[Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?

Mon Nov 30 23:24:50 UTC 2015

I, along with other friends,  actually have had much better accessibility in
the private sector!  I am fifty-one years old and my Ph.D is my fifth
different STEM degree.  I have had many, many, jobs in the private sector,
state and local government, the Federal government, and as a private
consultant.  The private sector normally understands accessibility better
and lawsuits are much more damaging to a private corporation.  I can say
this from the fact that I also have served as an expert witness in fourteen
cases so far.  The worst offenders have been schools and the Federal
"Government.  I also serve as an accessibility consultant for companies and
accessibility is a really hot topic right now.  I make $2100 a month as a
graduate research assistant and made three times that amount last year
assisting "private" companies on making systems and jobs as accessible as
possible.  I literally worked two total weeks during the breaks from my
semesters on these projects.  One client who can't be named is very good at
accommodating its employees as they age as a middle-level manger that leaves
to early retirement takes about a million dollars out the door in
institutional knowledge.  Their biggest problem (they are a Fortune 200
company) is getting people to self-disclose their disability.  When I showed
them back in 2004 how much money they were losing to lost productivity to
hidden disabilities, they were floored.  They have spent over ten years
attempting to keep their employees and to hire qualified employees with
disabilities.  In 2005, I convinced them not to start a customer service
program for blind employees.  Instead, they try to hire very qualified
employs, disability or not, and then provide them with the best support
possible.

That blind engineer that got her M.B.A. at Drexel lost her vision while she
was working for a private employer.  The State Voc Rehab people were unable
to solve her accessibility problem, but we blind people did.  I, along with
a Freedom Scientific tech support specialist, solved the interface problem
with her mainframe over the phone.  She was re-hired and my research lab at
the Veterans Administration "stole" her from her.  She had a pain in the
butt getting all of her equipment, such as an oscilloscope that attached to
a computer.  The Feds said that it was not assistive technology, because
anyone could use it.  Our supervisor bought it  out of his discretionary
funds.  At both of her private sector jobs, the assistive technology showed
up even when she did not ask for it.  When she left for the Feds, she hated
to give up her Braille Note PK.  It, along with all types of devices would
just be delivered out of the blue. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jeremy
via Blindmath
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 3:43 PM
To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
Cc: Jeremy
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?

While all this is great, what are these blind PhD students going to do when
they join the workforce and all these teams of individuals are no longer
available to insure accessibility of work related materials. Believe me,
you're not going to sick the government on your private sector employer. 

Now having left university life long ago, it is amazing to me how different
the real world really functions as opposed to the pseudo-utopia in these
educational institutions. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of vincent
martin via Blindmath
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 12:03 PM
To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
Cc: vincent martin
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?

Amanda,
I will get back to the TVI topic, but wanted to lend you an arm of support!
The way you expressed yourself is the way in which so many blind students
feel each and every quarter/semester.  Don't let your bad experiences stop
you from going further if you so desire.  I am sure we can find a graduate
program at a school that would gladly have and accommodate you!  If a school
starts to accommodate students and gets ones that are successful, then they
start expecting them to show up.  That has started to occur at North
Carolina State where they have had two blind Ph.D. students in Computer
Science recently.  Maybe we can start a list/database of schools that have
done a good job of making STEM related curriculum accessible.  That would be
a great benefit to students considering which schools to attend in the
future.    

I am the first totally blind student in the history of Georgia Tech.
Although things were terrible when I got here as far as accessibility is
concerned, I have done whatever I can to open the doors to the ones that
follow me.  That included filing complaints with the Department of
Education.  Things got much better once the Feds showed up!  We even have a
new disability access policy that has been publically circulated for open
comment before it becomes standard institute policy.  Last year I
encountered a visually impaired student at the Empowering Blind students in
STEM workshop sponsored by DO-IT at the University of Washington.  He was
interested in the Ph.D. program in Biomedical Engineering here.  He was
accepted and enrolled this Fall and all of his documents are accessible!

We now have a professional on campus who is responsible for making sure our
documents are converted into the format we need in a timely manner.  PDF
documents can be converted with OCR software to a readable format either
Word or .PDF  and she will even re-format tables into readable formats.  We
can get descriptions of images and or tactile diagrams created.  Those are
usually outsourced to AMAC Accessible Solutions which is an organization
based on campus that makes content accessible to all colleges and
universities in the state system and has partner institutions all over the
country.  I have seen them get an entire college level Math book transcribed
into Braille in less than a month.  They now also convert documents into
Math ML as well.  I am getting two Statistics books converted right now.  

The network of people that you meet can also be of assistance, depending
upon the situation.  I was fortunate that my advisor was an acquaintance of
mine before I applied.  His lab does research into assistive technology and
the other students in the lab just help me because it is the right thing to
do.  One of them is the person that created the descriptions for Zack at
Mississippi state a few weeks ago.  The others love to have me in a class
with them as they know that the PDF documents for studying will now be
readable!  Sighted students get crappy stuff (bad scan of a bad copy) and
many now use the text to speech engine in Acrobat Reader to read their
materials. .   My fellow lab mates also created the first totally accessible
fantasy football league just so I could play with them.  After using up the
ESPN seed grant, they did it as a side project and did anything to make it
relevant to our research goals.  We have had one publication, one CSUN
presentation, and two more current journal submissions concerning the data
collected from our projects and studies.  These are the same people that
know to ask me if I have a text copy of any book that they are using for
research.  They know that many hundred page printed book on their desk is
not nearly as useful as the electronic one I have.  Sometimes, we have the
print book on the table next to a computer with the electronic one when we
are writing papers and citing our references.  

It is a constant fight for most of us, but there Aare some schools that do
such a great job that is actually surprising.  I had a former student just
graduate from the M.B.A. program at Drexel as an almost totally blind
student and the school went out of their way to accommodate her.  They even
ended up contracting with a second company to insure her Statistics and
Economics books were accessible to her.  She got accessible .PDF's and
tactile maps and graduated on time.  She had completed a degree in
Electrical Engineering when she was sighted, but she says that the
accommodations at Drexel, especially from her professors, is what made her
graduate program enjoyable.

I spoke with a very low-vision TVI friend of mine yesterday that wishes she
had a student that was STEM interested or was at the level that she had to
provide some of the things we have been discussing.  She moves between six
middle and high schools in our county and does not have any of her students
who have gotten past pre-Calculus.  The higher functioning ones are usually
low-vision and the rest stop at basic high school Math and Science.

On the other hand, I have another TVI in a county North of Atlanta that has
assisted in making every STEM related course in high school accessible.  She
has seen students go on to the University of Georgia in Genetics and to
Duke, Emory, and Wake Forrest in other STEM related fields.  

-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Amanda
Lacy via Blindmath
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 1:18 PM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Amanda Lacy <lacy925 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?

> University ought to be enjoyable and not be like standing on a beach 
> watching a tidal wave coming, especially for those that can't see it.

But that's exactly how it is, at least for me. Just as I'm starting to gain
my balance again I'm knocked over by another wave. People are telling me I
should explore, have fun, and enjoy the challenge, but all I have time for
is survival. I experience no joy, not anymore.
Meanwhile, the sighted ones are all talking about what they want to take
next semester like it's some great adventure. It's always some course I
couldn't dream of taking because I can't read the textbooks.

Yes, I'm fully aware of LaTeX. Usually I have to beg for it, and I don't
always get it. And y'all should see some of the barely-usable LaTeX I've
received. It wasn't much better than no LaTeX at all.

There are also plenty of CS courses about graphics, but none about sound.
They poison everything with graphics.

I'm graduating with a bachelors in CS in May, and I don't think I'm ever
going back.

Sorry for the reality, guys.

Amanda

On 11/30/15, Godfrey, Jonathan via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'd like all professionals in the business of helping students ask 
> their former students what things they actively did that left them 
> unprepared for university. This is not really covered by the questions 
> posed in Maureen's message.
>
> All too often I am observing 18-20 year old blind people lack 
> independence and confidence and therefore struggle at university. The 
> support mechanisms they had on hand during high school are no longer 
> there; the disability support systems are not ready to help them; and 
> the educators they must work with have even less idea. The issues are 
> even further compounded in the STEM fields where so many additional 
> skills
are needed.
>
> In particular, I'd like to have seen more of the students I've come 
> across gain experience preparing their own homework during high school 
> so that they have experience before they get to university where there 
> are so many other new things to have to deal with.
>
> University ought to be enjoyable and not be like standing on a beach 
> watching a tidal wave coming, especially for those that can't see it.
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
> derek riemer via Blindmath
> Sent: Tuesday, 1 December 2015 5:41 a.m.
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> Cc: derek riemer
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
>
> Hi,
> If your student is planning to pursue a stem degree, then introduce 
> them to la tex a bit. They should learn it asap as a college student 
> because many stem materials may be more accessible in la tex format.
> Also, ensure that they know nemeth braille. It is insane how many 
> people I know don't know nemeth braille, and it is essential to have
tactile feedback of the math.
> Also, having them transcribe math to you as well as having them use a 
> tool like nemetex will help them ensure they are prepared for the 
> process of converting math in college. I don't know anyone in a 
> college setting who can have a tvi or someone interline their 
> homework. It is essential to learn how to verbally transcribe 
> homework, especially in more complex courses. You can mostly survive 
> calc 1 and 2 with a tool like nemetex, but in upper level courses such 
> as linear algebra, I found it necessary to use paper with braille to 
> even understand the material. Some of it is spacial enough that the 
> tech isn't quite ready to present the math correctly. Also, without a 
> transcriber to transcribe (verbally I read them what I wanted them to
> write) math in linear algebra, it meant at least 3 hours of typing out 
> the matrices in la tex. This is compared to half an hour reading it to 
> someone who was skilled at writing that level of math.
> Hth.
>
> On 11/30/2015 8:07 AM, Lewicki, Maureen via Blindmath wrote:
>> Good morning!  I am a TVI of some great and capable students. Would 
>> you do me a favor? Could you reflect back on your high school years 
>> and let me
>> know:
>>
>> Did you have a TVI supporting you?
>> What did he/she do to prepare you for college and career?
>> What do you regret the TVI did not do to prepare you?
>>
>> Thanks for your input! My career is not long enough to make all my 
>> own mistakes! I would rather learn from others' mistakes and strengths!!
>>
>> Maureen Murphy Lewicki
>> Teacher of the Visually Impaired
>> Bethlehem Central School District
>> Bethlehem High School
>> 700 Delaware Ave
>> Delmar, NY 12054
>> http://www.bethlehemschools.org<http://www.bethlehemschools.org/>
>> Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through 
>> experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, 
>> ambition inspired, and success 
>> achieved.<http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/30186.html> Helen 
>> Keller
>>
>>
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>
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>
>
>     Derek Riemer
>
>   * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
>   * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
>   * Open source enthusiast.
>   * Member of Bridge Cu
>   * Avid skiier.
>
> Websites:
> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.drupalgardens.com>
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> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu 
> <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
> Phone: (303) 906-2194
>
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