[Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?

Tue Dec 1 13:56:56 UTC 2015

Change is part of the game with computers. You'd do yourself a great 
service by wrapping your mind around the fact that something new is 
always going to be right around the corner.

I am the linux systems admin for the Universify of Wisconsin Department 
of Mathematics. Linux administration is nice for blind people because it 
is almost all done remotely and via text interfaces. I do a lot of perl, 
bash, and php programming as well.

PS: I disagree with the advice about working for government. Maybe 
administrative agencies are different. But working for a university is 
great.

On 11/30/2015 05:38 PM, Amanda Lacy via Blindmath wrote:
> I want a job so that everything will stop changing every semester. I
> intend to work as a programmer, doing I have no idea what. Apparently
> I was supposed to explore that in school, but I've learned not to
> explore in school.
>
> Several people tell me to avoid environments like agile programming
> since for the most part I can't work in groups. I'm now aware of some
> things to avoid, but not the things I should look for.
>
> Amanda
>
> On 11/30/15, Vincent Martin via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> I, along with other friends,  actually have had much better accessibility
>> in
>> the private sector!  I am fifty-one years old and my Ph.D is my fifth
>> different STEM degree.  I have had many, many, jobs in the private sector,
>> state and local government, the Federal government, and as a private
>> consultant.  The private sector normally understands accessibility better
>> and lawsuits are much more damaging to a private corporation.  I can say
>> this from the fact that I also have served as an expert witness in fourteen
>> cases so far.  The worst offenders have been schools and the Federal
>> "Government.  I also serve as an accessibility consultant for companies and
>> accessibility is a really hot topic right now.  I make $2100 a month as a
>> graduate research assistant and made three times that amount last year
>> assisting "private" companies on making systems and jobs as accessible as
>> possible.  I literally worked two total weeks during the breaks from my
>> semesters on these projects.  One client who can't be named is very good at
>> accommodating its employees as they age as a middle-level manger that
>> leaves
>> to early retirement takes about a million dollars out the door in
>> institutional knowledge.  Their biggest problem (they are a Fortune 200
>> company) is getting people to self-disclose their disability.  When I
>> showed
>> them back in 2004 how much money they were losing to lost productivity to
>> hidden disabilities, they were floored.  They have spent over ten years
>> attempting to keep their employees and to hire qualified employees with
>> disabilities.  In 2005, I convinced them not to start a customer service
>> program for blind employees.  Instead, they try to hire very qualified
>> employs, disability or not, and then provide them with the best support
>> possible.
>>
>> That blind engineer that got her M.B.A. at Drexel lost her vision while she
>> was working for a private employer.  The State Voc Rehab people were unable
>> to solve her accessibility problem, but we blind people did.  I, along with
>> a Freedom Scientific tech support specialist, solved the interface problem
>> with her mainframe over the phone.  She was re-hired and my research lab at
>> the Veterans Administration "stole" her from her.  She had a pain in the
>> butt getting all of her equipment, such as an oscilloscope that attached to
>> a computer.  The Feds said that it was not assistive technology, because
>> anyone could use it.  Our supervisor bought it  out of his discretionary
>> funds.  At both of her private sector jobs, the assistive technology showed
>> up even when she did not ask for it.  When she left for the Feds, she hated
>> to give up her Braille Note PK.  It, along with all types of devices would
>> just be delivered out of the blue.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jeremy
>> via Blindmath
>> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 3:43 PM
>> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
>> Cc: Jeremy
>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
>>
>> While all this is great, what are these blind PhD students going to do when
>> they join the workforce and all these teams of individuals are no longer
>> available to insure accessibility of work related materials. Believe me,
>> you're not going to sick the government on your private sector employer.
>>
>> Now having left university life long ago, it is amazing to me how different
>> the real world really functions as opposed to the pseudo-utopia in these
>> educational institutions.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of vincent
>> martin via Blindmath
>> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 12:03 PM
>> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
>> Cc: vincent martin
>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
>>
>> Amanda,
>> I will get back to the TVI topic, but wanted to lend you an arm of support!
>> The way you expressed yourself is the way in which so many blind students
>> feel each and every quarter/semester.  Don't let your bad experiences stop
>> you from going further if you so desire.  I am sure we can find a graduate
>> program at a school that would gladly have and accommodate you!  If a
>> school
>> starts to accommodate students and gets ones that are successful, then they
>> start expecting them to show up.  That has started to occur at North
>> Carolina State where they have had two blind Ph.D. students in Computer
>> Science recently.  Maybe we can start a list/database of schools that have
>> done a good job of making STEM related curriculum accessible.  That would
>> be
>> a great benefit to students considering which schools to attend in the
>> future.
>>
>> I am the first totally blind student in the history of Georgia Tech.
>> Although things were terrible when I got here as far as accessibility is
>> concerned, I have done whatever I can to open the doors to the ones that
>> follow me.  That included filing complaints with the Department of
>> Education.  Things got much better once the Feds showed up!  We even have a
>> new disability access policy that has been publically circulated for open
>> comment before it becomes standard institute policy.  Last year I
>> encountered a visually impaired student at the Empowering Blind students in
>> STEM workshop sponsored by DO-IT at the University of Washington.  He was
>> interested in the Ph.D. program in Biomedical Engineering here.  He was
>> accepted and enrolled this Fall and all of his documents are accessible!
>>
>> We now have a professional on campus who is responsible for making sure our
>> documents are converted into the format we need in a timely manner.  PDF
>> documents can be converted with OCR software to a readable format either
>> Word or .PDF  and she will even re-format tables into readable formats.  We
>> can get descriptions of images and or tactile diagrams created.  Those are
>> usually outsourced to AMAC Accessible Solutions which is an organization
>> based on campus that makes content accessible to all colleges and
>> universities in the state system and has partner institutions all over the
>> country.  I have seen them get an entire college level Math book
>> transcribed
>> into Braille in less than a month.  They now also convert documents into
>> Math ML as well.  I am getting two Statistics books converted right now.
>>
>> The network of people that you meet can also be of assistance, depending
>> upon the situation.  I was fortunate that my advisor was an acquaintance of
>> mine before I applied.  His lab does research into assistive technology and
>> the other students in the lab just help me because it is the right thing to
>> do.  One of them is the person that created the descriptions for Zack at
>> Mississippi state a few weeks ago.  The others love to have me in a class
>> with them as they know that the PDF documents for studying will now be
>> readable!  Sighted students get crappy stuff (bad scan of a bad copy) and
>> many now use the text to speech engine in Acrobat Reader to read their
>> materials. .   My fellow lab mates also created the first totally
>> accessible
>> fantasy football league just so I could play with them.  After using up the
>> ESPN seed grant, they did it as a side project and did anything to make it
>> relevant to our research goals.  We have had one publication, one CSUN
>> presentation, and two more current journal submissions concerning the data
>> collected from our projects and studies.  These are the same people that
>> know to ask me if I have a text copy of any book that they are using for
>> research.  They know that many hundred page printed book on their desk is
>> not nearly as useful as the electronic one I have.  Sometimes, we have the
>> print book on the table next to a computer with the electronic one when we
>> are writing papers and citing our references.
>>
>> It is a constant fight for most of us, but there Aare some schools that do
>> such a great job that is actually surprising.  I had a former student just
>> graduate from the M.B.A. program at Drexel as an almost totally blind
>> student and the school went out of their way to accommodate her.  They even
>> ended up contracting with a second company to insure her Statistics and
>> Economics books were accessible to her.  She got accessible .PDF's and
>> tactile maps and graduated on time.  She had completed a degree in
>> Electrical Engineering when she was sighted, but she says that the
>> accommodations at Drexel, especially from her professors, is what made her
>> graduate program enjoyable.
>>
>> I spoke with a very low-vision TVI friend of mine yesterday that wishes she
>> had a student that was STEM interested or was at the level that she had to
>> provide some of the things we have been discussing.  She moves between six
>> middle and high schools in our county and does not have any of her students
>> who have gotten past pre-Calculus.  The higher functioning ones are usually
>> low-vision and the rest stop at basic high school Math and Science.
>>
>> On the other hand, I have another TVI in a county North of Atlanta that has
>> assisted in making every STEM related course in high school accessible.
>> She
>> has seen students go on to the University of Georgia in Genetics and to
>> Duke, Emory, and Wake Forrest in other STEM related fields.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Amanda
>> Lacy via Blindmath
>> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 1:18 PM
>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Amanda Lacy <lacy925 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
>>
>>> University ought to be enjoyable and not be like standing on a beach
>>> watching a tidal wave coming, especially for those that can't see it.
>> But that's exactly how it is, at least for me. Just as I'm starting to gain
>> my balance again I'm knocked over by another wave. People are telling me I
>> should explore, have fun, and enjoy the challenge, but all I have time for
>> is survival. I experience no joy, not anymore.
>> Meanwhile, the sighted ones are all talking about what they want to take
>> next semester like it's some great adventure. It's always some course I
>> couldn't dream of taking because I can't read the textbooks.
>>
>> Yes, I'm fully aware of LaTeX. Usually I have to beg for it, and I don't
>> always get it. And y'all should see some of the barely-usable LaTeX I've
>> received. It wasn't much better than no LaTeX at all.
>>
>> There are also plenty of CS courses about graphics, but none about sound.
>> They poison everything with graphics.
>>
>> I'm graduating with a bachelors in CS in May, and I don't think I'm ever
>> going back.
>>
>> Sorry for the reality, guys.
>>
>> Amanda
>>
>> On 11/30/15, Godfrey, Jonathan via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I'd like all professionals in the business of helping students ask
>>> their former students what things they actively did that left them
>>> unprepared for university. This is not really covered by the questions
>>> posed in Maureen's message.
>>>
>>> All too often I am observing 18-20 year old blind people lack
>>> independence and confidence and therefore struggle at university. The
>>> support mechanisms they had on hand during high school are no longer
>>> there; the disability support systems are not ready to help them; and
>>> the educators they must work with have even less idea. The issues are
>>> even further compounded in the STEM fields where so many additional
>>> skills
>> are needed.
>>> In particular, I'd like to have seen more of the students I've come
>>> across gain experience preparing their own homework during high school
>>> so that they have experience before they get to university where there
>>> are so many other new things to have to deal with.
>>>
>>> University ought to be enjoyable and not be like standing on a beach
>>> watching a tidal wave coming, especially for those that can't see it.
>>>
>>> Jonathan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>> derek riemer via Blindmath
>>> Sent: Tuesday, 1 December 2015 5:41 a.m.
>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>> Cc: derek riemer
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>> If your student is planning to pursue a stem degree, then introduce
>>> them to la tex a bit. They should learn it asap as a college student
>>> because many stem materials may be more accessible in la tex format.
>>> Also, ensure that they know nemeth braille. It is insane how many
>>> people I know don't know nemeth braille, and it is essential to have
>> tactile feedback of the math.
>>> Also, having them transcribe math to you as well as having them use a
>>> tool like nemetex will help them ensure they are prepared for the
>>> process of converting math in college. I don't know anyone in a
>>> college setting who can have a tvi or someone interline their
>>> homework. It is essential to learn how to verbally transcribe
>>> homework, especially in more complex courses. You can mostly survive
>>> calc 1 and 2 with a tool like nemetex, but in upper level courses such
>>> as linear algebra, I found it necessary to use paper with braille to
>>> even understand the material. Some of it is spacial enough that the
>>> tech isn't quite ready to present the math correctly. Also, without a
>>> transcriber to transcribe (verbally I read them what I wanted them to
>>> write) math in linear algebra, it meant at least 3 hours of typing out
>>> the matrices in la tex. This is compared to half an hour reading it to
>>> someone who was skilled at writing that level of math.
>>> Hth.
>>>
>>> On 11/30/2015 8:07 AM, Lewicki, Maureen via Blindmath wrote:
>>>> Good morning!  I am a TVI of some great and capable students. Would
>>>> you do me a favor? Could you reflect back on your high school years
>>>> and let me
>>>> know:
>>>>
>>>> Did you have a TVI supporting you?
>>>> What did he/she do to prepare you for college and career?
>>>> What do you regret the TVI did not do to prepare you?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your input! My career is not long enough to make all my
>>>> own mistakes! I would rather learn from others' mistakes and strengths!!
>>>>
>>>> Maureen Murphy Lewicki
>>>> Teacher of the Visually Impaired
>>>> Bethlehem Central School District
>>>> Bethlehem High School
>>>> 700 Delaware Ave
>>>> Delmar, NY 12054
>>>> http://www.bethlehemschools.org<http://www.bethlehemschools.org/>
>>>> Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through
>>>> experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened,
>>>> ambition inspired, and success
>>>> achieved.<http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/30186.html> Helen
>>>> Keller
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>> --
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>>      Derek Riemer
>>>
>>>    * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
>>>    * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
>>>    * Open source enthusiast.
>>>    * Member of Bridge Cu
>>>    * Avid skiier.
>>>
>>> Websites:
>>> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.drupalgardens.com>
>>> Non-proffessional website.
>>> <http://derekriemer.pythonanywhere.com/personal>
>>> Awesome little hand built weather app that rocks!
>>> <http://derekriemer.pythonanywhere.com/weather>
>>>
>>> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu
>>> <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
>>> Phone: (303) 906-2194
>>>
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>>>
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