[Blindmath] {Spam?} Talking Graphing calculator output
Mary Woodyard
marywoodyard at comcast.net
Wed Apr 20 12:45:02 UTC 2016
The talking graphing calculator can output to a computer and then that file
can be sent to an embosser. Whether it is a complete solution would depend
on the type of problem the student needed to solve.
My son first used the talking calculator in high school and this output
issue was important to me at that time so I figured out how he could do it
in his school district. What I learned is that his district did have
embossers and it was possible if we purchased the correct data link cable.
However, for the type of work he did in high school  he never really had to
produce graphs for a teacher to grade  he had to use the information in the
graphs on the calculator to solve equations.
He is taking College Math now and they are solving systems of equations
using determinants or matrix inverses using the graphing calculator and
again  he would not need to show the individual calculator output  but use
it to solve the equation.
In earlier grades, he used an graphing calculator emulator and saved the
output from each file. If your student is using this path, they need to be
very organized as naming the calculator files so that a teacher could follow
how the work was done requires great communication between the teacher and
student. I would think it would be easier if your student is merely taking
the required Math (as opposed to being a Math Major) to have a lab assistant
that the student transcribes his answers to. For a more serious Math
student  they may as well learn the technology that they will need to be
successful in their career.
The solution part though will depend on what the student is required to do
with the graphing calculator.
Original Message
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmathbounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
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Today's Topics:
1. JAWS reading Math equations element by element (Karen Sorensen)
2. Re: JAWS reading Math equations element by element
(Shannon Pruitt)
3. Re: JAWS reading Math equations element by element
(steve.noble at louisville.edu)
4. Re: JAWS reading Math equations element by element
(Brandon Keith Biggs)
5. Re: JAWS reading Math equations element by element
(Niels Luithardt)
6. Re: JAWS reading Math equations element by element
(Niels Luithardt)

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 07:17:12 0700
From: Karen Sorensen <karen.sorensen at pcc.edu>
To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
Subject: [Blindmath] JAWS reading Math equations element by element
MessageID:
<CAALCsS6em7_EC516dtFJCV=7RkyRs1cz9tMdV7tLpfiC2GwYQ at mail.gmail.com>
ContentType: text/plain; charset=UTF8
Hi Steve and Khaleel,
Steve, great explanation of what combination of AT, browser and addon is
necessary to read math.
So what do you suggest the student use to write math? This is an issue that
has confounded us. MathType isn't accessible for a screen reader user to
write math with.
Here are some ideas we have compiled (some from this listserv), but none are
ideal:
 Talking graphing calculator  does it output what's written with the
calculator to the computer? Is it a complete solution? Probably not.
 Excel may be a viable solution in some cases, at least in Stats.
 ASCII code, but instructor has to agree to the code choices. An agreed
upon ASCII set would need to be defined.
 Braille display or Perkins brailler, but will probably need to be
converted to math that's readable by a sighted instructor
 LaTeX, but learning LaTeX is a commitment (you can also write LaTeX in
MathType, and therefore only have to write the math portion of LaTeX, not
the layout. It also is in a popular word doc format, but is difficult to
avoid errors (from John Gardner's post on math listserv. John is a former
physics instructor at Oregon State and the owner of ViewPlus in
Corvallis,
OR)
 Other recommendations by John Gardner in Blindmath listserv post on
31616 (words are John's not mine):
 "Use MathType and compose equations in LEAN. LEAN is something I
wrote myself, and it works extremely well in audio, but the current
version
has bugs in the braille output. Write me if you'd like to join the
beta
list and use it in audio. Much more compact than Latex  I find I
can write
math faster than any sighted person using any computer application
(but not
as fast as a person using a pencil yet. LEAN is free for blind
users.
 Use ChattyInfty. Available from the Japanese Infty group at
their commercial web site:
http://www.sciaccess.net
Chatty works well and can output in several formats including MS
Word. But it is expensive."
 Pearson's accessible braille editor
<http://accessibility.pearson.com/mathexapp/> tested with a
refreshable braille display and found it promising. There were some
issues
with the display not refreshing until we navigated away from the page and
returned.
Have any other ideas?
Thank you!
Karen
Karen M. Sorensen
Accessibility Advocate for Online Courses www.pcc.edu/access Portland
Community College
9717224720
Twitter: @ksorensun

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 10:39:36 0400
From: Shannon Pruitt <sdpruitt99 at yahoo.com>
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Karen Sorensen <karen.sorensen at pcc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] JAWS reading Math equations element by
element
MessageID: <A321EE1DEFD546B19048A7F51389C11E at yahoo.com>
ContentType: text/plain; charset=usascii
I would suggest that the student either learn Latex Or go old school with
the Perkins Brailler.
There is however an option with Duxbury to write on Nemeth and backtranslate
to word but the Braille would have to be error free.
> On Apr 19, 2016, at 10:17 AM, Karen Sorensen via Blindmath
<blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Steve and Khaleel,
> Steve, great explanation of what combination of AT, browser and addon
> is necessary to read math.
> So what do you suggest the student use to write math? This is an issue
> that has confounded us. MathType isn't accessible for a screen reader
> user to write math with.
> Here are some ideas we have compiled (some from this listserv), but
> none are ideal:
>
>  Talking graphing calculator  does it output what's written with the
> calculator to the computer? Is it a complete solution? Probably not.
>  Excel may be a viable solution in some cases, at least in Stats.
>  ASCII code, but instructor has to agree to the code choices. An agreed
> upon ASCII set would need to be defined.
>  Braille display or Perkins brailler, but will probably need to be
> converted to math that's readable by a sighted instructor
>  LaTeX, but learning LaTeX is a commitment (you can also write LaTeX in
> MathType, and therefore only have to write the math portion of LaTeX,
not
> the layout. It also is in a popular word doc format, but is difficult to
> avoid errors (from John Gardner's post on math listserv. John is a
former
> physics instructor at Oregon State and the owner of ViewPlus in
Corvallis,
> OR)
>  Other recommendations by John Gardner in Blindmath listserv post on
> 31616 (words are John's not mine):
>  "Use MathType and compose equations in LEAN. LEAN is something I
> wrote myself, and it works extremely well in audio, but the
> current version
> has bugs in the braille output. Write me if you'd like to join
> the beta
> list and use it in audio. Much more compact than Latex  I
> find I can write
> math faster than any sighted person using any computer
> application (but not
> as fast as a person using a pencil yet. LEAN is free for blind
users.
>  Use ChattyInfty. Available from the Japanese Infty group at
> their commercial web site:
> http://www.sciaccess.net
> Chatty works well and can output in several formats including MS
> Word. But it is expensive."
>  Pearson's accessible braille editor
> <http://accessibility.pearson.com/mathexapp/> tested with a
> refreshable braille display and found it promising. There were some
issues
> with the display not refreshing until we navigated away from the page
and
> returned.
>
> Have any other ideas?
> Thank you!
> Karen
> Karen M. Sorensen
> Accessibility Advocate for Online Courses www.pcc.edu/access Portland
> Community College
> 9717224720
> Twitter: @ksorensun
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Blindmath:
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> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmathgemshome>

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 21:04:02 +0000
From: steve.noble at louisville.edu
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Karen Sorensen <karen.sorensen at pcc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] JAWS reading Math equations element by
element
MessageID: <C1BF3DDBA47A024DAD5CAFB0A4D8D720015759A0C8 at exmbx01>
ContentType: text/plain; charset="usascii"
Hi Karen,
At the time being there are a variety of methods, none being fully complete
or without some limitations. Indeed, you have mentioned many of them,
including Pearson's accessible equation editor which is not yet fully
developed or readily available. But hear are a few additional angles to
consider in addition to the ones you mentioned.
One method is to use MathType set to accept LaTeX math expressions entered
from the keyboard and then use MathType's toggletex command to convert the
expression to a MathType equation which NVDA plus MathPlayer can read. That
method can also be an aid to the blind student learning LaTeX, as he/she
will be able to quickly hear what was written in standard math speech, and
then toggle back to tex to further edit or correct the expression. I suspect
that process would be far from foolproof, but it may be a serviceable
method.
Another possibility would be to use the gh product called MathHear:
https://www.ghaccessibility.com/software/mathhear. It is designed so that
math teachers can create worksheets, quizzes and tests and blind students
(well...any student for that matter) can enter their work, save the document
and send it back.
Yet another angle to consider is the WIRIS equation editor.
http://www.wiris.com/en/ It is accessible, though I have not had any direct
feedback from blind individuals who have tried using it to do math in an
educational setting. Theoretically, it could be hooked up to a Learning
Management System, and their website specifically mentions Canvas, Moodle,
Sakai and others, but I have no feedback from those who have done this.
Steve Noble
steve.noble at louisville.edu
5029693088
http://louisville.academia.edu/SteveNoble
________________________________________
From: Blindmath [blindmathbounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Karen Sorensen
via Blindmath [blindmath at nfbnet.org]
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 10:17 AM
To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
Cc: Karen Sorensen
Subject: [Blindmath] JAWS reading Math equations element by element
Hi Steve and Khaleel,
Steve, great explanation of what combination of AT, browser and addon is
necessary to read math.
So what do you suggest the student use to write math? This is an issue that
has confounded us. MathType isn't accessible for a screen reader user to
write math with.
Here are some ideas we have compiled (some from this listserv), but none are
ideal:
 Talking graphing calculator  does it output what's written with the
calculator to the computer? Is it a complete solution? Probably not.
 Excel may be a viable solution in some cases, at least in Stats.
 ASCII code, but instructor has to agree to the code choices. An agreed
upon ASCII set would need to be defined.
 Braille display or Perkins brailler, but will probably need to be
converted to math that's readable by a sighted instructor
 LaTeX, but learning LaTeX is a commitment (you can also write LaTeX in
MathType, and therefore only have to write the math portion of LaTeX, not
the layout. It also is in a popular word doc format, but is difficult to
avoid errors (from John Gardner's post on math listserv. John is a former
physics instructor at Oregon State and the owner of ViewPlus in
Corvallis,
OR)
 Other recommendations by John Gardner in Blindmath listserv post on
31616 (words are John's not mine):
 "Use MathType and compose equations in LEAN. LEAN is something I
wrote myself, and it works extremely well in audio, but the current
version
has bugs in the braille output. Write me if you'd like to join the
beta
list and use it in audio. Much more compact than Latex  I find I
can write
math faster than any sighted person using any computer application
(but not
as fast as a person using a pencil yet. LEAN is free for blind
users.
 Use ChattyInfty. Available from the Japanese Infty group at
their commercial web site:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http3A__www.sciaccess.net&d=AwIC
Ag&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCS
GU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=IL0NQJ4lPeiLZdAxV3VZ_lPXuzkSv3mv4JtZzsQ0eg&s=6SA8XAiee
HsIl1Tq3IfZVOHiWOe4kqhkNa_xHw2CNAg&e=
Chatty works well and can output in several formats including MS
Word. But it is expensive."
 Pearson's accessible braille editor
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http3A__accessibility.pearson.c
om_mathex2Dapp_&d=AwICAg&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4W
Mck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=IL0NQJ4lPeiLZdAxV3VZ_lPXuzkSv3mv
4JtZzsQ0eg&s=2ZgepD_TSQga1kacI6_UnM5a7UKjUSAyCKIXaN0bZ4&e= > tested with
a
refreshable braille display and found it promising. There were some
issues
with the display not refreshing until we navigated away from the page and
returned.
Have any other ideas?
Thank you!
Karen
Karen M. Sorensen
Accessibility Advocate for Online Courses www.pcc.edu/access Portland
Community College
9717224720
Twitter: @ksorensun
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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 16:43:02 0700
From: Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] JAWS reading Math equations element by
element
MessageID:
<CAKAWQkWH4voDWdG8vhaCsjVeOW+O9dpT08dC9r0y3B2TLyfpA at mail.gmail.com>
ContentType: text/plain; charset=UTF8
Hello Karen,
I use python just for myself. It is the same language as notation and works
as a calculator when you run the math through the interpreter.
It also is super easy with just a few symbols and function names needing to
be memorized.
Thanks,
Brandon Keith Biggs <http://brandonkeithbiggs.com/>
On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 7:17 AM, Karen Sorensen via Blindmath <
blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Hi Steve and Khaleel,
> Steve, great explanation of what combination of AT, browser and addon
> is necessary to read math.
> So what do you suggest the student use to write math? This is an issue
> that has confounded us. MathType isn't accessible for a screen reader
> user to write math with.
> Here are some ideas we have compiled (some from this listserv), but
> none are ideal:
>
>  Talking graphing calculator  does it output what's written with the
> calculator to the computer? Is it a complete solution? Probably not.
>  Excel may be a viable solution in some cases, at least in Stats.
>  ASCII code, but instructor has to agree to the code choices. An
agreed
> upon ASCII set would need to be defined.
>  Braille display or Perkins brailler, but will probably need to be
> converted to math that's readable by a sighted instructor
>  LaTeX, but learning LaTeX is a commitment (you can also write LaTeX
in
> MathType, and therefore only have to write the math portion of
> LaTeX, not
> the layout. It also is in a popular word doc format, but is difficult
to
> avoid errors (from John Gardner's post on math listserv. John is a
> former
> physics instructor at Oregon State and the owner of ViewPlus in
> Corvallis,
> OR)
>  Other recommendations by John Gardner in Blindmath listserv post
on
> 31616 (words are John's not mine):
>  "Use MathType and compose equations in LEAN. LEAN is something
I
> wrote myself, and it works extremely well in audio, but the
> current version
> has bugs in the braille output. Write me if you'd like to
> join the beta
> list and use it in audio. Much more compact than Latex  I
> find I can write
> math faster than any sighted person using any computer
> application (but not
> as fast as a person using a pencil yet. LEAN is free for
> blind users.
>  Use ChattyInfty. Available from the Japanese Infty group at
> their commercial web site:
> http://www.sciaccess.net
> Chatty works well and can output in several formats including MS
> Word. But it is expensive."
>  Pearson's accessible braille editor
> <http://accessibility.pearson.com/mathexapp/> tested with a
> refreshable braille display and found it promising. There were some
> issues
> with the display not refreshing until we navigated away from the
> page and
> returned.
>
> Have any other ideas?
> Thank you!
> Karen
> Karen M. Sorensen
> Accessibility Advocate for Online Courses www.pcc.edu/access Portland
> Community College
> 9717224720
> Twitter: @ksorensun
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbig
> gs%40gmail.com
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <
> http://www.blindscience.org/blindmathgemshome>
>

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 12:56:58 +0200
From: Niels Luithardt <niels.luithardt at googlemail.com>
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] JAWS reading Math equations element by
element
MessageID:
<CAC0XhrAufdrBBiq0ZnSJUoBbanJuooFAmuRq1P0K2pKYz7RUHQ at mail.gmail.com>
ContentType: text/plain; charset=UTF8
Hi Karen,
in Germany the Students lern Latex. At school the pupils lern latex too. But
not "normal latex". They lern "Latex light"
It exists a Manual How to write Schoolbooks in Latex.
It is not beautiful, but no one can the mathematical braile Code.
Since 2015 exists an new Braille Code f?r Math in Germany but no teacher can
the code and no teacher can explain the Code...
Regards
Niels

20160419 16:17 GMT+02:00, Karen Sorensen via Blindmath
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>:
> Hi Steve and Khaleel,
> Steve, great explanation of what combination of AT, browser and addon
> is necessary to read math.
> So what do you suggest the student use to write math? This is an issue
> that has confounded us. MathType isn't accessible for a screen reader
> user to write math with.
> Here are some ideas we have compiled (some from this listserv), but
> none are ideal:
>
>  Talking graphing calculator  does it output what's written with the
> calculator to the computer? Is it a complete solution? Probably not.
>  Excel may be a viable solution in some cases, at least in Stats.
>  ASCII code, but instructor has to agree to the code choices. An
agreed
> upon ASCII set would need to be defined.
>  Braille display or Perkins brailler, but will probably need to be
> converted to math that's readable by a sighted instructor
>  LaTeX, but learning LaTeX is a commitment (you can also write LaTeX
in
> MathType, and therefore only have to write the math portion of
> LaTeX, not
> the layout. It also is in a popular word doc format, but is difficult
to
> avoid errors (from John Gardner's post on math listserv. John is a
> former
> physics instructor at Oregon State and the owner of ViewPlus in
> Corvallis,
> OR)
>  Other recommendations by John Gardner in Blindmath listserv post
on
> 31616 (words are John's not mine):
>  "Use MathType and compose equations in LEAN. LEAN is something
I
> wrote myself, and it works extremely well in audio, but the
> current version
> has bugs in the braille output. Write me if you'd like to
> join the beta
> list and use it in audio. Much more compact than Latex  I
> find I can write
> math faster than any sighted person using any computer
> application (but not
> as fast as a person using a pencil yet. LEAN is free for
> blind users.
>  Use ChattyInfty. Available from the Japanese Infty group at
> their commercial web site:
> http://www.sciaccess.net
> Chatty works well and can output in several formats including MS
> Word. But it is expensive."
>  Pearson's accessible braille editor
> <http://accessibility.pearson.com/mathexapp/> tested with a
> refreshable braille display and found it promising. There were some
> issues
> with the display not refreshing until we navigated away from the
> page and
> returned.
>
> Have any other ideas?
> Thank you!
> Karen
> Karen M. Sorensen
> Accessibility Advocate for Online Courses www.pcc.edu/access Portland
> Community College
> 9717224720
> Twitter: @ksorensun
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/niels.luithardt
> %40googlemail.com
> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmathgemshome>
>

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 13:15:47 +0200
From: Niels Luithardt <niels.luithardt at googlemail.com>
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] JAWS reading Math equations element by
element
MessageID:
<CAC0XhrB9RRsHr6v6gt5xuDf6MxwDXyKS4vbd+0wPKhyXxr+qOg at mail.gmail.com>
ContentType: text/plain; charset=UTF8
Hi,
here is the new mathematical Braille Code for Germany:
http://www.bskdl.org/mathematik.html
The Problem:
It doesn't exist any software to print the new Braile code  to convert into
the Code. Only a few Teacher know the new code.
Here is the Manual for Schoolbooks in Germany:
http://www.bezregarnsberg.nrw.de/themen/f/fibs/weitere_hilfen/latexfibs.pd
f
Regards
Niels
200160420 1:43 GMT+02:00, Brandon Keith Biggs via Blindmath
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>:
> Hello Karen,
> I use python just for myself. It is the same language as notation and
> works as a calculator when you run the math through the interpreter.
> It also is super easy with just a few symbols and function names
> needing to be memorized.
> Thanks,
>
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs <http://brandonkeithbiggs.com/>
>
> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 7:17 AM, Karen Sorensen via Blindmath <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi Steve and Khaleel,
>> Steve, great explanation of what combination of AT, browser and
>> addon is necessary to read math.
>> So what do you suggest the student use to write math? This is an
>> issue that has confounded us. MathType isn't accessible for a screen
>> reader user to write math with.
>> Here are some ideas we have compiled (some from this listserv), but
>> none are ideal:
>>
>>  Talking graphing calculator  does it output what's written with the
>> calculator to the computer? Is it a complete solution? Probably not.
>>  Excel may be a viable solution in some cases, at least in Stats.
>>  ASCII code, but instructor has to agree to the code choices. An
>> agreed
>> upon ASCII set would need to be defined.
>>  Braille display or Perkins brailler, but will probably need to be
>> converted to math that's readable by a sighted instructor
>>  LaTeX, but learning LaTeX is a commitment (you can also write
>> LaTeX in
>> MathType, and therefore only have to write the math portion of
>> LaTeX, not
>> the layout. It also is in a popular word doc format, but is
>> difficult to
>> avoid errors (from John Gardner's post on math listserv. John is a
>> former
>> physics instructor at Oregon State and the owner of ViewPlus in
>> Corvallis,
>> OR)
>>  Other recommendations by John Gardner in Blindmath listserv
>> post on
>> 31616 (words are John's not mine):
>>  "Use MathType and compose equations in LEAN. LEAN is
>> something I
>> wrote myself, and it works extremely well in audio, but the
>> current version
>> has bugs in the braille output. Write me if you'd like to
>> join the beta
>> list and use it in audio. Much more compact than Latex  I
>> find I can write
>> math faster than any sighted person using any computer
>> application (but not
>> as fast as a person using a pencil yet. LEAN is free for
>> blind users.
>>  Use ChattyInfty. Available from the Japanese Infty group at
>> their commercial web site:
>> http://www.sciaccess.net
>> Chatty works well and can output in several formats including MS
>> Word. But it is expensive."
>>  Pearson's accessible braille editor
>> <http://accessibility.pearson.com/mathexapp/> tested with a
>> refreshable braille display and found it promising. There were
>> some issues
>> with the display not refreshing until we navigated away from the
>> page and
>> returned.
>>
>> Have any other ideas?
>> Thank you!
>> Karen
>> Karen M. Sorensen
>> Accessibility Advocate for Online Courses www.pcc.edu/access Portland
>> Community College
>> 9717224720
>> Twitter: @ksorensun
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>>
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>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <
>> http://www.blindscience.org/blindmathgemshome>
>>
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