[Blindmath] Typing in Nemeth Braille
P. McDermott-Wells
pmw at mega-data.com
Mon Sep 16 15:59:57 UTC 2013
The high price tag is for a "certified" Braille translation done by a
"certified" transcriptionist, and yes, it does take a long time. As an
informal advocate for several VI students at the university where I teach, I
undertook to create a "good enough" translation of a College Algebra & Trig
text. Here are some comments and some of the problems we encountered:
- The physical layout of the textbook page: Today's textbooks are designed
with lots of "eye candy" features, including sidebar text, multiple columns,
bordered inserts on related topics, etc. These inserts often appear right
in the middle of a paragraph, but with visual cues such as borders and
background colors, a sighted reader knows to ignore them until they have
finished reading the paragraph. A straight translation by a tool, however,
does not know to do this. Manual editing is required.
- The math portions of a math text do not convert using OCR scanning,
primarily because they can be multi-line and are spatially arranged. Manual
editing is required to reproduce these.
- Diagrams: may or may not need to have a supporting description added.
Manual editing required for this.
- Diagrams: should be simplified and reproduced as tactile diagrams so that
they can be sued by a VI student. This requires a subject matter expert to
determine what can be removed from the diagram without losing its conceptual
value. That often meant that we had to recreate the diagram from scratch
using graphics tools in order to simplify and enlarge the diagram and reduce
or change what text was on it.
We used a number of tools, in a series of steps, include InftyReader,
MathType, Microsoft Expression Design, Word, and ViewPlus's Tiger Suite.
But the key throughout the process is the need for manual editing and
preparation. Each chapter of about 60 pages took probably about 10-20 hours
on average, due to the high amount of editing and the large amount of
diagram work in algebra and trig. We have done other books on marketing,
management, networking, etc., that have much less or no math, and there is
still editing required due to the physical layout issues and diagrams.
Based on my experiences with VI students taking math/CS/IT courses, it is my
opinion that A VI student needs a strong advocate and facilitator. Your
school's disability center may or may not have someone able to do what we
did, and they may or may not be willing to expend the time and money to do
it. Your advocate will help you fight for those resources (instead of
letting them tell you that you don't need math), and/or will gather the
resources to get the job done for you. Your disability center may be quite
happy to pay an outside team to do what we did since it lets them off the
hook. Or your state's Dept. of Education may have funds for this. Just
remember that the results are not "certified", but they are "good enough" to
get you through the course.
Be persistent - do not accept your university's offer to waive you out of
the math course. Accepting that may only limit your options even more for
going on to a Master's degree. Remember that from their standpoint, it is
cheaper and faster (and legal) to waive the course or get you to change your
major. You may have to find your own advocate. I never planned to get
involved in this, but one VI student (an avid fisherman) cast his line my
way, set the hook, and then reeled me in slowly, lol!
As for automated translation to Braille - ViewPlus's Tiger Suite does a
great job, if the input is straight forward and properly prepared. With
MathType objects in a Word document, it performs very well and produces
Nemeth Braille. The headache is the pre-editing as described above.
I wish I could have given you a nice one-step process that any VI student
could employ on his/her own to prepare his/her materials without outside
help. But we are not there yet, and unless the publishers release the
textbooks in a form already prepared (unlikely to happen anytime soon),
manual pre-editing and prep will be needed.
--------------
I didn't know that it could cost up to $70K to transcribe a math text into
Braille. If that's true ... WOW!!!
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that in this day and age of
electronic files, computer processing technology, there HAS to be a way to
define a markup language that can be translated to Braille. Come up with a
markup with the necessary "tokens" (i.e. similar to the TAGS in HTML which
denote what type of data element you're defining) so that a text block can
be identified, a table can be identified, an equation can be identified, and
so on. There are a lot of brilliant people out there. Surely some group
can arrive at an agreement and define a markup language such that every
distinct piece of data in a textbook can be identified. And if at some
point, another data entity is created (as things do change) then just define
another data identifier. But have a standard set that DOESN'T CHANGE for
God's sake. Then, once that's done, force the publishers to publish in that
format. EVERY .. SINGLE .. TIME. And have them create an electronic file
containing this markup which is what they use to print the book from. Their
publishing software can ignore any accessibility information that might be
part of the publishing file. Once the standard is defined, the
"accessibility" experts can get their hands on the specification and write
custom code to process each of the unique identifiers.
The electronic publisher file could then be run through a separate process
that "reformats" the textbook file and looks for the standard set of markup
tags. When it finds one of the tags, it knows what data elements it expects
to find along with that tag, and so it can execute custom code associated
with that tag to format that particular data block. If both groups
(publisher and accessibility publishers) are both following the same
standard, there shouldn't be any surprises. Next, here's where having
transcribers would probably still be necessary. A computer program can only
do what it's programmed to do, and perhaps content that is translated into
the accessible textbook format might just not be good for blind students.
Enter the translator. Their job is to proofread and to "re-orient" the
pre-formatted text. The hope would be that enough analysis is done by the
"accessibility experts" that developed the custom code for the accessibility
translation that the transcriber only has to get involved manually say 30%
of the time. I do know that nothing is perfect, and you WOULD need to have
manual translation because even though you can program the computer to do
something the same way all the time ... sometimes the "automated way" will
just probably not work. However, if the automation was developed well,
hopefully the cost of publication would be significantly reduced.
But let's not kid ourselves here. This would be a major undertaking. In
the long run, it would allow the student to hopefully get their text at the
same time as the sighted counterpart.
And we could make sure then, that given this standard output from the
publishers, you could write translation software that could deliver to
Notetakers, iPads, and other devices that don't exist yet. It would also
reinforce the transcribers career.
One individual won't be able to do this. It will take an organization such
as the NFB or perhaps combination of NFB/AFB or whoever to get together and
agree, and then ... it would probably come to this ... bring a lawsuit
against the publishers and make them comply. I just wonder if something
like this will ever happen. As I see it, everyone has to agree this is a
good thing, and then resources have to be allocated. Without it, an idea
like this is dead.
> Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 08:51:40 -0700
> From: tami at poodlemutt.com
> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Typing in Nemeth Braille
>
> Mike,
>
> Some of the factors you mention no doubt do come into play in the lack
> of availability of math/science texts. But apparently the core reason
> is cost and time. I remember reading a couple years back how it can
> cost something like $70k to transcribe a math text. Er... Anybody feel
> free to correct me if I'm wrong on that; I remember that figure
> because I found it quite shocking. There is a low demand for those
> texts, also, and different profs use different texts. Some change
> texts frequently. I took a stab at getting back to school a few years
> back and kept running into trouble with texts... It would take a year
> or two, the school assured me, to get the text transcribed into
> braille, but the profs changed texts every year, so... I was an older
> student and didn't have time for that, so I decided to get back to
> work... Then the economy crashed, so that didn't work, either. Then I
> moved here and the economy is picking up, but I still am not finding jobs
to apply for here. Oh, well.
>
> The conversation about the expense on texts would be in the archives
> of this list, come to think of it. I was busy with the family stuff at
> the time and keep meaning to go back and read it myself with more
attention.
> It was quite fascinating.
>
> I always love reading how others conceptualize and work with math. I
> was really curious how I would make the transition from sighted math
> geek to blind math whatever. I plan to get back to school later on for
> a vanity degree -- one I'm getting to old to use for a career but that
> I'm going to get just to say I did it! I notice other little old
> ladies are doing that these days. We didn't manage the hurdles of
> discrimination and other barriers back in the day, but now we can do
> what we want, so there! /lol/ I also am planning to wait on the
> math/science thing until I have my own toolkit and all so I don't have
> to fuss with disability services or any of that just to be able to do
> my homework. Well, I may get a reader through them or something, or
> just hire my own. I just am not interested in hearing, "Since blind
> people can't really do math and you're not going to need it in any job
> you can do..." Which I heard back in the day as "since girls can't
> really do math and are not going to need it in the kitchen or to raise
> babies..." Probably, some fool will assure me that "since little old
> ladies can't really learn math and you're not going to need it in the
> nursing home..." Shortly after that, they will probably whine and tell
> me they thought little old ladies are supposed to be nice despite my
demonstration that no such thing is true.
> /evil smirk/ But if I have my own tools and all, there attitude won't
> affect my logistics. So there!
>
> Tami
>
>
>
>
>
> On 09/15/2013 04:38 AM, Mike Jolls wrote:
> > I'm curious why electronic math books are difficult to find.
> >
> > Is the problem the publisher - not wanting to release the book in an
electronic format?
> > Or perhaps publishers don't want to have to deal with special
formatting/publishing for the blind - they think this task falls to special
interest groups to receive their electronic file and re-publish it in the
format that is necessary?
> >
> > Is the problem that there isn't a formatting standard for alternative
printing of scientific/math texts so publishers don't understand how books
need to be formatted?
> > Perhaps the debate between computer braille, nemeth braille, unified
braille hasn't been resolved yet.
> > I know there was a big debate over which was better - math in UEB (takes
more space to format) or math in Nemeth.
> > The last thing I read on the net said that BANA has adopted UEB which
uses Nemeth for formatting scientific sections of text, so perhaps they've
resolved that debate.
> >
> > Has the format been agreed upon, but there aren't enough transcribers to
do the work to publish the necessary text?
> >
> > Or does the problem lie somewhere else?
> >
> > Just wondering if we can identify the problem, so that it can be solved.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> CC: blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >> From: sabra1023 at gmail.com
> >> Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 02:30:46 -0500
> >> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Typing in Nemeth Braille
> >>
> >> I do everything in computer Brill. It helps me more because if I
> >> don't know how to write a symbol, I can insert it as a Unicode
> >> character. Especially when you start doing advanced math, the
> >> symbols get to be very awkward. I use parentheses and other special
> >> symbols rather then sub and superscripts to help me interpret
> >> equations that contain fractions and exponents. Simple graphs are
> >> fine, but I prefer to replace more complex graphs with tables.
> >> Also, despite the thoughts of many sighted people, braille has
> >> worked the best for me to represent mathematics. Don't let any
> >> sighted person make you think you should be happy with a reader or
> >> audio textbook. So far, the best option for me has been electronic
> >> textbooks that I can read with refreshable braille along with
> >> supplementary tactile illustrations when necessary. In addition to
> >> being more cost-effective, these books are more portable. However,
> >> electronic math books that are user-friendly chill blind person can
> >> be difficult to find. B
> asically though, usable book in any format will be difficult to come by,
so don't let lack of availability get you down. Right now, I have worked it
out with my teacher so that I can use an earlier addition of a book the
class isn't using so I can have access to it.
> >>
> >> On Sep 15, 2013, at 1:51 AM, "I. C. Bray" <i.c.bray at win.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Yes, I understand the whole linear-spatial thing.
> >>> I tend to be able to "imagine" what a trig graph looks like based
> >>> on the equation... I learned how to interpret linear, quadratic,
> >>> third-order equations while I had sight...
> >>> Three dimensional graphs... still whip me around though... ugh.
> >>>
> >>> The right to left thing is probably an inherrant "feature" of
> >>> braille. What I mean is, is that braille is meant to be read Left
> >>> to Right, so prefixes and super / subscripts can be misinterpereted.
> >>>
> >>> I am only theorizing here, because I have not yet begun to work or
> >>> do advanced math in braille yet, but I imagine that using spaces
> >>> to isolate terms and expressions even though it isn't propper in
> >>> nemeth should help some.
> >>>
> >>> Ian
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "sabra1023" <sabra1023 at gmail.com>
> >>> To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics"
> >>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> >>> Cc: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics"
> >>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> >>> Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 2:18 AM
> >>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Typing in Nemeth Braille
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> : All I know is that I write my math homework in Microsoft Word. I
> >>> have to be reading with a braille display, and everything needs to
> >>> be linear, not multidimensional. Also, my brain can't think
> >>> correctly if I have to work from right to left. I don't know if
> >>> those math needs are common among blind people, but you could try
> >>> them to see if it helps. Oh, and another thing is that it might
> >>> help to get text descriptions of diagrams and represent things
algebraically rather then graphically as much as possible.
> >>> :
> >>> : On Sep 15, 2013, at 1:03 AM, "I. C. Bray" <i.c.bray at win.net> wrote:
> >>> :
> >>> : > Neil,
> >>> : > Well, I am going to need to use something, and I have been
> >>> putting off
> >>> : > deciding until I get some idea what's out there and what makes
> >>> sence for me.
> >>> : > I don't want to have to learn 5 new programs and try to keep
> >>> the command &
> >>> : > control sets seperate...
> >>> : > I've been reading the BlindMath ListServ and hearing the
> >>> difficulties and am
> >>> : > just hoping I collect enough info and various ways to approach
> >>> my own Math,
> >>> : > Science, and Teaching needs now that I'm blind.
> >>> : >
> >>> : > OH, Side note question.
> >>> : > Is the Blind Science listserv not active?? I Joined the list,
> >>> and do not
> >>> : > think I got any replies...
> >>> : >
> >>> : > Ian
> >>> : > ----- Original Message -----
> >>> : > From: "Neil Soiffer" <NeilS at dessci.com>
> >>> : > To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics"
> >>> : > <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> >>> : > Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 1:52 AM
> >>> : > Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Typing in Nemeth Braille
> >>> : >
> >>> : >
> >>> : > : You can also use MathType with Word and then use Duxbury to
> >>> translate to
> >>> : > : Nemeth. Like Scientific notebook, with MathType you just
> >>> type the math in
> >>> : > : using an easy math editor. If you are a familiar with Word,
> >>> it is probably
> >>> : > : a better option than getting Scientific Notebook and having
> >>> to learn that.
> >>> : > : MathType is just a math editor and so is a lot cheaper than
> >>> Scientific
> >>> : > : notebook. Your school might already have a site license
> >>> [full
> >>> disclosure:
> >>> : > : my company makes MathType]
> >>> : > :
> >>> : > : Neil Soiffer
> >>> : > : Senior Scientist
> >>> : > : Design Science, Inc.
> >>> : > : www.dessci.com
> >>> : > : ~ Makers of MathType, MathFlow, MathPlayer, MathDaisy,
> >>> Equation Editor ~
> >>> : > :
> >>> : > :
> >>> : > :
> >>> : > : On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 5:46 PM, Allan Mesoga
> >>> : > <allan.mesoga at gmail.com>wrote:
> >>> : > :
> >>> : > : > You can also use scientific notebook and save it as latex
> >>> and open it
> >>> : > : > using duxbury then translate.
> >>> : > : >
> >>> : > : > On 9/10/13, Sharon O'Neill <soneill1 at haverford.edu> wrote:
> >>> : > : > > Hi Gabriela: were you able to find an answer to the
> >>> Nemeth Braille
> >>> : > : > > software question? I see they directed you to the
> >>> fellow that has
> >>> : > : > revamped
> >>> : > : > > the nfbnet list for blindmath. Were you able to contact
him?
> >>> : > : > >
> >>> : > : > > I would be very interested in what he suggested.
> >>> : > : > >
> >>> : > : > > Regards,
> >>> : > : > >
> >>> : > : > > Sheri
> >>> : > : > >
> >>> : > : > >
> >>> : > : > > On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 4:25 PM, Gabriela Moats
> >>> <gmoats at haverford.edu>
> >>> : > : > > wrote:
> >>> : > : > >
> >>> : > : > >> Hi all,
> >>> : > : > >> I need to make raised tactile images that contain
> >>> labels with math
> >>> : > : > >> symbols for a blind student and he would like them to
> >>> be typed in
> >>> : > Nemeth
> >>> : > : > >> Braille. Usually I just type them in SimBraille font
> >>> and then feed it
> >>> : > : > >> through an embosser so that the dots become raised
> >>> Braille, but I
> >>> : > need
> >>> : > : > to
> >>> : > : > >> be able to type in Nemeth Braille for this science
> >>> course. Does
> >>> : > anyone
> >>> : > : > >> know
> >>> : > : > >> of a software program or font I can download that would
> >>> allow me to
> >>> : > do
> >>> : > : > >> this?
> >>> : > : > >>
> >>> : > : > >> Thank you,
> >>> : > : > >>
> >>> : > : > >> Gabriela
> >>> : > : > >>
> >>> : > : > >> --
> >>> : > : > >> Gabriela Echavarría Moats
> >>> : > : > >> Special Assignment Coordinator of Accommodations
> >>> : > : > >> Office of Disabilities Services
> >>> : > : > >> Haverford College
> >>> : > : > >> Stokes Hall 118F
> >>> : > : > >> gmoats at haverford.edu
> >>> : > : > >> _______________________________________________
> >>> : > : > >> Blindmath mailing list
> >>> : > : > >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
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> >>> : > : >
> >>> : >
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/soneill1%40
> >>> haverford.edu
> >>> : > : > >>
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> >>> : > : > >
> >>> : > : >
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