[Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?

Mon Nov 30 21:57:24 UTC 2015

School is very different than work. Work is a lot more flexible and you can pick a job that you will do well at. Also, there might be some cases where someone in the workplace would have to make materials accessible because you can't scan like mass for example. I know of some blind professors who have to work with someone else in the department to get accessible materials at times.

Sabra Ewing

> On Nov 30, 2015, at 2:43 PM, Jeremy via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> While all this is great, what are these blind PhD students going to do when
> they join the workforce and all these teams of individuals are no longer
> available to insure accessibility of work related materials. Believe me,
> you're not going to sick the government on your private sector employer. 
> 
> Now having left university life long ago, it is amazing to me how different
> the real world really functions as opposed to the pseudo-utopia in these
> educational institutions. 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of vincent
> martin via Blindmath
> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 12:03 PM
> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
> Cc: vincent martin
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
> 
> Amanda,
> I will get back to the TVI topic, but wanted to lend you an arm of support!
> The way you expressed yourself is the way in which so many blind students
> feel each and every quarter/semester.  Don't let your bad experiences stop
> you from going further if you so desire.  I am sure we can find a graduate
> program at a school that would gladly have and accommodate you!  If a school
> starts to accommodate students and gets ones that are successful, then they
> start expecting them to show up.  That has started to occur at North
> Carolina State where they have had two blind Ph.D. students in Computer
> Science recently.  Maybe we can start a list/database of schools that have
> done a good job of making STEM related curriculum accessible.  That would be
> a great benefit to students considering which schools to attend in the
> future.    
> 
> I am the first totally blind student in the history of Georgia Tech.
> Although things were terrible when I got here as far as accessibility is
> concerned, I have done whatever I can to open the doors to the ones that
> follow me.  That included filing complaints with the Department of
> Education.  Things got much better once the Feds showed up!  We even have a
> new disability access policy that has been publically circulated for open
> comment before it becomes standard institute policy.  Last year I
> encountered a visually impaired student at the Empowering Blind students in
> STEM workshop sponsored by DO-IT at the University of Washington.  He was
> interested in the Ph.D. program in Biomedical Engineering here.  He was
> accepted and enrolled this Fall and all of his documents are accessible!
> 
> We now have a professional on campus who is responsible for making sure our
> documents are converted into the format we need in a timely manner.  PDF
> documents can be converted with OCR software to a readable format either
> Word or .PDF  and she will even re-format tables into readable formats.  We
> can get descriptions of images and or tactile diagrams created.  Those are
> usually outsourced to AMAC Accessible Solutions which is an organization
> based on campus that makes content accessible to all colleges and
> universities in the state system and has partner institutions all over the
> country.  I have seen them get an entire college level Math book transcribed
> into Braille in less than a month.  They now also convert documents into
> Math ML as well.  I am getting two Statistics books converted right now.  
> 
> The network of people that you meet can also be of assistance, depending
> upon the situation.  I was fortunate that my advisor was an acquaintance of
> mine before I applied.  His lab does research into assistive technology and
> the other students in the lab just help me because it is the right thing to
> do.  One of them is the person that created the descriptions for Zack at
> Mississippi state a few weeks ago.  The others love to have me in a class
> with them as they know that the PDF documents for studying will now be
> readable!  Sighted students get crappy stuff (bad scan of a bad copy) and
> many now use the text to speech engine in Acrobat Reader to read their
> materials. .   My fellow lab mates also created the first totally accessible
> fantasy football league just so I could play with them.  After using up the
> ESPN seed grant, they did it as a side project and did anything to make it
> relevant to our research goals.  We have had one publication, one CSUN
> presentation, and two more current journal submissions concerning the data
> collected from our projects and studies.  These are the same people that
> know to ask me if I have a text copy of any book that they are using for
> research.  They know that many hundred page printed book on their desk is
> not nearly as useful as the electronic one I have.  Sometimes, we have the
> print book on the table next to a computer with the electronic one when we
> are writing papers and citing our references.  
> 
> It is a constant fight for most of us, but there Aare some schools that do
> such a great job that is actually surprising.  I had a former student just
> graduate from the M.B.A. program at Drexel as an almost totally blind
> student and the school went out of their way to accommodate her.  They even
> ended up contracting with a second company to insure her Statistics and
> Economics books were accessible to her.  She got accessible .PDF's and
> tactile maps and graduated on time.  She had completed a degree in
> Electrical Engineering when she was sighted, but she says that the
> accommodations at Drexel, especially from her professors, is what made her
> graduate program enjoyable.
> 
> I spoke with a very low-vision TVI friend of mine yesterday that wishes she
> had a student that was STEM interested or was at the level that she had to
> provide some of the things we have been discussing.  She moves between six
> middle and high schools in our county and does not have any of her students
> who have gotten past pre-Calculus.  The higher functioning ones are usually
> low-vision and the rest stop at basic high school Math and Science.
> 
> On the other hand, I have another TVI in a county North of Atlanta that has
> assisted in making every STEM related course in high school accessible.  She
> has seen students go on to the University of Georgia in Genetics and to
> Duke, Emory, and Wake Forrest in other STEM related fields.  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Amanda
> Lacy via Blindmath
> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 1:18 PM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Amanda Lacy <lacy925 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
> 
>> University ought to be enjoyable and not be like standing on a beach 
>> watching a tidal wave coming, especially for those that can't see it.
> 
> But that's exactly how it is, at least for me. Just as I'm starting to gain
> my balance again I'm knocked over by another wave. People are telling me I
> should explore, have fun, and enjoy the challenge, but all I have time for
> is survival. I experience no joy, not anymore.
> Meanwhile, the sighted ones are all talking about what they want to take
> next semester like it's some great adventure. It's always some course I
> couldn't dream of taking because I can't read the textbooks.
> 
> Yes, I'm fully aware of LaTeX. Usually I have to beg for it, and I don't
> always get it. And y'all should see some of the barely-usable LaTeX I've
> received. It wasn't much better than no LaTeX at all.
> 
> There are also plenty of CS courses about graphics, but none about sound.
> They poison everything with graphics.
> 
> I'm graduating with a bachelors in CS in May, and I don't think I'm ever
> going back.
> 
> Sorry for the reality, guys.
> 
> Amanda
> 
>> On 11/30/15, Godfrey, Jonathan via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Hello,
>> 
>> I'd like all professionals in the business of helping students ask 
>> their former students what things they actively did that left them 
>> unprepared for university. This is not really covered by the questions 
>> posed in Maureen's message.
>> 
>> All too often I am observing 18-20 year old blind people lack 
>> independence and confidence and therefore struggle at university. The 
>> support mechanisms they had on hand during high school are no longer 
>> there; the disability support systems are not ready to help them; and 
>> the educators they must work with have even less idea. The issues are 
>> even further compounded in the STEM fields where so many additional 
>> skills
> are needed.
>> 
>> In particular, I'd like to have seen more of the students I've come 
>> across gain experience preparing their own homework during high school 
>> so that they have experience before they get to university where there 
>> are so many other new things to have to deal with.
>> 
>> University ought to be enjoyable and not be like standing on a beach 
>> watching a tidal wave coming, especially for those that can't see it.
>> 
>> Jonathan
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>> derek riemer via Blindmath
>> Sent: Tuesday, 1 December 2015 5:41 a.m.
>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>> Cc: derek riemer
>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
>> 
>> Hi,
>> If your student is planning to pursue a stem degree, then introduce 
>> them to la tex a bit. They should learn it asap as a college student 
>> because many stem materials may be more accessible in la tex format.
>> Also, ensure that they know nemeth braille. It is insane how many 
>> people I know don't know nemeth braille, and it is essential to have
> tactile feedback of the math.
>> Also, having them transcribe math to you as well as having them use a 
>> tool like nemetex will help them ensure they are prepared for the 
>> process of converting math in college. I don't know anyone in a 
>> college setting who can have a tvi or someone interline their 
>> homework. It is essential to learn how to verbally transcribe 
>> homework, especially in more complex courses. You can mostly survive 
>> calc 1 and 2 with a tool like nemetex, but in upper level courses such 
>> as linear algebra, I found it necessary to use paper with braille to 
>> even understand the material. Some of it is spacial enough that the 
>> tech isn't quite ready to present the math correctly. Also, without a 
>> transcriber to transcribe (verbally I read them what I wanted them to
>> write) math in linear algebra, it meant at least 3 hours of typing out 
>> the matrices in la tex. This is compared to half an hour reading it to 
>> someone who was skilled at writing that level of math.
>> Hth.
>> 
>>> On 11/30/2015 8:07 AM, Lewicki, Maureen via Blindmath wrote:
>>> Good morning!  I am a TVI of some great and capable students. Would 
>>> you do me a favor? Could you reflect back on your high school years 
>>> and let me
>>> know:
>>> 
>>> Did you have a TVI supporting you?
>>> What did he/she do to prepare you for college and career?
>>> What do you regret the TVI did not do to prepare you?
>>> 
>>> Thanks for your input! My career is not long enough to make all my 
>>> own mistakes! I would rather learn from others' mistakes and strengths!!
>>> 
>>> Maureen Murphy Lewicki
>>> Teacher of the Visually Impaired
>>> Bethlehem Central School District
>>> Bethlehem High School
>>> 700 Delaware Ave
>>> Delmar, NY 12054
>>> http://www.bethlehemschools.org<http://www.bethlehemschools.org/>
>>> Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through 
>>> experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, 
>>> ambition inspired, and success 
>>> achieved.<http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/30186.html> Helen 
>>> Keller
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
>> --
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>> 
>> 
>>    Derek Riemer
>> 
>>  * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
>>  * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
>>  * Open source enthusiast.
>>  * Member of Bridge Cu
>>  * Avid skiier.
>> 
>> Websites:
>> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.drupalgardens.com>
>> Non-proffessional website. 
>> <http://derekriemer.pythonanywhere.com/personal>
>> Awesome little hand built weather app that rocks!
>> <http://derekriemer.pythonanywhere.com/weather>
>> 
>> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu 
>> <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
>> Phone: (303) 906-2194
>> 
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> 
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