[Blindmath] books in accessible format

[Steve Jacobson]

Susan,

Thank you for writing.  I had been told on numerous occasions that this was a good site for math information and thought the list 
should know about it.  Your efforts are appreciated.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Wed, 18 Sep 2013 13:23:31 -0500, Susan Osterhaus wrote:

>Hi Steve,

>Although I know about a lot of new math projects (and am actually involved
>in several), I'm afraid that I have gotten behind in putting them up on my
>math website (www.tsbvi.edu/math) I need to find a spare moment to post
>some things there. Perhaps my webmaster, Jim Allan, can help us out.

>Susan


>Susan A Osterhaus
>Statewide Mathematics Consultant
>Outreach Programs
>Texas School for the Blind
>  And Visually Impaired
>1100 West 45th Street
>Austin, TX 78756
>Email: susanosterhaus at tsbvi.edu
>Phone: 512-206-9305
>Website: www.tsbvi.edu/math
>Distance Ed: http://distance.tsbvi.edu/osterhaus_math_intro.html



>-----Original Message-----
>From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve
>Jacobson
>Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 1:10 PM
>To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>Subject: Re: [Blindmath] books in accessible format

>John and others,

>It is worth taking the time to be sure we know what might already be
>available and what might be in the works.  One site that has quite a lot
>on it is the Texas School for the Blind math website.  It is at

>http://www.tsbvi.edu/math

>and while it centers on education, it has links to some projects as well.
>I'll do some digging.

>Best regards,

>Steve Jacobson

>On Tue, 17 Sep 2013 14:33:09 -0500, John G. Heim wrote:

>>There's no central resource for info on math accessibility, is there?
>>If not, I could start one. I happen to be President of the
>>International Association of Visually Impaired Technologists. We could
>>provide web space. I think we could probably even provide a domain name
>>like blindmath.org or something like that.

>>On 09/17/13 14:27, Tami Jarvis wrote:
>>> Ian,
>>>
>>> Well, I know there are people interested in maybe investing in
>>> projects that improve accessibility and all. There are also people
>>> who have been working all these years who are beginning to wonder
>>> where to put their free time and resources as they approach or move
>>> into retirement. I think that this new phenomenon of a good number of
>>> retired, highly skilled blind folks will be something of a game
>>> changer over time. It won't be as dramatic as the baby boomers or
>>> even have the impact of a generation of professional women on
>>> markets, but things are happening more and more. Should be interesting.
>>>
>>> Hm... Okay, so in my current situation, I'm afraid to call good
>>> friends in case they will want to do lunch. Too much commitment! When
>>> I tell myself I'm being silly to think something will come up just
>>> because I committed to doing lunch, then guess what? Sigh. Well, I'm
>>> committed to the family thing for the duration, so all other bets are
>off, I guess.
>>> I'm keeping up with all the great things others are doing in the
>>> wider world, and the discussions and ideas and progress in the hopes
>>> I can find a niche to contribute when I am able.
>>>
>>> So if you want to use your free time and brains to do the preliminary
>>> research and feasibility studies and boring ground work, I will be
>>> interested in following your progress to see what you find for
>>> possible future reference. I think it could be a good thing, a very
>>> good thing, supposing it is doable. The challenges and hurdles others
>>> who know more have mentioned are very real, of course. That doesn't
>>> mean that with time, resources, talent, and lots of perserverance they
>can't be overcome.
>>>
>>> Consolidating thoughts on the various posts in this and the recent
>>> spin off threads... There does seem to be an overwhelming amount of
>>> chaos in technical accessibility -- math, science, computers,
>>> software, etc. -- as well as progress in various directions that
>>> sometimes seems frustrating because it would be so great to have just
>>> one nice, neat solution that every one is behind. Sometimes I get
>>> really excited just sitting back and watching it all. Other times, I
>>> feel exhausted with all the work others are doing. /lol/
>>>
>>> I've also seen greater availability of materials and tools in the
>>> short time I've been on the blind scene. It seems like we're catching
>>> up faster and faster in that regard... Then there's another hurdle in
>>> the form of a brick wall that someone needs to batter down. I've
>>> started to understand why those who have been at this for years and
>>> even decades sometimes sound to a newbie a bit world-weary and
>>> cynical even though they keep at it. They know the possibilities but
>>> they also know how much it takes to turn them into some sort of
>reality.
>>>
>>> Hm... ViewPlus is a really good example and case study, I think, of
>>> what is possible when someone who sees a need and decides to fill the
>>> gap is able to pull together the resources and talent to make it
>>> work. There are a few others out there I hear referenced, as well,
>>> that have filled various gaps. I'm more fascinated by the math and
>science stuff, I guess.
>>>
>>> I agree that there are a number of existing projects now that one can
>>> get behind to contribute, too, by donating time or money. They're all
>>> important and all have their pros and cons. Nice to have that wealth
>>> of choice, actually. I also agree that new projects based on new
>>> ideas are great for those who can get them going. The notion of more
>>> competition for scarce resources is scary in a way, but isn't that
>>> how progress happens? Some projects will sound promising and fail
>badly, of course.
>>> Others will poop along. Some will do fantastically and create
>>> dramatic change for a lot of people as some have already and continue
>to do.
>>>
>>> I think the growing number of blind people in technical specialities
>>> will over time erode those dratted low expectations and negative
>>> attitudes, as well. It used to be a True Fact that women were
>>> incapable of learning math, after all. Now nobody understands who
>>> anybody could ever think that because it is so obviously not the
>>> case. It will take longer for the smaller minority of blind people,
>>> but the more who take on the challenges to compete and succeed, the
>>> more preponderance of evidence we will have on our side. Still, those
>>> bad attitudes made me feel jaded and world-weary the first time I
>>> heard them, and my attitude doesn't get any better hearing them again.
>Hmph!
>>>
>>> Tami
>>>
>>> On 09/16/2013 11:20 PM, I. C. Bray wrote:
>>>> Finally
>>>> A reasonable and astute reasoning!
>>>> OK, the fact is that just because no one can or does currently, does
>>>> not preclude the fact that we can or could in the future!
>>>> I am just glad there are smarter people than I out there that know.
>>>>
>>>> Anyone want to start a Publishing Company?  I'm not very busy theese
>>>> days!?
>>>> LOL!
>>>>
>>>> Ian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "sabra1023" <sabra1023 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics"
>>>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Cc: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics"
>>>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 3:46 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] books in accessible format
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> : It really isn't hard for publishing companies to make their work
>>>> accessible. It wouldn't just benefit blind people. These
>>>> accessibility features would benefit about 10% of the population.
>>>> People uses screen readers and electronic textbooks for other
>>>> reasons rather than just being blind. Some people have dyslexia.
>>>> Some people have cerebral palsy, even know they might be able to
>>>> see, their eyes might not be able to focus well enough on the text,
>>>> so they may need a screen reader as well. Some people might be able
>>>> to physically see the printed text, but they need additional access
>>>> because they are using a specialized keyboard or dictation software,
>>>> which means that they Soli need to navigate through the book with
>>>> keyboard only methods. It's true that after publisher has already
>>>> made a document, the editing to make it accessible can be quite
>>>> extensive, but if publishers think about accessibility at the
>>>> beginning, extensive editing won't be necessary. Further, the Nfb is
>>>> forwardin!
>>>> : g legislation called teach so that schools won't be able to
>>>> purchase an accessible materials. Therefore, it really would be in
>>>> the publisher's best interest to just conform. I believe the bill
>>>> will pass because lots of other organizations are already supporting
>>>> the Nfb. The publishers could still make a profit for their
>>>> accessible books and accompanying software if applicable. In fact,
>>>> the publishers are ensuring that they make less of a profit when
>>>> they don't make their products accessible. Maybe I'm wrong, but I
>>>> don't think there is any blindness organization that exists right
>>>> now that has the resources, personnel, and copyright permissions to
>>>> start their own accessible publishing company. The most effective
>>>> use of resources would be to get those people who want to join a
>>>> publishing company and have them volunteer for book share adding new
>>>> books and editing old books to increase accessibility. However, I
>>>> hope that in the future, all of this extra work won't even be
>>>> necess!
>>>> : ary because the publishers will have thought about all this ahead
>>>> of time and spirit lots of people hundreds of hours of heartache.
>>>> :
>>>> : On Sep 16, 2013, at 1:19 PM, "I. C. Bray" <i.c.bray at win.net> wrote:
>>>> :
>>>> : > John,
>>>> : > What I am getting at is not easilly said concisely
>>>> : > BasicalllyBasically, it should be a for profit Message -----
>>>> organization
>>>> : > who's mission is to provide a facility that employs blind,
>>>> vision impaired,
>>>> : > and sighted individuals to do standardization of accessibil
>>>> materials for
>>>> : > any and all other companies such as Text Book Publishers,
>>>> Electronics
>>>> : > Manufacturers, and any other "group" that wishes to produce
>>>> accessible
>>>> : > options for it's customers.
>>>> : > Rather than have every company attempt to make their products
>>>> accessible,
>>>> : > have the NFBPublishing company a "partner"  to get it done.
>>>> : >
>>>> : > The only criticism I have about APH is that they typically don't
>>>> do
>>>> : > extreemely up to date texts.  I find the majority of the
>>>> products to be
>>>> : > rather expensive... and being on fixed income makes that
>prohibitive.
>>>> : >
>>>> : >
>>>> : >
>>>> : > Instead of reinventing the weel, we make whatever wheel is
>>>> needed and ship
>>>> : > it to the customer.
>>>> : >
>>>> : > Ian
>>>> : >
>>>> : >
>>>> : >
>>>> : >
>>>> : >
>>>> : > From: "John G. Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
>>>> : > To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics"
>>>> : > <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>>>> : > Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 1:02 PM
>>>> : > Subject: Re: [Blindmath] books in accessible format
>>>> : >
>>>> : >
>>>> : > : I'm unclear on one thing though. Don't you think Learnng Ally
>>>> would love
>>>> : > : to be the company  you describe below only it's just not that
>easy?
>>>> : > : Learning Ally is a non-profit so maybe you're thinking a
>>>> for-profit
>>>> : > : company would be more effective? I'm not disputing that. I
>>>> don't know.
>>>> : > : I'm just not clear on what you are getting at.
>>>> : > :
>>>> : > : I wish I knew more about this stuff.  All I know is from what
>>>> I read on
>>>> : > : this list. There seems to be a lot of people working in
>>>> different
>>>> : > : directions. That seems to be the case in everything from
>>>> non-profits to
>>>> : > : software.  I am not aware of any actual duplicate projects but
>>>> there
>>>> : > : does seem to be a lot of overlap in all aspects of this problem.
>>>> And
>>>> it
>>>> : > : seems extremely difficult to get an understanding as to how
>>>> all the
>>>> : > : pieces fit together.
>>>> : > :
>>>> : > :
>>>> : > : On 09/16/13 10:18, I. C. Bray wrote:
>>>> : > : > NO, I'm not talking about for end-consumers.
>>>> : > : > I'm talking about products & vendors who are required to
>>>> release items,
>>>> : > : > publications, and electronics etc.
>>>> : > : > Instead of each individual company like Sony, Motorola, and
>>>> perhaps
>>>> : > Software
>>>> : > : > Developers...
>>>> : > : > The NFB-Publishing would be given printed materials or PDFs
>>>> or would be
>>>> : > : > responsible for reviewing a company's websites, and whatever
>>>> else for
>>>> : > : > functionality.
>>>> : > : >
>>>> : > : > Example:
>>>> : > : > Let's say MathWorks produces a new Calculus book.
>>>> : > : > Instead of them publishing the hardback text only, they
>>>> release
>>>> : > preliminary,
>>>> : > : > intermediate, and final drafts along with errata to my
>>>> hypothetical
>>>> : > : > publishing company.
>>>> : > : > Since by law, everything published for sighted people should
>>>> be
>>>> : > available
>>>> : > : > reasonably for blind people, NFBPublishing would either
>>>> OCR-Tag PDF
>>>> : > copies,
>>>> : > : > have them recorded in audio and get them published into
>>>> braille or just
>>>> : > BRF
>>>> : > : > formats.
>>>> : > : >
>>>> : > : > Then, Since the Publishing Company is producing the
>>>> material, and we
>>>> : > have
>>>> : > : > the means, technology, and the appropriate understanding of
>>>> what is best
>>>> : > : > needed, we do it all.
>>>> : > : > When a blind customer requires a full text in braille, then
>>>> the customer
>>>> : > : > pays for the textbook as normal, takes the ADA Card and
>>>> Receipt from the
>>>> : > : > book and submits it to the publisher or whatever, and then
>>>> the
>>>> : > : > Publisher/owner exchanges the Print book for the Accessible
>>>> Version, or
>>>> : > the
>>>> : > : > customer pays a small fee to keep the print copy and
>>>> receives the other
>>>> : > too.
>>>> : > : >
>>>> : > : >
>>>> : > : > Then NFB Publishing could manage textbook Exchanges, and
>>>> there would not
>>>> : > be
>>>> : > : > a huge need to print thousands of coppies, but the cost of
>>>> publishing
>>>> : > ANY
>>>> : > : > book is spread out to any and all purchases of the book thus
>>>> making it
>>>> : > : > easier on people like Me, Tami, and others to buy our
>>>> Physics & Linear
>>>> : > : > Analysis texts at a REASONABLE cost instead of the $75000
>per...
>>>> : > : >
>>>> : > : > Please do realize... this is just a brainstorming exercise
>>>> here...
>>>> I'm
>>>> : > : > thinking out loud and just seeing what others think too...
>>>> : > : >
>>>> : > : > The idea that I want/need a book in braille and it's nearly
>>>> impossible
>>>> : > to
>>>> : > : > find, and so costly to produce is silly.
>>>> : > : >
>>>> : > : > Often, hours upon hours of time from various Disability
>>>> Resource Centers
>>>> : > is
>>>> : > : > eaten up by producing an odd copy or two of accessible
>>>> material for only
>>>> : > a
>>>> : > : > small number of students... if those hours were freed-up and
>>>> the texts
>>>> : > ALL
>>>> : > : > managed throughout the publishing process, and a small
>>>> number published
>>>> : > : > centrally... I'm just thinking it might work!!
>>>> : > : >
>>>> : > : > Ian
>>>> : > : >
>>>> : > : >
>>>> : > : >
>>>> : > : >
>>>> : > : > ----- Original Message -----
>>>> : > : > From: "John G. Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
>>>> : > : > To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics"
>>>> : > : > <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>>>> : > : > Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 9:25 AM
>>>> : > : > Subject: [Blindmath] books in accessible format (was: Typing
>>>> in
>>>> : > : > NemethBraille)
>>>> : > : >
>>>> : > : >
>>>> : > : > : Do you know about Learning Ally and Bookshare? The company
>>>> you
>>>> : > describe
>>>> : > : > : doesn't sound very different from Learning Ally and some
>>>> of what
>>>> : > : > : Bookshare does would overlap as well. I let my Learning
>>>> Ally
>>>> : > membership
>>>> : > : > : expire 20 years ago. It was calledRFBD back then. But they
>>>> used to
>>>> : > send
>>>> : > : > : me textbooks in a digital format on diskette.  So they
>>>> might have
>>>> : > worked
>>>> : > : > : out the whole mathematical symbol thing by now. But I
>>>> wouldn't know.
>>>> : > : > : Bookshare operates under an exception in United States
>>>> copyright law.
>>>> : > So
>>>> : > : > : they don't have everything and not everything they have is
>>>> available
>>>> : > : > : internationally. Even so, it would probably be a lot
>>>> easier to with
>>>> : > one
>>>> : > : > : of these organizations to tweak their existing
>>>> infrastructure rather
>>>> : > : > : than start from scratch on your own.
>>>> : > : > :
>>>> : > : > :
>>>> : > : > : On 09/16/13 03:38, I. C. Bray wrote:
>>>> : > : > : > Michael,
>>>> : > : > : >
>>>> : > : > : > Is there any means by which NFB members could join
>>>> together and form
>>>> : > a
>>>> : > : > : > publishing company whereby we accept materials and
>>>> products and
>>>> : > produce
>>>> : > : > the
>>>> : > : > : > accessible materials for the originating manufacturers?
>>>> : > : > : > As an example,  Say NFB-Media were to either hire or
>>>> contract
>>>> : > : > organizations
>>>> : > : > : > who already produce accessible materials specifically
>>>> for the blind
>>>> : > and
>>>> : > : > : > would be paid by the Manufacturers for doing it for them?
>>>> : > : > : > This way, we the blind consumers are directly producing
>>>> what we
>>>> : > need.
>>>> : > : > Our
>>>> : > : > : > own standards of accessability are met, Companies are
>>>> given proven,
>>>> : > : > : > accessible materials to distribute as needed, and the
>>>> NFB-Publishing
>>>> : > are
>>>> : > : > : > granted royalty for the distribution of said working /
>>>> proven
>>>> : > materials,
>>>> : > : > and
>>>> : > : > : > Manufacturers  are able to concentrate on the
>>>> functionality while we
>>>> : > : > make
>>>> : > : > : > sure to communicate it appropriately.
>>>> : > : > : >
>>>> : > : > : > I mean, perhaps I am dreaming here, but is that really
>>>> too much to
>>>> : > : > manage?
>>>> : > : > : >
>>>> : > : > : > Rather than constantly be inopposition, be an active
>>>> means to a
>>>> : > : > solution.
>>>> : > : > : >
>>>> : > : > : > Ok... now... discuss.
>>>> : > : > : >
>>>> : > : > : > Respectfully,
>>>> : > : > : > Ian  C. Bray
>>>> : > : > : >
>>>> : > : > : >
>>>> : > : > : > ----- Original Message -----
>>>> : > : > : > From: "Michael Whapples" <mwhapples at aim.com>
>>>> : > : > : > To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics"
>>>> : > : > : > <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>>>> : > : > : > Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 3:45 AM
>>>> : > : > : > Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Typing in Nemeth Braille
>>>> : > : > : >
>>>> : > : > : >
>>>> : > : > : > :I am not sure I want to encourage just debate about
>>>> why, after all
>>>> : > : > : > : action would be better.
>>>> : > : > : > :
>>>> : > : > : > : One thing which is slightly shocking, certainly
>>>> concerning is that
>>>> : > the
>>>> : > : > : > : Coalition of e-reader manufacturers have sought a
>>>> waiver from the
>>>> : > FCC
>>>> : > : > to
>>>> : > : > : > : be exempt from the accessibility requirements of the
>>>> : > Communications
>>>> : > : > and
>>>> : > : > : > : Video Accessibility Act
>>>> (http://techpolicy.acm.org/blog/?p=3177).
>>>> : > I
>>>> : > : > : > : think we can all draw conclusions from this...
>>>> : > : > : > :
>>>> : > : > : > : I understand various organisations, including the NFB,
>>>> have
>>>> : > provided
>>>> : > : > : > : comments to the FCC.
>>>> : > : > : > :
>>>> : > : > : > : We all need to appreciate that math accessibility for
>>>> the blind is
>>>> : > : > : > : normally only a small concern out of many for any
>>>> individual
>>>> : > company
>>>> : > : > : > : involved in making technical documents accessible and
>>>> that for a
>>>> : > good
>>>> : > : > : > : solution it will require multiple companies to
>>>> cooperate. As an
>>>> : > : > example,
>>>> : > : > : > : just to read a PDF on your computer, it requires the
>>>> PDF reader
>>>> : > (eg.
>>>> : > : > : > : Adobe reader) to be made accessible, but that will
>>>> require
>>>> : > suitable
>>>> : > : > : > : support in the accessibility API of the platform it is
>>>> run on
>>>> : > (most
>>>> : > : > : > : likely Windows, so some support from Microsoft), and
>>>> then the
>>>> : > screen
>>>> : > : > : > : reader would need to support the math accessibility,
>>>> and then this
>>>> : > all
>>>> : > : > : > : will only work if the provider of the PDF document
>>>> actually
>>>> : > bothers to
>>>> : > : > : > : tag the document suitably. This is not to say math
>>>> accessibility
>>>> : > is
>>>> : > : > not
>>>> : > : > : > : important, but rather its not necessarily at the top
>>>> of their
>>>> : > lists of
>>>> : > : > : > : priorities and we all probably have a responsibility
>>>> to remind
>>>> : > them
>>>> : > : > that
>>>> : > : > : > : math accessibility is important and that it might be a
>>>> deciding
>>>> : > factor
>>>> : > : > : > : in your purchasing of software.
>>>> : > : > : > :
>>>> : > : > : > : May be as individuals we might have little affect, but
>>>> if colleges
>>>> : > and
>>>> : > : > : > : universities are faced with needing to make their
>>>> courses
>>>> : > accessible
>>>> : > : > to
>>>> : > : > : > : us as individuals, then their purchasing decisions may
>>>> be affected
>>>> : > and
>>>> : > : > : > : then that might be something significant to some of
>>>> these
>>>> : > : > : > : manufacturers/publishers.
>>>> : > : > : > :
>>>> : > : > : > : Michael Whapples
>>>> : > : > : > : On 16/09/2013 00:06, sabra1023 wrote:
>>>> : > : > : > : > These books can be made accessible in a digital
>>>> format for a lot
>>>> : > : > cheaper
>>>> : > : > : > then a hardcopy transcription, and maybe the publishers
>>>> even have it
>>>> : > the
>>>> : > : > : > books and an accessible format. However, if you try to
>>>> get the book
>>>> : > : > : > digitally from them, they will give you a PDF, which you
>>>> cannot
>>>> : > fully
>>>> : > : > : > access. I think that we are having these access issues
>>>> because a big
>>>> : > : > portion
>>>> : > : > : > of the cited population believes that blind people have
>>>> no right to
>>>> : > : > expect
>>>> : > : > : > success and Matt. I keep hearing all the time that math
>>>> is just too
>>>> : > : > visual
>>>> : > : > : > and that the best blind people can expect is to learn
>>>> basic algebra,
>>>> : > but
>>>> : > : > my
>>>> : > : > : > experience with Matt has shown me that math and itself
>>>> isn't visual.
>>>> : > : > Sighted
>>>> : > : > : > people might feel the most comfortable with a visual
>>>> representation,
>>>> : > but
>>>> : > : > : > that in no way means the subject itself is visual. Also,
>>>> I've known
>>>> : > : > plenty
>>>> : > : > : > of blind people who went way past calculus and use their
>>>> skills in
>>>> : > : > : > engineering and computer science. If publishers thought
>>>> about
>>>> : > : > accessibility
>>>> : > : > : > from the beginning, it wouldn't be extremely difficult
>>>> or costly to
>>>> : > make
>>>> : > : > : > sure that blind people as well as other populations can
>>>> have access
>>>> : > to
>>>> : > : > math
>>>> : > : > : > electronic text.
>>>> : > : > : > : >
>>>> : > : > : > : > On Sep 15, 2013, at 11:49 AM, Mike Jolls
>>>> <mrspock56 at hotmail.com>
>>>> : > : > wrote:
>>>> : > : > : > : >
>>>> : > : > : > : >> Does your software also back-translate it from
>>>> Nemeth back to
>>>> : > : > standard
>>>> : > : > : > English so that a teacher can get the completed homework
>>>> from the
>>>> : > : > student,
>>>> : > : > : > open it up inWord or some other standard application,
>>>> and read it in
>>>> : > : > symbols
>>>> : > : > : > they understand as a sighted person?
>>>> : > : > : > : >>
>>>> : > : > : > : >>
>>>> : > : > : > : >>> From: pmw at mega-data.com
>>>> : > : > : > : >>> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>>> : > : > : > : >>> Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 12:20:59 -0400
>>>> : > : > : > : >>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Typing in Nemeth Braille
>>>> : > : > : > : >>>
>>>> : > : > : > : >>> Getting the diagrams in tactile form (using
>>>> encapsulated
>>>> : > "swell"
>>>> : > : > : > paper) is a great help in math.  I have prepared tactile
>>>> diagrams
>>>> : > for
>>>> : > : > : > several VI students that I work with, and they have
>>>> found the
>>>> : > diagrams
>>>> : > : > to be
>>>> : > : > : > extremely helpful.  I put a small amount of Braille on
>>>> the diagrams
>>>> : > : > (just
>>>> : > : > : > enough to be able to create a separate legend with more
>>>> information
>>>> : > : > about
>>>> : > : > : > the diagram).
>>>> : > : > : > : >>>
>>>> : > : > : > : >
>>>> :
>>>> : _______________________________________________
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>>>
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>>>

>>--
>>---
>>John G. Heim, 608-263-4189, jheim at math.wisc.edu

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