[Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
Suzanne Germano
sgermano at asu.edu
Tue Dec 1 02:44:24 UTC 2015
This is interesting because I was/am in the same boat. I have not had this
dream career since I was 6 or 12 or 16. Yet, I have found that many do.
On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 7:01 PM, Amanda Lacy via Blindmath <
blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Does anybody ever really know what they want to do when they grow up?
> I've met a few who say they knew from when they were little kids, but
> those are exceedingly rare. Asking me that same question over and over
> and over again did not help me out one bit. All I ever did was go to
> school, go home, go to school, go home...I had no knowledge of the
> world and had never been exposed to computer programming either. Being
> exposed to real things is much more useful than being repeatedly asked
> hypothetical questions.
>
> Amanda
>
> On 11/30/15, Sarah Jevnikar via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > Great points! Also someone brought up parents as a detriment. As a camp
> > counsellor for blind kids this past summer, I can’t agree more. There are
> > plenty of parents who hesitate to teach their kids to tie their own shoes
> > let alone think of a career…
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Jonathon Yaggie [mailto:jyaggi2 at uic.edu]
> > Sent: November-30-15 7:59 PM
> > To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> > Cc: Sarah Jevnikar
> > Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
> >
> >
> >
> > I have been opting out of this conversation, because I am knee-deep in
> > postdoc applications. However, after reading Sarah's comments, I would
> like
> > to second her thoughts regarding career/educational planning.
> >
> >
> >
> > I am on the boarder of being legally blind; therefore, I am fairly high
> > functioning. With that said, low expectations by educators including my
> TVI
> > were disheartening at the least. All my aptitude tests were consistent
> - I
> > should be a scientist or researcher. Yet my TVI refused to see me after
> age
> > 15, I did not show appreciation for her talking down to me. Her primary
> > focus before that had been "assignments", most of which were essays on
> how
> > I could better integrate with "normal" students. Academics were next
> > considered or discussed. I had not academic accommodations until
> college.
> > That is not to say I did not have an IEP, simply that the only thing on
> it
> > was that I see a social worker.
> >
> >
> >
> > With hindsight, I should have pursued medical research. However, this
> was
> > not even considered an option. Also i realize now, we do a disservice
> to
> > many students both sighted and visually impaired, by having low
> > expectations. My son who has the same condition, complains endlessly
> about
> > my high expectations. :)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Jon Yaggie
> >
> > UIC Mathematics
> >
> > Expanding Your Horizons Chicago Coordinator
> >
> > Keep up with EYH Chicago on Facebook
> > <https://www.facebook.com/ExpandingYourHorizonsChicago> and Twitter
> > <http://www.twitter.com/@EYH_chicago>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 6:40 PM, Sarah Jevnikar via Blindmath
> > <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >
> > This is an interesting discussion topic.
> >
> > My TVI in high school did the following for me:
> > - find titles of texts prior to my taking the relevant courses and
> ordering
> > them
> > - create Braille handouts and tests with diagrams as needed (usually with
> > fabric paint)
> > - transcribe my tests orally as I Brailled them in Nemeth and she
> couldn't
> > read it
> >
> > I went into first year without knowing how much I needed to do myself:
> pick
> > courses early enough to order textbooks early enough so they could be
> > transcribed; order them once instructors gave me their info (which could
> be
> > slow in coming); translate my homework from Nemeth to text (I use
> Nemetex as
> > needed but probably should learn LaTeX but struggle with the confusing
> > literature). Fortunately I had contacts who could help with Brailling
> tests
> > and diagrams for those tests, but otherwise I would have been out of
> luck. I
> > still don't get tactile diagrams unless I ask a classmate, teaching
> > assistant or instructor to help make them. Thankfully I was used to
> > transcribing tests orally when software failed or wasn't available.
> >
> > The trick is too that in high school, no student has to find their own
> texts
> > or reading materials. So all students face that hurdle. But blind
> students
> > have greater difficulty in the sense that the readings they need must be
> > scanned and hopefully are readable at that point. It's a lengthy process
> and
> > I still don't have a good solution.
> >
> > I might point out too that my choice of university program was dictated
> by
> > the accommodations I thought I could get. I might have studied biology
> but
> > feared the lab setting as a totlally blind student.
> >
> > In short, I would encourage every TVI to try to get their students to
> think
> > about what they want to do as a career, then help them plan for it.
> Biology?
> > Sure! Just talk to someone at a local university to get ideas for
> > accommodations well in advance. Have students do as much as they can
> without
> > TVI assistance - in the university and real world settings they'll have
> > advocates perhaps, but not anyone to help with the day-to-day aspects of
> > their education, unless they're able to get funding to pay them.
> >
> > I hope this made some sense,
> > Sarah
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Amanda
> > Lacy via Blindmath
> > Sent: November-30-15 6:38 PM
> > To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> >
> > Cc: Amanda Lacy
> > Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
> >
> > I want a job so that everything will stop changing every semester. I
> intend
> > to work as a programmer, doing I have no idea what. Apparently I was
> > supposed to explore that in school, but I've learned not to explore in
> > school.
> >
> > Several people tell me to avoid environments like agile programming since
> > for the most part I can't work in groups. I'm now aware of some things to
> > avoid, but not the things I should look for.
> >
> > Amanda
> >
> > On 11/30/15, Vincent Martin via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >> I, along with other friends, actually have had much better
> >> accessibility in the private sector! I am fifty-one years old and my
> >> Ph.D is my fifth different STEM degree. I have had many, many, jobs
> >> in the private sector, state and local government, the Federal
> >> government, and as a private consultant. The private sector normally
> >> understands accessibility better and lawsuits are much more damaging
> >> to a private corporation. I can say this from the fact that I also
> >> have served as an expert witness in fourteen cases so far. The worst
> >> offenders have been schools and the Federal "Government. I also serve
> >> as an accessibility consultant for companies and accessibility is a
> >> really hot topic right now. I make $2100 a month as a graduate
> >> research assistant and made three times that amount last year
> >> assisting "private" companies on making systems and jobs as accessible
> >> as possible. I literally worked two total weeks during the breaks
> >> from my semesters on these projects. One client who can't be named is
> >> very good at accommodating its employees as they age as a middle-level
> >> manger that leaves to early retirement takes about a million dollars
> >> out the door in institutional knowledge. Their biggest problem (they
> >> are a Fortune 200
> >> company) is getting people to self-disclose their disability. When I
> >> showed them back in 2004 how much money they were losing to lost
> >> productivity to hidden disabilities, they were floored. They have
> >> spent over ten years attempting to keep their employees and to hire
> >> qualified employees with disabilities. In 2005, I convinced them not
> >> to start a customer service program for blind employees. Instead,
> >> they try to hire very qualified employs, disability or not, and then
> >> provide them with the best support possible.
> >>
> >> That blind engineer that got her M.B.A. at Drexel lost her vision
> >> while she was working for a private employer. The State Voc Rehab
> >> people were unable to solve her accessibility problem, but we blind
> >> people did. I, along with a Freedom Scientific tech support
> >> specialist, solved the interface problem with her mainframe over the
> >> phone. She was re-hired and my research lab at the Veterans
> >> Administration "stole" her from her. She had a pain in the butt
> >> getting all of her equipment, such as an oscilloscope that attached to
> >> a computer. The Feds said that it was not assistive technology,
> >> because anyone could use it. Our supervisor bought it out of his
> >> discretionary funds. At both of her private sector jobs, the
> >> assistive technology showed up even when she did not ask for it. When
> >> she left for the Feds, she hated to give up her Braille Note PK. It,
> > along with all types of devices would just be delivered out of the blue.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> >> Jeremy via Blindmath
> >> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 3:43 PM
> >> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
> >> Cc: Jeremy
> >> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
> >>
> >> While all this is great, what are these blind PhD students going to do
> >> when they join the workforce and all these teams of individuals are no
> >> longer available to insure accessibility of work related materials.
> >> Believe me, you're not going to sick the government on your private
> sector
> > employer.
> >>
> >> Now having left university life long ago, it is amazing to me how
> >> different the real world really functions as opposed to the
> >> pseudo-utopia in these educational institutions.
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> >> vincent martin via Blindmath
> >> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 12:03 PM
> >> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
> >> Cc: vincent martin
> >> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
> >>
> >> Amanda,
> >> I will get back to the TVI topic, but wanted to lend you an arm of
> > support!
> >> The way you expressed yourself is the way in which so many blind
> >> students feel each and every quarter/semester. Don't let your bad
> >> experiences stop you from going further if you so desire. I am sure
> >> we can find a graduate program at a school that would gladly have and
> >> accommodate you! If a school starts to accommodate students and gets
> >> ones that are successful, then they start expecting them to show up.
> >> That has started to occur at North Carolina State where they have had
> >> two blind Ph.D. students in Computer Science recently. Maybe we can
> >> start a list/database of schools that have done a good job of making
> >> STEM related curriculum accessible. That would be a great benefit to
> >> students considering which schools to attend in the future.
> >>
> >> I am the first totally blind student in the history of Georgia Tech.
> >> Although things were terrible when I got here as far as accessibility
> >> is concerned, I have done whatever I can to open the doors to the ones
> >> that follow me. That included filing complaints with the Department
> >> of Education. Things got much better once the Feds showed up! We
> >> even have a new disability access policy that has been publically
> >> circulated for open comment before it becomes standard institute
> >> policy. Last year I encountered a visually impaired student at the
> >> Empowering Blind students in STEM workshop sponsored by DO-IT at the
> >> University of Washington. He was interested in the Ph.D. program in
> >> Biomedical Engineering here. He was accepted and enrolled this Fall and
> > all of his documents are accessible!
> >>
> >> We now have a professional on campus who is responsible for making
> >> sure our documents are converted into the format we need in a timely
> >> manner. PDF documents can be converted with OCR software to a
> >> readable format either Word or .PDF and she will even re-format
> >> tables into readable formats. We can get descriptions of images and
> >> or tactile diagrams created. Those are usually outsourced to AMAC
> >> Accessible Solutions which is an organization based on campus that
> >> makes content accessible to all colleges and universities in the state
> >> system and has partner institutions all over the country. I have seen
> >> them get an entire college level Math book transcribed into Braille in
> >> less than a month. They now also convert documents into Math ML as
> >> well. I am getting two Statistics books converted right now.
> >>
> >> The network of people that you meet can also be of assistance,
> >> depending upon the situation. I was fortunate that my advisor was an
> >> acquaintance of mine before I applied. His lab does research into
> >> assistive technology and the other students in the lab just help me
> >> because it is the right thing to do. One of them is the person that
> >> created the descriptions for Zack at Mississippi state a few weeks
> >> ago. The others love to have me in a class with them as they know
> >> that the PDF documents for studying will now be readable! Sighted
> >> students get crappy stuff (bad scan of a bad copy) and many now use the
> > text to speech engine in Acrobat Reader to read their
> >> materials. . My fellow lab mates also created the first totally
> >> accessible
> >> fantasy football league just so I could play with them. After using
> >> up the ESPN seed grant, they did it as a side project and did anything
> >> to make it relevant to our research goals. We have had one
> >> publication, one CSUN presentation, and two more current journal
> >> submissions concerning the data collected from our projects and
> >> studies. These are the same people that know to ask me if I have a
> >> text copy of any book that they are using for research. They know
> >> that many hundred page printed book on their desk is not nearly as
> >> useful as the electronic one I have. Sometimes, we have the print
> >> book on the table next to a computer with the electronic one when we are
> > writing papers and citing our references.
> >>
> >> It is a constant fight for most of us, but there Aare some schools
> >> that do such a great job that is actually surprising. I had a former
> >> student just graduate from the M.B.A. program at Drexel as an almost
> >> totally blind student and the school went out of their way to
> >> accommodate her. They even ended up contracting with a second company
> >> to insure her Statistics and Economics books were accessible to her.
> >> She got accessible .PDF's and tactile maps and graduated on time. She
> >> had completed a degree in Electrical Engineering when she was sighted,
> >> but she says that the accommodations at Drexel, especially from her
> >> professors, is what made her graduate program enjoyable.
> >>
> >> I spoke with a very low-vision TVI friend of mine yesterday that
> >> wishes she had a student that was STEM interested or was at the level
> >> that she had to provide some of the things we have been discussing.
> >> She moves between six middle and high schools in our county and does
> >> not have any of her students who have gotten past pre-Calculus. The
> >> higher functioning ones are usually low-vision and the rest stop at
> basic
> > high school Math and Science.
> >>
> >> On the other hand, I have another TVI in a county North of Atlanta
> >> that has assisted in making every STEM related course in high school
> > accessible.
> >> She
> >> has seen students go on to the University of Georgia in Genetics and
> >> to Duke, Emory, and Wake Forrest in other STEM related fields.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> >> Amanda Lacy via Blindmath
> >> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 1:18 PM
> >> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> >> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> >> Cc: Amanda Lacy <lacy925 at gmail.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
> >>
> >>> University ought to be enjoyable and not be like standing on a beach
> >>> watching a tidal wave coming, especially for those that can't see it.
> >>
> >> But that's exactly how it is, at least for me. Just as I'm starting to
> >> gain my balance again I'm knocked over by another wave. People are
> >> telling me I should explore, have fun, and enjoy the challenge, but
> >> all I have time for is survival. I experience no joy, not anymore.
> >> Meanwhile, the sighted ones are all talking about what they want to
> >> take next semester like it's some great adventure. It's always some
> >> course I couldn't dream of taking because I can't read the textbooks.
> >>
> >> Yes, I'm fully aware of LaTeX. Usually I have to beg for it, and I
> >> don't always get it. And y'all should see some of the barely-usable
> >> LaTeX I've received. It wasn't much better than no LaTeX at all.
> >>
> >> There are also plenty of CS courses about graphics, but none about
> sound.
> >> They poison everything with graphics.
> >>
> >> I'm graduating with a bachelors in CS in May, and I don't think I'm
> >> ever going back.
> >>
> >> Sorry for the reality, guys.
> >>
> >> Amanda
> >>
> >> On 11/30/15, Godfrey, Jonathan via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
> >>> Hello,
> >>>
> >>> I'd like all professionals in the business of helping students ask
> >>> their former students what things they actively did that left them
> >>> unprepared for university. This is not really covered by the
> >>> questions posed in Maureen's message.
> >>>
> >>> All too often I am observing 18-20 year old blind people lack
> >>> independence and confidence and therefore struggle at university. The
> >>> support mechanisms they had on hand during high school are no longer
> >>> there; the disability support systems are not ready to help them; and
> >>> the educators they must work with have even less idea. The issues are
> >>> even further compounded in the STEM fields where so many additional
> >>> skills
> >> are needed.
> >>>
> >>> In particular, I'd like to have seen more of the students I've come
> >>> across gain experience preparing their own homework during high
> >>> school so that they have experience before they get to university
> >>> where there are so many other new things to have to deal with.
> >>>
> >>> University ought to be enjoyable and not be like standing on a beach
> >>> watching a tidal wave coming, especially for those that can't see it.
> >>>
> >>> Jonathan
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> >>> derek riemer via Blindmath
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, 1 December 2015 5:41 a.m.
> >>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> >>> Cc: derek riemer
> >>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
> >>>
> >>> Hi,
> >>> If your student is planning to pursue a stem degree, then introduce
> >>> them to la tex a bit. They should learn it asap as a college student
> >>> because many stem materials may be more accessible in la tex format.
> >>> Also, ensure that they know nemeth braille. It is insane how many
> >>> people I know don't know nemeth braille, and it is essential to have
> >> tactile feedback of the math.
> >>> Also, having them transcribe math to you as well as having them use a
> >>> tool like nemetex will help them ensure they are prepared for the
> >>> process of converting math in college. I don't know anyone in a
> >>> college setting who can have a tvi or someone interline their
> >>> homework. It is essential to learn how to verbally transcribe
> >>> homework, especially in more complex courses. You can mostly survive
> >>> calc 1 and 2 with a tool like nemetex, but in upper level courses
> >>> such as linear algebra, I found it necessary to use paper with
> >>> braille to even understand the material. Some of it is spacial enough
> >>> that the tech isn't quite ready to present the math correctly. Also,
> >>> without a transcriber to transcribe (verbally I read them what I
> >>> wanted them to
> >>> write) math in linear algebra, it meant at least 3 hours of typing
> >>> out the matrices in la tex. This is compared to half an hour reading
> >>> it to someone who was skilled at writing that level of math.
> >>> Hth.
> >>>
> >>> On 11/30/2015 8:07 AM, Lewicki, Maureen via Blindmath wrote:
> >>>> Good morning! I am a TVI of some great and capable students. Would
> >>>> you do me a favor? Could you reflect back on your high school years
> >>>> and let me
> >>>> know:
> >>>>
> >>>> Did you have a TVI supporting you?
> >>>> What did he/she do to prepare you for college and career?
> >>>> What do you regret the TVI did not do to prepare you?
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks for your input! My career is not long enough to make all my
> >>>> own mistakes! I would rather learn from others' mistakes and
> strengths!!
> >>>>
> >>>> Maureen Murphy Lewicki
> >>>> Teacher of the Visually Impaired
> >>>> Bethlehem Central School District
> >>>> Bethlehem High School
> >>>> 700 Delaware Ave
> >>>> Delmar, NY 12054
> >>>> http://www.bethlehemschools.org<http://www.bethlehemschools.org/>
> >>>> Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through
> >>>> experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened,
> >>>> ambition inspired, and success
> >>>> achieved.<http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/30186.html> Helen
> >>>> Keller
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Blindmath mailing list
> >>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >>>> for
> >>>> Blindmath:
> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%
> >>>> <
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%25>
> >>>>
> >>>> 4
> >>>> 0 colorado.edu BlindMath Gems can be found at
> >>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> -
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Derek Riemer
> >>>
> >>> * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
> >>> * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
> >>> * Open source enthusiast.
> >>> * Member of Bridge Cu
> >>> * Avid skiier.
> >>>
> >>> Websites:
> >>> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.drupalgardens.com>
> >>> Non-proffessional website.
> >>> <http://derekriemer.pythonanywhere.com/personal>
> >>> Awesome little hand built weather app that rocks!
> >>> <http://derekriemer.pythonanywhere.com/weather>
> >>>
> >>> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu
> >>> <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
> >>> Phone: (303) 906-2194 <tel:%28303%29%20906-2194>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Blindmath mailing list
> >>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> Blindmath:
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/a.j.godfrey%40
> >>> m
> >>> assey.ac.nz
> >>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> >>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Blindmath mailing list
> >>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> Blindmath:
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/lacy925%40gmai
> >>> l
> >>> .com
> >>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> >>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Blindmath mailing list
> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
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> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> Blindmath:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/vincent.martin%
> >> <
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/vincent.martin%25>
> >>
> >> 40gate
> >> ch.edu
> >> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> >> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Blindmath mailing list
> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> Blindmath:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/jeremy.richards
> >> 7%40gm
> >> ail.com
> >> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> >> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Blindmath mailing list
> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> Blindmath:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/vincent.martin%
> >> <
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/vincent.martin%25>
> >>
> >> 40gate
> >> ch.edu
> >> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> >> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Blindmath mailing list
> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> Blindmath:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/lacy925%40gmail
> >> .com
> >> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> >> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > Blindmath:
> >
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40mail
> > .utoronto.ca
> >
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at
> > <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
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> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > Blindmath:
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> > BlindMath Gems can be found at
> > <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
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