[Blindmath] Do they learn the Math skill?
Mary Woodyard
marywoodyard at comcast.net
Sun Nov 17 16:48:51 UTC 2013
In my son's school the choice of which calculator can be used or not used
depends on the skill being taught and whether your End of Course test will
allow you to use one. Also each teacher has a choice has to how they are
going to teach the skill so some may teach with the calculator and some may
not. In general the Georgia state rules are no one can use a calculator on
a standardized test until they are through 8th grade. I think this may
change with Common Core as they moved some skills (like finding the midpoint
of a line) down to 8th grade from 9th grade. However, that is how it is
today.
In high school, students have to take End of Course tests or EOCTs on Math 1
and Math 2 to graduate from High School. No one is allowed to use a
graphing calculator of any kind (accessible or regular) on an EOCT so in
general at least through Math 2 the emphasis is not to use it in regular
classroom testing as the student will not be allowed to use it on the EOCT.
All 9th-12th graders can use a Scientific Calculator on both the Math 1,
Math 2 and also the Physical Science EOCT - so for Scientific or statistics
calculations they tend to use the calculator a lot - on graphing - not so
much until Math 3 whatever year you are taking that.
My son was introduced to Graphing Exponentials and Graphing Logs this week
in his Math 3 class and his teacher taught them both ways and gave them the
choice of doing it with or without the calculator. It was kind of
interesting as he explained this to his Math tutor she recommended he do it
without the calculator because her son is a sophomore in college now and the
college won't let them use the calculator. He chose to do it without but
then his teacher recommended he go back and check his work with the
calculator. Again, Math 3 has no EOCT required for Graduation - so it's a
very individual choice between the student and the teacher based on the
skill they are learning.
Graphing calculators are allowed on the SAT so that is a whole other set of
College Board approvals to go through but my son has been able to obtain
College Board approval to use his. He does have the Orion 84+. It has been
much easier to use than his Scientific Orion 36 because the key strokes are
the same and the teacher does not have to make any adjustments.
So - it really just depends on who is teaching Math and what the testing
requirements are for the grade that is being taught.
-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
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Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2013 7:00 AM
To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
Subject: Blindmath Digest, Vol 88, Issue 8
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Today's Topics:
1. Determine wether you need (or will be allowed) to use a
scientific verses a graphing calculator (Mary Woodyard)
2. Re: Scientific calculator for high-school student (Susan Jolly)
3. Re: Scientific calculator for high-school student (sabra1023)
4. Re: Scientific calculator for high-school student
(Lewicki, Maureen)
5. Re: [Blind math] Scientific calculator for high-school
student (Ken Perry)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 08:04:16 -0500
From: "Mary Woodyard" <marywoodyard at comcast.net>
To: <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [Blindmath] Determine wether you need (or will be allowed) to
use a scientific verses a graphing calculator
Message-ID: <005701cee2cc$5b631930$12294b90$@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Pawin - my son has experience with both calculators (the Scientific
Accessible Calculator - the Orion TI-36 and the Graphing Accessible 84+).
They have filled very different needs for him. From your description of
what you will need it sounds like the Scientific Calculator is more what you
need (the Orion TI 36) which is more available than the graphing calculator.
We did discover though that this calculator has one major limitation as
opposed to the calculator your sighted peers will be using and that is it
does not simplify radicals.
It is possible to work around this limitation because you can simplify
radicals manually - it is just something to be aware of. He was lucky in
his high school in that the Special Ed Director was a Math Specialist so she
compared all of the Accessible Calculators that were available and none of
them simplified radicals which will be an important skill for you in this
course so you may want to be ready to focus on the manual work for that and
may want to make your instructors aware. Usually you can purchase direct
from Texas Instruments (who worked with Orion to produce both the Scientific
36 and the Graphing 84) a computer emulation version of the calculator that
your sighted peers will be using. In my son's case, the school standardized
on the TI 30XS. However, my son's school would not allow him to use the
computer version because they did not want him to be able to access programs
that would allow him to store data on the computer for testing purposes.
That is a decision you will need to work out with your school.
If the school will let you use a computer emulator to do your work for the
same calculator the rest of the class is using - it will be easier for you
as the keystrokes to perform the functions will be the same as the other
student's keystrokes. The Scientific Orion 36 keystrokes are going to be
different than everyone else's calculator so you will need to learn the same
functions they do - but your keystrokes will be different. The website link
for the calculator emulation software for the TI MultiView 30XS is
http://education.ti.com/en/us/products/computer_software/ti-smartview-softwa
re/ti-smartview-emulator-software-for-the-ti-30x-ti-34-multiview-calculators
/tabs/overview. If you can use emulation software on a computer instead
of a physical accessible scientific calculator, your keystrokes will be the
same. In addition, the emulator will simplify radicals which is a skill you
will find useful to be automated. You will probably use this again in
physics.
So my advice is to get with your teacher and find out if you need a graphing
calculator (the TI 84+) or a Scientific Calculator (the Orion 36) is one.
If it's a Scientific Calculator you need, advise the teacher your Orion 36
will not simplify radicals - but if you can use a computer software package
to emulate the calculator the class is using - you will be able to use the
same keystrokes and have the same functionality as the rest of the class.
The school may have a emulation version of the calculator the standardize on
already that you can use because a lot of schools teach from it.
If you need to purchase the Orion 36 - there are lots of places to do that
and it is available. There are other options though and depending on your
level of vision and whether you want the calculator to be able to talk with
or without headphones you may choose a different one. I only have
experience with the Orion TI 36. Here is a website that gives you some
options to research
http://www.visionaustralia.org/living-with-low-vision/learning-to-live-indep
endently/using-technology-and-computers/technology-overview/accessible-calcu
lator-options. You really need to lock down though whether you need a
graphing or a scientific calculator before you do anything else though.
Mary Woodyard
Parent of a visually impaired high school junior
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From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
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Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2013 7:00 AM
To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
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Today's Topics:
1. Scientific calculator for high-school student (?????? .)
2. Re: Scientific calculator for high-school student (sabra1023)
3. Re: Scientific calculator for high-school student
(Susan Osterhaus)
4. Re: Scientific calculator for high-school student (Pranav Lal)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 06:00:20 +0700
From: ?????? . <pawin35 at hotmail.com>
To: "blindmath at nfbnet.org" <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [Blindmath] Scientific calculator for high-school student
Message-ID: <BAY178-W8EAC925F66392A469025FA8FB0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hi, the members of Blindmath mailing list I'm a visually impaired person
currently enrolled in the high-school curriculum emphasizing on scientific
and mathematic study in Thailand.
Through my primary to middle school, we are not allowed to use any kind of
calculator in the examination room so I never own one.
However, since the introduction of high-school curriculum, my instructor
told us that we are ?required? to use the scientific calculator in the
examination room. Furthermore, from looking at the exercise sheets that my
instructor has given me, it is quite impossible to solve the questions by
hand (at least in the time given for the test); thus, the requirement above.
This set me on a quest for a talking scientific calculator which led me to
find the Orion Ti-84+ talking calculator that fits all my needs.
Unfortunately, my contact with APH this morning reviewed that the unit will
not be available until next year. (Which is way past my examination date.).
So, here is my question: is there any way that I can get this calculator
from other than APH?
Or, is there any talking scientific calculator that is comparable to the
Orion?
My requirement right now is that it must do fraction and scientific
notation, can work with many levels of parenthesis, be able to calculate
trigonometric function, universal exponent and root, and solve real number 1
variable equation If anybody has any information or recommendation please
let me know.
Thanks in advance
P.S. sorry for my bad English.
P.S.2. Sorry if this is the duplicate; I didn't see my previous post on the
list.
Best regards
Pawin
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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 17:50:12 -0600
From: sabra1023 <sabra1023 at gmail.com>
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Cc: "blindmath at nfbnet.org" <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Scientific calculator for high-school student
Message-ID: <5C3712B7-8F13-449D-8894-F0E4A2707B7F at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I don't know of any comparable calculator. Here in the states, it's already
available through APH. They might be backordered. I don't know though
because I'm not getting one. If it is an issue of it just not being released
in Thailand, you could find a person or organization in the states that
could purchase it and ship it to you if you gave them the money or some sort
of arrangement like that. The main calculator I use is on my notetaker,
which is a braillenote from humanware. You could also type the formulas and
two Microsoft XL and had it solve them. There is also a computer program you
could purchase called the audio graphing calculator, but I used it in high
school, and found it difficult because it could only understand limited
equations. Microsoft XL does do a lot though. It might even be better then a
calculator on the note taker because you can do lots of things with big
strings of numbers.
> On Nov 15, 2013, at 5:00 PM, ?????? . <pawin35 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi, the members of Blindmath mailing list I'm a visually impaired
> person currently enrolled in the high-school curriculum emphasizing on
scientific and mathematic study in Thailand.
> Through my primary to middle school, we are not allowed to use any
> kind of
calculator in the examination room so I never own one.
> However, since the introduction of high-school curriculum, my
> instructor told us that we are ?required? to use the scientific
> calculator in the examination room. Furthermore, from looking at the
exercise sheets that my instructor has given me, it is quite impossible to
solve the questions by hand (at least in the time given for the test); thus,
the requirement above.
> This set me on a quest for a talking scientific calculator which led
> me to
find the Orion Ti-84+ talking calculator that fits all my needs.
> Unfortunately, my contact with APH this morning reviewed that the unit
will not be available until next year. (Which is way past my examination
date.).
> So, here is my question: is there any way that I can get this
> calculator
from other than APH?
> Or, is there any talking scientific calculator that is comparable to
> the
Orion?
> My requirement right now is that it must do fraction and scientific
> notation, can work with many levels of parenthesis, be able to
> calculate trigonometric function, universal exponent and root, and
> solve
real number 1 variable equation If anybody has any information or
recommendation please let me know.
> Thanks in advance
> P.S. sorry for my bad English.
> P.S.2. Sorry if this is the duplicate; I didn't see my previous post
> on
the list.
> Best regards
> Pawin
> list of 5 items
> ? 2013 Microsoft
> Terms
> Privacy
> Developers
> English (United States)
> list end
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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Blindmath:
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> il.com
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 21:15:57 -0600
From: Susan Osterhaus <osterhauss at tsbvi.edu>
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Scientific calculator for high-school student
Message-ID: <534df5a974ba276467cc9c5ddf36d64a at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
Hi Pawin,
Prior to the Orion TI-84+, we used the Audio Graphing Calculator (View Plus
Technologies) plus the Orion TI-36X (Orbit Research) talking scientific
calculator. The AGC was needed for graphing and matrices, while the TI-36X
was able to calculate most scientific computations (including all or most of
those you mentioned below). However, the Orion TI-36X DOES NOT GRAPH. The
Orion TI-84+ (APH and Orbit Research collaboration with TI) sold out of its
first batch immediately upon its debut and had 643 on back order a month
ago. My understanding is that those back orders will be arriving shortly.
So, apparently (from your APH communication) the next batch of back orders
won't be available until 2014.
Best wishes,
Susan
-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of ?????? .
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 5:00 PM
To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
Subject: [Blindmath] Scientific calculator for high-school student
Hi, the members of Blindmath mailing list I'm a visually impaired person
currently enrolled in the high-school curriculum emphasizing on scientific
and mathematic study in Thailand.
Through my primary to middle school, we are not allowed to use any kind of
calculator in the examination room so I never own one.
However, since the introduction of high-school curriculum, my instructor
told us that we are ?required? to use the scientific calculator in the
examination room. Furthermore, from looking at the exercise sheets that my
instructor has given me, it is quite impossible to solve the questions by
hand (at least in the time given for the test); thus, the requirement above.
This set me on a quest for a talking scientific calculator which led me to
find the Orion Ti-84+ talking calculator that fits all my needs.
Unfortunately, my contact with APH this morning reviewed that the unit will
not be available until next year. (Which is way past my examination date.).
So, here is my question: is there any way that I can get this calculator
from other than APH?
Or, is there any talking scientific calculator that is comparable to the
Orion?
My requirement right now is that it must do fraction and scientific
notation, can work with many levels of parenthesis, be able to calculate
trigonometric function, universal exponent and root, and solve real number 1
variable equation If anybody has any information or recommendation please
let me know.
Thanks in advance
P.S. sorry for my bad English.
P.S.2. Sorry if this is the duplicate; I didn't see my previous post on the
list.
Best regards
Pawin
list of 5 items
? 2013 Microsoft
Terms
Privacy
Developers
English (United States)
list end
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Message: 4
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 12:53:40 +0530
From: "Pranav Lal" <pranav.lal at gmail.com>
To: "'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'"
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Scientific calculator for high-school student
Message-ID: <015c01cee29c$c8699020$593cb060$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hi Pawin,
Will the school allow you to use a program olike Microsoft Excel? That can
do some of what you need.
Pranav
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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 09:51:02 -1000
From: Susan Jolly <easjolly at ix.netcom.com>
To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Scientific calculator for high-school student
Message-ID: <2236DF4D-027E-4B98-8AA6-77FC09F75533 at ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I'm confused. Do students just learn keystrokes now and no longer have to
understand the underlying math?
SusanJ
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 18:56:20 -0600
From: sabra1023 <sabra1023 at gmail.com>
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Cc: "blindmath at nfbnet.org" <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Scientific calculator for high-school student
Message-ID: <E265BC25-DAA7-4804-A48C-84FE62C22720 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Actually yes. Introducing a graphing calculator too early is a common
problem and American schools. I recently got out of high school and I'm in
college, and when I was in middle school, we're talking sixth and seventh
grade, everyone was using a graphing calculator except me because one didn't
exist for the blind yet. In Thailand however, things are probably different.
When you get to higher-level math like trigonometry and calculus, it becomes
impractical and takes away from learning the concepts when you have to do
difficult problem my hand.
> On Nov 16, 2013, at 1:51 PM, Susan Jolly <easjolly at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> I'm confused. Do students just learn keystrokes now and no longer have to
understand the underlying math?
>
> SusanJ
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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2013 02:02:34 +0000
From: "Lewicki, Maureen" <mlewicki at bcsd.neric.org>
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Scientific calculator for high-school student
Message-ID: <20494D1B-925E-4F7C-A943-8694CAA0279E at bcsd.neric.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
My students can not use the graphing calculators in middle school, nor
calculators, except for isolated situations, on rare occasion. The focus is
still on teaching the concepts.
Maureen Lewicki
Teacher of the Visually Impaired
Bethlehem Central Schools
700 Delaware Avenue
Delmar, NY 12054
http://bcsd.k12.ny.us/
On Nov 16, 2013, at 7:57 PM, "sabra1023"
<sabra1023 at gmail.com<mailto:sabra1023 at gmail.com>> wrote:
Actually yes. Introducing a graphing calculator too early is a common
problem and American schools. I recently got out of high school and I'm in
college, and when I was in middle school, we're talking sixth and seventh
grade, everyone was using a graphing calculator except me because one didn't
exist for the blind yet. In Thailand however, things are probably different.
When you get to higher-level math like trigonometry and calculus, it becomes
impractical and takes away from learning the concepts when you have to do
difficult problem my hand.
On Nov 16, 2013, at 1:51 PM, Susan Jolly
<easjolly at ix.netcom.com<mailto:easjolly at ix.netcom.com>> wrote:
I'm confused. Do students just learn keystrokes now and no longer have to
understand the underlying math?
SusanJ
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Message: 5
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 21:18:20 -0500
From: "Ken Perry" <kperry at blinksoft.com>
To: "'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'"
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] [Blind math] Scientific calculator for
high-school student
Message-ID: <002e01cee33b$4a93d120$dfbb7360$@blinksoft.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Not in most cases in fact the new core standards are pretty clear when you
can use certain calculators and when you cannot. Of course that is once
they come in to play. Some states like Georgia allow a student to use a
calculator that does the quadratic equation function on a test that tests
students if they can solve the equation but they also require the work. So
if the student gets the right answer and does it wrong then they get it
wrong. In that case there is a problem because I don't think they have a
standard on how a teacher grades that. I mean do they get it all wrong half
wrong or what.
In most cases students have to work the problem out and test their answers
with the calculator. I will also point out in the 90's Utah had a question
on the state college exam that if a student used an HP 48 or a I think it
was a TI89 at the time they would get the problem wrong if they didn't know
how to setup the calculator correctly. I as a blind student was the only
one to get that test problem right in my class because I used another method
rather than graphing it on a calculator to find out how many times the graph
changed directions.
I can tell you with all the teachers I have talked to during the development
of the Orion TI-84 Plus most say that they do use Graphing calculators but
they teach the concepts and make sure students understand them before they
are allowed to use them to speed up more advanced concepts. That doesn't
mean there are not some people abusing the use of Calculator s in the class
room but I think it is an incorrect assumption to think all united states
schools are over using them in fact I think it is a gross exaggeration.
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Susan
Jolly
Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2013 2:51 PM
To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Scientific calculator for high-school student
I'm confused. Do students just learn keystrokes now and no longer have to
understand the underlying math?
SusanJ
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