[Blindmath] Need to understand how a College Disability Resource Center is organized
Mary Woodyard
marywoodyard at comcast.net
Tue Dec 1 14:08:27 UTC 2015
This is an interesting topic that has many complexities. I wanted to
respond to Anna and Maureen. I am a parent who has a college freshman so he
has just left the high school world and entered the college world. Like
Vincent who is at Georgia Tech, he is lucky at the University of Georgia to
have a great disability department with a lot of support. One thing I would
encourage any high school student to do is research the main colleges in
their state they would be going to (as well as out of state colleges they
are interested) and find out what accommodations are available in each
college. Part of this answer is dictated by the size of their disability
staff. My son narrowed his search down to an out of state college (FSU)
which has about 6 defined disability support positions on their
organizational chart and the University of Georgia which has close to 30
people supporting their students.
One thing every TVI can do with their college bound students (regardless of
major) is to take that journey with them and know what accommodations are
available in colleges in their state at the minimum. What I noticed as a
parent is that when my son left middle school we had three IEPs just dealing
with using extended time on assignments because no one in the high school
really understand what accommodations were appropriate for a visually
impaired learner in high school. The facilitator for the high school was
there but she was also ignorant of what accommodations were appropriate for
a visually impaired learner in high school. The TVI had just come from a
Daily Living Skills position in the school for the blind and was not very
academic and was not helpful. What seemed to help was getting College Board
accommodations (which I initiated as the school as his TVI did not expect
him to take the same college bound tests that everyone other student did)
going into high school.
By having College Board and later ACT accommodations in place allowing
readers, extended time, large print, etc) the high school became comfortable
with allowing my son to use these accommodations while in high school. The
main push back was not from school administration - they helped my son - it
was from Special Ed with low expectations or misguided intentions that my
son using a screen or human reader was not fair to the sighted students. It
has been interesting to me that none of his high school TVIs have asked to
see what actual college accommodations he can use. I will of course send
them to the high school when I have time. The county Special Ed department
was extremely supportive of my son and also of him using appropriate
accommodations. Through this process he learned to self-advocate and has
done well in college.
I can't speak to the lack of services in other colleges, but urge any
student to explore what the services are and how they are delivered as it
can be time consuming to schedule your tests, fill out the Alternative Media
Forms and pick it up as it comes in. However, I have nothing but praise for
my son's college and his college Disability Resource Counselor. For this
reason, they make 12 hours full time for a disability student which at first
my son did not want to use - going into second semester though he is going
with 13 hours and is happy. If a high school TVI works with their students
to understand their state and whatever other college disability programs may
be appropriate - it will be a win win for not only the current student - but
all other students coming along.
For STEM specific support find out if they offer note takers, lab
assistants, assistive technology with the latest calculators like the Orion
84 Graphing Calculator which UGA ordered for my son this summer. What other
technology do they offer? Do they train students in how to use it? His
school has an AT lab where if he is needing more support with a topic he can
go and they will help him accommodate. They allow him to print 100 copies a
week and more if he needs to enlarge an entire set of classwork. They keep
11 by 17 paper in their printer tray so it is easy for him and another
visually impaired student. One big difference between high school and
college for him is all his enlarging in high school was on the copy machines
and in college it is by printer. How will you get braille or tactile
graphics - these are all questions a TVI and student should be working
through in the transition section of the IEP before a student goes to high
school. How do you schedule readers for Math tests? In his case, his
college drc counselor has to hire and schedule them. Very different than
high school.
In his world, the Disability Resource Center is a focus place he goes for
his services. I wish High school had been setup like this. Frequently he
was as stressed about where he was taking a standardized test more than
taking the test. Our high school had no centralized testing center.
Understanding what is available in the colleges around you and where your
student wants to go should predicate the training they get on how to use it.
Just my comments.
Mary Woodyard
-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
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Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 7:00 AM
To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
Subject: Blindmath Digest, Vol 113, Issue 2
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: how did your TVIs assist you? (Jonathon Yaggie)
2. Re: how did your TVIs assist you? (Suzanne Germano)
3. Re: how did your TVIs assist you? (Sarah Jevnikar)
4. Re: how did your TVIs assist you? (Amanda Lacy)
5. Re: how did your TVIs assist you? (Suzanne Germano)
6. Re: how did your TVIs assist you? (Jon Yaggie)
7. Re: how did your TVIs assist you? (Sabra Ewing)
8. Re: how did your TVIs assist you? (annajee82 at gmail.com)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 18:59:27 -0600
From: Jonathon Yaggie <jyaggi2 at uic.edu>
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
Message-ID:
<CAJ5uLU0g38EOMMmM5=3kP+x8Lu0YZr-hKA5ERDCjt0JyW1h6iQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
I have been opting out of this conversation, because I am knee-deep in
postdoc applications. However, after reading Sarah's comments, I would
like to second her thoughts regarding career/educational planning.
I am on the boarder of being legally blind; therefore, I am fairly high
functioning. With that said, low expectations by educators including my
TVI were disheartening at the least. All my aptitude tests were consistent
- I should be a scientist or researcher. Yet my TVI refused to see me
after age 15, I did not show appreciation for her talking down to me. Her
primary focus before that had been "assignments", most of which were
essays on how I could better integrate with "normal" students. Academics
were next considered or discussed. I had not academic accommodations until
college. That is not to say I did not have an IEP, simply that the only
thing on it was that I see a social worker.
With hindsight, I should have pursued medical research. However, this was
not even considered an option. Also i realize now, we do a disservice to
many students both sighted and visually impaired, by having low
expectations. My son who has the same condition, complains endlessly about
my high expectations. :)
Jon Yaggie
UIC Mathematics
Expanding Your Horizons Chicago Coordinator
Keep up with EYH Chicago on Facebook
<https://www.facebook.com/ExpandingYourHorizonsChicago> and Twitter
<http://www.twitter.com/@EYH_chicago>
On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 6:40 PM, Sarah Jevnikar via Blindmath <
blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> This is an interesting discussion topic.
>
> My TVI in high school did the following for me:
> - find titles of texts prior to my taking the relevant courses and
ordering
> them
> - create Braille handouts and tests with diagrams as needed (usually with
> fabric paint)
> - transcribe my tests orally as I Brailled them in Nemeth and she couldn't
> read it
>
> I went into first year without knowing how much I needed to do myself:
pick
> courses early enough to order textbooks early enough so they could be
> transcribed; order them once instructors gave me their info (which could
be
> slow in coming); translate my homework from Nemeth to text (I use Nemetex
> as
> needed but probably should learn LaTeX but struggle with the confusing
> literature). Fortunately I had contacts who could help with Brailling
tests
> and diagrams for those tests, but otherwise I would have been out of luck.
> I
> still don't get tactile diagrams unless I ask a classmate, teaching
> assistant or instructor to help make them. Thankfully I was used to
> transcribing tests orally when software failed or wasn't available.
>
> The trick is too that in high school, no student has to find their own
> texts
> or reading materials. So all students face that hurdle. But blind students
> have greater difficulty in the sense that the readings they need must be
> scanned and hopefully are readable at that point. It's a lengthy process
> and
> I still don't have a good solution.
>
> I might point out too that my choice of university program was dictated by
> the accommodations I thought I could get. I might have studied biology but
> feared the lab setting as a totlally blind student.
>
> In short, I would encourage every TVI to try to get their students to
think
> about what they want to do as a career, then help them plan for it.
> Biology?
> Sure! Just talk to someone at a local university to get ideas for
> accommodations well in advance. Have students do as much as they can
> without
> TVI assistance - in the university and real world settings they'll have
> advocates perhaps, but not anyone to help with the day-to-day aspects of
> their education, unless they're able to get funding to pay them.
>
> I hope this made some sense,
> Sarah
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Amanda
> Lacy via Blindmath
> Sent: November-30-15 6:38 PM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> Cc: Amanda Lacy
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
>
> I want a job so that everything will stop changing every semester. I
intend
> to work as a programmer, doing I have no idea what. Apparently I was
> supposed to explore that in school, but I've learned not to explore in
> school.
>
> Several people tell me to avoid environments like agile programming since
> for the most part I can't work in groups. I'm now aware of some things to
> avoid, but not the things I should look for.
>
> Amanda
>
> On 11/30/15, Vincent Martin via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > I, along with other friends, actually have had much better
> > accessibility in the private sector! I am fifty-one years old and my
> > Ph.D is my fifth different STEM degree. I have had many, many, jobs
> > in the private sector, state and local government, the Federal
> > government, and as a private consultant. The private sector normally
> > understands accessibility better and lawsuits are much more damaging
> > to a private corporation. I can say this from the fact that I also
> > have served as an expert witness in fourteen cases so far. The worst
> > offenders have been schools and the Federal "Government. I also serve
> > as an accessibility consultant for companies and accessibility is a
> > really hot topic right now. I make $2100 a month as a graduate
> > research assistant and made three times that amount last year
> > assisting "private" companies on making systems and jobs as accessible
> > as possible. I literally worked two total weeks during the breaks
> > from my semesters on these projects. One client who can't be named is
> > very good at accommodating its employees as they age as a middle-level
> > manger that leaves to early retirement takes about a million dollars
> > out the door in institutional knowledge. Their biggest problem (they
> > are a Fortune 200
> > company) is getting people to self-disclose their disability. When I
> > showed them back in 2004 how much money they were losing to lost
> > productivity to hidden disabilities, they were floored. They have
> > spent over ten years attempting to keep their employees and to hire
> > qualified employees with disabilities. In 2005, I convinced them not
> > to start a customer service program for blind employees. Instead,
> > they try to hire very qualified employs, disability or not, and then
> > provide them with the best support possible.
> >
> > That blind engineer that got her M.B.A. at Drexel lost her vision
> > while she was working for a private employer. The State Voc Rehab
> > people were unable to solve her accessibility problem, but we blind
> > people did. I, along with a Freedom Scientific tech support
> > specialist, solved the interface problem with her mainframe over the
> > phone. She was re-hired and my research lab at the Veterans
> > Administration "stole" her from her. She had a pain in the butt
> > getting all of her equipment, such as an oscilloscope that attached to
> > a computer. The Feds said that it was not assistive technology,
> > because anyone could use it. Our supervisor bought it out of his
> > discretionary funds. At both of her private sector jobs, the
> > assistive technology showed up even when she did not ask for it. When
> > she left for the Feds, she hated to give up her Braille Note PK. It,
> along with all types of devices would just be delivered out of the blue.
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> > Jeremy via Blindmath
> > Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 3:43 PM
> > To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
> > Cc: Jeremy
> > Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
> >
> > While all this is great, what are these blind PhD students going to do
> > when they join the workforce and all these teams of individuals are no
> > longer available to insure accessibility of work related materials.
> > Believe me, you're not going to sick the government on your private
> sector
> employer.
> >
> > Now having left university life long ago, it is amazing to me how
> > different the real world really functions as opposed to the
> > pseudo-utopia in these educational institutions.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> > vincent martin via Blindmath
> > Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 12:03 PM
> > To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
> > Cc: vincent martin
> > Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
> >
> > Amanda,
> > I will get back to the TVI topic, but wanted to lend you an arm of
> support!
> > The way you expressed yourself is the way in which so many blind
> > students feel each and every quarter/semester. Don't let your bad
> > experiences stop you from going further if you so desire. I am sure
> > we can find a graduate program at a school that would gladly have and
> > accommodate you! If a school starts to accommodate students and gets
> > ones that are successful, then they start expecting them to show up.
> > That has started to occur at North Carolina State where they have had
> > two blind Ph.D. students in Computer Science recently. Maybe we can
> > start a list/database of schools that have done a good job of making
> > STEM related curriculum accessible. That would be a great benefit to
> > students considering which schools to attend in the future.
> >
> > I am the first totally blind student in the history of Georgia Tech.
> > Although things were terrible when I got here as far as accessibility
> > is concerned, I have done whatever I can to open the doors to the ones
> > that follow me. That included filing complaints with the Department
> > of Education. Things got much better once the Feds showed up! We
> > even have a new disability access policy that has been publically
> > circulated for open comment before it becomes standard institute
> > policy. Last year I encountered a visually impaired student at the
> > Empowering Blind students in STEM workshop sponsored by DO-IT at the
> > University of Washington. He was interested in the Ph.D. program in
> > Biomedical Engineering here. He was accepted and enrolled this Fall and
> all of his documents are accessible!
> >
> > We now have a professional on campus who is responsible for making
> > sure our documents are converted into the format we need in a timely
> > manner. PDF documents can be converted with OCR software to a
> > readable format either Word or .PDF and she will even re-format
> > tables into readable formats. We can get descriptions of images and
> > or tactile diagrams created. Those are usually outsourced to AMAC
> > Accessible Solutions which is an organization based on campus that
> > makes content accessible to all colleges and universities in the state
> > system and has partner institutions all over the country. I have seen
> > them get an entire college level Math book transcribed into Braille in
> > less than a month. They now also convert documents into Math ML as
> > well. I am getting two Statistics books converted right now.
> >
> > The network of people that you meet can also be of assistance,
> > depending upon the situation. I was fortunate that my advisor was an
> > acquaintance of mine before I applied. His lab does research into
> > assistive technology and the other students in the lab just help me
> > because it is the right thing to do. One of them is the person that
> > created the descriptions for Zack at Mississippi state a few weeks
> > ago. The others love to have me in a class with them as they know
> > that the PDF documents for studying will now be readable! Sighted
> > students get crappy stuff (bad scan of a bad copy) and many now use the
> text to speech engine in Acrobat Reader to read their
> > materials. . My fellow lab mates also created the first totally
> > accessible
> > fantasy football league just so I could play with them. After using
> > up the ESPN seed grant, they did it as a side project and did anything
> > to make it relevant to our research goals. We have had one
> > publication, one CSUN presentation, and two more current journal
> > submissions concerning the data collected from our projects and
> > studies. These are the same people that know to ask me if I have a
> > text copy of any book that they are using for research. They know
> > that many hundred page printed book on their desk is not nearly as
> > useful as the electronic one I have. Sometimes, we have the print
> > book on the table next to a computer with the electronic one when we are
> writing papers and citing our references.
> >
> > It is a constant fight for most of us, but there Aare some schools
> > that do such a great job that is actually surprising. I had a former
> > student just graduate from the M.B.A. program at Drexel as an almost
> > totally blind student and the school went out of their way to
> > accommodate her. They even ended up contracting with a second company
> > to insure her Statistics and Economics books were accessible to her.
> > She got accessible .PDF's and tactile maps and graduated on time. She
> > had completed a degree in Electrical Engineering when she was sighted,
> > but she says that the accommodations at Drexel, especially from her
> > professors, is what made her graduate program enjoyable.
> >
> > I spoke with a very low-vision TVI friend of mine yesterday that
> > wishes she had a student that was STEM interested or was at the level
> > that she had to provide some of the things we have been discussing.
> > She moves between six middle and high schools in our county and does
> > not have any of her students who have gotten past pre-Calculus. The
> > higher functioning ones are usually low-vision and the rest stop at
basic
> high school Math and Science.
> >
> > On the other hand, I have another TVI in a county North of Atlanta
> > that has assisted in making every STEM related course in high school
> accessible.
> > She
> > has seen students go on to the University of Georgia in Genetics and
> > to Duke, Emory, and Wake Forrest in other STEM related fields.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> > Amanda Lacy via Blindmath
> > Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 1:18 PM
> > To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> > <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> > Cc: Amanda Lacy <lacy925 at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
> >
> >> University ought to be enjoyable and not be like standing on a beach
> >> watching a tidal wave coming, especially for those that can't see it.
> >
> > But that's exactly how it is, at least for me. Just as I'm starting to
> > gain my balance again I'm knocked over by another wave. People are
> > telling me I should explore, have fun, and enjoy the challenge, but
> > all I have time for is survival. I experience no joy, not anymore.
> > Meanwhile, the sighted ones are all talking about what they want to
> > take next semester like it's some great adventure. It's always some
> > course I couldn't dream of taking because I can't read the textbooks.
> >
> > Yes, I'm fully aware of LaTeX. Usually I have to beg for it, and I
> > don't always get it. And y'all should see some of the barely-usable
> > LaTeX I've received. It wasn't much better than no LaTeX at all.
> >
> > There are also plenty of CS courses about graphics, but none about
sound.
> > They poison everything with graphics.
> >
> > I'm graduating with a bachelors in CS in May, and I don't think I'm
> > ever going back.
> >
> > Sorry for the reality, guys.
> >
> > Amanda
> >
> > On 11/30/15, Godfrey, Jonathan via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> I'd like all professionals in the business of helping students ask
> >> their former students what things they actively did that left them
> >> unprepared for university. This is not really covered by the
> >> questions posed in Maureen's message.
> >>
> >> All too often I am observing 18-20 year old blind people lack
> >> independence and confidence and therefore struggle at university. The
> >> support mechanisms they had on hand during high school are no longer
> >> there; the disability support systems are not ready to help them; and
> >> the educators they must work with have even less idea. The issues are
> >> even further compounded in the STEM fields where so many additional
> >> skills
> > are needed.
> >>
> >> In particular, I'd like to have seen more of the students I've come
> >> across gain experience preparing their own homework during high
> >> school so that they have experience before they get to university
> >> where there are so many other new things to have to deal with.
> >>
> >> University ought to be enjoyable and not be like standing on a beach
> >> watching a tidal wave coming, especially for those that can't see it.
> >>
> >> Jonathan
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> >> derek riemer via Blindmath
> >> Sent: Tuesday, 1 December 2015 5:41 a.m.
> >> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> >> Cc: derek riemer
> >> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >> If your student is planning to pursue a stem degree, then introduce
> >> them to la tex a bit. They should learn it asap as a college student
> >> because many stem materials may be more accessible in la tex format.
> >> Also, ensure that they know nemeth braille. It is insane how many
> >> people I know don't know nemeth braille, and it is essential to have
> > tactile feedback of the math.
> >> Also, having them transcribe math to you as well as having them use a
> >> tool like nemetex will help them ensure they are prepared for the
> >> process of converting math in college. I don't know anyone in a
> >> college setting who can have a tvi or someone interline their
> >> homework. It is essential to learn how to verbally transcribe
> >> homework, especially in more complex courses. You can mostly survive
> >> calc 1 and 2 with a tool like nemetex, but in upper level courses
> >> such as linear algebra, I found it necessary to use paper with
> >> braille to even understand the material. Some of it is spacial enough
> >> that the tech isn't quite ready to present the math correctly. Also,
> >> without a transcriber to transcribe (verbally I read them what I
> >> wanted them to
> >> write) math in linear algebra, it meant at least 3 hours of typing
> >> out the matrices in la tex. This is compared to half an hour reading
> >> it to someone who was skilled at writing that level of math.
> >> Hth.
> >>
> >> On 11/30/2015 8:07 AM, Lewicki, Maureen via Blindmath wrote:
> >>> Good morning! I am a TVI of some great and capable students. Would
> >>> you do me a favor? Could you reflect back on your high school years
> >>> and let me
> >>> know:
> >>>
> >>> Did you have a TVI supporting you?
> >>> What did he/she do to prepare you for college and career?
> >>> What do you regret the TVI did not do to prepare you?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for your input! My career is not long enough to make all my
> >>> own mistakes! I would rather learn from others' mistakes and
> strengths!!
> >>>
> >>> Maureen Murphy Lewicki
> >>> Teacher of the Visually Impaired
> >>> Bethlehem Central School District
> >>> Bethlehem High School
> >>> 700 Delaware Ave
> >>> Delmar, NY 12054
> >>> http://www.bethlehemschools.org<http://www.bethlehemschools.org/>
> >>> Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through
> >>> experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened,
> >>> ambition inspired, and success
> >>> achieved.<http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/30186.html> Helen
> >>> Keller
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Blindmath mailing list
> >>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >>> for
> >>> Blindmath:
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%
> >>> 4
> >>> 0 colorado.edu BlindMath Gems can be found at
> >>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >>
> >> --
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> -
> >> --
> >>
> >>
> >> Derek Riemer
> >>
> >> * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
> >> * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
> >> * Open source enthusiast.
> >> * Member of Bridge Cu
> >> * Avid skiier.
> >>
> >> Websites:
> >> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.drupalgardens.com>
> >> Non-proffessional website.
> >> <http://derekriemer.pythonanywhere.com/personal>
> >> Awesome little hand built weather app that rocks!
> >> <http://derekriemer.pythonanywhere.com/weather>
> >>
> >> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu
> >> <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
> >> Phone: (303) 906-2194
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Blindmath mailing list
> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
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> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> Blindmath:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/a.j.godfrey%40
> >> m
> >> assey.ac.nz
> >> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> >> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Blindmath mailing list
> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
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> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> Blindmath:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/lacy925%40gmai
> >> l
> >> .com
> >> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> >> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
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> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > Blindmath:
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> > 40gate
> > ch.edu
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at
> > <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >
> >
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> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > Blindmath:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/jeremy.richards
> > 7%40gm
> > ail.com
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at
> > <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
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> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > Blindmath:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/vincent.martin%
> > 40gate
> > ch.edu
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at
> > <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
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> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > Blindmath:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/lacy925%40gmail
> > .com
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at
> > <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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> .utoronto.ca
> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
>
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> BlindMath Gems can be found at <
> http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 18:12:41 -0700
From: Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu>
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
Message-ID:
<CAF=_avdaAS5ShRR6Z35igshi3Xu3zC3aG1Dq0BTAcqphMJRzvg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Amanda
Shoot me an email sgermano at asu.edu
I am graduating on Dec 14th with a BS in Computer Science. I am legally
blind. I did my internship at USAA and was offered a full-time position in
January. They have two totally blind employees. One started there as a
programmer 27 years ago. They also have another employee who is losing his
vision.
I agree on Agile but only if they do pair programming even with me being
able to use ZoomText I have not found a way to do pair programming. Even
though some areas at USAA use pair programming most do not. I worked on my
own project in Java then even still have some mainframe applications.
as a female CS major you should be attending the Grace Hopper convention if
you are not. A huge career fair for both internships and full-time and they
are all looking for diversity.
Suzanne
On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 4:38 PM, Amanda Lacy via Blindmath <
blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> I want a job so that everything will stop changing every semester. I
> intend to work as a programmer, doing I have no idea what. Apparently
> I was supposed to explore that in school, but I've learned not to
> explore in school.
>
> Several people tell me to avoid environments like agile programming
> since for the most part I can't work in groups. I'm now aware of some
> things to avoid, but not the things I should look for.
>
> Amanda
>
> On 11/30/15, Vincent Martin via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > I, along with other friends, actually have had much better
accessibility
> > in
> > the private sector! I am fifty-one years old and my Ph.D is my fifth
> > different STEM degree. I have had many, many, jobs in the private
> sector,
> > state and local government, the Federal government, and as a private
> > consultant. The private sector normally understands accessibility
better
> > and lawsuits are much more damaging to a private corporation. I can say
> > this from the fact that I also have served as an expert witness in
> fourteen
> > cases so far. The worst offenders have been schools and the Federal
> > "Government. I also serve as an accessibility consultant for companies
> and
> > accessibility is a really hot topic right now. I make $2100 a month as
a
> > graduate research assistant and made three times that amount last year
> > assisting "private" companies on making systems and jobs as accessible
as
> > possible. I literally worked two total weeks during the breaks from my
> > semesters on these projects. One client who can't be named is very good
> at
> > accommodating its employees as they age as a middle-level manger that
> > leaves
> > to early retirement takes about a million dollars out the door in
> > institutional knowledge. Their biggest problem (they are a Fortune 200
> > company) is getting people to self-disclose their disability. When I
> > showed
> > them back in 2004 how much money they were losing to lost productivity
to
> > hidden disabilities, they were floored. They have spent over ten years
> > attempting to keep their employees and to hire qualified employees with
> > disabilities. In 2005, I convinced them not to start a customer service
> > program for blind employees. Instead, they try to hire very qualified
> > employs, disability or not, and then provide them with the best support
> > possible.
> >
> > That blind engineer that got her M.B.A. at Drexel lost her vision while
> she
> > was working for a private employer. The State Voc Rehab people were
> unable
> > to solve her accessibility problem, but we blind people did. I, along
> with
> > a Freedom Scientific tech support specialist, solved the interface
> problem
> > with her mainframe over the phone. She was re-hired and my research lab
> at
> > the Veterans Administration "stole" her from her. She had a pain in the
> > butt getting all of her equipment, such as an oscilloscope that attached
> to
> > a computer. The Feds said that it was not assistive technology, because
> > anyone could use it. Our supervisor bought it out of his discretionary
> > funds. At both of her private sector jobs, the assistive technology
> showed
> > up even when she did not ask for it. When she left for the Feds, she
> hated
> > to give up her Braille Note PK. It, along with all types of devices
> would
> > just be delivered out of the blue.
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Jeremy
> > via Blindmath
> > Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 3:43 PM
> > To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
> > Cc: Jeremy
> > Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
> >
> > While all this is great, what are these blind PhD students going to do
> when
> > they join the workforce and all these teams of individuals are no longer
> > available to insure accessibility of work related materials. Believe me,
> > you're not going to sick the government on your private sector employer.
> >
> > Now having left university life long ago, it is amazing to me how
> different
> > the real world really functions as opposed to the pseudo-utopia in these
> > educational institutions.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> vincent
> > martin via Blindmath
> > Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 12:03 PM
> > To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
> > Cc: vincent martin
> > Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
> >
> > Amanda,
> > I will get back to the TVI topic, but wanted to lend you an arm of
> support!
> > The way you expressed yourself is the way in which so many blind
students
> > feel each and every quarter/semester. Don't let your bad experiences
> stop
> > you from going further if you so desire. I am sure we can find a
> graduate
> > program at a school that would gladly have and accommodate you! If a
> > school
> > starts to accommodate students and gets ones that are successful, then
> they
> > start expecting them to show up. That has started to occur at North
> > Carolina State where they have had two blind Ph.D. students in Computer
> > Science recently. Maybe we can start a list/database of schools that
> have
> > done a good job of making STEM related curriculum accessible. That
would
> > be
> > a great benefit to students considering which schools to attend in the
> > future.
> >
> > I am the first totally blind student in the history of Georgia Tech.
> > Although things were terrible when I got here as far as accessibility is
> > concerned, I have done whatever I can to open the doors to the ones that
> > follow me. That included filing complaints with the Department of
> > Education. Things got much better once the Feds showed up! We even
> have a
> > new disability access policy that has been publically circulated for
open
> > comment before it becomes standard institute policy. Last year I
> > encountered a visually impaired student at the Empowering Blind students
> in
> > STEM workshop sponsored by DO-IT at the University of Washington. He
was
> > interested in the Ph.D. program in Biomedical Engineering here. He was
> > accepted and enrolled this Fall and all of his documents are accessible!
> >
> > We now have a professional on campus who is responsible for making sure
> our
> > documents are converted into the format we need in a timely manner. PDF
> > documents can be converted with OCR software to a readable format either
> > Word or .PDF and she will even re-format tables into readable formats.
> We
> > can get descriptions of images and or tactile diagrams created. Those
> are
> > usually outsourced to AMAC Accessible Solutions which is an organization
> > based on campus that makes content accessible to all colleges and
> > universities in the state system and has partner institutions all over
> the
> > country. I have seen them get an entire college level Math book
> > transcribed
> > into Braille in less than a month. They now also convert documents into
> > Math ML as well. I am getting two Statistics books converted right now.
> >
> > The network of people that you meet can also be of assistance, depending
> > upon the situation. I was fortunate that my advisor was an acquaintance
> of
> > mine before I applied. His lab does research into assistive technology
> and
> > the other students in the lab just help me because it is the right thing
> to
> > do. One of them is the person that created the descriptions for Zack at
> > Mississippi state a few weeks ago. The others love to have me in a
class
> > with them as they know that the PDF documents for studying will now be
> > readable! Sighted students get crappy stuff (bad scan of a bad copy)
and
> > many now use the text to speech engine in Acrobat Reader to read their
> > materials. . My fellow lab mates also created the first totally
> > accessible
> > fantasy football league just so I could play with them. After using up
> the
> > ESPN seed grant, they did it as a side project and did anything to make
> it
> > relevant to our research goals. We have had one publication, one CSUN
> > presentation, and two more current journal submissions concerning the
> data
> > collected from our projects and studies. These are the same people that
> > know to ask me if I have a text copy of any book that they are using for
> > research. They know that many hundred page printed book on their desk
is
> > not nearly as useful as the electronic one I have. Sometimes, we have
> the
> > print book on the table next to a computer with the electronic one when
> we
> > are writing papers and citing our references.
> >
> > It is a constant fight for most of us, but there Aare some schools that
> do
> > such a great job that is actually surprising. I had a former student
> just
> > graduate from the M.B.A. program at Drexel as an almost totally blind
> > student and the school went out of their way to accommodate her. They
> even
> > ended up contracting with a second company to insure her Statistics and
> > Economics books were accessible to her. She got accessible .PDF's and
> > tactile maps and graduated on time. She had completed a degree in
> > Electrical Engineering when she was sighted, but she says that the
> > accommodations at Drexel, especially from her professors, is what made
> her
> > graduate program enjoyable.
> >
> > I spoke with a very low-vision TVI friend of mine yesterday that wishes
> she
> > had a student that was STEM interested or was at the level that she had
> to
> > provide some of the things we have been discussing. She moves between
> six
> > middle and high schools in our county and does not have any of her
> students
> > who have gotten past pre-Calculus. The higher functioning ones are
> usually
> > low-vision and the rest stop at basic high school Math and Science.
> >
> > On the other hand, I have another TVI in a county North of Atlanta that
> has
> > assisted in making every STEM related course in high school accessible.
> > She
> > has seen students go on to the University of Georgia in Genetics and to
> > Duke, Emory, and Wake Forrest in other STEM related fields.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Amanda
> > Lacy via Blindmath
> > Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 1:18 PM
> > To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> > <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> > Cc: Amanda Lacy <lacy925 at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
> >
> >> University ought to be enjoyable and not be like standing on a beach
> >> watching a tidal wave coming, especially for those that can't see it.
> >
> > But that's exactly how it is, at least for me. Just as I'm starting to
> gain
> > my balance again I'm knocked over by another wave. People are telling me
> I
> > should explore, have fun, and enjoy the challenge, but all I have time
> for
> > is survival. I experience no joy, not anymore.
> > Meanwhile, the sighted ones are all talking about what they want to take
> > next semester like it's some great adventure. It's always some course I
> > couldn't dream of taking because I can't read the textbooks.
> >
> > Yes, I'm fully aware of LaTeX. Usually I have to beg for it, and I don't
> > always get it. And y'all should see some of the barely-usable LaTeX I've
> > received. It wasn't much better than no LaTeX at all.
> >
> > There are also plenty of CS courses about graphics, but none about
sound.
> > They poison everything with graphics.
> >
> > I'm graduating with a bachelors in CS in May, and I don't think I'm ever
> > going back.
> >
> > Sorry for the reality, guys.
> >
> > Amanda
> >
> > On 11/30/15, Godfrey, Jonathan via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> I'd like all professionals in the business of helping students ask
> >> their former students what things they actively did that left them
> >> unprepared for university. This is not really covered by the questions
> >> posed in Maureen's message.
> >>
> >> All too often I am observing 18-20 year old blind people lack
> >> independence and confidence and therefore struggle at university. The
> >> support mechanisms they had on hand during high school are no longer
> >> there; the disability support systems are not ready to help them; and
> >> the educators they must work with have even less idea. The issues are
> >> even further compounded in the STEM fields where so many additional
> >> skills
> > are needed.
> >>
> >> In particular, I'd like to have seen more of the students I've come
> >> across gain experience preparing their own homework during high school
> >> so that they have experience before they get to university where there
> >> are so many other new things to have to deal with.
> >>
> >> University ought to be enjoyable and not be like standing on a beach
> >> watching a tidal wave coming, especially for those that can't see it.
> >>
> >> Jonathan
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> >> derek riemer via Blindmath
> >> Sent: Tuesday, 1 December 2015 5:41 a.m.
> >> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> >> Cc: derek riemer
> >> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >> If your student is planning to pursue a stem degree, then introduce
> >> them to la tex a bit. They should learn it asap as a college student
> >> because many stem materials may be more accessible in la tex format.
> >> Also, ensure that they know nemeth braille. It is insane how many
> >> people I know don't know nemeth braille, and it is essential to have
> > tactile feedback of the math.
> >> Also, having them transcribe math to you as well as having them use a
> >> tool like nemetex will help them ensure they are prepared for the
> >> process of converting math in college. I don't know anyone in a
> >> college setting who can have a tvi or someone interline their
> >> homework. It is essential to learn how to verbally transcribe
> >> homework, especially in more complex courses. You can mostly survive
> >> calc 1 and 2 with a tool like nemetex, but in upper level courses such
> >> as linear algebra, I found it necessary to use paper with braille to
> >> even understand the material. Some of it is spacial enough that the
> >> tech isn't quite ready to present the math correctly. Also, without a
> >> transcriber to transcribe (verbally I read them what I wanted them to
> >> write) math in linear algebra, it meant at least 3 hours of typing out
> >> the matrices in la tex. This is compared to half an hour reading it to
> >> someone who was skilled at writing that level of math.
> >> Hth.
> >>
> >> On 11/30/2015 8:07 AM, Lewicki, Maureen via Blindmath wrote:
> >>> Good morning! I am a TVI of some great and capable students. Would
> >>> you do me a favor? Could you reflect back on your high school years
> >>> and let me
> >>> know:
> >>>
> >>> Did you have a TVI supporting you?
> >>> What did he/she do to prepare you for college and career?
> >>> What do you regret the TVI did not do to prepare you?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for your input! My career is not long enough to make all my
> >>> own mistakes! I would rather learn from others' mistakes and
> strengths!!
> >>>
> >>> Maureen Murphy Lewicki
> >>> Teacher of the Visually Impaired
> >>> Bethlehem Central School District
> >>> Bethlehem High School
> >>> 700 Delaware Ave
> >>> Delmar, NY 12054
> >>> http://www.bethlehemschools.org<http://www.bethlehemschools.org/>
> >>> Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through
> >>> experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened,
> >>> ambition inspired, and success
> >>> achieved.<http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/30186.html> Helen
> >>> Keller
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Blindmath mailing list
> >>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> Blindmath:
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%4
> >>> 0 colorado.edu BlindMath Gems can be found at
> >>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >>
> >> --
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> --
> >>
> >>
> >> Derek Riemer
> >>
> >> * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
> >> * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
> >> * Open source enthusiast.
> >> * Member of Bridge Cu
> >> * Avid skiier.
> >>
> >> Websites:
> >> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.drupalgardens.com>
> >> Non-proffessional website.
> >> <http://derekriemer.pythonanywhere.com/personal>
> >> Awesome little hand built weather app that rocks!
> >> <http://derekriemer.pythonanywhere.com/weather>
> >>
> >> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu
> >> <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
> >> Phone: (303) 906-2194
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Blindmath mailing list
> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> Blindmath:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/a.j.godfrey%40m
> >> assey.ac.nz
> >> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> >> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Blindmath mailing list
> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> Blindmath:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/lacy925%40gmail
> >> .com
> >> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> >> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > Blindmath:
> >
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/vincent.martin%40gate
> > ch.edu
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at
> > <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > Blindmath:
> >
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/jeremy.richards7%40gm
> > ail.com
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at
> > <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > Blindmath:
> >
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/vincent.martin%40gate
> > ch.edu
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at
> > <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > Blindmath:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/lacy925%40gmail.com
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at
> > <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <
> http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 20:52:56 -0500
From: Sarah Jevnikar <sarah.jevnikar at mail.utoronto.ca>
To: 'Jonathon Yaggie' <jyaggi2 at uic.edu>, 'Blind Math list for those
interested in mathematics' <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
Message-ID: <003901d12bdb$02b518b0$081f4a10$@mail.utoronto.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Great points! Also someone brought up parents as a detriment. As a camp
counsellor for blind kids this past summer, I can?t agree more. There are
plenty of parents who hesitate to teach their kids to tie their own shoes
let alone think of a career?
From: Jonathon Yaggie [mailto:jyaggi2 at uic.edu]
Sent: November-30-15 7:59 PM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
Cc: Sarah Jevnikar
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
I have been opting out of this conversation, because I am knee-deep in
postdoc applications. However, after reading Sarah's comments, I would like
to second her thoughts regarding career/educational planning.
I am on the boarder of being legally blind; therefore, I am fairly high
functioning. With that said, low expectations by educators including my TVI
were disheartening at the least. All my aptitude tests were consistent - I
should be a scientist or researcher. Yet my TVI refused to see me after age
15, I did not show appreciation for her talking down to me. Her primary
focus before that had been "assignments", most of which were essays on how
I could better integrate with "normal" students. Academics were next
considered or discussed. I had not academic accommodations until college.
That is not to say I did not have an IEP, simply that the only thing on it
was that I see a social worker.
With hindsight, I should have pursued medical research. However, this was
not even considered an option. Also i realize now, we do a disservice to
many students both sighted and visually impaired, by having low
expectations. My son who has the same condition, complains endlessly about
my high expectations. :)
Jon Yaggie
UIC Mathematics
Expanding Your Horizons Chicago Coordinator
Keep up with EYH Chicago on Facebook
<https://www.facebook.com/ExpandingYourHorizonsChicago> and Twitter
<http://www.twitter.com/@EYH_chicago>
On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 6:40 PM, Sarah Jevnikar via Blindmath
<blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
This is an interesting discussion topic.
My TVI in high school did the following for me:
- find titles of texts prior to my taking the relevant courses and ordering
them
- create Braille handouts and tests with diagrams as needed (usually with
fabric paint)
- transcribe my tests orally as I Brailled them in Nemeth and she couldn't
read it
I went into first year without knowing how much I needed to do myself: pick
courses early enough to order textbooks early enough so they could be
transcribed; order them once instructors gave me their info (which could be
slow in coming); translate my homework from Nemeth to text (I use Nemetex as
needed but probably should learn LaTeX but struggle with the confusing
literature). Fortunately I had contacts who could help with Brailling tests
and diagrams for those tests, but otherwise I would have been out of luck. I
still don't get tactile diagrams unless I ask a classmate, teaching
assistant or instructor to help make them. Thankfully I was used to
transcribing tests orally when software failed or wasn't available.
The trick is too that in high school, no student has to find their own texts
or reading materials. So all students face that hurdle. But blind students
have greater difficulty in the sense that the readings they need must be
scanned and hopefully are readable at that point. It's a lengthy process and
I still don't have a good solution.
I might point out too that my choice of university program was dictated by
the accommodations I thought I could get. I might have studied biology but
feared the lab setting as a totlally blind student.
In short, I would encourage every TVI to try to get their students to think
about what they want to do as a career, then help them plan for it. Biology?
Sure! Just talk to someone at a local university to get ideas for
accommodations well in advance. Have students do as much as they can without
TVI assistance - in the university and real world settings they'll have
advocates perhaps, but not anyone to help with the day-to-day aspects of
their education, unless they're able to get funding to pay them.
I hope this made some sense,
Sarah
-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Amanda
Lacy via Blindmath
Sent: November-30-15 6:38 PM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
Cc: Amanda Lacy
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
I want a job so that everything will stop changing every semester. I intend
to work as a programmer, doing I have no idea what. Apparently I was
supposed to explore that in school, but I've learned not to explore in
school.
Several people tell me to avoid environments like agile programming since
for the most part I can't work in groups. I'm now aware of some things to
avoid, but not the things I should look for.
Amanda
On 11/30/15, Vincent Martin via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> I, along with other friends, actually have had much better
> accessibility in the private sector! I am fifty-one years old and my
> Ph.D is my fifth different STEM degree. I have had many, many, jobs
> in the private sector, state and local government, the Federal
> government, and as a private consultant. The private sector normally
> understands accessibility better and lawsuits are much more damaging
> to a private corporation. I can say this from the fact that I also
> have served as an expert witness in fourteen cases so far. The worst
> offenders have been schools and the Federal "Government. I also serve
> as an accessibility consultant for companies and accessibility is a
> really hot topic right now. I make $2100 a month as a graduate
> research assistant and made three times that amount last year
> assisting "private" companies on making systems and jobs as accessible
> as possible. I literally worked two total weeks during the breaks
> from my semesters on these projects. One client who can't be named is
> very good at accommodating its employees as they age as a middle-level
> manger that leaves to early retirement takes about a million dollars
> out the door in institutional knowledge. Their biggest problem (they
> are a Fortune 200
> company) is getting people to self-disclose their disability. When I
> showed them back in 2004 how much money they were losing to lost
> productivity to hidden disabilities, they were floored. They have
> spent over ten years attempting to keep their employees and to hire
> qualified employees with disabilities. In 2005, I convinced them not
> to start a customer service program for blind employees. Instead,
> they try to hire very qualified employs, disability or not, and then
> provide them with the best support possible.
>
> That blind engineer that got her M.B.A. at Drexel lost her vision
> while she was working for a private employer. The State Voc Rehab
> people were unable to solve her accessibility problem, but we blind
> people did. I, along with a Freedom Scientific tech support
> specialist, solved the interface problem with her mainframe over the
> phone. She was re-hired and my research lab at the Veterans
> Administration "stole" her from her. She had a pain in the butt
> getting all of her equipment, such as an oscilloscope that attached to
> a computer. The Feds said that it was not assistive technology,
> because anyone could use it. Our supervisor bought it out of his
> discretionary funds. At both of her private sector jobs, the
> assistive technology showed up even when she did not ask for it. When
> she left for the Feds, she hated to give up her Braille Note PK. It,
along with all types of devices would just be delivered out of the blue.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Jeremy via Blindmath
> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 3:43 PM
> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
> Cc: Jeremy
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
>
> While all this is great, what are these blind PhD students going to do
> when they join the workforce and all these teams of individuals are no
> longer available to insure accessibility of work related materials.
> Believe me, you're not going to sick the government on your private sector
employer.
>
> Now having left university life long ago, it is amazing to me how
> different the real world really functions as opposed to the
> pseudo-utopia in these educational institutions.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> vincent martin via Blindmath
> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 12:03 PM
> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
> Cc: vincent martin
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
>
> Amanda,
> I will get back to the TVI topic, but wanted to lend you an arm of
support!
> The way you expressed yourself is the way in which so many blind
> students feel each and every quarter/semester. Don't let your bad
> experiences stop you from going further if you so desire. I am sure
> we can find a graduate program at a school that would gladly have and
> accommodate you! If a school starts to accommodate students and gets
> ones that are successful, then they start expecting them to show up.
> That has started to occur at North Carolina State where they have had
> two blind Ph.D. students in Computer Science recently. Maybe we can
> start a list/database of schools that have done a good job of making
> STEM related curriculum accessible. That would be a great benefit to
> students considering which schools to attend in the future.
>
> I am the first totally blind student in the history of Georgia Tech.
> Although things were terrible when I got here as far as accessibility
> is concerned, I have done whatever I can to open the doors to the ones
> that follow me. That included filing complaints with the Department
> of Education. Things got much better once the Feds showed up! We
> even have a new disability access policy that has been publically
> circulated for open comment before it becomes standard institute
> policy. Last year I encountered a visually impaired student at the
> Empowering Blind students in STEM workshop sponsored by DO-IT at the
> University of Washington. He was interested in the Ph.D. program in
> Biomedical Engineering here. He was accepted and enrolled this Fall and
all of his documents are accessible!
>
> We now have a professional on campus who is responsible for making
> sure our documents are converted into the format we need in a timely
> manner. PDF documents can be converted with OCR software to a
> readable format either Word or .PDF and she will even re-format
> tables into readable formats. We can get descriptions of images and
> or tactile diagrams created. Those are usually outsourced to AMAC
> Accessible Solutions which is an organization based on campus that
> makes content accessible to all colleges and universities in the state
> system and has partner institutions all over the country. I have seen
> them get an entire college level Math book transcribed into Braille in
> less than a month. They now also convert documents into Math ML as
> well. I am getting two Statistics books converted right now.
>
> The network of people that you meet can also be of assistance,
> depending upon the situation. I was fortunate that my advisor was an
> acquaintance of mine before I applied. His lab does research into
> assistive technology and the other students in the lab just help me
> because it is the right thing to do. One of them is the person that
> created the descriptions for Zack at Mississippi state a few weeks
> ago. The others love to have me in a class with them as they know
> that the PDF documents for studying will now be readable! Sighted
> students get crappy stuff (bad scan of a bad copy) and many now use the
text to speech engine in Acrobat Reader to read their
> materials. . My fellow lab mates also created the first totally
> accessible
> fantasy football league just so I could play with them. After using
> up the ESPN seed grant, they did it as a side project and did anything
> to make it relevant to our research goals. We have had one
> publication, one CSUN presentation, and two more current journal
> submissions concerning the data collected from our projects and
> studies. These are the same people that know to ask me if I have a
> text copy of any book that they are using for research. They know
> that many hundred page printed book on their desk is not nearly as
> useful as the electronic one I have. Sometimes, we have the print
> book on the table next to a computer with the electronic one when we are
writing papers and citing our references.
>
> It is a constant fight for most of us, but there Aare some schools
> that do such a great job that is actually surprising. I had a former
> student just graduate from the M.B.A. program at Drexel as an almost
> totally blind student and the school went out of their way to
> accommodate her. They even ended up contracting with a second company
> to insure her Statistics and Economics books were accessible to her.
> She got accessible .PDF's and tactile maps and graduated on time. She
> had completed a degree in Electrical Engineering when she was sighted,
> but she says that the accommodations at Drexel, especially from her
> professors, is what made her graduate program enjoyable.
>
> I spoke with a very low-vision TVI friend of mine yesterday that
> wishes she had a student that was STEM interested or was at the level
> that she had to provide some of the things we have been discussing.
> She moves between six middle and high schools in our county and does
> not have any of her students who have gotten past pre-Calculus. The
> higher functioning ones are usually low-vision and the rest stop at basic
high school Math and Science.
>
> On the other hand, I have another TVI in a county North of Atlanta
> that has assisted in making every STEM related course in high school
accessible.
> She
> has seen students go on to the University of Georgia in Genetics and
> to Duke, Emory, and Wake Forrest in other STEM related fields.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Amanda Lacy via Blindmath
> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 1:18 PM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Amanda Lacy <lacy925 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
>
>> University ought to be enjoyable and not be like standing on a beach
>> watching a tidal wave coming, especially for those that can't see it.
>
> But that's exactly how it is, at least for me. Just as I'm starting to
> gain my balance again I'm knocked over by another wave. People are
> telling me I should explore, have fun, and enjoy the challenge, but
> all I have time for is survival. I experience no joy, not anymore.
> Meanwhile, the sighted ones are all talking about what they want to
> take next semester like it's some great adventure. It's always some
> course I couldn't dream of taking because I can't read the textbooks.
>
> Yes, I'm fully aware of LaTeX. Usually I have to beg for it, and I
> don't always get it. And y'all should see some of the barely-usable
> LaTeX I've received. It wasn't much better than no LaTeX at all.
>
> There are also plenty of CS courses about graphics, but none about sound.
> They poison everything with graphics.
>
> I'm graduating with a bachelors in CS in May, and I don't think I'm
> ever going back.
>
> Sorry for the reality, guys.
>
> Amanda
>
> On 11/30/15, Godfrey, Jonathan via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'd like all professionals in the business of helping students ask
>> their former students what things they actively did that left them
>> unprepared for university. This is not really covered by the
>> questions posed in Maureen's message.
>>
>> All too often I am observing 18-20 year old blind people lack
>> independence and confidence and therefore struggle at university. The
>> support mechanisms they had on hand during high school are no longer
>> there; the disability support systems are not ready to help them; and
>> the educators they must work with have even less idea. The issues are
>> even further compounded in the STEM fields where so many additional
>> skills
> are needed.
>>
>> In particular, I'd like to have seen more of the students I've come
>> across gain experience preparing their own homework during high
>> school so that they have experience before they get to university
>> where there are so many other new things to have to deal with.
>>
>> University ought to be enjoyable and not be like standing on a beach
>> watching a tidal wave coming, especially for those that can't see it.
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> derek riemer via Blindmath
>> Sent: Tuesday, 1 December 2015 5:41 a.m.
>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>> Cc: derek riemer
>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
>>
>> Hi,
>> If your student is planning to pursue a stem degree, then introduce
>> them to la tex a bit. They should learn it asap as a college student
>> because many stem materials may be more accessible in la tex format.
>> Also, ensure that they know nemeth braille. It is insane how many
>> people I know don't know nemeth braille, and it is essential to have
> tactile feedback of the math.
>> Also, having them transcribe math to you as well as having them use a
>> tool like nemetex will help them ensure they are prepared for the
>> process of converting math in college. I don't know anyone in a
>> college setting who can have a tvi or someone interline their
>> homework. It is essential to learn how to verbally transcribe
>> homework, especially in more complex courses. You can mostly survive
>> calc 1 and 2 with a tool like nemetex, but in upper level courses
>> such as linear algebra, I found it necessary to use paper with
>> braille to even understand the material. Some of it is spacial enough
>> that the tech isn't quite ready to present the math correctly. Also,
>> without a transcriber to transcribe (verbally I read them what I
>> wanted them to
>> write) math in linear algebra, it meant at least 3 hours of typing
>> out the matrices in la tex. This is compared to half an hour reading
>> it to someone who was skilled at writing that level of math.
>> Hth.
>>
>> On 11/30/2015 8:07 AM, Lewicki, Maureen via Blindmath wrote:
>>> Good morning! I am a TVI of some great and capable students. Would
>>> you do me a favor? Could you reflect back on your high school years
>>> and let me
>>> know:
>>>
>>> Did you have a TVI supporting you?
>>> What did he/she do to prepare you for college and career?
>>> What do you regret the TVI did not do to prepare you?
>>>
>>> Thanks for your input! My career is not long enough to make all my
>>> own mistakes! I would rather learn from others' mistakes and strengths!!
>>>
>>> Maureen Murphy Lewicki
>>> Teacher of the Visually Impaired
>>> Bethlehem Central School District
>>> Bethlehem High School
>>> 700 Delaware Ave
>>> Delmar, NY 12054
>>> http://www.bethlehemschools.org<http://www.bethlehemschools.org/>
>>> Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through
>>> experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened,
>>> ambition inspired, and success
>>> achieved.<http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/30186.html> Helen
>>> Keller
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for
>>> Blindmath:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%
<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%25>
>>> 4
>>> 0 colorado.edu BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>
>> --
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -
>> --
>>
>>
>> Derek Riemer
>>
>> * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
>> * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
>> * Open source enthusiast.
>> * Member of Bridge Cu
>> * Avid skiier.
>>
>> Websites:
>> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.drupalgardens.com>
>> Non-proffessional website.
>> <http://derekriemer.pythonanywhere.com/personal>
>> Awesome little hand built weather app that rocks!
>> <http://derekriemer.pythonanywhere.com/weather>
>>
>> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu
>> <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
>> Phone: (303) 906-2194 <tel:%28303%29%20906-2194>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
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>> Blindmath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/a.j.godfrey%40
>> m
>> assey.ac.nz
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Blindmath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/lacy925%40gmai
>> l
>> .com
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/vincent.martin%25>
> 40gate
> ch.edu
> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
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<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/vincent.martin%25>
> 40gate
> ch.edu
> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 20:01:15 -0600
From: Amanda Lacy <lacy925 at gmail.com>
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
Message-ID:
<CABKqQvFkrStYWi=d07ybgo0eL69sOG4yixwkMcQhbRStOfds9Q at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Does anybody ever really know what they want to do when they grow up?
I've met a few who say they knew from when they were little kids, but
those are exceedingly rare. Asking me that same question over and over
and over again did not help me out one bit. All I ever did was go to
school, go home, go to school, go home...I had no knowledge of the
world and had never been exposed to computer programming either. Being
exposed to real things is much more useful than being repeatedly asked
hypothetical questions.
Amanda
On 11/30/15, Sarah Jevnikar via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Great points! Also someone brought up parents as a detriment. As a camp
> counsellor for blind kids this past summer, I can?t agree more. There are
> plenty of parents who hesitate to teach their kids to tie their own shoes
> let alone think of a career?
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Jonathon Yaggie [mailto:jyaggi2 at uic.edu]
> Sent: November-30-15 7:59 PM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> Cc: Sarah Jevnikar
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
>
>
>
> I have been opting out of this conversation, because I am knee-deep in
> postdoc applications. However, after reading Sarah's comments, I would
like
> to second her thoughts regarding career/educational planning.
>
>
>
> I am on the boarder of being legally blind; therefore, I am fairly high
> functioning. With that said, low expectations by educators including my
TVI
> were disheartening at the least. All my aptitude tests were consistent -
I
> should be a scientist or researcher. Yet my TVI refused to see me after
age
> 15, I did not show appreciation for her talking down to me. Her primary
> focus before that had been "assignments", most of which were essays on
how
> I could better integrate with "normal" students. Academics were next
> considered or discussed. I had not academic accommodations until college.
> That is not to say I did not have an IEP, simply that the only thing on it
> was that I see a social worker.
>
>
>
> With hindsight, I should have pursued medical research. However, this was
> not even considered an option. Also i realize now, we do a disservice to
> many students both sighted and visually impaired, by having low
> expectations. My son who has the same condition, complains endlessly
about
> my high expectations. :)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Jon Yaggie
>
> UIC Mathematics
>
> Expanding Your Horizons Chicago Coordinator
>
> Keep up with EYH Chicago on Facebook
> <https://www.facebook.com/ExpandingYourHorizonsChicago> and Twitter
> <http://www.twitter.com/@EYH_chicago>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 6:40 PM, Sarah Jevnikar via Blindmath
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> This is an interesting discussion topic.
>
> My TVI in high school did the following for me:
> - find titles of texts prior to my taking the relevant courses and
ordering
> them
> - create Braille handouts and tests with diagrams as needed (usually with
> fabric paint)
> - transcribe my tests orally as I Brailled them in Nemeth and she couldn't
> read it
>
> I went into first year without knowing how much I needed to do myself:
pick
> courses early enough to order textbooks early enough so they could be
> transcribed; order them once instructors gave me their info (which could
be
> slow in coming); translate my homework from Nemeth to text (I use Nemetex
as
> needed but probably should learn LaTeX but struggle with the confusing
> literature). Fortunately I had contacts who could help with Brailling
tests
> and diagrams for those tests, but otherwise I would have been out of luck.
I
> still don't get tactile diagrams unless I ask a classmate, teaching
> assistant or instructor to help make them. Thankfully I was used to
> transcribing tests orally when software failed or wasn't available.
>
> The trick is too that in high school, no student has to find their own
texts
> or reading materials. So all students face that hurdle. But blind students
> have greater difficulty in the sense that the readings they need must be
> scanned and hopefully are readable at that point. It's a lengthy process
and
> I still don't have a good solution.
>
> I might point out too that my choice of university program was dictated by
> the accommodations I thought I could get. I might have studied biology but
> feared the lab setting as a totlally blind student.
>
> In short, I would encourage every TVI to try to get their students to
think
> about what they want to do as a career, then help them plan for it.
Biology?
> Sure! Just talk to someone at a local university to get ideas for
> accommodations well in advance. Have students do as much as they can
without
> TVI assistance - in the university and real world settings they'll have
> advocates perhaps, but not anyone to help with the day-to-day aspects of
> their education, unless they're able to get funding to pay them.
>
> I hope this made some sense,
> Sarah
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Amanda
> Lacy via Blindmath
> Sent: November-30-15 6:38 PM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>
> Cc: Amanda Lacy
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
>
> I want a job so that everything will stop changing every semester. I
intend
> to work as a programmer, doing I have no idea what. Apparently I was
> supposed to explore that in school, but I've learned not to explore in
> school.
>
> Several people tell me to avoid environments like agile programming since
> for the most part I can't work in groups. I'm now aware of some things to
> avoid, but not the things I should look for.
>
> Amanda
>
> On 11/30/15, Vincent Martin via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> I, along with other friends, actually have had much better
>> accessibility in the private sector! I am fifty-one years old and my
>> Ph.D is my fifth different STEM degree. I have had many, many, jobs
>> in the private sector, state and local government, the Federal
>> government, and as a private consultant. The private sector normally
>> understands accessibility better and lawsuits are much more damaging
>> to a private corporation. I can say this from the fact that I also
>> have served as an expert witness in fourteen cases so far. The worst
>> offenders have been schools and the Federal "Government. I also serve
>> as an accessibility consultant for companies and accessibility is a
>> really hot topic right now. I make $2100 a month as a graduate
>> research assistant and made three times that amount last year
>> assisting "private" companies on making systems and jobs as accessible
>> as possible. I literally worked two total weeks during the breaks
>> from my semesters on these projects. One client who can't be named is
>> very good at accommodating its employees as they age as a middle-level
>> manger that leaves to early retirement takes about a million dollars
>> out the door in institutional knowledge. Their biggest problem (they
>> are a Fortune 200
>> company) is getting people to self-disclose their disability. When I
>> showed them back in 2004 how much money they were losing to lost
>> productivity to hidden disabilities, they were floored. They have
>> spent over ten years attempting to keep their employees and to hire
>> qualified employees with disabilities. In 2005, I convinced them not
>> to start a customer service program for blind employees. Instead,
>> they try to hire very qualified employs, disability or not, and then
>> provide them with the best support possible.
>>
>> That blind engineer that got her M.B.A. at Drexel lost her vision
>> while she was working for a private employer. The State Voc Rehab
>> people were unable to solve her accessibility problem, but we blind
>> people did. I, along with a Freedom Scientific tech support
>> specialist, solved the interface problem with her mainframe over the
>> phone. She was re-hired and my research lab at the Veterans
>> Administration "stole" her from her. She had a pain in the butt
>> getting all of her equipment, such as an oscilloscope that attached to
>> a computer. The Feds said that it was not assistive technology,
>> because anyone could use it. Our supervisor bought it out of his
>> discretionary funds. At both of her private sector jobs, the
>> assistive technology showed up even when she did not ask for it. When
>> she left for the Feds, she hated to give up her Braille Note PK. It,
> along with all types of devices would just be delivered out of the blue.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> Jeremy via Blindmath
>> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 3:43 PM
>> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
>> Cc: Jeremy
>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
>>
>> While all this is great, what are these blind PhD students going to do
>> when they join the workforce and all these teams of individuals are no
>> longer available to insure accessibility of work related materials.
>> Believe me, you're not going to sick the government on your private
sector
> employer.
>>
>> Now having left university life long ago, it is amazing to me how
>> different the real world really functions as opposed to the
>> pseudo-utopia in these educational institutions.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> vincent martin via Blindmath
>> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 12:03 PM
>> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
>> Cc: vincent martin
>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
>>
>> Amanda,
>> I will get back to the TVI topic, but wanted to lend you an arm of
> support!
>> The way you expressed yourself is the way in which so many blind
>> students feel each and every quarter/semester. Don't let your bad
>> experiences stop you from going further if you so desire. I am sure
>> we can find a graduate program at a school that would gladly have and
>> accommodate you! If a school starts to accommodate students and gets
>> ones that are successful, then they start expecting them to show up.
>> That has started to occur at North Carolina State where they have had
>> two blind Ph.D. students in Computer Science recently. Maybe we can
>> start a list/database of schools that have done a good job of making
>> STEM related curriculum accessible. That would be a great benefit to
>> students considering which schools to attend in the future.
>>
>> I am the first totally blind student in the history of Georgia Tech.
>> Although things were terrible when I got here as far as accessibility
>> is concerned, I have done whatever I can to open the doors to the ones
>> that follow me. That included filing complaints with the Department
>> of Education. Things got much better once the Feds showed up! We
>> even have a new disability access policy that has been publically
>> circulated for open comment before it becomes standard institute
>> policy. Last year I encountered a visually impaired student at the
>> Empowering Blind students in STEM workshop sponsored by DO-IT at the
>> University of Washington. He was interested in the Ph.D. program in
>> Biomedical Engineering here. He was accepted and enrolled this Fall and
> all of his documents are accessible!
>>
>> We now have a professional on campus who is responsible for making
>> sure our documents are converted into the format we need in a timely
>> manner. PDF documents can be converted with OCR software to a
>> readable format either Word or .PDF and she will even re-format
>> tables into readable formats. We can get descriptions of images and
>> or tactile diagrams created. Those are usually outsourced to AMAC
>> Accessible Solutions which is an organization based on campus that
>> makes content accessible to all colleges and universities in the state
>> system and has partner institutions all over the country. I have seen
>> them get an entire college level Math book transcribed into Braille in
>> less than a month. They now also convert documents into Math ML as
>> well. I am getting two Statistics books converted right now.
>>
>> The network of people that you meet can also be of assistance,
>> depending upon the situation. I was fortunate that my advisor was an
>> acquaintance of mine before I applied. His lab does research into
>> assistive technology and the other students in the lab just help me
>> because it is the right thing to do. One of them is the person that
>> created the descriptions for Zack at Mississippi state a few weeks
>> ago. The others love to have me in a class with them as they know
>> that the PDF documents for studying will now be readable! Sighted
>> students get crappy stuff (bad scan of a bad copy) and many now use the
> text to speech engine in Acrobat Reader to read their
>> materials. . My fellow lab mates also created the first totally
>> accessible
>> fantasy football league just so I could play with them. After using
>> up the ESPN seed grant, they did it as a side project and did anything
>> to make it relevant to our research goals. We have had one
>> publication, one CSUN presentation, and two more current journal
>> submissions concerning the data collected from our projects and
>> studies. These are the same people that know to ask me if I have a
>> text copy of any book that they are using for research. They know
>> that many hundred page printed book on their desk is not nearly as
>> useful as the electronic one I have. Sometimes, we have the print
>> book on the table next to a computer with the electronic one when we are
> writing papers and citing our references.
>>
>> It is a constant fight for most of us, but there Aare some schools
>> that do such a great job that is actually surprising. I had a former
>> student just graduate from the M.B.A. program at Drexel as an almost
>> totally blind student and the school went out of their way to
>> accommodate her. They even ended up contracting with a second company
>> to insure her Statistics and Economics books were accessible to her.
>> She got accessible .PDF's and tactile maps and graduated on time. She
>> had completed a degree in Electrical Engineering when she was sighted,
>> but she says that the accommodations at Drexel, especially from her
>> professors, is what made her graduate program enjoyable.
>>
>> I spoke with a very low-vision TVI friend of mine yesterday that
>> wishes she had a student that was STEM interested or was at the level
>> that she had to provide some of the things we have been discussing.
>> She moves between six middle and high schools in our county and does
>> not have any of her students who have gotten past pre-Calculus. The
>> higher functioning ones are usually low-vision and the rest stop at basic
> high school Math and Science.
>>
>> On the other hand, I have another TVI in a county North of Atlanta
>> that has assisted in making every STEM related course in high school
> accessible.
>> She
>> has seen students go on to the University of Georgia in Genetics and
>> to Duke, Emory, and Wake Forrest in other STEM related fields.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> Amanda Lacy via Blindmath
>> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 1:18 PM
>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Amanda Lacy <lacy925 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
>>
>>> University ought to be enjoyable and not be like standing on a beach
>>> watching a tidal wave coming, especially for those that can't see it.
>>
>> But that's exactly how it is, at least for me. Just as I'm starting to
>> gain my balance again I'm knocked over by another wave. People are
>> telling me I should explore, have fun, and enjoy the challenge, but
>> all I have time for is survival. I experience no joy, not anymore.
>> Meanwhile, the sighted ones are all talking about what they want to
>> take next semester like it's some great adventure. It's always some
>> course I couldn't dream of taking because I can't read the textbooks.
>>
>> Yes, I'm fully aware of LaTeX. Usually I have to beg for it, and I
>> don't always get it. And y'all should see some of the barely-usable
>> LaTeX I've received. It wasn't much better than no LaTeX at all.
>>
>> There are also plenty of CS courses about graphics, but none about sound.
>> They poison everything with graphics.
>>
>> I'm graduating with a bachelors in CS in May, and I don't think I'm
>> ever going back.
>>
>> Sorry for the reality, guys.
>>
>> Amanda
>>
>> On 11/30/15, Godfrey, Jonathan via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I'd like all professionals in the business of helping students ask
>>> their former students what things they actively did that left them
>>> unprepared for university. This is not really covered by the
>>> questions posed in Maureen's message.
>>>
>>> All too often I am observing 18-20 year old blind people lack
>>> independence and confidence and therefore struggle at university. The
>>> support mechanisms they had on hand during high school are no longer
>>> there; the disability support systems are not ready to help them; and
>>> the educators they must work with have even less idea. The issues are
>>> even further compounded in the STEM fields where so many additional
>>> skills
>> are needed.
>>>
>>> In particular, I'd like to have seen more of the students I've come
>>> across gain experience preparing their own homework during high
>>> school so that they have experience before they get to university
>>> where there are so many other new things to have to deal with.
>>>
>>> University ought to be enjoyable and not be like standing on a beach
>>> watching a tidal wave coming, especially for those that can't see it.
>>>
>>> Jonathan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>> derek riemer via Blindmath
>>> Sent: Tuesday, 1 December 2015 5:41 a.m.
>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>> Cc: derek riemer
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>> If your student is planning to pursue a stem degree, then introduce
>>> them to la tex a bit. They should learn it asap as a college student
>>> because many stem materials may be more accessible in la tex format.
>>> Also, ensure that they know nemeth braille. It is insane how many
>>> people I know don't know nemeth braille, and it is essential to have
>> tactile feedback of the math.
>>> Also, having them transcribe math to you as well as having them use a
>>> tool like nemetex will help them ensure they are prepared for the
>>> process of converting math in college. I don't know anyone in a
>>> college setting who can have a tvi or someone interline their
>>> homework. It is essential to learn how to verbally transcribe
>>> homework, especially in more complex courses. You can mostly survive
>>> calc 1 and 2 with a tool like nemetex, but in upper level courses
>>> such as linear algebra, I found it necessary to use paper with
>>> braille to even understand the material. Some of it is spacial enough
>>> that the tech isn't quite ready to present the math correctly. Also,
>>> without a transcriber to transcribe (verbally I read them what I
>>> wanted them to
>>> write) math in linear algebra, it meant at least 3 hours of typing
>>> out the matrices in la tex. This is compared to half an hour reading
>>> it to someone who was skilled at writing that level of math.
>>> Hth.
>>>
>>> On 11/30/2015 8:07 AM, Lewicki, Maureen via Blindmath wrote:
>>>> Good morning! I am a TVI of some great and capable students. Would
>>>> you do me a favor? Could you reflect back on your high school years
>>>> and let me
>>>> know:
>>>>
>>>> Did you have a TVI supporting you?
>>>> What did he/she do to prepare you for college and career?
>>>> What do you regret the TVI did not do to prepare you?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your input! My career is not long enough to make all my
>>>> own mistakes! I would rather learn from others' mistakes and
strengths!!
>>>>
>>>> Maureen Murphy Lewicki
>>>> Teacher of the Visually Impaired
>>>> Bethlehem Central School District
>>>> Bethlehem High School
>>>> 700 Delaware Ave
>>>> Delmar, NY 12054
>>>> http://www.bethlehemschools.org<http://www.bethlehemschools.org/>
>>>> Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through
>>>> experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened,
>>>> ambition inspired, and success
>>>> achieved.<http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/30186.html> Helen
>>>> Keller
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> Blindmath:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%
>>>>
<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%25>
>>>>
>>>> 4
>>>> 0 colorado.edu BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> Derek Riemer
>>>
>>> * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
>>> * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
>>> * Open source enthusiast.
>>> * Member of Bridge Cu
>>> * Avid skiier.
>>>
>>> Websites:
>>> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.drupalgardens.com>
>>> Non-proffessional website.
>>> <http://derekriemer.pythonanywhere.com/personal>
>>> Awesome little hand built weather app that rocks!
>>> <http://derekriemer.pythonanywhere.com/weather>
>>>
>>> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu
>>> <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
>>> Phone: (303) 906-2194 <tel:%28303%29%20906-2194>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Blindmath mailing list
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>>> m
>>> assey.ac.nz
>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> l
>>> .com
>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/vincent.martin%25>
>>
>> 40gate
>> ch.edu
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> 7%40gm
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>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>
>>
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>>
>> 40gate
>> ch.edu
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> .com
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>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>
>
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>
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------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 19:44:24 -0700
From: Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu>
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
Message-ID:
<CAF=_avedCVWK75ohnOj6J6STm0XN1aXoHAqNjyHsV_C_3wZtPQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
This is interesting because I was/am in the same boat. I have not had this
dream career since I was 6 or 12 or 16. Yet, I have found that many do.
On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 7:01 PM, Amanda Lacy via Blindmath <
blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Does anybody ever really know what they want to do when they grow up?
> I've met a few who say they knew from when they were little kids, but
> those are exceedingly rare. Asking me that same question over and over
> and over again did not help me out one bit. All I ever did was go to
> school, go home, go to school, go home...I had no knowledge of the
> world and had never been exposed to computer programming either. Being
> exposed to real things is much more useful than being repeatedly asked
> hypothetical questions.
>
> Amanda
>
> On 11/30/15, Sarah Jevnikar via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > Great points! Also someone brought up parents as a detriment. As a camp
> > counsellor for blind kids this past summer, I can?t agree more. There
are
> > plenty of parents who hesitate to teach their kids to tie their own
shoes
> > let alone think of a career?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Jonathon Yaggie [mailto:jyaggi2 at uic.edu]
> > Sent: November-30-15 7:59 PM
> > To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> > Cc: Sarah Jevnikar
> > Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
> >
> >
> >
> > I have been opting out of this conversation, because I am knee-deep in
> > postdoc applications. However, after reading Sarah's comments, I would
> like
> > to second her thoughts regarding career/educational planning.
> >
> >
> >
> > I am on the boarder of being legally blind; therefore, I am fairly high
> > functioning. With that said, low expectations by educators including my
> TVI
> > were disheartening at the least. All my aptitude tests were consistent
> - I
> > should be a scientist or researcher. Yet my TVI refused to see me after
> age
> > 15, I did not show appreciation for her talking down to me. Her primary
> > focus before that had been "assignments", most of which were essays on
> how
> > I could better integrate with "normal" students. Academics were next
> > considered or discussed. I had not academic accommodations until
> college.
> > That is not to say I did not have an IEP, simply that the only thing on
> it
> > was that I see a social worker.
> >
> >
> >
> > With hindsight, I should have pursued medical research. However, this
> was
> > not even considered an option. Also i realize now, we do a disservice
> to
> > many students both sighted and visually impaired, by having low
> > expectations. My son who has the same condition, complains endlessly
> about
> > my high expectations. :)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Jon Yaggie
> >
> > UIC Mathematics
> >
> > Expanding Your Horizons Chicago Coordinator
> >
> > Keep up with EYH Chicago on Facebook
> > <https://www.facebook.com/ExpandingYourHorizonsChicago> and Twitter
> > <http://www.twitter.com/@EYH_chicago>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 6:40 PM, Sarah Jevnikar via Blindmath
> > <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >
> > This is an interesting discussion topic.
> >
> > My TVI in high school did the following for me:
> > - find titles of texts prior to my taking the relevant courses and
> ordering
> > them
> > - create Braille handouts and tests with diagrams as needed (usually
with
> > fabric paint)
> > - transcribe my tests orally as I Brailled them in Nemeth and she
> couldn't
> > read it
> >
> > I went into first year without knowing how much I needed to do myself:
> pick
> > courses early enough to order textbooks early enough so they could be
> > transcribed; order them once instructors gave me their info (which could
> be
> > slow in coming); translate my homework from Nemeth to text (I use
> Nemetex as
> > needed but probably should learn LaTeX but struggle with the confusing
> > literature). Fortunately I had contacts who could help with Brailling
> tests
> > and diagrams for those tests, but otherwise I would have been out of
> luck. I
> > still don't get tactile diagrams unless I ask a classmate, teaching
> > assistant or instructor to help make them. Thankfully I was used to
> > transcribing tests orally when software failed or wasn't available.
> >
> > The trick is too that in high school, no student has to find their own
> texts
> > or reading materials. So all students face that hurdle. But blind
> students
> > have greater difficulty in the sense that the readings they need must be
> > scanned and hopefully are readable at that point. It's a lengthy process
> and
> > I still don't have a good solution.
> >
> > I might point out too that my choice of university program was dictated
> by
> > the accommodations I thought I could get. I might have studied biology
> but
> > feared the lab setting as a totlally blind student.
> >
> > In short, I would encourage every TVI to try to get their students to
> think
> > about what they want to do as a career, then help them plan for it.
> Biology?
> > Sure! Just talk to someone at a local university to get ideas for
> > accommodations well in advance. Have students do as much as they can
> without
> > TVI assistance - in the university and real world settings they'll have
> > advocates perhaps, but not anyone to help with the day-to-day aspects of
> > their education, unless they're able to get funding to pay them.
> >
> > I hope this made some sense,
> > Sarah
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Amanda
> > Lacy via Blindmath
> > Sent: November-30-15 6:38 PM
> > To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> >
> > Cc: Amanda Lacy
> > Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
> >
> > I want a job so that everything will stop changing every semester. I
> intend
> > to work as a programmer, doing I have no idea what. Apparently I was
> > supposed to explore that in school, but I've learned not to explore in
> > school.
> >
> > Several people tell me to avoid environments like agile programming
since
> > for the most part I can't work in groups. I'm now aware of some things
to
> > avoid, but not the things I should look for.
> >
> > Amanda
> >
> > On 11/30/15, Vincent Martin via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >> I, along with other friends, actually have had much better
> >> accessibility in the private sector! I am fifty-one years old and my
> >> Ph.D is my fifth different STEM degree. I have had many, many, jobs
> >> in the private sector, state and local government, the Federal
> >> government, and as a private consultant. The private sector normally
> >> understands accessibility better and lawsuits are much more damaging
> >> to a private corporation. I can say this from the fact that I also
> >> have served as an expert witness in fourteen cases so far. The worst
> >> offenders have been schools and the Federal "Government. I also serve
> >> as an accessibility consultant for companies and accessibility is a
> >> really hot topic right now. I make $2100 a month as a graduate
> >> research assistant and made three times that amount last year
> >> assisting "private" companies on making systems and jobs as accessible
> >> as possible. I literally worked two total weeks during the breaks
> >> from my semesters on these projects. One client who can't be named is
> >> very good at accommodating its employees as they age as a middle-level
> >> manger that leaves to early retirement takes about a million dollars
> >> out the door in institutional knowledge. Their biggest problem (they
> >> are a Fortune 200
> >> company) is getting people to self-disclose their disability. When I
> >> showed them back in 2004 how much money they were losing to lost
> >> productivity to hidden disabilities, they were floored. They have
> >> spent over ten years attempting to keep their employees and to hire
> >> qualified employees with disabilities. In 2005, I convinced them not
> >> to start a customer service program for blind employees. Instead,
> >> they try to hire very qualified employs, disability or not, and then
> >> provide them with the best support possible.
> >>
> >> That blind engineer that got her M.B.A. at Drexel lost her vision
> >> while she was working for a private employer. The State Voc Rehab
> >> people were unable to solve her accessibility problem, but we blind
> >> people did. I, along with a Freedom Scientific tech support
> >> specialist, solved the interface problem with her mainframe over the
> >> phone. She was re-hired and my research lab at the Veterans
> >> Administration "stole" her from her. She had a pain in the butt
> >> getting all of her equipment, such as an oscilloscope that attached to
> >> a computer. The Feds said that it was not assistive technology,
> >> because anyone could use it. Our supervisor bought it out of his
> >> discretionary funds. At both of her private sector jobs, the
> >> assistive technology showed up even when she did not ask for it. When
> >> she left for the Feds, she hated to give up her Braille Note PK. It,
> > along with all types of devices would just be delivered out of the blue.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> >> Jeremy via Blindmath
> >> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 3:43 PM
> >> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
> >> Cc: Jeremy
> >> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
> >>
> >> While all this is great, what are these blind PhD students going to do
> >> when they join the workforce and all these teams of individuals are no
> >> longer available to insure accessibility of work related materials.
> >> Believe me, you're not going to sick the government on your private
> sector
> > employer.
> >>
> >> Now having left university life long ago, it is amazing to me how
> >> different the real world really functions as opposed to the
> >> pseudo-utopia in these educational institutions.
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> >> vincent martin via Blindmath
> >> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 12:03 PM
> >> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
> >> Cc: vincent martin
> >> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
> >>
> >> Amanda,
> >> I will get back to the TVI topic, but wanted to lend you an arm of
> > support!
> >> The way you expressed yourself is the way in which so many blind
> >> students feel each and every quarter/semester. Don't let your bad
> >> experiences stop you from going further if you so desire. I am sure
> >> we can find a graduate program at a school that would gladly have and
> >> accommodate you! If a school starts to accommodate students and gets
> >> ones that are successful, then they start expecting them to show up.
> >> That has started to occur at North Carolina State where they have had
> >> two blind Ph.D. students in Computer Science recently. Maybe we can
> >> start a list/database of schools that have done a good job of making
> >> STEM related curriculum accessible. That would be a great benefit to
> >> students considering which schools to attend in the future.
> >>
> >> I am the first totally blind student in the history of Georgia Tech.
> >> Although things were terrible when I got here as far as accessibility
> >> is concerned, I have done whatever I can to open the doors to the ones
> >> that follow me. That included filing complaints with the Department
> >> of Education. Things got much better once the Feds showed up! We
> >> even have a new disability access policy that has been publically
> >> circulated for open comment before it becomes standard institute
> >> policy. Last year I encountered a visually impaired student at the
> >> Empowering Blind students in STEM workshop sponsored by DO-IT at the
> >> University of Washington. He was interested in the Ph.D. program in
> >> Biomedical Engineering here. He was accepted and enrolled this Fall
and
> > all of his documents are accessible!
> >>
> >> We now have a professional on campus who is responsible for making
> >> sure our documents are converted into the format we need in a timely
> >> manner. PDF documents can be converted with OCR software to a
> >> readable format either Word or .PDF and she will even re-format
> >> tables into readable formats. We can get descriptions of images and
> >> or tactile diagrams created. Those are usually outsourced to AMAC
> >> Accessible Solutions which is an organization based on campus that
> >> makes content accessible to all colleges and universities in the state
> >> system and has partner institutions all over the country. I have seen
> >> them get an entire college level Math book transcribed into Braille in
> >> less than a month. They now also convert documents into Math ML as
> >> well. I am getting two Statistics books converted right now.
> >>
> >> The network of people that you meet can also be of assistance,
> >> depending upon the situation. I was fortunate that my advisor was an
> >> acquaintance of mine before I applied. His lab does research into
> >> assistive technology and the other students in the lab just help me
> >> because it is the right thing to do. One of them is the person that
> >> created the descriptions for Zack at Mississippi state a few weeks
> >> ago. The others love to have me in a class with them as they know
> >> that the PDF documents for studying will now be readable! Sighted
> >> students get crappy stuff (bad scan of a bad copy) and many now use the
> > text to speech engine in Acrobat Reader to read their
> >> materials. . My fellow lab mates also created the first totally
> >> accessible
> >> fantasy football league just so I could play with them. After using
> >> up the ESPN seed grant, they did it as a side project and did anything
> >> to make it relevant to our research goals. We have had one
> >> publication, one CSUN presentation, and two more current journal
> >> submissions concerning the data collected from our projects and
> >> studies. These are the same people that know to ask me if I have a
> >> text copy of any book that they are using for research. They know
> >> that many hundred page printed book on their desk is not nearly as
> >> useful as the electronic one I have. Sometimes, we have the print
> >> book on the table next to a computer with the electronic one when we
are
> > writing papers and citing our references.
> >>
> >> It is a constant fight for most of us, but there Aare some schools
> >> that do such a great job that is actually surprising. I had a former
> >> student just graduate from the M.B.A. program at Drexel as an almost
> >> totally blind student and the school went out of their way to
> >> accommodate her. They even ended up contracting with a second company
> >> to insure her Statistics and Economics books were accessible to her.
> >> She got accessible .PDF's and tactile maps and graduated on time. She
> >> had completed a degree in Electrical Engineering when she was sighted,
> >> but she says that the accommodations at Drexel, especially from her
> >> professors, is what made her graduate program enjoyable.
> >>
> >> I spoke with a very low-vision TVI friend of mine yesterday that
> >> wishes she had a student that was STEM interested or was at the level
> >> that she had to provide some of the things we have been discussing.
> >> She moves between six middle and high schools in our county and does
> >> not have any of her students who have gotten past pre-Calculus. The
> >> higher functioning ones are usually low-vision and the rest stop at
> basic
> > high school Math and Science.
> >>
> >> On the other hand, I have another TVI in a county North of Atlanta
> >> that has assisted in making every STEM related course in high school
> > accessible.
> >> She
> >> has seen students go on to the University of Georgia in Genetics and
> >> to Duke, Emory, and Wake Forrest in other STEM related fields.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> >> Amanda Lacy via Blindmath
> >> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 1:18 PM
> >> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> >> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> >> Cc: Amanda Lacy <lacy925 at gmail.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
> >>
> >>> University ought to be enjoyable and not be like standing on a beach
> >>> watching a tidal wave coming, especially for those that can't see it.
> >>
> >> But that's exactly how it is, at least for me. Just as I'm starting to
> >> gain my balance again I'm knocked over by another wave. People are
> >> telling me I should explore, have fun, and enjoy the challenge, but
> >> all I have time for is survival. I experience no joy, not anymore.
> >> Meanwhile, the sighted ones are all talking about what they want to
> >> take next semester like it's some great adventure. It's always some
> >> course I couldn't dream of taking because I can't read the textbooks.
> >>
> >> Yes, I'm fully aware of LaTeX. Usually I have to beg for it, and I
> >> don't always get it. And y'all should see some of the barely-usable
> >> LaTeX I've received. It wasn't much better than no LaTeX at all.
> >>
> >> There are also plenty of CS courses about graphics, but none about
> sound.
> >> They poison everything with graphics.
> >>
> >> I'm graduating with a bachelors in CS in May, and I don't think I'm
> >> ever going back.
> >>
> >> Sorry for the reality, guys.
> >>
> >> Amanda
> >>
> >> On 11/30/15, Godfrey, Jonathan via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
> >>> Hello,
> >>>
> >>> I'd like all professionals in the business of helping students ask
> >>> their former students what things they actively did that left them
> >>> unprepared for university. This is not really covered by the
> >>> questions posed in Maureen's message.
> >>>
> >>> All too often I am observing 18-20 year old blind people lack
> >>> independence and confidence and therefore struggle at university. The
> >>> support mechanisms they had on hand during high school are no longer
> >>> there; the disability support systems are not ready to help them; and
> >>> the educators they must work with have even less idea. The issues are
> >>> even further compounded in the STEM fields where so many additional
> >>> skills
> >> are needed.
> >>>
> >>> In particular, I'd like to have seen more of the students I've come
> >>> across gain experience preparing their own homework during high
> >>> school so that they have experience before they get to university
> >>> where there are so many other new things to have to deal with.
> >>>
> >>> University ought to be enjoyable and not be like standing on a beach
> >>> watching a tidal wave coming, especially for those that can't see it.
> >>>
> >>> Jonathan
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> >>> derek riemer via Blindmath
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, 1 December 2015 5:41 a.m.
> >>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> >>> Cc: derek riemer
> >>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
> >>>
> >>> Hi,
> >>> If your student is planning to pursue a stem degree, then introduce
> >>> them to la tex a bit. They should learn it asap as a college student
> >>> because many stem materials may be more accessible in la tex format.
> >>> Also, ensure that they know nemeth braille. It is insane how many
> >>> people I know don't know nemeth braille, and it is essential to have
> >> tactile feedback of the math.
> >>> Also, having them transcribe math to you as well as having them use a
> >>> tool like nemetex will help them ensure they are prepared for the
> >>> process of converting math in college. I don't know anyone in a
> >>> college setting who can have a tvi or someone interline their
> >>> homework. It is essential to learn how to verbally transcribe
> >>> homework, especially in more complex courses. You can mostly survive
> >>> calc 1 and 2 with a tool like nemetex, but in upper level courses
> >>> such as linear algebra, I found it necessary to use paper with
> >>> braille to even understand the material. Some of it is spacial enough
> >>> that the tech isn't quite ready to present the math correctly. Also,
> >>> without a transcriber to transcribe (verbally I read them what I
> >>> wanted them to
> >>> write) math in linear algebra, it meant at least 3 hours of typing
> >>> out the matrices in la tex. This is compared to half an hour reading
> >>> it to someone who was skilled at writing that level of math.
> >>> Hth.
> >>>
> >>> On 11/30/2015 8:07 AM, Lewicki, Maureen via Blindmath wrote:
> >>>> Good morning! I am a TVI of some great and capable students. Would
> >>>> you do me a favor? Could you reflect back on your high school years
> >>>> and let me
> >>>> know:
> >>>>
> >>>> Did you have a TVI supporting you?
> >>>> What did he/she do to prepare you for college and career?
> >>>> What do you regret the TVI did not do to prepare you?
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks for your input! My career is not long enough to make all my
> >>>> own mistakes! I would rather learn from others' mistakes and
> strengths!!
> >>>>
> >>>> Maureen Murphy Lewicki
> >>>> Teacher of the Visually Impaired
> >>>> Bethlehem Central School District
> >>>> Bethlehem High School
> >>>> 700 Delaware Ave
> >>>> Delmar, NY 12054
> >>>> http://www.bethlehemschools.org<http://www.bethlehemschools.org/>
> >>>> Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through
> >>>> experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened,
> >>>> ambition inspired, and success
> >>>> achieved.<http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/30186.html> Helen
> >>>> Keller
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Blindmath mailing list
> >>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >>>> for
> >>>> Blindmath:
> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%
> >>>> <
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%25>
> >>>>
> >>>> 4
> >>>> 0 colorado.edu BlindMath Gems can be found at
> >>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> -
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Derek Riemer
> >>>
> >>> * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
> >>> * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
> >>> * Open source enthusiast.
> >>> * Member of Bridge Cu
> >>> * Avid skiier.
> >>>
> >>> Websites:
> >>> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.drupalgardens.com>
> >>> Non-proffessional website.
> >>> <http://derekriemer.pythonanywhere.com/personal>
> >>> Awesome little hand built weather app that rocks!
> >>> <http://derekriemer.pythonanywhere.com/weather>
> >>>
> >>> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu
> >>> <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
> >>> Phone: (303) 906-2194 <tel:%28303%29%20906-2194>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Blindmath mailing list
> >>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> Blindmath:
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/a.j.godfrey%40
> >>> m
> >>> assey.ac.nz
> >>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> >>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Blindmath mailing list
> >>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> Blindmath:
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/lacy925%40gmai
> >>> l
> >>> .com
> >>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> >>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Blindmath mailing list
> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> Blindmath:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/vincent.martin%
> >> <
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/vincent.martin%25>
> >>
> >> 40gate
> >> ch.edu
> >> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> >> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Blindmath mailing list
> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> Blindmath:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/jeremy.richards
> >> 7%40gm
> >> ail.com
> >> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> >> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Blindmath mailing list
> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> Blindmath:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/vincent.martin%
> >> <
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/vincent.martin%25>
> >>
> >> 40gate
> >> ch.edu
> >> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> >> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Blindmath mailing list
> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> Blindmath:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/lacy925%40gmail
> >> .com
> >> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> >> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > Blindmath:
> >
> >
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40mail
> > .utoronto.ca
> >
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at
> > <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > Blindmath:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/jyaggi2%40uic.edu
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at
> > <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > Blindmath:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/lacy925%40gmail.com
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at
> > <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <
> http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 21:23:18 -0600
From: Jon Yaggie <jyaggi2 at uic.edu>
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
Message-ID: <94758901-721C-4B89-9FEB-64495126D52C at uic.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I had no idea what i planned to do either. However i also was not
encouraged to do anything. While other students received academic
counseling, no one even explained the process of applying to university.
My TVI took me to one career fair that suggested a service industry job may
be appropriate. In general we need to do better guiding all students to
explore and assess their strengths and weaknesses. While all students may
not know what to do with their lives, certainly students should not be
confused because educators do not properly do their job.
Jon Yaggie
EYH Chicago Coordinator
UIC Mathematics
> On Nov 30, 2015, at 20:44, Suzanne Germano via Blindmath
<blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> This is interesting because I was/am in the same boat. I have not had this
> dream career since I was 6 or 12 or 16. Yet, I have found that many do.
>
> On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 7:01 PM, Amanda Lacy via Blindmath <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
>> Does anybody ever really know what they want to do when they grow up?
>> I've met a few who say they knew from when they were little kids, but
>> those are exceedingly rare. Asking me that same question over and over
>> and over again did not help me out one bit. All I ever did was go to
>> school, go home, go to school, go home...I had no knowledge of the
>> world and had never been exposed to computer programming either. Being
>> exposed to real things is much more useful than being repeatedly asked
>> hypothetical questions.
>>
>> Amanda
>>
>>> On 11/30/15, Sarah Jevnikar via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> Great points! Also someone brought up parents as a detriment. As a camp
>>> counsellor for blind kids this past summer, I can?t agree more. There
are
>>> plenty of parents who hesitate to teach their kids to tie their own
shoes
>>> let alone think of a career?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Jonathon Yaggie [mailto:jyaggi2 at uic.edu]
>>> Sent: November-30-15 7:59 PM
>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>> Cc: Sarah Jevnikar
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have been opting out of this conversation, because I am knee-deep in
>>> postdoc applications. However, after reading Sarah's comments, I would
>> like
>>> to second her thoughts regarding career/educational planning.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I am on the boarder of being legally blind; therefore, I am fairly high
>>> functioning. With that said, low expectations by educators including my
>> TVI
>>> were disheartening at the least. All my aptitude tests were consistent
>> - I
>>> should be a scientist or researcher. Yet my TVI refused to see me after
>> age
>>> 15, I did not show appreciation for her talking down to me. Her primary
>>> focus before that had been "assignments", most of which were essays on
>> how
>>> I could better integrate with "normal" students. Academics were next
>>> considered or discussed. I had not academic accommodations until
>> college.
>>> That is not to say I did not have an IEP, simply that the only thing on
>> it
>>> was that I see a social worker.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> With hindsight, I should have pursued medical research. However, this
>> was
>>> not even considered an option. Also i realize now, we do a disservice
>> to
>>> many students both sighted and visually impaired, by having low
>>> expectations. My son who has the same condition, complains endlessly
>> about
>>> my high expectations. :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jon Yaggie
>>>
>>> UIC Mathematics
>>>
>>> Expanding Your Horizons Chicago Coordinator
>>>
>>> Keep up with EYH Chicago on Facebook
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ExpandingYourHorizonsChicago> and Twitter
>>> <http://www.twitter.com/@EYH_chicago>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 6:40 PM, Sarah Jevnikar via Blindmath
>>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> This is an interesting discussion topic.
>>>
>>> My TVI in high school did the following for me:
>>> - find titles of texts prior to my taking the relevant courses and
>> ordering
>>> them
>>> - create Braille handouts and tests with diagrams as needed (usually
with
>>> fabric paint)
>>> - transcribe my tests orally as I Brailled them in Nemeth and she
>> couldn't
>>> read it
>>>
>>> I went into first year without knowing how much I needed to do myself:
>> pick
>>> courses early enough to order textbooks early enough so they could be
>>> transcribed; order them once instructors gave me their info (which could
>> be
>>> slow in coming); translate my homework from Nemeth to text (I use
>> Nemetex as
>>> needed but probably should learn LaTeX but struggle with the confusing
>>> literature). Fortunately I had contacts who could help with Brailling
>> tests
>>> and diagrams for those tests, but otherwise I would have been out of
>> luck. I
>>> still don't get tactile diagrams unless I ask a classmate, teaching
>>> assistant or instructor to help make them. Thankfully I was used to
>>> transcribing tests orally when software failed or wasn't available.
>>>
>>> The trick is too that in high school, no student has to find their own
>> texts
>>> or reading materials. So all students face that hurdle. But blind
>> students
>>> have greater difficulty in the sense that the readings they need must be
>>> scanned and hopefully are readable at that point. It's a lengthy process
>> and
>>> I still don't have a good solution.
>>>
>>> I might point out too that my choice of university program was dictated
>> by
>>> the accommodations I thought I could get. I might have studied biology
>> but
>>> feared the lab setting as a totlally blind student.
>>>
>>> In short, I would encourage every TVI to try to get their students to
>> think
>>> about what they want to do as a career, then help them plan for it.
>> Biology?
>>> Sure! Just talk to someone at a local university to get ideas for
>>> accommodations well in advance. Have students do as much as they can
>> without
>>> TVI assistance - in the university and real world settings they'll have
>>> advocates perhaps, but not anyone to help with the day-to-day aspects of
>>> their education, unless they're able to get funding to pay them.
>>>
>>> I hope this made some sense,
>>> Sarah
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> Amanda
>>> Lacy via Blindmath
>>> Sent: November-30-15 6:38 PM
>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>>
>>> Cc: Amanda Lacy
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
>>>
>>> I want a job so that everything will stop changing every semester. I
>> intend
>>> to work as a programmer, doing I have no idea what. Apparently I was
>>> supposed to explore that in school, but I've learned not to explore in
>>> school.
>>>
>>> Several people tell me to avoid environments like agile programming
since
>>> for the most part I can't work in groups. I'm now aware of some things
to
>>> avoid, but not the things I should look for.
>>>
>>> Amanda
>>>
>>>> On 11/30/15, Vincent Martin via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> I, along with other friends, actually have had much better
>>>> accessibility in the private sector! I am fifty-one years old and my
>>>> Ph.D is my fifth different STEM degree. I have had many, many, jobs
>>>> in the private sector, state and local government, the Federal
>>>> government, and as a private consultant. The private sector normally
>>>> understands accessibility better and lawsuits are much more damaging
>>>> to a private corporation. I can say this from the fact that I also
>>>> have served as an expert witness in fourteen cases so far. The worst
>>>> offenders have been schools and the Federal "Government. I also serve
>>>> as an accessibility consultant for companies and accessibility is a
>>>> really hot topic right now. I make $2100 a month as a graduate
>>>> research assistant and made three times that amount last year
>>>> assisting "private" companies on making systems and jobs as accessible
>>>> as possible. I literally worked two total weeks during the breaks
>>>> from my semesters on these projects. One client who can't be named is
>>>> very good at accommodating its employees as they age as a middle-level
>>>> manger that leaves to early retirement takes about a million dollars
>>>> out the door in institutional knowledge. Their biggest problem (they
>>>> are a Fortune 200
>>>> company) is getting people to self-disclose their disability. When I
>>>> showed them back in 2004 how much money they were losing to lost
>>>> productivity to hidden disabilities, they were floored. They have
>>>> spent over ten years attempting to keep their employees and to hire
>>>> qualified employees with disabilities. In 2005, I convinced them not
>>>> to start a customer service program for blind employees. Instead,
>>>> they try to hire very qualified employs, disability or not, and then
>>>> provide them with the best support possible.
>>>>
>>>> That blind engineer that got her M.B.A. at Drexel lost her vision
>>>> while she was working for a private employer. The State Voc Rehab
>>>> people were unable to solve her accessibility problem, but we blind
>>>> people did. I, along with a Freedom Scientific tech support
>>>> specialist, solved the interface problem with her mainframe over the
>>>> phone. She was re-hired and my research lab at the Veterans
>>>> Administration "stole" her from her. She had a pain in the butt
>>>> getting all of her equipment, such as an oscilloscope that attached to
>>>> a computer. The Feds said that it was not assistive technology,
>>>> because anyone could use it. Our supervisor bought it out of his
>>>> discretionary funds. At both of her private sector jobs, the
>>>> assistive technology showed up even when she did not ask for it. When
>>>> she left for the Feds, she hated to give up her Braille Note PK. It,
>>> along with all types of devices would just be delivered out of the blue.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>> Jeremy via Blindmath
>>>> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 3:43 PM
>>>> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
>>>> Cc: Jeremy
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
>>>>
>>>> While all this is great, what are these blind PhD students going to do
>>>> when they join the workforce and all these teams of individuals are no
>>>> longer available to insure accessibility of work related materials.
>>>> Believe me, you're not going to sick the government on your private
>> sector
>>> employer.
>>>>
>>>> Now having left university life long ago, it is amazing to me how
>>>> different the real world really functions as opposed to the
>>>> pseudo-utopia in these educational institutions.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>> vincent martin via Blindmath
>>>> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 12:03 PM
>>>> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
>>>> Cc: vincent martin
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
>>>>
>>>> Amanda,
>>>> I will get back to the TVI topic, but wanted to lend you an arm of
>>> support!
>>>> The way you expressed yourself is the way in which so many blind
>>>> students feel each and every quarter/semester. Don't let your bad
>>>> experiences stop you from going further if you so desire. I am sure
>>>> we can find a graduate program at a school that would gladly have and
>>>> accommodate you! If a school starts to accommodate students and gets
>>>> ones that are successful, then they start expecting them to show up.
>>>> That has started to occur at North Carolina State where they have had
>>>> two blind Ph.D. students in Computer Science recently. Maybe we can
>>>> start a list/database of schools that have done a good job of making
>>>> STEM related curriculum accessible. That would be a great benefit to
>>>> students considering which schools to attend in the future.
>>>>
>>>> I am the first totally blind student in the history of Georgia Tech.
>>>> Although things were terrible when I got here as far as accessibility
>>>> is concerned, I have done whatever I can to open the doors to the ones
>>>> that follow me. That included filing complaints with the Department
>>>> of Education. Things got much better once the Feds showed up! We
>>>> even have a new disability access policy that has been publically
>>>> circulated for open comment before it becomes standard institute
>>>> policy. Last year I encountered a visually impaired student at the
>>>> Empowering Blind students in STEM workshop sponsored by DO-IT at the
>>>> University of Washington. He was interested in the Ph.D. program in
>>>> Biomedical Engineering here. He was accepted and enrolled this Fall
and
>>> all of his documents are accessible!
>>>>
>>>> We now have a professional on campus who is responsible for making
>>>> sure our documents are converted into the format we need in a timely
>>>> manner. PDF documents can be converted with OCR software to a
>>>> readable format either Word or .PDF and she will even re-format
>>>> tables into readable formats. We can get descriptions of images and
>>>> or tactile diagrams created. Those are usually outsourced to AMAC
>>>> Accessible Solutions which is an organization based on campus that
>>>> makes content accessible to all colleges and universities in the state
>>>> system and has partner institutions all over the country. I have seen
>>>> them get an entire college level Math book transcribed into Braille in
>>>> less than a month. They now also convert documents into Math ML as
>>>> well. I am getting two Statistics books converted right now.
>>>>
>>>> The network of people that you meet can also be of assistance,
>>>> depending upon the situation. I was fortunate that my advisor was an
>>>> acquaintance of mine before I applied. His lab does research into
>>>> assistive technology and the other students in the lab just help me
>>>> because it is the right thing to do. One of them is the person that
>>>> created the descriptions for Zack at Mississippi state a few weeks
>>>> ago. The others love to have me in a class with them as they know
>>>> that the PDF documents for studying will now be readable! Sighted
>>>> students get crappy stuff (bad scan of a bad copy) and many now use the
>>> text to speech engine in Acrobat Reader to read their
>>>> materials. . My fellow lab mates also created the first totally
>>>> accessible
>>>> fantasy football league just so I could play with them. After using
>>>> up the ESPN seed grant, they did it as a side project and did anything
>>>> to make it relevant to our research goals. We have had one
>>>> publication, one CSUN presentation, and two more current journal
>>>> submissions concerning the data collected from our projects and
>>>> studies. These are the same people that know to ask me if I have a
>>>> text copy of any book that they are using for research. They know
>>>> that many hundred page printed book on their desk is not nearly as
>>>> useful as the electronic one I have. Sometimes, we have the print
>>>> book on the table next to a computer with the electronic one when we
are
>>> writing papers and citing our references.
>>>>
>>>> It is a constant fight for most of us, but there Aare some schools
>>>> that do such a great job that is actually surprising. I had a former
>>>> student just graduate from the M.B.A. program at Drexel as an almost
>>>> totally blind student and the school went out of their way to
>>>> accommodate her. They even ended up contracting with a second company
>>>> to insure her Statistics and Economics books were accessible to her.
>>>> She got accessible .PDF's and tactile maps and graduated on time. She
>>>> had completed a degree in Electrical Engineering when she was sighted,
>>>> but she says that the accommodations at Drexel, especially from her
>>>> professors, is what made her graduate program enjoyable.
>>>>
>>>> I spoke with a very low-vision TVI friend of mine yesterday that
>>>> wishes she had a student that was STEM interested or was at the level
>>>> that she had to provide some of the things we have been discussing.
>>>> She moves between six middle and high schools in our county and does
>>>> not have any of her students who have gotten past pre-Calculus. The
>>>> higher functioning ones are usually low-vision and the rest stop at
>> basic
>>> high school Math and Science.
>>>>
>>>> On the other hand, I have another TVI in a county North of Atlanta
>>>> that has assisted in making every STEM related course in high school
>>> accessible.
>>>> She
>>>> has seen students go on to the University of Georgia in Genetics and
>>>> to Duke, Emory, and Wake Forrest in other STEM related fields.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>> Amanda Lacy via Blindmath
>>>> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 1:18 PM
>>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Cc: Amanda Lacy <lacy925 at gmail.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
>>>>
>>>>> University ought to be enjoyable and not be like standing on a beach
>>>>> watching a tidal wave coming, especially for those that can't see it.
>>>>
>>>> But that's exactly how it is, at least for me. Just as I'm starting to
>>>> gain my balance again I'm knocked over by another wave. People are
>>>> telling me I should explore, have fun, and enjoy the challenge, but
>>>> all I have time for is survival. I experience no joy, not anymore.
>>>> Meanwhile, the sighted ones are all talking about what they want to
>>>> take next semester like it's some great adventure. It's always some
>>>> course I couldn't dream of taking because I can't read the textbooks.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I'm fully aware of LaTeX. Usually I have to beg for it, and I
>>>> don't always get it. And y'all should see some of the barely-usable
>>>> LaTeX I've received. It wasn't much better than no LaTeX at all.
>>>>
>>>> There are also plenty of CS courses about graphics, but none about
>> sound.
>>>> They poison everything with graphics.
>>>>
>>>> I'm graduating with a bachelors in CS in May, and I don't think I'm
>>>> ever going back.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry for the reality, guys.
>>>>
>>>> Amanda
>>>>
>>>> On 11/30/15, Godfrey, Jonathan via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd like all professionals in the business of helping students ask
>>>>> their former students what things they actively did that left them
>>>>> unprepared for university. This is not really covered by the
>>>>> questions posed in Maureen's message.
>>>>>
>>>>> All too often I am observing 18-20 year old blind people lack
>>>>> independence and confidence and therefore struggle at university. The
>>>>> support mechanisms they had on hand during high school are no longer
>>>>> there; the disability support systems are not ready to help them; and
>>>>> the educators they must work with have even less idea. The issues are
>>>>> even further compounded in the STEM fields where so many additional
>>>>> skills
>>>> are needed.
>>>>>
>>>>> In particular, I'd like to have seen more of the students I've come
>>>>> across gain experience preparing their own homework during high
>>>>> school so that they have experience before they get to university
>>>>> where there are so many other new things to have to deal with.
>>>>>
>>>>> University ought to be enjoyable and not be like standing on a beach
>>>>> watching a tidal wave coming, especially for those that can't see it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jonathan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>> derek riemer via Blindmath
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 1 December 2015 5:41 a.m.
>>>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>>>> Cc: derek riemer
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> If your student is planning to pursue a stem degree, then introduce
>>>>> them to la tex a bit. They should learn it asap as a college student
>>>>> because many stem materials may be more accessible in la tex format.
>>>>> Also, ensure that they know nemeth braille. It is insane how many
>>>>> people I know don't know nemeth braille, and it is essential to have
>>>> tactile feedback of the math.
>>>>> Also, having them transcribe math to you as well as having them use a
>>>>> tool like nemetex will help them ensure they are prepared for the
>>>>> process of converting math in college. I don't know anyone in a
>>>>> college setting who can have a tvi or someone interline their
>>>>> homework. It is essential to learn how to verbally transcribe
>>>>> homework, especially in more complex courses. You can mostly survive
>>>>> calc 1 and 2 with a tool like nemetex, but in upper level courses
>>>>> such as linear algebra, I found it necessary to use paper with
>>>>> braille to even understand the material. Some of it is spacial enough
>>>>> that the tech isn't quite ready to present the math correctly. Also,
>>>>> without a transcriber to transcribe (verbally I read them what I
>>>>> wanted them to
>>>>> write) math in linear algebra, it meant at least 3 hours of typing
>>>>> out the matrices in la tex. This is compared to half an hour reading
>>>>> it to someone who was skilled at writing that level of math.
>>>>> Hth.
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/30/2015 8:07 AM, Lewicki, Maureen via Blindmath wrote:
>>>>>> Good morning! I am a TVI of some great and capable students. Would
>>>>>> you do me a favor? Could you reflect back on your high school years
>>>>>> and let me
>>>>>> know:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Did you have a TVI supporting you?
>>>>>> What did he/she do to prepare you for college and career?
>>>>>> What do you regret the TVI did not do to prepare you?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for your input! My career is not long enough to make all my
>>>>>> own mistakes! I would rather learn from others' mistakes and
>> strengths!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maureen Murphy Lewicki
>>>>>> Teacher of the Visually Impaired
>>>>>> Bethlehem Central School District
>>>>>> Bethlehem High School
>>>>>> 700 Delaware Ave
>>>>>> Delmar, NY 12054
>>>>>> http://www.bethlehemschools.org<http://www.bethlehemschools.org/>
>>>>>> Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through
>>>>>> experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened,
>>>>>> ambition inspired, and success
>>>>>> achieved.<http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/30186.html> Helen
>>>>>> Keller
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> Blindmath:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%
>>>>>> <
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%25>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 4
>>>>>> 0 colorado.edu BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>>>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> -
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Derek Riemer
>>>>>
>>>>> * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
>>>>> * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
>>>>> * Open source enthusiast.
>>>>> * Member of Bridge Cu
>>>>> * Avid skiier.
>>>>>
>>>>> Websites:
>>>>> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.drupalgardens.com>
>>>>> Non-proffessional website.
>>>>> <http://derekriemer.pythonanywhere.com/personal>
>>>>> Awesome little hand built weather app that rocks!
>>>>> <http://derekriemer.pythonanywhere.com/weather>
>>>>>
>>>>> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu
>>>>> <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
>>>>> Phone: (303) 906-2194 <tel:%28303%29%20906-2194>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Blindmath:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/a.j.godfrey%40
>>>>> m
>>>>> assey.ac.nz
>>>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Blindmath:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/lacy925%40gmai
>>>>> l
>>>>> .com
>>>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Blindmath:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/vincent.martin%
>>>> <
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/vincent.martin%25>
>>>>
>>>> 40gate
>>>> ch.edu
>>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Blindmath:
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>>>> 7%40gm
>>>> ail.com
>>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Blindmath:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/vincent.martin%
>>>> <
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/vincent.martin%25>
>>>>
>>>> 40gate
>>>> ch.edu
>>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Blindmath:
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>>>> .com
>>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Blindmath:
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40mail
>>> .utoronto.ca
>>>
>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
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>>
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------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 23:29:24 -0600
From: Sabra Ewing <sabra1023 at gmail.com>
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
Message-ID: <597882B0-375B-49AC-B80A-7B6436871A98 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Even if someone has a dream career or a degree they are thinking of pursuing
or a particular interest like English, I think you should still expose them
to other things. I remember that my TBI helped several students go to the
space camp program in Alabama and receive sponsorship for their airfare and
I wanted to go. When I asked why she never offered me the opportunity, she
said it was because I just didn't seem that interested in science. It is
true that I was mostly interested in English, but I didn't like being
categorized like that. I am still interested in space and space exploration.
I am not saying to go the opposite route and never entertain your students
particular interests, but your student needs to be experiencing everything
regardless of what their interests are. You can even use those interests to
help them branch out into other things. My interest in English lead to an
interest in science fiction and that led to an interest in space exploration
and more nonfiction scientific concepts. I still don't like a lot of other
scientific branches, but that branch still interested me when I used to
never be interested in anything scientific. Another thing is that you want
to focus on the students strengths. The special education field tends to
focus on weaknesses, but keep in mind that something may be a weakness and
one situation but it can be a strength and another. Help your student know
the best way to use all of their attributes to succeed in the work setting
instead of saying that you don't like certain attributes or that certain
attributes our weaknesses and should go away. You can say that a person is
sensitive and over emotional, but you can also say that they are expressive
and have the ability to connect to people on a deep level.you can say that
someone is stubborn and never does what you want, or you can say that their
independent and not easily swayed by outside influences. The same attributes
that makes someone bossy and controlling can help that person be a good
leader in the workplace if used differently. I am not saying to ignore it
when your student does something wrong or not to bring a problem to your
students attention, but put the emphasis on what they should be doing
instead of what they are not doing. That goes for academics as well like
correcting poor strategies for writing or completing math problems.another
thing is that you will work with students Who have different temperaments,
values, and desires than you. You have to remember that you are helping them
be the best person they can be to succeed in the workplace, not criticizing
them because they are not the person you think it is best to be. For
example, if you like extroverted people, but you are working with an
introverted student, your job is to help them be the best introverted person
they can be instead of lamenting that they are extroverted the way you want.
It is about what makes them happy and fulfilled, not about what you think
should make them happy. What they want and how they feel are not wrong.
Desires and emotions are not right or wrong. They just are. One of the most
damaging things you can do is tell your students that they should want
something else or be something else or feel something else that they don't
because it will make them feel odd and abnormal if you do it for a long
enough time or if enough people do it to them. It may be your job to handle
social skills training, and you want to make sure that you are taking the
students particular temperament into account. People cannot change the way
they are born nor should they have to. Also, try to avoid simulation
wherever possible and try to make experiences as natural as you can. For
example, don't manufacture a situation where the student will fail because
they don't do what you want even if your expectations are in line with what
they will be required to do in the workplace. The student will be focused on
how manufactured the situation was instead of doing what you want. If your
expectations truly are in line with real life, there will be plenty of
natural situations for the student to fail. Another thing is that you want
to articulate choices that the student has, things the student can do, and
strategies the student might use to deal with things and meet expectations
even if they seem obvious to you. Student may not have thought of them, and
in an anxious frame of mind, it might be hard to know what to do. Even if
you don't agree that a student should be anxious or frustrated, they need to
get from you that feeling that emotion is OK. It isn't your job to judge
whether a student should feel a certain way. It is your job to take what
they are feeling and what is going on and find the best way to solve a
problem with an instructor. Doing this with your guidance at first will give
them skills that they will need in the college setting. If you tell them
that they should not feel a certain way or if they should just ignore
something that bothers them or that you will just deal with every problem
for them, they will be missing things that they need. If they ignore
something that bothers them, it can cause resentment if it is bad enough and
that resentment can lead to bad relations with classmates and professors or
outbursts in the classroom. Even if they get mad or are being inappropriate,
keep in mind that they are still communicating. As long as they are
communicating, you have something to work with and improve upon, but when
they shut down and don't communicate anything at all, your job will be a lot
harder. Instead of telling the student not to be a certain way, help them
communicate what they want more effectively. For example, don't say that it
was inappropriate and they should not have gotten mad inside the classroom.
They may already know that and just not know what else to do. Instead, give
them suggestions of things they could have said or done or how they can
handle the situation better in the future. Make sure they know when they are
doing what you want as well. Give specific praise instead of generalized
things like good job. It is true I suppose what other posters said about the
parents, but I still think you can be a huge influence in a students life
and you can also be a huge influence for the other teachers at the school
concerning what they should expect from your student. You want to make sure
that you are an uplifting influence and that you are giving the right cues
to other teachers in the school who will pick up on your relationship to the
student, how you treat the student, and what types of expectations you have.
Sabra Ewing
> On Nov 30, 2015, at 9:23 PM, Jon Yaggie via Blindmath
<blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> I had no idea what i planned to do either. However i also was not
encouraged to do anything. While other students received academic
counseling, no one even explained the process of applying to university.
My TVI took me to one career fair that suggested a service industry job may
be appropriate. In general we need to do better guiding all students to
explore and assess their strengths and weaknesses. While all students may
not know what to do with their lives, certainly students should not be
confused because educators do not properly do their job.
>
>
> Jon Yaggie
> EYH Chicago Coordinator
> UIC Mathematics
>
>> On Nov 30, 2015, at 20:44, Suzanne Germano via Blindmath
<blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> This is interesting because I was/am in the same boat. I have not had
this
>> dream career since I was 6 or 12 or 16. Yet, I have found that many do.
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 7:01 PM, Amanda Lacy via Blindmath <
>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Does anybody ever really know what they want to do when they grow up?
>>> I've met a few who say they knew from when they were little kids, but
>>> those are exceedingly rare. Asking me that same question over and over
>>> and over again did not help me out one bit. All I ever did was go to
>>> school, go home, go to school, go home...I had no knowledge of the
>>> world and had never been exposed to computer programming either. Being
>>> exposed to real things is much more useful than being repeatedly asked
>>> hypothetical questions.
>>>
>>> Amanda
>>>
>>>> On 11/30/15, Sarah Jevnikar via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> Great points! Also someone brought up parents as a detriment. As a camp
>>>> counsellor for blind kids this past summer, I can?t agree more. There
are
>>>> plenty of parents who hesitate to teach their kids to tie their own
shoes
>>>> let alone think of a career?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: Jonathon Yaggie [mailto:jyaggi2 at uic.edu]
>>>> Sent: November-30-15 7:59 PM
>>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>>> Cc: Sarah Jevnikar
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have been opting out of this conversation, because I am knee-deep in
>>>> postdoc applications. However, after reading Sarah's comments, I would
>>> like
>>>> to second her thoughts regarding career/educational planning.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am on the boarder of being legally blind; therefore, I am fairly high
>>>> functioning. With that said, low expectations by educators including
my
>>> TVI
>>>> were disheartening at the least. All my aptitude tests were consistent
>>> - I
>>>> should be a scientist or researcher. Yet my TVI refused to see me
after
>>> age
>>>> 15, I did not show appreciation for her talking down to me. Her
primary
>>>> focus before that had been "assignments", most of which were essays
on
>>> how
>>>> I could better integrate with "normal" students. Academics were next
>>>> considered or discussed. I had not academic accommodations until
>>> college.
>>>> That is not to say I did not have an IEP, simply that the only thing on
>>> it
>>>> was that I see a social worker.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> With hindsight, I should have pursued medical research. However, this
>>> was
>>>> not even considered an option. Also i realize now, we do a disservice
>>> to
>>>> many students both sighted and visually impaired, by having low
>>>> expectations. My son who has the same condition, complains endlessly
>>> about
>>>> my high expectations. :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jon Yaggie
>>>>
>>>> UIC Mathematics
>>>>
>>>> Expanding Your Horizons Chicago Coordinator
>>>>
>>>> Keep up with EYH Chicago on Facebook
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ExpandingYourHorizonsChicago> and Twitter
>>>> <http://www.twitter.com/@EYH_chicago>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 6:40 PM, Sarah Jevnikar via Blindmath
>>>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This is an interesting discussion topic.
>>>>
>>>> My TVI in high school did the following for me:
>>>> - find titles of texts prior to my taking the relevant courses and
>>> ordering
>>>> them
>>>> - create Braille handouts and tests with diagrams as needed (usually
with
>>>> fabric paint)
>>>> - transcribe my tests orally as I Brailled them in Nemeth and she
>>> couldn't
>>>> read it
>>>>
>>>> I went into first year without knowing how much I needed to do myself:
>>> pick
>>>> courses early enough to order textbooks early enough so they could be
>>>> transcribed; order them once instructors gave me their info (which
could
>>> be
>>>> slow in coming); translate my homework from Nemeth to text (I use
>>> Nemetex as
>>>> needed but probably should learn LaTeX but struggle with the confusing
>>>> literature). Fortunately I had contacts who could help with Brailling
>>> tests
>>>> and diagrams for those tests, but otherwise I would have been out of
>>> luck. I
>>>> still don't get tactile diagrams unless I ask a classmate, teaching
>>>> assistant or instructor to help make them. Thankfully I was used to
>>>> transcribing tests orally when software failed or wasn't available.
>>>>
>>>> The trick is too that in high school, no student has to find their own
>>> texts
>>>> or reading materials. So all students face that hurdle. But blind
>>> students
>>>> have greater difficulty in the sense that the readings they need must
be
>>>> scanned and hopefully are readable at that point. It's a lengthy
process
>>> and
>>>> I still don't have a good solution.
>>>>
>>>> I might point out too that my choice of university program was dictated
>>> by
>>>> the accommodations I thought I could get. I might have studied biology
>>> but
>>>> feared the lab setting as a totlally blind student.
>>>>
>>>> In short, I would encourage every TVI to try to get their students to
>>> think
>>>> about what they want to do as a career, then help them plan for it.
>>> Biology?
>>>> Sure! Just talk to someone at a local university to get ideas for
>>>> accommodations well in advance. Have students do as much as they can
>>> without
>>>> TVI assistance - in the university and real world settings they'll have
>>>> advocates perhaps, but not anyone to help with the day-to-day aspects
of
>>>> their education, unless they're able to get funding to pay them.
>>>>
>>>> I hope this made some sense,
>>>> Sarah
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>> Amanda
>>>> Lacy via Blindmath
>>>> Sent: November-30-15 6:38 PM
>>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>>>
>>>> Cc: Amanda Lacy
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
>>>>
>>>> I want a job so that everything will stop changing every semester. I
>>> intend
>>>> to work as a programmer, doing I have no idea what. Apparently I was
>>>> supposed to explore that in school, but I've learned not to explore in
>>>> school.
>>>>
>>>> Several people tell me to avoid environments like agile programming
since
>>>> for the most part I can't work in groups. I'm now aware of some things
to
>>>> avoid, but not the things I should look for.
>>>>
>>>> Amanda
>>>>
>>>>> On 11/30/15, Vincent Martin via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
wrote:
>>>>> I, along with other friends, actually have had much better
>>>>> accessibility in the private sector! I am fifty-one years old and my
>>>>> Ph.D is my fifth different STEM degree. I have had many, many, jobs
>>>>> in the private sector, state and local government, the Federal
>>>>> government, and as a private consultant. The private sector normally
>>>>> understands accessibility better and lawsuits are much more damaging
>>>>> to a private corporation. I can say this from the fact that I also
>>>>> have served as an expert witness in fourteen cases so far. The worst
>>>>> offenders have been schools and the Federal "Government. I also serve
>>>>> as an accessibility consultant for companies and accessibility is a
>>>>> really hot topic right now. I make $2100 a month as a graduate
>>>>> research assistant and made three times that amount last year
>>>>> assisting "private" companies on making systems and jobs as accessible
>>>>> as possible. I literally worked two total weeks during the breaks
>>>>> from my semesters on these projects. One client who can't be named is
>>>>> very good at accommodating its employees as they age as a middle-level
>>>>> manger that leaves to early retirement takes about a million dollars
>>>>> out the door in institutional knowledge. Their biggest problem (they
>>>>> are a Fortune 200
>>>>> company) is getting people to self-disclose their disability. When I
>>>>> showed them back in 2004 how much money they were losing to lost
>>>>> productivity to hidden disabilities, they were floored. They have
>>>>> spent over ten years attempting to keep their employees and to hire
>>>>> qualified employees with disabilities. In 2005, I convinced them not
>>>>> to start a customer service program for blind employees. Instead,
>>>>> they try to hire very qualified employs, disability or not, and then
>>>>> provide them with the best support possible.
>>>>>
>>>>> That blind engineer that got her M.B.A. at Drexel lost her vision
>>>>> while she was working for a private employer. The State Voc Rehab
>>>>> people were unable to solve her accessibility problem, but we blind
>>>>> people did. I, along with a Freedom Scientific tech support
>>>>> specialist, solved the interface problem with her mainframe over the
>>>>> phone. She was re-hired and my research lab at the Veterans
>>>>> Administration "stole" her from her. She had a pain in the butt
>>>>> getting all of her equipment, such as an oscilloscope that attached to
>>>>> a computer. The Feds said that it was not assistive technology,
>>>>> because anyone could use it. Our supervisor bought it out of his
>>>>> discretionary funds. At both of her private sector jobs, the
>>>>> assistive technology showed up even when she did not ask for it. When
>>>>> she left for the Feds, she hated to give up her Braille Note PK. It,
>>>> along with all types of devices would just be delivered out of the
blue.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>> Jeremy via Blindmath
>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 3:43 PM
>>>>> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
>>>>> Cc: Jeremy
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
>>>>>
>>>>> While all this is great, what are these blind PhD students going to do
>>>>> when they join the workforce and all these teams of individuals are no
>>>>> longer available to insure accessibility of work related materials.
>>>>> Believe me, you're not going to sick the government on your private
>>> sector
>>>> employer.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now having left university life long ago, it is amazing to me how
>>>>> different the real world really functions as opposed to the
>>>>> pseudo-utopia in these educational institutions.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>> vincent martin via Blindmath
>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 12:03 PM
>>>>> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
>>>>> Cc: vincent martin
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
>>>>>
>>>>> Amanda,
>>>>> I will get back to the TVI topic, but wanted to lend you an arm of
>>>> support!
>>>>> The way you expressed yourself is the way in which so many blind
>>>>> students feel each and every quarter/semester. Don't let your bad
>>>>> experiences stop you from going further if you so desire. I am sure
>>>>> we can find a graduate program at a school that would gladly have and
>>>>> accommodate you! If a school starts to accommodate students and gets
>>>>> ones that are successful, then they start expecting them to show up.
>>>>> That has started to occur at North Carolina State where they have had
>>>>> two blind Ph.D. students in Computer Science recently. Maybe we can
>>>>> start a list/database of schools that have done a good job of making
>>>>> STEM related curriculum accessible. That would be a great benefit to
>>>>> students considering which schools to attend in the future.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am the first totally blind student in the history of Georgia Tech.
>>>>> Although things were terrible when I got here as far as accessibility
>>>>> is concerned, I have done whatever I can to open the doors to the ones
>>>>> that follow me. That included filing complaints with the Department
>>>>> of Education. Things got much better once the Feds showed up! We
>>>>> even have a new disability access policy that has been publically
>>>>> circulated for open comment before it becomes standard institute
>>>>> policy. Last year I encountered a visually impaired student at the
>>>>> Empowering Blind students in STEM workshop sponsored by DO-IT at the
>>>>> University of Washington. He was interested in the Ph.D. program in
>>>>> Biomedical Engineering here. He was accepted and enrolled this Fall
and
>>>> all of his documents are accessible!
>>>>>
>>>>> We now have a professional on campus who is responsible for making
>>>>> sure our documents are converted into the format we need in a timely
>>>>> manner. PDF documents can be converted with OCR software to a
>>>>> readable format either Word or .PDF and she will even re-format
>>>>> tables into readable formats. We can get descriptions of images and
>>>>> or tactile diagrams created. Those are usually outsourced to AMAC
>>>>> Accessible Solutions which is an organization based on campus that
>>>>> makes content accessible to all colleges and universities in the state
>>>>> system and has partner institutions all over the country. I have seen
>>>>> them get an entire college level Math book transcribed into Braille in
>>>>> less than a month. They now also convert documents into Math ML as
>>>>> well. I am getting two Statistics books converted right now.
>>>>>
>>>>> The network of people that you meet can also be of assistance,
>>>>> depending upon the situation. I was fortunate that my advisor was an
>>>>> acquaintance of mine before I applied. His lab does research into
>>>>> assistive technology and the other students in the lab just help me
>>>>> because it is the right thing to do. One of them is the person that
>>>>> created the descriptions for Zack at Mississippi state a few weeks
>>>>> ago. The others love to have me in a class with them as they know
>>>>> that the PDF documents for studying will now be readable! Sighted
>>>>> students get crappy stuff (bad scan of a bad copy) and many now use
the
>>>> text to speech engine in Acrobat Reader to read their
>>>>> materials. . My fellow lab mates also created the first totally
>>>>> accessible
>>>>> fantasy football league just so I could play with them. After using
>>>>> up the ESPN seed grant, they did it as a side project and did anything
>>>>> to make it relevant to our research goals. We have had one
>>>>> publication, one CSUN presentation, and two more current journal
>>>>> submissions concerning the data collected from our projects and
>>>>> studies. These are the same people that know to ask me if I have a
>>>>> text copy of any book that they are using for research. They know
>>>>> that many hundred page printed book on their desk is not nearly as
>>>>> useful as the electronic one I have. Sometimes, we have the print
>>>>> book on the table next to a computer with the electronic one when we
are
>>>> writing papers and citing our references.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is a constant fight for most of us, but there Aare some schools
>>>>> that do such a great job that is actually surprising. I had a former
>>>>> student just graduate from the M.B.A. program at Drexel as an almost
>>>>> totally blind student and the school went out of their way to
>>>>> accommodate her. They even ended up contracting with a second company
>>>>> to insure her Statistics and Economics books were accessible to her.
>>>>> She got accessible .PDF's and tactile maps and graduated on time. She
>>>>> had completed a degree in Electrical Engineering when she was sighted,
>>>>> but she says that the accommodations at Drexel, especially from her
>>>>> professors, is what made her graduate program enjoyable.
>>>>>
>>>>> I spoke with a very low-vision TVI friend of mine yesterday that
>>>>> wishes she had a student that was STEM interested or was at the level
>>>>> that she had to provide some of the things we have been discussing.
>>>>> She moves between six middle and high schools in our county and does
>>>>> not have any of her students who have gotten past pre-Calculus. The
>>>>> higher functioning ones are usually low-vision and the rest stop at
>>> basic
>>>> high school Math and Science.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the other hand, I have another TVI in a county North of Atlanta
>>>>> that has assisted in making every STEM related course in high school
>>>> accessible.
>>>>> She
>>>>> has seen students go on to the University of Georgia in Genetics and
>>>>> to Duke, Emory, and Wake Forrest in other STEM related fields.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>> Amanda Lacy via Blindmath
>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 1:18 PM
>>>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>>>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Cc: Amanda Lacy <lacy925 at gmail.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
>>>>>
>>>>>> University ought to be enjoyable and not be like standing on a beach
>>>>>> watching a tidal wave coming, especially for those that can't see it.
>>>>>
>>>>> But that's exactly how it is, at least for me. Just as I'm starting to
>>>>> gain my balance again I'm knocked over by another wave. People are
>>>>> telling me I should explore, have fun, and enjoy the challenge, but
>>>>> all I have time for is survival. I experience no joy, not anymore.
>>>>> Meanwhile, the sighted ones are all talking about what they want to
>>>>> take next semester like it's some great adventure. It's always some
>>>>> course I couldn't dream of taking because I can't read the textbooks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, I'm fully aware of LaTeX. Usually I have to beg for it, and I
>>>>> don't always get it. And y'all should see some of the barely-usable
>>>>> LaTeX I've received. It wasn't much better than no LaTeX at all.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are also plenty of CS courses about graphics, but none about
>>> sound.
>>>>> They poison everything with graphics.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm graduating with a bachelors in CS in May, and I don't think I'm
>>>>> ever going back.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry for the reality, guys.
>>>>>
>>>>> Amanda
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11/30/15, Godfrey, Jonathan via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd like all professionals in the business of helping students ask
>>>>>> their former students what things they actively did that left them
>>>>>> unprepared for university. This is not really covered by the
>>>>>> questions posed in Maureen's message.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All too often I am observing 18-20 year old blind people lack
>>>>>> independence and confidence and therefore struggle at university. The
>>>>>> support mechanisms they had on hand during high school are no longer
>>>>>> there; the disability support systems are not ready to help them; and
>>>>>> the educators they must work with have even less idea. The issues are
>>>>>> even further compounded in the STEM fields where so many additional
>>>>>> skills
>>>>> are needed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In particular, I'd like to have seen more of the students I've come
>>>>>> across gain experience preparing their own homework during high
>>>>>> school so that they have experience before they get to university
>>>>>> where there are so many other new things to have to deal with.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> University ought to be enjoyable and not be like standing on a beach
>>>>>> watching a tidal wave coming, especially for those that can't see it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jonathan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>> derek riemer via Blindmath
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 1 December 2015 5:41 a.m.
>>>>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>>>>> Cc: derek riemer
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> If your student is planning to pursue a stem degree, then introduce
>>>>>> them to la tex a bit. They should learn it asap as a college student
>>>>>> because many stem materials may be more accessible in la tex format.
>>>>>> Also, ensure that they know nemeth braille. It is insane how many
>>>>>> people I know don't know nemeth braille, and it is essential to have
>>>>> tactile feedback of the math.
>>>>>> Also, having them transcribe math to you as well as having them use a
>>>>>> tool like nemetex will help them ensure they are prepared for the
>>>>>> process of converting math in college. I don't know anyone in a
>>>>>> college setting who can have a tvi or someone interline their
>>>>>> homework. It is essential to learn how to verbally transcribe
>>>>>> homework, especially in more complex courses. You can mostly survive
>>>>>> calc 1 and 2 with a tool like nemetex, but in upper level courses
>>>>>> such as linear algebra, I found it necessary to use paper with
>>>>>> braille to even understand the material. Some of it is spacial enough
>>>>>> that the tech isn't quite ready to present the math correctly. Also,
>>>>>> without a transcriber to transcribe (verbally I read them what I
>>>>>> wanted them to
>>>>>> write) math in linear algebra, it meant at least 3 hours of typing
>>>>>> out the matrices in la tex. This is compared to half an hour reading
>>>>>> it to someone who was skilled at writing that level of math.
>>>>>> Hth.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 11/30/2015 8:07 AM, Lewicki, Maureen via Blindmath wrote:
>>>>>>> Good morning! I am a TVI of some great and capable students. Would
>>>>>>> you do me a favor? Could you reflect back on your high school years
>>>>>>> and let me
>>>>>>> know:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Did you have a TVI supporting you?
>>>>>>> What did he/she do to prepare you for college and career?
>>>>>>> What do you regret the TVI did not do to prepare you?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for your input! My career is not long enough to make all my
>>>>>>> own mistakes! I would rather learn from others' mistakes and
>>> strengths!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maureen Murphy Lewicki
>>>>>>> Teacher of the Visually Impaired
>>>>>>> Bethlehem Central School District
>>>>>>> Bethlehem High School
>>>>>>> 700 Delaware Ave
>>>>>>> Delmar, NY 12054
>>>>>>> http://www.bethlehemschools.org<http://www.bethlehemschools.org/>
>>>>>>> Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through
>>>>>>> experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened,
>>>>>>> ambition inspired, and success
>>>>>>> achieved.<http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/30186.html> Helen
>>>>>>> Keller
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>>>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> Blindmath:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%
>>>>>>> <
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/derek.riemer%25>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 4
>>>>>>> 0 colorado.edu BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>>>>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> -
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Derek Riemer
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
>>>>>> * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
>>>>>> * Open source enthusiast.
>>>>>> * Member of Bridge Cu
>>>>>> * Avid skiier.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Websites:
>>>>>> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.drupalgardens.com>
>>>>>> Non-proffessional website.
>>>>>> <http://derekriemer.pythonanywhere.com/personal>
>>>>>> Awesome little hand built weather app that rocks!
>>>>>> <http://derekriemer.pythonanywhere.com/weather>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu
>>>>>> <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
>>>>>> Phone: (303) 906-2194 <tel:%28303%29%20906-2194>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> Blindmath:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/a.j.godfrey%40
>>>>>> m
>>>>>> assey.ac.nz
>>>>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>>>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> Blindmath:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/lacy925%40gmai
>>>>>> l
>>>>>> .com
>>>>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>>>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Blindmath:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/vincent.martin%
>>>>> <
>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/vincent.martin%25>
>>>>>
>>>>> 40gate
>>>>> ch.edu
>>>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Blindmath:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/jeremy.richards
>>>>> 7%40gm
>>>>> ail.com
>>>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Blindmath:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/vincent.martin%
>>>>> <
>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/vincent.martin%25>
>>>>>
>>>>> 40gate
>>>>> ch.edu
>>>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Blindmath:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/lacy925%40gmail
>>>>> .com
>>>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Blindmath:
>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40mail
>>>> .utoronto.ca
>>>>
>>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Blindmath:
>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/jyaggi2%40uic.edu
>>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Blindmath:
>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/lacy925%40gmail.com
>>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Blindmath mailing list
>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Blindmath:
>>>
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>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <
>>> http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
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Message: 8
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 22:42:30 -0700
From: annajee82 at gmail.com
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
Message-ID: <D8BBA922-F8D1-4468-99B3-11F6FEE01354 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Maureen,
I applaud your dedication to preparing your students. If only everyone did
this...
Thank you for asking.
I don't know how much help I will be because I did not have a TVI or
anything like that in high school as I had significant vision then and used
it just fine. but I am in college now and no longer have that. I am
majoring in neuroscience. And I feel completely overwhelmed. It is not the
fault of anyone at my high school, obviously, but how great it would have
been if i had been able to have someone help prepare me for everything I
would have to deal with as a blind college student and more specifically, a
blind STEM student.
If you know or can find out very specifically what is required of blind
college students then I think you could teach those skills to your students.
In college nothing should be expected. Perhaps accomodationsare provided,
but even if they are, they are usually not very helpful and you have to
accommodate yourself.
These are things I have to do in college, and if I have to do them in
college, students should already know how to do these things when they
arrive. The complexity of trying to learn how to do them in addition to
learning all the material you have to learn in college anyway, is, I would
say, one of the most difficult things I have done in my life.
Things I do in college:
Find books that work for me,
Read and write math,
Deal with graphics,
Communicate effectively with professors who have great misunderstandings
about blindness and accomodations, read and create presentations such as
powerpoints,
Write papers containing graphs, tables, spreadsheets, mathematical work,
work with a reader (which is not as easy as it may seem, and actually
requires skill and experience),
Manage time effectively,
Work in groups with students that try to work around me,
Know what accomodationswork best for me,
Communicate how to make things accessible to the Disabilty office staff
(although they should know, they dont actually tend to),
Or learn how to work around them,
Work with complex scientific and graphing calculators,
Navigate and enter complex material online,
Mostly what I am having to do is learn to be creative, and unfortunately I
am having to educate and train the people hired to accommodate me. This is
extremely difficult when I am new to this and really have little idea of how
things work. So I guess I would say give your students as much training as
you can so that they know how to accommodate themselves. You may do it for
them, but they should be familiar enough with the process to be able to
explain to you how to do it.
Of course, I am not entirely certain how things work for blind kids in k-12,
and I'm not sure this is really what you were asking for. But hopefully you
can get something from this message.
Thanks,
Anna
> On Nov 30, 2015, at 8:07 AM, Lewicki, Maureen via Blindmath
<blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> Good morning! I am a TVI of some great and capable students. Would you do
me a favor? Could you reflect back on your high school years and let me
know:
>
> Did you have a TVI supporting you?
> What did he/she do to prepare you for college and career?
> What do you regret the TVI did not do to prepare you?
>
> Thanks for your input! My career is not long enough to make all my own
mistakes! I would rather learn from others' mistakes and strengths!!
>
> Maureen Murphy Lewicki
> Teacher of the Visually Impaired
> Bethlehem Central School District
> Bethlehem High School
> 700 Delaware Ave
> Delmar, NY 12054
> http://www.bethlehemschools.org<http://www.bethlehemschools.org/>
> Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience
of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, ambition inspired, and
success achieved.<http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/30186.html> Helen
Keller
>
>
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