[Blindmath] Mathematics using handwriting

Sabra Ewing sabra1023 at gmail.com
Tue Jan 27 01:01:45 UTC 2015 

I like tables. They help me understand the data a lot better than graphs.I like audio graphs to, but they can be harder to use because they are newer and can't be used in as versatile of the way and less you have it that new expensive graphing calculator.

Sabra Ewing

> On Jan 26, 2015, at 1:19 PM, Sean Tikkun via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Shannon,
> 
>    Thank you for bringing up the use of tables. I was exploring this with a student I was tutoring a couple years ago. It blew my mind when he read the table and the graph simultaneously using two hands! Kinda fun seeing my student do something a sighted person can’t do.
> 
>    Tables contain all the same data as a graph and at times more. They are just more cumbersome at times for individuals who are graphically oriented.
> 
> 
> Sean Tikkun
> Fellow, National Leadership Consortium in Sensory Disabilities
> Northern Illinois University
> 
> stikkun at niu.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jan 21, 2015, at 4:50 PM, Shannon Pruitt via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Just so everyone is clear, I at no point was talking about describing graphs.  I thought we only talking about mathematical text such as equations or formulas.  Also, I would say that pretty much everything that is represented graphically and visually can be represented without the visual through he actual math such as a table.  Also, I know that isn’t always sufficient, but you should always have a variety of tools in your toolbox.  
>> 
>> ——
>> shannon 
>> 
>>> On Jan 21, 2015, at 4:06 PM, Paul Topping <pault at dessci.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> The understanding of a mathematical equation from only its spoken form is not really analogous to understanding a graph from only its verbal description. Mathematical notation is really just fancy text. It has a well-defined reading order and is regularly spoken by sighted people, though usually only in parallel with the visual representation. It is true that it is harder to understand math from only spoken text, such text is very much the actual equation, not a description of it.
>>> 
>>> Paul Topping
>>> 
>>> Design Science, Inc.
>>> "How Science Communicates"
>>> Makers of MathType, MathFlow, MathPlayer, Equation Editor
>>> http://www.dessci.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: joe walker via Blindmath [mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org]
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2015 12:43 PM
>>>> To: Shannon Pruitt; Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Mathematics using handwriting
>>>> 
>>>> I still wonder though how it is on a computer or mobile device, would
>>>> it be possible to interpret graphical data without having to resort
>>>> entirely to having to ask someone to attempt a visual description. I
>>>> have determined from experience, that even asking a reader to describe
>>>> what he or she sees on a graph, in order to answer a quiz or exam
>>>> question, is very difficult since he or she may incorrectly describe
>>>> the appearance of the visual aid. This has actually resulted in blind
>>>> and visually impaired students giving incorrect answers based on
>>>> unknowingly false information. Since such errors have been known to
>>>> exist even in simple algebra, leads me to question whether we have a
>>>> universally accepted system for allowing blind students to comprehend
>>>> graphical information, such as wavefunctions, derivatives and
>>>> integrals, and frequency data involving peaks and troths, just to name
>>>> a few examples. Given that the vast majority of science and math test
>>>> questions require the examination of a visual aid, I would love to
>>>> hear your feedback on this issue.
>>>> 
>>>> Joe
>>>> 
>>>>> On 1/21/15, Shannon Pruitt via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> I apologize as I slightly misread the original email and you are correct
>>>>> MathPad is not accessible. However that doesn't altogether mean it
>>>> wouldn't
>>>>> be useful.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think you have a couple of options. I would suggest talking to your
>>>>> teacher as he/she probably knows either latex or MathML if not both. They
>>>>> could pre or post type the notes for you and send them to you. Also maybe
>>>>> the department has a TA that could do this.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Another option would be to consult your disabilities office and get a person
>>>>> to take notes for you. In this case I'm positive they won't know latex or
>>>>> MathML but something like this app might help them create it or get it to
>>>>> you in a pinch.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sorry about the confusion. Shannon
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jan 21, 2015, at 11:57 AM, Hajas Dániel <d.hajas.lists at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The MathType way of doing it seems a bit too much of procedure if you
>>>> just
>>>>>> want to play around with few line of equations and not even use it later
>>>>>> on. Just a quick sketch of math to remind yourself.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Shannon: The iOS app sounded nice and I downloaded but can't use it for
>>>>>> anything. All the buttons are dimmed and Voice Over does not seem to
>>>>>> recognise any edit field. Have you used it? How can I make it work with
>>>>>> VoiceOver?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The features sound nice and even the LaTeX output might come handy
>>>> every
>>>>>> now and then.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Daniel
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 21 Jan 2015, at 16:38, Shannon Pruitt <sdpruitt99 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> There's an iOS app called MathPad that will allow one to write math
>>>>>>> symbols. It then digitizes it and you can get latex or MathML output that
>>>>>>> could then be read by math player (I think).
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Shannon
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Jan 21, 2015, at 9:06 AM, Theodor Loots via Blindmath
>>>>>>>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I know that MathType (from Design Science) supports input using the
>>>>>>>> hand-written interface of Windows 7 and 8.  If your equations are
>>>>>>>> recognised, you can easily use the Toggle TeX functionality of
>>>> MathType
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> view the equation in LaTeX, or export the entire document as a
>>>> webpage,
>>>>>>>> where the formulae can be read using the MathPlayer plugin.
>>>>>>>> Alternatively,
>>>>>>>> the recognised formulae can be read using LEAN, or the entire
>>>> document
>>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>>> be exported to some appropriate Braille translation software (which
>>>> can
>>>>>>>> handle MathType equations).
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>> t
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>> Hajas
>>>>>>>> Dániel via Blindmath
>>>>>>>> Sent: 21 January 2015 03:11 PM
>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
>>>>>>>> Subject: [Blindmath] Mathematics using handwriting
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Today our lecturer in quantum mechanics used a software that allowed
>>>> her
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> use a pen and write on a screen, which then was projected on a board,
>>>> so
>>>>>>>> students can take notes at the lecture. This is like a digital
>>>>>>>> blackboard
>>>>>>>> except that people have to write on a computer screen.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I was wondering if something similar existed for applications with
>>>>>>>> screen
>>>>>>>> readers? A software for PC, an app for tablets or smartphones, or other
>>>>>>>> alternative solution.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> The point would be to enable handwritten input of mainly
>>>> mathematical
>>>>>>>> symbols that can be read by a screen reader while writing character by
>>>>>>>> character and afterward while browsing through lines.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I imagine something like the handwriting option in iOS. I often use that
>>>>>>>> function for writing shorter texts even if it is not the fastest and
>>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>>> reliable way of writing, simply because I find handwriting a some form
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> art. Also when I get fed up with pressing the keyboard I use a notepad
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> write down my equations and derive what I need. Obviously there is no
>>>>>>>> feedback, I can't read it back after, but it helps me in following a
>>>>>>>> mental
>>>>>>>> process.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> So I would be pleased to see a solution which enables me to use
>>>>>>>> handwritten
>>>>>>>> maths and I could even read back what I wrote. Editing wouldn't be
>>>>>>>> esential
>>>>>>>> at the beginning.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I even guess the iOS feature could be turned into an app of what I just
>>>>>>>> described above.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Do you know of anything along these lines?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Daniel
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>> m
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>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
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