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
>>>> http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>>>>
>>>> Professor of Computer Information Technology
>>>> Austin Community College
>>>> (512) 223-4758
>>>> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>>>> http://www.austincc.edu/**baldwin/ <http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/>
>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>> Blindmath mailing list
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>>> Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
>>> http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>>>
>>> Professor of Computer Information Technology
>>> Austin Community College
>>> (512) 223-4758
>>> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>>> http://www.austincc.edu/**baldwin/ <http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>> Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
>> http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>>
>> Professor of Computer Information Technology
>> Austin Community College
>> (512) 223-4758
>> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>> http://www.austincc.edu/**baldwin/ <http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/>
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>> lacy925%40gmail.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/lacy925%40gmail.com>
>>
>
>
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>

--
Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
http://www.DickBaldwin.com

Professor of Computer Information Technology
Austin Community College
(512) 223-4758
mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
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CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message and any attachments or files transmitted with it (collectively, the "Message") are intended only for the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary and/or prohibited from disclosure by law or contract. If you are not the intended recipient: (a) please do not read, copy or retransmit the Message; (b) permanently delete and/or destroy all electronic and hard copies of the Message; (c) notify us by return email; and (d) you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of the Message is strictly prohibited.