[Blindmath] suggestions for accessible 3d graphing paper giids

sabra1023 sabra1023 at gmail.com
Mon Dec 2 03:44:19 UTC 2013 

You're just talking to one person, would you mind making sure just to reply to them rather than the whole list? Thank you.

> On Dec 1, 2013, at 12:40 AM, "I. C. Bray" <i.c.bray at win.net> wrote:
> 
> And just when you thought all the sighted people lived richer lives than the 
> blind...
> Facinating... utterly Facinating!!!!
> We should have a total blind-educators retreat... I mean really... bring all 
> math geeks, and geometry nerds, and blind pursuers of The Newtonian Archaics 
> together for a week of pocket-protector melting math fun!!!
> 
> Wow.. Thanks for the honesty, and candor, guys...
> 
> Ian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Lewicki, Maureen" <mlewicki at bcsd.neric.org>
> To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics" 
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2013 9:30 AM
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] suggestions for accessible 3d graphing paper giids
> 
> 
> : By the way,Andy,I have been sighted all  my life and I can't draw in 
> perspective!
> :
> : In art class we were taught to draw what we  see. They would put out an 
> apple,an orange, and a bottle for us to copy. Good joke. My pictures looked 
> like circles laying on each other. As a kid when I had to illustrate my 
> compositions, I always would  draw what I could draw, a tree trunk. No 
> matter what the story was about! I never understood shading, either.
> :
> : Would you all forgive me if this sounds patronizing??!! The sighted, 
> including myself, will never fully understand the richness of the textures 
> that the blind experience, the sound of shadows, the boldness of smells, 
> good and bad, and the layers of sound(the way i think my students may have 
> learned to hear..I hear noises in the hallways, for example,but my students 
> want the door closed. I THINK it is because that is not just noise and 
> indiscriminate voices as it is for me. I THINK it is because they are 
> hearing the noises in layers, if you will...dimensions??perspective??
> :
> : Goodness forgive me! I forgot this is a math site, so I may have gone too 
> far off topic.
> :
> : Bottom line, when we have to understand pictures of solids, I show my 
> students the picture,and then hand them a solid. The AHHA I hear when I 
> place the solid in their hand is confirmation to me that the picture is 
> lame, but the solid is worth a 1000 words!
> :
> : Maureen Lewicki
> : Teacher of the Visually Impaired
> : Bethlehem Central Schools
> : 700 Delaware Avenue
> : Delmar, NY 12054
> : http://bcsd.k12.ny.us/
> :
> :
> : On Nov 22, 2013, at 10:39 PM, "Andy B." 
> <sonfire11 at gmail.com<mailto:sonfire11 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> :
> : My wife knows the basics, but that is all. I could see before, so have an
> : advantage. I used to be an artist (drawings) when I could see. The way to
> : get a 3d object to appear to be contained on a 2d object such as a page of
> : paper includes perspectives, but it also includes shadowing.
> : Shadowing/shading a 1d or 2d circle in specific locations to give it the
> : appearance of a 3d ball. It is a matter of interpreting the light source 
> and
> : what direction it is coming from.
> :
> :
> : -----Original Message-----
> : From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Amanda
> : Lacy
> : Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 7:42 PM
> : To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> : Subject: Re: [Blindmath] suggestions for accessible 3d graphing paper 
> giids
> :
> : I didn't even know the word "perspective" until I was in college. Early in
> : high school I remember being told that the reason I couldn't understand
> : those 3D pictures was because I wasn't trying hard enough. So I tried to
> : imagine how I could take a 3D object and make it into what was on the 
> paper
> : - by flattening it, of course. If I flattened a sphere, fore example, I
> : would get a circle, which is pretty much what they would show when they
> : meant sphere, but if I flattened a box I would never, ever get that 
> strange
> : thing that was on the page. Maybe I was supposed to unfold it like a
> : cardboard box? I really tried to solve this puzzle but couldn't. A sighted
> : tutor at the Texas School for the Blind recently told me that he could 
> teach
> : people who were blind from birth to interpret these representations, but I
> : have never once heard of someone like myself being able to comprehend 
> them.
> : I've heard of at least one person memorizing the basic shapes, but no real
> : understanding had taken place. Has anyone who has never seen been able to
> : touch a raised 3D picture and truly know what it's supposed to represent?
> : ----- Original Message -----
> : From: "John G. Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu<mailto:jheim at math.wisc.edu>>
> : To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics"
> : <blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org>>
> : Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 2:31 PM
> : Subject: Re: [Blindmath] suggestions for accessible 3d graphing paper 
> giids
> :
> :
> : People don't realize that drawing in perspective is an invention.
> : Before some time around 1300, when creating  paintings, artists didn't
> : regularly even do things like make objects smaller to make them look
> : like they were further away. These days, sighted people take this
> : concept of perspective for granted but for most of human history, it
> : didn't even exist.
> :
> : I work on the 5th floor in  the math building on the campus of the
> : University of Wisconsin. On the wall by the elevator, there is a
> : raised number 5. Under that is the number 5 in braille. That raised
> : number would mean nothing to someone who has never seen the number 5
> : in print. I am presuming it's there for people who lost their sight.
> : But the braille 5 and the printed 5 are equally valid representations of
> : the concept of 5.
> : Certainly the printed symbol 5 would be recognized by more people even
> : so, they are equally valid representations of the concept of the number 5.
> :
> : A graph is just like that. A graph is not the actual data, it's a
> : symbolic representation of the data. Any decent instructor would know
> : that.  Yet, all too often on this list, we hear of instructors saying
> : that math is too visual by nature for a blind student to grasp.  It's
> : ridiculous.
> :
> : There is absolutely nothing in mathematics that is innately visual.
> : In fact, the less you rely on the symbolic representations of the
> : concepts, the better off you are. It's impossible to communicate
> : mathematical concepts without symbols -- words, print, or braill --
> : these are all symbols. But when you are working on the concepts in
> : your own mind, the symbols can only get in the way. If adequate tools
> : existed for 3D graphics,  a blind student might very well be better at
> : it than a sighted student who might be locked into this inadequate
> : perspective drawing concept.
> :
> :
> :
> :
> : On 11/22/13 11:46, sabra1023 wrote:
> : I think if you're going to graphic having the Z axis in the air would
> : be the best option. I've been blind from birth, and while I
> : understand that sighted people delude themselves into thinking a one
> : dimensional picture is a three-dimensional object, I do not
> : understand most of the time how they come to their conclusions about
> : this. They continually treat their pictures as if they're actually
> : objects, which annoys me to no end.
> : Through school, I was just given tactile pictures and taught the way
> : cited people learn. As a result, I thought there was something wrong
> : with my brain and that I could never succeed in math because I
> : couldn't understand their pictures, methods for representing things, and
> : examples.
> : I have come to learn that my brain processes information differently
> : then cited people, but I am still debating with myself as to whether
> : this means it isn't working or not. The point is that now, I can do
> : well in math without their difficult and unnatural ways of doing th
> : in
> : gs holding me back. When sighted people look at three-dimensional
> : representations, there really looking at optical illusions. My brain
> : doesn't process these illusions. I think it means I'll be better
> : equipped to do math beyond the third dimension, but it also means I
> : can't tolerate an accurate representation of the third dimension and
> : beyond. The z-axis may appear to be floating above the quadrant, but
> : it actually isn't because The quadrant is now three-dimensional.
> : That's why I think it's even bad for sighted people to represent three
> : dimensions as pictures.
> :
> : On Nov 22, 2013, at 4:58 AM, "Mary Woodyard"
> : <marywoodyard at comcast.net<mailto:marywoodyard at comcast.net>>
> : wrote:
> :
> : My son will be starting a 3d graphing unit that is fairly short (2
> : weeks) in
> : about a week.  He spent some time searching online with his Math
> : tutor for 3d Graphing paper and this is the graph paper that they
> : found that worked the best for his vision from what they were able
> : to find in free 3d graph paper options.  Does anyone know of a more
> : accessible free (or low cost) option?
> :
> : Thanks,
> :
> : Mary Woodyard
> : Parent, 17 year old visually impaired student
> :
> : -----Original Message-----
> : From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> : blindmath-request at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath-request at nfbnet.org>
> : Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2013 7:00 AM
> : To: blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> : Subject: Blindmath Digest, Vol 88, Issue 12
> :
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> : When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
> : "Re: Contents of Blindmath digest..."
> :
> :
> : Today's Topics:
> :
> :  1. Re: Latex training (John Gardner)
> :  2. A project to advance MathML support in browsers (Andrew Stacey)
> :
> :
> : ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> :
> : Message: 1
> : Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 20:21:50 -0800
> : From: "John Gardner" 
> <gardnerj at onid.orst.edu<mailto:gardnerj at onid.orst.edu>>
> : To: "'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'"
> :   <blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org>>
> : Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Latex training
> : Message-ID: 
> <00cd01cee671$334eac90$99ec05b0$@orst.edu<mailto:00cd01cee671$334eac90$99ec05b0$@orst.edu>>
> : Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"
> :
> : Another suggestion.  There's lots of Latex materials on
> : www.access2science.com<http://www.access2science.com>
> :
> :
> : -----Original Message-----
> : From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> : Godfrey,
> : Jonathan
> : Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2013 1:42 PM
> : To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> : Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Latex training
> :
> : Hi Paul,
> :
> : I haven't got access to the net with sufficient time to find the exact
> : link
> : for you but look for the Summery University held in conjunction with the
> : ICCHP. Sessions were recorded from 2010 onwards. I'm not sure if the
> : 2013
> : ones are uploaded yet but the files mentioned should all be there for
> : reference purposes.
> : J
> :
> :
> :
> : -----Original Message-----
> : From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Paul
> : Chapin
> : Sent: Thursday, 21 November 2013 8:51 a.m.
> : To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> : Subject: [Blindmath] Latex training
> :
> : Hi,
> :
> : I'm looking for suggestions for material, courses, tutorials or anything
> : else that can be used to teach a student the basics of Latex.
> :
> : Paul Chapin
> : Academic Technology Specialist
> : Amherst College
> : X2144
> :
> : Amherst College IT staff will never ask for your password, including by
> : email. Any email asking for any password or username is almost certainly
> : bogus. Never click on a link in an email to a site that requires a login
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> : _______________________________________________
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> : du
> :
> :
> :
> :
> : ------------------------------
> :
> : Message: 2
> : Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2013 09:00:00 +0100
> : From: Andrew Stacey 
> <andrew.stacey at math.ntnu.no<mailto:andrew.stacey at math.ntnu.no>>
> : To: Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org>>
> : Subject: [Blindmath] A project to advance MathML support in browsers
> : Message-ID: 
> <20131121080000.GA590 at dhcp-020041.wlan.ntnu.no<mailto:20131121080000.GA590 at dhcp-020041.wlan.ntnu.no>>
> : Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> :
> : Dear all,
> :
> : I'd like to bring to everyone's attention a project to advance browser
> : and
> : e-reader support for MathML.  The project description itself is very
> : detailed, and explicitly mentions the issue of accessibility in the
> : motivation section.
> :
> : The person behind this project is Fr?d?ric Wang.  He is one of the
> : people
> : who has worked hard on MathML support in browser technology over the
> : last
> : few years, so is best placed to know what the issues are and what the
> : next
> : stage in development should be.  So if anyone is going to improved
> : matters,
> : he's the best choice.
> :
> : He's looking for funding so that he can spend some time concentrating on
> : MathML development and the website is on a crowd-funding site where
> : people
> : can contribute.  The actual amount that he is trying to raise is not
> : actually all that much, particularly given the wide-ranging benefits
> : that
> : could follow from this.
> :
> : I hope that all of you will consider supporting this project, and that
> : some
> : of you will actually do so.
> :
> : The website is: http://www.ulule.com/mathematics-ebooks/
> :
> : Andrew Stacey
> :
> :
> :
> : ------------------------------
> :
> : Subject: Digest Footer
> :
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> : ------------------------------
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> : End of Blindmath Digest, Vol 88, Issue 12
> : *****************************************
> : <3D Gra3.gif>
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> :
> : --
> : ---
> : John G. Heim, 608-263-4189, 
> jheim at math.wisc.edu<mailto:jheim at math.wisc.edu>
> :
> : _______________________________________________
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