[Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?

Amanda Lacy lacy925 at gmail.com
Mon Nov 30 23:38:17 UTC 2015 

I want a job so that everything will stop changing every semester. I
intend to work as a programmer, doing I have no idea what. Apparently
I was supposed to explore that in school, but I've learned not to
explore in school.

Several people tell me to avoid environments like agile programming
since for the most part I can't work in groups. I'm now aware of some
things to avoid, but not the things I should look for.

Amanda

On 11/30/15, Vincent Martin via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> I, along with other friends,  actually have had much better accessibility
> in
> the private sector!  I am fifty-one years old and my Ph.D is my fifth
> different STEM degree.  I have had many, many, jobs in the private sector,
> state and local government, the Federal government, and as a private
> consultant.  The private sector normally understands accessibility better
> and lawsuits are much more damaging to a private corporation.  I can say
> this from the fact that I also have served as an expert witness in fourteen
> cases so far.  The worst offenders have been schools and the Federal
> "Government.  I also serve as an accessibility consultant for companies and
> accessibility is a really hot topic right now.  I make $2100 a month as a
> graduate research assistant and made three times that amount last year
> assisting "private" companies on making systems and jobs as accessible as
> possible.  I literally worked two total weeks during the breaks from my
> semesters on these projects.  One client who can't be named is very good at
> accommodating its employees as they age as a middle-level manger that
> leaves
> to early retirement takes about a million dollars out the door in
> institutional knowledge.  Their biggest problem (they are a Fortune 200
> company) is getting people to self-disclose their disability.  When I
> showed
> them back in 2004 how much money they were losing to lost productivity to
> hidden disabilities, they were floored.  They have spent over ten years
> attempting to keep their employees and to hire qualified employees with
> disabilities.  In 2005, I convinced them not to start a customer service
> program for blind employees.  Instead, they try to hire very qualified
> employs, disability or not, and then provide them with the best support
> possible.
>
> That blind engineer that got her M.B.A. at Drexel lost her vision while she
> was working for a private employer.  The State Voc Rehab people were unable
> to solve her accessibility problem, but we blind people did.  I, along with
> a Freedom Scientific tech support specialist, solved the interface problem
> with her mainframe over the phone.  She was re-hired and my research lab at
> the Veterans Administration "stole" her from her.  She had a pain in the
> butt getting all of her equipment, such as an oscilloscope that attached to
> a computer.  The Feds said that it was not assistive technology, because
> anyone could use it.  Our supervisor bought it  out of his discretionary
> funds.  At both of her private sector jobs, the assistive technology showed
> up even when she did not ask for it.  When she left for the Feds, she hated
> to give up her Braille Note PK.  It, along with all types of devices would
> just be delivered out of the blue.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jeremy
> via Blindmath
> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 3:43 PM
> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
> Cc: Jeremy
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
>
> While all this is great, what are these blind PhD students going to do when
> they join the workforce and all these teams of individuals are no longer
> available to insure accessibility of work related materials. Believe me,
> you're not going to sick the government on your private sector employer.
>
> Now having left university life long ago, it is amazing to me how different
> the real world really functions as opposed to the pseudo-utopia in these
> educational institutions.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of vincent
> martin via Blindmath
> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 12:03 PM
> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
> Cc: vincent martin
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
>
> Amanda,
> I will get back to the TVI topic, but wanted to lend you an arm of support!
> The way you expressed yourself is the way in which so many blind students
> feel each and every quarter/semester.  Don't let your bad experiences stop
> you from going further if you so desire.  I am sure we can find a graduate
> program at a school that would gladly have and accommodate you!  If a
> school
> starts to accommodate students and gets ones that are successful, then they
> start expecting them to show up.  That has started to occur at North
> Carolina State where they have had two blind Ph.D. students in Computer
> Science recently.  Maybe we can start a list/database of schools that have
> done a good job of making STEM related curriculum accessible.  That would
> be
> a great benefit to students considering which schools to attend in the
> future.
>
> I am the first totally blind student in the history of Georgia Tech.
> Although things were terrible when I got here as far as accessibility is
> concerned, I have done whatever I can to open the doors to the ones that
> follow me.  That included filing complaints with the Department of
> Education.  Things got much better once the Feds showed up!  We even have a
> new disability access policy that has been publically circulated for open
> comment before it becomes standard institute policy.  Last year I
> encountered a visually impaired student at the Empowering Blind students in
> STEM workshop sponsored by DO-IT at the University of Washington.  He was
> interested in the Ph.D. program in Biomedical Engineering here.  He was
> accepted and enrolled this Fall and all of his documents are accessible!
>
> We now have a professional on campus who is responsible for making sure our
> documents are converted into the format we need in a timely manner.  PDF
> documents can be converted with OCR software to a readable format either
> Word or .PDF  and she will even re-format tables into readable formats.  We
> can get descriptions of images and or tactile diagrams created.  Those are
> usually outsourced to AMAC Accessible Solutions which is an organization
> based on campus that makes content accessible to all colleges and
> universities in the state system and has partner institutions all over the
> country.  I have seen them get an entire college level Math book
> transcribed
> into Braille in less than a month.  They now also convert documents into
> Math ML as well.  I am getting two Statistics books converted right now.
>
> The network of people that you meet can also be of assistance, depending
> upon the situation.  I was fortunate that my advisor was an acquaintance of
> mine before I applied.  His lab does research into assistive technology and
> the other students in the lab just help me because it is the right thing to
> do.  One of them is the person that created the descriptions for Zack at
> Mississippi state a few weeks ago.  The others love to have me in a class
> with them as they know that the PDF documents for studying will now be
> readable!  Sighted students get crappy stuff (bad scan of a bad copy) and
> many now use the text to speech engine in Acrobat Reader to read their
> materials. .   My fellow lab mates also created the first totally
> accessible
> fantasy football league just so I could play with them.  After using up the
> ESPN seed grant, they did it as a side project and did anything to make it
> relevant to our research goals.  We have had one publication, one CSUN
> presentation, and two more current journal submissions concerning the data
> collected from our projects and studies.  These are the same people that
> know to ask me if I have a text copy of any book that they are using for
> research.  They know that many hundred page printed book on their desk is
> not nearly as useful as the electronic one I have.  Sometimes, we have the
> print book on the table next to a computer with the electronic one when we
> are writing papers and citing our references.
>
> It is a constant fight for most of us, but there Aare some schools that do
> such a great job that is actually surprising.  I had a former student just
> graduate from the M.B.A. program at Drexel as an almost totally blind
> student and the school went out of their way to accommodate her.  They even
> ended up contracting with a second company to insure her Statistics and
> Economics books were accessible to her.  She got accessible .PDF's and
> tactile maps and graduated on time.  She had completed a degree in
> Electrical Engineering when she was sighted, but she says that the
> accommodations at Drexel, especially from her professors, is what made her
> graduate program enjoyable.
>
> I spoke with a very low-vision TVI friend of mine yesterday that wishes she
> had a student that was STEM interested or was at the level that she had to
> provide some of the things we have been discussing.  She moves between six
> middle and high schools in our county and does not have any of her students
> who have gotten past pre-Calculus.  The higher functioning ones are usually
> low-vision and the rest stop at basic high school Math and Science.
>
> On the other hand, I have another TVI in a county North of Atlanta that has
> assisted in making every STEM related course in high school accessible.
> She
> has seen students go on to the University of Georgia in Genetics and to
> Duke, Emory, and Wake Forrest in other STEM related fields.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Amanda
> Lacy via Blindmath
> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 1:18 PM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Amanda Lacy <lacy925 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
>
>> University ought to be enjoyable and not be like standing on a beach
>> watching a tidal wave coming, especially for those that can't see it.
>
> But that's exactly how it is, at least for me. Just as I'm starting to gain
> my balance again I'm knocked over by another wave. People are telling me I
> should explore, have fun, and enjoy the challenge, but all I have time for
> is survival. I experience no joy, not anymore.
> Meanwhile, the sighted ones are all talking about what they want to take
> next semester like it's some great adventure. It's always some course I
> couldn't dream of taking because I can't read the textbooks.
>
> Yes, I'm fully aware of LaTeX. Usually I have to beg for it, and I don't
> always get it. And y'all should see some of the barely-usable LaTeX I've
> received. It wasn't much better than no LaTeX at all.
>
> There are also plenty of CS courses about graphics, but none about sound.
> They poison everything with graphics.
>
> I'm graduating with a bachelors in CS in May, and I don't think I'm ever
> going back.
>
> Sorry for the reality, guys.
>
> Amanda
>
> On 11/30/15, Godfrey, Jonathan via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'd like all professionals in the business of helping students ask
>> their former students what things they actively did that left them
>> unprepared for university. This is not really covered by the questions
>> posed in Maureen's message.
>>
>> All too often I am observing 18-20 year old blind people lack
>> independence and confidence and therefore struggle at university. The
>> support mechanisms they had on hand during high school are no longer
>> there; the disability support systems are not ready to help them; and
>> the educators they must work with have even less idea. The issues are
>> even further compounded in the STEM fields where so many additional
>> skills
> are needed.
>>
>> In particular, I'd like to have seen more of the students I've come
>> across gain experience preparing their own homework during high school
>> so that they have experience before they get to university where there
>> are so many other new things to have to deal with.
>>
>> University ought to be enjoyable and not be like standing on a beach
>> watching a tidal wave coming, especially for those that can't see it.
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> derek riemer via Blindmath
>> Sent: Tuesday, 1 December 2015 5:41 a.m.
>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>> Cc: derek riemer
>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] how did your TVIs assist you?
>>
>> Hi,
>> If your student is planning to pursue a stem degree, then introduce
>> them to la tex a bit. They should learn it asap as a college student
>> because many stem materials may be more accessible in la tex format.
>> Also, ensure that they know nemeth braille. It is insane how many
>> people I know don't know nemeth braille, and it is essential to have
> tactile feedback of the math.
>> Also, having them transcribe math to you as well as having them use a
>> tool like nemetex will help them ensure they are prepared for the
>> process of converting math in college. I don't know anyone in a
>> college setting who can have a tvi or someone interline their
>> homework. It is essential to learn how to verbally transcribe
>> homework, especially in more complex courses. You can mostly survive
>> calc 1 and 2 with a tool like nemetex, but in upper level courses such
>> as linear algebra, I found it necessary to use paper with braille to
>> even understand the material. Some of it is spacial enough that the
>> tech isn't quite ready to present the math correctly. Also, without a
>> transcriber to transcribe (verbally I read them what I wanted them to
>> write) math in linear algebra, it meant at least 3 hours of typing out
>> the matrices in la tex. This is compared to half an hour reading it to
>> someone who was skilled at writing that level of math.
>> Hth.
>>
>> On 11/30/2015 8:07 AM, Lewicki, Maureen via Blindmath wrote:
>>> Good morning!  I am a TVI of some great and capable students. Would
>>> you do me a favor? Could you reflect back on your high school years
>>> and let me
>>> know:
>>>
>>> Did you have a TVI supporting you?
>>> What did he/she do to prepare you for college and career?
>>> What do you regret the TVI did not do to prepare you?
>>>
>>> Thanks for your input! My career is not long enough to make all my
>>> own mistakes! I would rather learn from others' mistakes and strengths!!
>>>
>>> Maureen Murphy Lewicki
>>> Teacher of the Visually Impaired
>>> Bethlehem Central School District
>>> Bethlehem High School
>>> 700 Delaware Ave
>>> Delmar, NY 12054
>>> http://www.bethlehemschools.org<http://www.bethlehemschools.org/>
>>> Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through
>>> experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened,
>>> ambition inspired, and success
>>> achieved.<http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/30186.html> Helen
>>> Keller
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> 0 colorado.edu BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>
>> --
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>>
>>
>>     Derek Riemer
>>
>>   * Department of computer science, third year undergraduate student.
>>   * Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
>>   * Open source enthusiast.
>>   * Member of Bridge Cu
>>   * Avid skiier.
>>
>> Websites:
>> Honors portfolio <http://derekriemer.drupalgardens.com>
>> Non-proffessional website.
>> <http://derekriemer.pythonanywhere.com/personal>
>> Awesome little hand built weather app that rocks!
>> <http://derekriemer.pythonanywhere.com/weather>
>>
>> email me at derek.riemer at colorado.edu
>> <mailto:derek.riemer at colorado.edu>
>> Phone: (303) 906-2194
>>
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>>
>
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