[Blindmath] Facial recognition -- food for thought

Amanda Lacy lacy925 at gmail.com
Thu Mar 29 01:10:18 UTC 2012 

I'm in situations like this all the time and am often clueless, or caught by 
surprise.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard Baldwin" <baldwin at dickbaldwin.com>
To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics" 
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Facial recognition -- food for thought


> Forget about faces for the moment and think about people and their
> identities.
>
> Facial recognition systems don't display faces.
>
> When you go into a conference room for a meeting, would it be useful to
> know how many people are sitting around the conference table?
>
> If so, would it be useful to know which of those people you already know
> and which you don't know?
>
> Would it be useful to know when new people join the meeting, where they
> sit, and possibly their identities?
>
> Would it be useful for you to to have that information before the meeting
> is called to order and people begin to take turns speaking?
>
> I know that when I go into a meeting, one of the first things that I do is
> to mentally note who is there, where they are sitting, who appears to be
> sitting together in a group, who might support my position on a
> controversial discussion topic on the agenda, who might oppose me during
> that discussion, who might be neutral, and who are the unknowns.
>
> If such information would be useful to you, then facial recognition might
> be useful but not because you want to see a face. It might be useful
> because that is one way that a computer can be used to identify people
> without their fingerprints or DNA.
>
> Facial recognition systems don't display faces. Facial recognition systems
> attempt to use facial features to identify people.
>
> Dick Baldwin
>
> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 7:25 PM, Amanda Lacy <lacy925 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Sorry everyone. That last message was meant as a reply to another poster
>> on another list regarding an article on NVDA.
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Baldwin" <
>> baldwin at dickbaldwin.com>
>> To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics" <
>> blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 4:54 PM
>>
>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Facial recognition -- food for thought
>>
>>
>>  Steve,
>>>
>>> You wrote "My point here is not to scold as we have been sort of 
>>> scolded,"
>>>
>>> My earlier post was not intended to scold you or anyone else in the 
>>> blind
>>> community.
>>>
>>> I pointed out when I made the (apparently offending) statement that it
>>> might not make sense to some readers due to those readers not having 
>>> seen
>>> all of the previous posts due to distribution issues with earlier posts.
>>>
>>> My post was in response to a post made earlier by a SIGHTED individual, 
>>> I
>>> repeat a SIGHTED individual, who in effect said that we shouldn't expend
>>> efforts doing things that the big companies might do better if we are
>>> patient and willing to wait long enough.
>>>
>>> My point is that if I had the need, (and perhaps there is no need), I
>>> wouldn't be patient and wait for something that the big companies might 
>>> do
>>> for me at some time in the future. Instead, if possible, I would do it 
>>> for
>>> myself.
>>>
>>> Dick Baldwin
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 4:36 PM, Richard Baldwin 
>>> <baldwin at dickbaldwin.com
>>> >**wrote:
>>>
>>>  I don't understand the question.
>>>> Dick Baldwin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 2:00 PM, Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC) <
>>>> REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Dick,
>>>>> You percieve this as a problem. Why?
>>>>> I don't. The technology is interesting, but it doesn't mean not seeing
>>>>> someone's face is a problem.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces@**
>>>>> nfbnet.org <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org>]
>>>>> On Behalf Of Richard Baldwin
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 9:04 AM
>>>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics;
>>>>> seeingwithsound at freelists.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Facial recognition -- food for thought
>>>>>
>>>>> Apologies to those who haven't seen all of the response postings due 
>>>>> to
>>>>> cross listing of the original post and to whom this post probably 
>>>>> won't
>>>>> make sense.
>>>>>
>>>>> If I were blind and could purchase all of the necessary hardware,
>>>>> including
>>>>> gigabytes of USB storage for a few hundred dollars, I wouldn't be
>>>>> sitting
>>>>> around waiting for Microsoft, Google, Apple, or some other large 
>>>>> company
>>>>> to
>>>>> solve my problems. I would be working to solve those problems myself.
>>>>>
>>>>> If Bill Gates and Michael Dell had that attitude, there wouldn't be a
>>>>> Microsoft. IBM would "own" the computer market on a worldwide basis.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dick Baldwin
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 7:03 AM, Carolyn MacLeod <
>>>>> Carolyn_MacLeod at ca.ibm.com
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> > Not sure if this is useful, and you probably already know, but
>>>>> Microsoft's
>>>>> > Windows Live Photo Gallery and Picasa and iPhoto (and some others) >
>>>>> have
>>>>> a
>>>>> > feature called face-tagging.
>>>>> > They work surprisingly well, although they need someone to identify
>>>>> photos
>>>>> > and confirm guesses, and they do make some ridiculous mistakes
>>>>> sometimes.
>>>>> > If you have Windows 7 or Vista, you may already have Windows Live >
>>>>> Photo
>>>>> > Gallery installed - to find out, open the Start menu and type 
>>>>> > "Windows
>>>>> > Live Photo Gallery" in the Search field, then Enter.
>>>>> > If not, here's a link with a download button:
>>>>> >
>>>>> http://windows.microsoft.com/**en-US/windows7/products/**
>>>>> features/photo-gallery<http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/products/features/photo-gallery>
>>>>> > Carolyn
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > From:
>>>>> > Richard Baldwin <baldwin at dickbaldwin.com>
>>>>> > To:
>>>>> > BlindMath Mailing List <blindmath at nfbnet.org>,
>>>>> > seeingwithsound at freelists.org
>>>>> > Date:
>>>>> > 03/27/2012 11:05 PM
>>>>> > Subject:
>>>>> > [Blindmath] Facial recognition -- food for thought
>>>>> > Sent by:
>>>>> > blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Most of the math courses that I completed in public school and 
>>>>> > college
>>>>> > mainly involved completely deterministic concepts such as finding
>>>>> unknown
>>>>> > in sets of algebraic equations, proving theorems in geometry, 
>>>>> > proving
>>>>> > identities in trigonometry, solving triangle problems using
>>>>> trigonometry,
>>>>> > differentiating functions, integrating functions, playing around 
>>>>> > with
>>>>> > solids of revolution, etc. They were all good exercises for the 
>>>>> > brain
>>>>> but
>>>>> > were not very close to real-world problems.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > When I made it into engineering college, the problems and their
>>>>> solutions
>>>>> > were closer to the real world but only barely so.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > When I completed my first engineering degree and went to work in the
>>>>> real
>>>>> > world, I learned very quickly that problems in the real world are 
>>>>> > far
>>>>> from
>>>>> > deterministics. In other words, there are very few problems in the >
>>>>> real
>>>>> > world that have deterministic solutions. Problems in the real world
>>>>> > usually
>>>>> > involve a mix of mathematics, statistics, physics, engineering, >
>>>>> computer
>>>>> > science, and other technologies, and there is rarely a single 
>>>>> > correct
>>>>> > solution for any problem.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Furthermore, the solution to most problems requires the design and
>>>>> > implementation of complex mathematical algorithms, and those >
>>>>> algorithms
>>>>> > are
>>>>> > most commonly implemented using a computer of some sort. (In my >
>>>>> opinion,
>>>>> > every student that receives a technical degree should be required to
>>>>> learn
>>>>> > to program well in at least one programming language.)
>>>>> >
>>>>> > By now you must be wondering where this is all heading.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I saw on TV today that shopping malls and large department stores 
>>>>> > are
>>>>> > installing electronic billboards that use facial recognition to >
>>>>> display
>>>>> > advertisements that are likely to be of interest to those persons 
>>>>> > who
>>>>> can
>>>>> > see the billboard.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I have no idea what the facial recognition algorithm is for >
>>>>> categorizing
>>>>> > the viewers in a way that allows for a selection of appropriate
>>>>> > advertisements. However, this tells me that the algorithm doesn't
>>>>> require
>>>>> > a
>>>>> > supercomputer to implement. The algorithms must be implemented using
>>>>> > modestly priced computer hardware. Otherwise, they would be too
>>>>> expensive
>>>>> > to include in such billboards.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > This makes me wonder if it might be possible to use a small portable
>>>>> > computer to develop a system that will do facial recognition on 
>>>>> > people
>>>>> > whose faces appear in the field of view of a miniature video camera
>>>>> > embedded in eyeglass frames and to speak information about those >
>>>>> people
>>>>> to
>>>>> > the wearer of the glasses.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Science fiction? Maybe so and maybe not.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Dr. Peter Meijer has demonstrated that it is possible to couple a >
>>>>> video
>>>>> > camera built into eyeglass frames with a small portable computer and
>>>>> > an
>>>>> > appropriate software program (The vOICe) and to create soundscapes >
>>>>> that
>>>>> > some blind users find very beneficial (see
>>>>> http://www.seeingwithsound.**com/ <http://www.seeingwithsound.com/>
>>>>> > )
>>>>> > as they move through the world.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Not being blind, I can't imagine what it would be like to interact >
>>>>> with
>>>>> > other people that you can't see. However, it seems to me that it 
>>>>> > would
>>>>> be
>>>>> > beneficial for a blind person to know something about another 
>>>>> > persons
>>>>> > before a conversation begins. Depending on capability, this could >
>>>>> range
>>>>> > all
>>>>> > the way from rudimentary information such as the probable sex and >
>>>>> likely
>>>>> > age of the person, to detailed information such as the 
>>>>> > identification
>>>>> > of
>>>>> > prior acquaintances by name.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Perhaps it is time for a group of blind mathematicians, physicists,
>>>>> > engineers, statisticians, and computer scientists to band together 
>>>>> > to
>>>>> > produce such a system and to publish it as an open source
>>>>> > hardware/software
>>>>> > system.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Food for thought,
>>>>> > Dick Baldwin
>>>>> >
>>>>> > --
>>>>> > Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>>>>> > Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
>>>>> > http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Professor of Computer Information Technology
>>>>> > Austin Community College
>>>>> > (512) 223-4758
>>>>> > mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>>>>> > http://www.austincc.edu/**baldwin/ 
>>>>> > <http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/>
>>>>> > ______________________________**_________________
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>>>>> carolyn_macleod%40ca.ibm.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/carolyn_macleod%40ca.ibm.com>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > ______________________________**_________________
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>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>>>>> Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
>>>>> http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>>>>>
>>>>> Professor of Computer Information Technology
>>>>> Austin Community College
>>>>> (512) 223-4758
>>>>> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>>>>> http://www.austincc.edu/**baldwin/ <http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/>
>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
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>>>>> rebecca.pickrell%40tasc.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/rebecca.pickrell%40tasc.com>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>>>> Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
>>>> http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>>>>
>>>> Professor of Computer Information Technology
>>>> Austin Community College
>>>> (512) 223-4758
>>>> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>>>> http://www.austincc.edu/**baldwin/ <http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>>> Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
>>> http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>>>
>>> Professor of Computer Information Technology
>>> Austin Community College
>>> (512) 223-4758
>>> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>>> http://www.austincc.edu/**baldwin/ <http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/>
>>> ______________________________**_________________
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>>> lacy925%40gmail.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/lacy925%40gmail.com>
>>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
> Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
> http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>
> Professor of Computer Information Technology
> Austin Community College
> (512) 223-4758
> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
> http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/
> _______________________________________________
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