[Blindmath] Univeristy Text Books missing Equation Notations or Pictures
Joseph Lee
joseph.lee22590 at gmail.com
Sun Apr 6 21:16:55 UTC 2014
Hi,
I can think of three major factors:
1. The best braille system for working with equations depends on the braille
code used in a country. Currently, it would be Nemeth in United States,
although UEB promises to fix this mess (and UEB cannot solve all problems
with transcriptions, particularly if a computer is involved). Part of the
problem is that Nemeth code is not represented well, so the book reviewers
may not know how to deal with mathematics in sciences in general (which is
connected with the second problem).
2. Majority of books on Bookshare are scanned. This contributes to possible
oversight when working with math and science titles (especially textbooks).
One solution is for the book reviewer to mark parts of the book as requiring
special treatment so Bookshare staff can write actual Nemeth/UEB code for
these equations (pictures are okay for now, since more and more books
include descriptions).
3. You might have noticed that some Unicode characters are brailled as hex
characters. This is due to some issues with LibLouis, the backbone of
Bookshare's braille translation software. As a contributor to LibLouis
project, I do know that we need to do something about better Nemeth markup
handling. Right now, my highest priority in LibLouis is to produce a working
implementation of UEB (implementing Unified English Braille support in
LibLouis is challenging, as we're running into limitations of our code and
braille table design; I can say that UEB will not fix all problems involving
math and sciences (although it promises to, but the biggest flaw is that UEB
is a heuristic table, so 100% automated braille translation with a computer
is impossible). If you'd like to discuss UEB implementation in LibLouis,
please write a message to LibLouis mailing list where you can talk to actual
UEB table implementers.
Cheers,
Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mary
Woodyard
Sent: Sunday, April 6, 2014 8:47 AM
To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
Subject: [Blindmath] Univeristy Text Books missing Equation Notations or
Pictures
Ty,
I read your post with great interest as Bookshare text books missing
pictures has been a problem that has frustrated me for a while. It looks
like if my son was a braille reader - he would also be missing equations.
This brings up the question - why did Bookshare leave the equations out in
the first place? If I were guessing - I would guess that whoever translated
them did not know what the equivalent Braille notations would be for the
equations. I think I remember seeing a board listed on this listserv which
gave the name and web address of the Braille notation experts for the
country.
Do you need to know the notation for the equations or do you already know
them and just need them in your book to illustrate the examples of how they
are applied in the world? It seems like you could send the formulas to this
Braille notation board if you need the notation for the formulas. I guess
what I am really wondering is why Bookshare can't do that to begin with?
Does anyone have any contacts at Bookshare?
For my son who is a high school junior, I am noticing several of the
colleges we have talked to use Bookshare. If the Bookshare College
textbooks are as incomplete as the high school ones - I am wondering why it
is okay? Who decided that Books don't need their pictures for the
electronic versions or notation of the equations in Braille format.
For the K-12 schools, there is a separate division of Bookshare - almost a
separate library of books that only one person per school district has
access to that has a more complete selection of textbooks that sometimes
include pictures. I believe (but am not sure) it is called NIMAC. However,
none of the colleges that I have visited seem to have that type of resource.
So - do you need help getting the notation for the equations as someone
reading this listserv could probably help you with that. Does anyone else
know who at Bookshare that we could try and get someone to coordinate with
to see why they are not listed to begin with? Finally, have you reported
the missing equations to Bookshare? I was missing some chapters in a book
and they were impressive in their efforts to track down the missing
information.
It seems to be a big enough problem though that maybe we should ask someone
at the NFB to see if there could be more effort put into creating complete
textbook conversions into accessible media.
Mary Woodyard
-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
blindmath-request at nfbnet.org
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2014 8:00 AM
To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
Subject: Blindmath Digest, Vol 93, Issue 6
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: looking for braille book (John Gardner)
2. blind mathematician/computer scientist (Jonathon Yaggie)
3. Re: blind mathematician/computer scientist (Ken Perry)
4. More Computer Questions (Arielle Silverman)
5. Re: More Computer Questions (Bhavya shah)
6. Re: More Computer Questions (Louis Maher)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2014 08:52:39 -0700
From: "John Gardner" <gardnerj at onid.orst.edu>
To: "'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'"
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] looking for braille book
Message-ID: <003e01cf50e7$12e6b250$38b416f0$@orst.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Who are the authors of University Physics? There are so many textbooks, I
never remember which name belongs to which. But I know at least a few of
the authors of many textbooks and might be able to get a Word file from them
with appropriate safeguards. There are several ways to read math in Word
files.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of D?niel
Hajas
Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2014 1:39 AM
To: tyler at tysdomain.com; 'Blind Math list for those interested in
mathematics'
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] looking for braille book
Hello,
While at the topic, I am supposed to use University Physics ed 13. After
some struggling the publishers were sok ind to give us the pdf version but
does not help a lot when it comes to more mathematical part.
Does anyone know about any accessible (electronic) edition of University
Physics.
Also are there some available Physics text books in electronic format where
I could also read the equations and not just the text... Basically for now I
have only lecture notes and workshop sheets as a reference but not really
any book.
Since I haven't got any study books I wouldn't mind anything such as audio
book, txt, latex whatever as long as it is not braille. So far I have books
only that are made for general public, so not in dept and without equations.
Bests,
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
Littlefield, Tyler
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2014 4:00 PM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
Subject: [Blindmath] looking for braille book
Hello:
Last semester, my DS office paid a student to convert a physics book for me.
He didn't do a very good job (probably because he was watching tv while he
did it), so it was super hard to read. This semester we found the book on
bookshare for a different course, but a lot of the equations are omitted.
Does anyone know if there exists somewhere a brailled version of University
Physics, 15th ed?
Thanks,
--
Take care,
Ty
http://tds-solutions.net
He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that
dares not reason is a slave.
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2014 11:06:46 -0500
From: Jonathon Yaggie <jyaggi2 at uic.edu>
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [Blindmath] blind mathematician/computer scientist
Message-ID:
<CAJ5uLU3dSeD4U6+LY2sActQViCQL+E5g8VktF06conaZmq=z4w at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Sorry is this is sort of off topic. I am trying to name a math/theoretical
computer science study group for VI/blind high schoolers. Convention here
is to name the group after a mathematician. I know a few mathematicians who
were blind or partial sighted but I am not finding any who did work in
mathematical computer science. I would welcome suggestions.
Jon Yaggie
EYH Volunteer Coordinator
UIC Mathematics
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2014 21:08:14 -0400
From: "Ken Perry" <kperry at blinksoft.com>
To: "'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'"
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] blind mathematician/computer scientist
Message-ID: <001a01cf5134$b0a9a1d0$11fce570$@blinksoft.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I don't think you can go wrong with Abraham nemeth who took Computer science
and probably did more for Math for the blind then any I can think of.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Nemeth
-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jonathon
Yaggie
Sent: Saturday, April 5, 2014 12:07 PM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
Subject: [Blindmath] blind mathematician/computer scientist
Sorry is this is sort of off topic. I am trying to name a math/theoretical
computer science study group for VI/blind high schoolers. Convention here
is to name the group after a mathematician. I know a few mathematicians who
were blind or partial sighted but I am not finding any who did work in
mathematical computer science. I would welcome suggestions.
Jon Yaggie
EYH Volunteer Coordinator
UIC Mathematics
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om
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2014 19:21:18 -0600
From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
To: Blind Academics Discussion List <blindacademics at mailman.rice.edu>
Cc: social-sciences-list at nfbnet.org, blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [Blindmath] More Computer Questions
Message-ID:
<CALAYQJAia-CEdoeNmro_Kx_Rr2VztQjb=b59zA100LFvxEqrKg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hi all,
I think I may have posted computer shopping questions earlier, but now I
have some more specific questions I'm hoping some of you can help with.
Sorry for the cross-posting.
I've decided to get a new device to replace my aging laptop. I am starting a
new job this summer and they will provide a PC for my office, but I want to
have something that is portable and that I can use to edit Microsoft Word,
Excel and PowerPoint files I create at work or get from colleagues.
I already have JAWS and an iPhone. If Office for iPhone is accessible, or if
it's possible to easily interact with Microsoft Office files using the Mac
applications (like Pages or Numbers) then I'd consider using my iPhone
instead of a laptop.
So my questions are:
(1) Is Office for iPhone accessible?
(2) How easy or complicated is it to edit MS Word files using Pages on a Mac
or iPhone?
(3) Does anyone have recommendations for modern Windows laptops that are
ultra-portable, like Ultrabooks or netbooks if they still exist?
(4) Which tablets work with JAWS?
Thanks,
Arielle
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2014 12:58:32 +0530
From: Bhavya shah <bhavya.shah125 at gmail.com>
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] More Computer Questions
Message-ID:
<CACHadJ32bNPWhVWomAZfWEdVW45xU+PtRA2=1tRLitn8wrpv=Q at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hi.
Note: Moderator Sir, I am responding to this thread because you have not yet
declared if it is of topic.
Firstly, I never knew that JAWS worked with Iphones. Thought that the IOS
screen reader was Voiceover.
Anyways, I would like to answer your third question.
Yes, certainly Notebook computers are available these days. I personally own
one which weighs 1.25 kg and a screen slightly more than 10 inches. It is
extremely portable but not the most powerful computer either. My laptop
model HP Mini 110.
Hope that helps.
On 4/6/14, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I think I may have posted computer shopping questions earlier, but now
> I have some more specific questions I'm hoping some of you can help
> with. Sorry for the cross-posting.
>
> I've decided to get a new device to replace my aging laptop. I am
> starting a new job this summer and they will provide a PC for my
> office, but I want to have something that is portable and that I can
> use to edit Microsoft Word, Excel and PowerPoint files I create at
> work or get from colleagues.
>
> I already have JAWS and an iPhone. If Office for iPhone is accessible,
> or if it's possible to easily interact with Microsoft Office files
> using the Mac applications (like Pages or Numbers) then I'd consider
> using my iPhone instead of a laptop.
>
> So my questions are:
> (1) Is Office for iPhone accessible?
> (2) How easy or complicated is it to edit MS Word files using Pages on
> a Mac or iPhone?
> (3) Does anyone have recommendations for modern Windows laptops that
> are ultra-portable, like Ultrabooks or netbooks if they still exist?
> (4) Which tablets work with JAWS?
>
> Thanks,
> Arielle
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/bhavya.shah125%
> 40gmail.com
> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
--
Failures are stepping stones to success.
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah
E-mail: bhavya.shah125 at gmail.com
Skype Username: bhavya.09
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2014 05:48:38 -0500
From: "Louis Maher" <ljmaher at swbell.net>
To: "'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'"
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] More Computer Questions
Message-ID: <000601cf5185$c4c94a20$4e5bde60$@swbell.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hello,
I have recently purchased the Microsoft Surface Pro 2 with a 256 GB SSD for
$1300. This machine is small, light, fast, and powerful. You can carry it
in one hand. If you pair it with a Braille display, you will have a
powerful combination. It runs Windows 8.1 and Outlook 2013. While Outlook
has minor accessibility issues, generally you will not have any issues. I
use JAWS 15 and a Humanware Brailliant Display Bluetooth connected to the
computer.
Regards
Louis Maher
Phone 713-444-7838
E-mail ljmaher at swbell.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bhavya
shah
Sent: Sunday, April 6, 2014 2:29 AM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] More Computer Questions
Hi.
Note: Moderator Sir, I am responding to this thread because you have not yet
declared if it is of topic.
Firstly, I never knew that JAWS worked with Iphones. Thought that the IOS
screen reader was Voiceover.
Anyways, I would like to answer your third question.
Yes, certainly Notebook computers are available these days. I personally own
one which weighs 1.25 kg and a screen slightly more than 10 inches. It is
extremely portable but not the most powerful computer either. My laptop
model HP Mini 110.
Hope that helps.
On 4/6/14, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I think I may have posted computer shopping questions earlier, but now
> I have some more specific questions I'm hoping some of you can help
> with. Sorry for the cross-posting.
>
> I've decided to get a new device to replace my aging laptop. I am
> starting a new job this summer and they will provide a PC for my
> office, but I want to have something that is portable and that I can
> use to edit Microsoft Word, Excel and PowerPoint files I create at
> work or get from colleagues.
>
> I already have JAWS and an iPhone. If Office for iPhone is accessible,
> or if it's possible to easily interact with Microsoft Office files
> using the Mac applications (like Pages or Numbers) then I'd consider
> using my iPhone instead of a laptop.
>
> So my questions are:
> (1) Is Office for iPhone accessible?
> (2) How easy or complicated is it to edit MS Word files using Pages on
> a Mac or iPhone?
> (3) Does anyone have recommendations for modern Windows laptops that
> are ultra-portable, like Ultrabooks or netbooks if they still exist?
> (4) Which tablets work with JAWS?
>
> Thanks,
> Arielle
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/bhavya.shah125%
> 40gmail.com
> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
--
Failures are stepping stones to success.
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah
E-mail: bhavya.shah125 at gmail.com
Skype Username: bhavya.09
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End of Blindmath Digest, Vol 93, Issue 6
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