[Blindmath] Nemetex

Fri Jun 7 14:36:08 UTC 2013

I never like going the route of total reliance on software, what if it 
does not work correctly? What if the software does not undertand the 
Nemeth and comes out with rubbish, yes the instructor will know 
something is wrong but will have no other way to find out than going 
back and saying it has not worked. In the worst case the software 
produces something which seems reasonable (IE. it makes sense as 
something) but does not mean the same as the original Nemeth, the 
instructor will assume the work is wrong. Someone (individual person) 
should always be able to validate what the software has done, which 
means someone should be able to understand both inputs and outputs. When 
I did my physics degree getting Braille versions of printed documents 
was a problem, the university was relying on the software to translate 
to Braille correctly which in most cases it was not, eventually I got so 
fed up with the situation I decided to learn LaTeX and try and implement 
my own software for reading LaTeX documents.

As for software to produce tactile graphics on an embosser. I have 
mainly used ViewPlus embossers for tactile graphics, the main advantage 
being that they appear just as any other printer and so you can print 
from any software. Thus I (as a blind person) have been able to use 
software to produce my own diagrams (some LaTeX packages, SVGDraw, etc). 
Of course one needs to account for tactile graphics needing to be larger 
as the resolution is lower.

Michael Whapples
On 07/06/2013 15:18, Paul Chapin wrote:
> I'd like people's reaction to this approach.  Generate the math using Nemeth code and a notetaker.  Use Nemetex to convert that to either Mathml or Latex and then print that out for the instructor. She would do her work in Nemeth and neither her or the instructor would have to actually know Latex or Mathml.
>
> As for charts and graphs, does anybody have any experience using an embosser with software that can generate tactile graphics?
>
> Paul Chapin
> Academic Technology Specialist
> Amherst College
>
> From: Shalini Menon <shalini1394 at gmail.com<mailto:shalini1394 at gmail.com>>
> Reply-To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org>>
> Date: Friday, June 7, 2013 8:46 AM
> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics' <blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org>>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Nemetex
>
> Thanks for all your help Sarah! I am trying to figure out LaTeX, because I
> feel like even if I don't use it now, I probably will find it useful at some
> point of time.
> Are you still using a Pac Mate for Math? You had mentioned that you studied
> Economics in college as well. How did you work with the Graphs? In high
> school all my diagrams were made using wikkistix on raised graph paper, but
> I've been wondering if there's another way.
>
>
> Shalini
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sarah
> Jevnikar
> Sent: 07 June 2013 05:37
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Nemetex
>
> Hi there,
> I found myself in your exact position 5 years ago: realizing with a jolt
> that my public school days of having a braill-to-print and vice-versa
> transcriber were nearly over and I needed an alternative way, preferrably
> using Nemeth.
>
> I found Nemetex, and in spite of initial bumps and many emails to the
> developers, I got it going. Here are some tips I've learned along the way.
>
> Disclaimer: I was using JAWS 8 and up, a Braille Lite 40 which became a Pac
> Mate BX400, and Windows XP.
>
> Split your work into individual questions/sections. If errors do appear, you
> don't want to have to read through a giant file for one missing main-line
> indicator. Not that I'd know anything about that ...
>
> Learn enough LaTeX to get by: sometimes you can fix your own errors this
> way. Maybe you'll want to learn the whole markup language later, but at
> least know how math symbols are rendered. Try a trial of Nemetex and
> translate a file of your own work: you'll know what you wrote in Braille,
> and you'll quickly learn it's more intuitive than you'd think.
>
> Most symbols are recognized now, but if you're using something obscure,
> check the list of supported symbols in the user's guide.
>
> If you can't access a Braille display, get acquainted with how a .txt
> braille file is read to you with speech. (for example, a punctuation
> indicator is a _, the = sign is .k). That way, you can fix things from your
> desktop (either from within Nemetex itself or in Notepad). If you do have a
> Braille display, have it hooked up for proofreading purposes.
>
> I don't mean to scare you: I have successfully used Nemetex to complete
> first (single-variable) and second-year (multi-variable) calculus,
> statistics and economics. But any software comes with a few quirks, so it's
> best that you're aware of them now rather than 2AM six months from now, the
> day before an assignment's due (not that I'd know anything about that,
> either) ;)
>
> Learning LaTeX is a good idea, but I'm still hesitant to take the plunge.
> Reading my Nemetex output certainly has helped make it look less
> intimidating.
>
> Happy studies,
> Sarah
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Blindmath [blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org>] on behalf of Shalini Menon
> [shalini1394 at gmail.com<mailto:shalini1394 at gmail.com>]
> Sent: June 5, 2013 12:49 AM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Nemetex
>
> Thanks everyone for the advice.
> Aine, that was really really helpful! I think the braille note sounds like a
> good idea, because I love Nemeth and I'm really comfortable with it.
> However, as I plan to study Economics in college as well, I will probably
> need to do a lot of Stats. I'm thinking maybe I could learn to do math on a
> computer as well, so I can switch over when ever I need to.
>
> Shalini
>
>
> On 6/5/13, Shalini Menon <shalini1394 at gmail.com<mailto:shalini1394 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> It's really nice to see you on the list!
>  From what I've read, the braille note taker comes with a Perkins style
> keyboard, which will make writing in Nemeth code easier. It also has a
> refreshable braille display, so I will be able to read everything back
> in Braille or Nemeth. As far as I know, it also has an inbuilt daisy
> player, which I can use to read some of my textbooks. I had contacted
> the Carroll Center and Susan Osterhaus to get more information about
> the Braille note taker and I will forward their emails to you. I have
> also contacted accessisoft, the company that makes Nemetex but am
> still waiting to hear from them.
>
> Thanks,
> Shalini
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Paul Chapin
> Sent: 04 June 2013 20:35
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Nemetex
>
> I've also been looking at Nemetex for this issue. However, I hate to
> show my ignorance, but my impression was that the Perkins Brailler
> produces hard copy output only and Nemetex needs an electronic file.
> We'd have to switch to either a Braille notetaker or scan the printed
> Braille. BTW, is there any way we can use a standard notebook to do
> the functions of a braille notetaker? Conceptually it doesn't look
> like they're that different.
>
> In the interest of full disclosure,  I've done some accessibility
> support in the past but it hasn't been my primary responsibility so
> I'm still in the process of bringing myself up to speed.
>
> Paul Chapin
>
>
> From: Shalini Menon
> <shalini1394 at gmail.com<mailto:shalini1394 at gmail.com><mailto:shalini1394 at gmail.com>>
> Reply-To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org><mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org>>
> Date: Tuesday, June 4, 2013 12:15 AM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org><mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org>>
> Subject: [Blindmath] Nemetex
>
> Hello!
>
> I plan to major in Math and have been trying to figure out how I would
> work out and submit my math assignments. I've previously used a
> Perkins brailler to work out Math problems in Nemeth code. I've been
> looking out for a programme that converts Nemeth code into print. Has
> anyone used Nemetex?
> I'm
> not really sure how it works. I've heard that it works well with the
> braille note and I've been thinking of getting the braille note apex.
> Does Nemetex work well with this model?
> I've also looked into learning LaTeX, but as a braille and Nemeth code
> user, I'm not sure if this is the best option. I would really
> appreciate any advice or suggestions.
>
> Thanks,
> Shalini
>
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