[BlindMath] Transitioning from Completely Visual Math to Less Visual Math

John Gardner gardnerj at oregonstate.edu
Tue Apr 4 14:33:37 UTC 2017 

Jason that early tablet was quite different from the HyperBraille. It displayed an entire DOS page of 80 characters by 25 lines and took up an entire desk. And it cost quite a bit more than US$100,000. Three were sold, or maybe only two with one being given free to the University of Stuttgart. And at least a few cells were broken at any given time. Wonder why it did not become more popular.

In fairness, the Hyperbraille is a lot more practical, and the price may eventually be a lot less than $100,000, but it would still be very surprising if the price got low enough that anybody but researchers could afford it.

John


-----Original Message-----
From: BlindMath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of White, Jason J via BlindMath
Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 5:56 AM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Cc: White, Jason J <jjwhite at ets.org>
Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Transitioning from Completely Visual Math to Less Visual Math

In the mid 1990s, if I remember correctly, someone associated with the University of Stuttgart mentioned a price for these devices of approximately DM 100000. (Obviously, this was before Germany switched to the Euro.) It appears that the cost hasn't improved since then, and nor has the availability. That's what I meant by "research prototypes".

> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindMath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
> Amanda Lacy via BlindMath
> Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 12:10 AM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics 
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Amanda Lacy <lacy925 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Transitioning from Completely Visual Math to 
> Less Visual Math
>
> > I have been told that the next model will be less expensive, 
> > possibly costing less than US$100,000.
>
> Does anyone else find the absurdity as funny as I do?
>
> At possibly less than $100000 no one will buy them, not even agencies 
> for the blind. So all that effort went to produce something that no one will ever use.
>
> On 4/3/17, John Gardner via BlindMath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > This hyperbraille device exists - I have seen it at the Sight City 
> > show in Frankfurt. However if it is for sale, that does seem to be a 
> > deep secret. I have been told that the next model will be less 
> > expensive, possibly costing less than US$100,000. It is a bit 
> > smaller than an 8.5x11 paper and has resolution of approximately 
> > 0.10 inch - which is okay for braille though with more than the 
> > usual inter-cell spacing. I do not know anything about supporting 
> > software. My advice is not to hold your breath waiting for it to 
> > come to market. At best it will never be something that the average 
> > blind user can afford. I do not believe that the technology can be 
> > scaled to be inexpensive at any
> volume.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: BlindMath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
> > Niels Luithardt via BlindMath
> > Sent: Monday, April 3, 2017 11:56 AM
> > To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics 
> > <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> > Cc: Niels Luithardt <niels.luithardt at googlemail.com>; John Gardner 
> > <gardnerj at oregonstate.edu>
> > Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Transitioning from Completely Visual Math 
> > to Less Visual Math
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > here is a Link to "Hyperbraille":
> >
> > http://www.hyperbraille.de/?lang=en
> >
> > I hope it helps
> >
> > Kind regards
> >
> > Niels
> >
> > 2017-04-03 18:13 GMT+02:00, White, Jason J via BlindMath
> > <blindmath at nfbnet.org>:
> >> So far as I know, braille displays with multiple lines of text do 
> >> not exist (except perhaps as research prototypes). As I recall, 
> >> Pappenmeier used to have (and perhaps still sell) displays with 
> >> vertical components offering a small number of cells that can serve 
> >> to provide navigation support, but they're not full lines of text 
> >> that can be used for reading.
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: BlindMath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
> >>> Derek Scott Riemer via BlindMath
> >>> Sent: Monday, April 3, 2017 12:08 PM
> >>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics 
> >>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> >>> Cc: Derek Scott Riemer <Derek.Riemer at colorado.edu>; John Gardner 
> >>> <gardnerj at oregonstate.edu>
> >>> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Transitioning from Completely Visual Math 
> >>> to Less Visual Math
> >>>
> >>> No screen reader on the market knows how to work with multiple 
> >>> line braille displays as of this time.
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 7:59 PM, John Gardner via BlindMath < 
> >>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> > Hi, I am unaware of any braille displays with more than one line.
> >>> > Do you have references? One word of caution. Having multiple 
> >>> > lines is useful only if the software displays information the 
> >>> > way it needs to be displayed semantically. This is not at all 
> >>> > automatic, so even if you spent a lot of money to purchase a 
> >>> > multiple-line display, it could be not very useful if the lines 
> >>> > are not properly aligned. I don't even know how to ask the right questions to find out.
> >>> >
> >>> > John
> >>> >
> >>> > -----Original Message-----
> >>> > From: BlindMath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf 
> >>> > Of Nicholas J via BlindMath
> >>> > Sent: Sunday, April 2, 2017 12:33 PM
> >>> > To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >>> > Cc: Nicholas J <314nick15 at gmail.com>
> >>> > Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Transitioning from Completely Visual 
> >>> > Math to Less Visual Math
> >>> >
> >>> > Thank you to everyone for all the help. I was looking at 
> >>> > different braille displays and saw some that are one, two, three, or four lines.
> >>> > How many lines would be the best for statistics? I was told 
> >>> > before that one line may not be enough for proofs or long 
> >>> > problems that would need different parts to be seen at once. I 
> >>> > wasn't sure if even two, three, or four is enough, but it seems 
> >>> > like there is the choice for only one through four lines. How 
> >>> > good will I need to be in braille before I can
> >>> use it for statistics?
> >>> >
> >>> > Thank you,
> >>> > Nicholas
> >>> >
> >>> > On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 11:21 PM, Nicholas J 
> >>> > <314nick15 at gmail.com>
> >>> > wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> > > Hello,
> >>> > >
> >>> > > I’m considering doing a Master’s in statistics, but I do not 
> >>> > > want to go back to the technology that I used before. I used a 
> >>> > > cctv to view the board and zoomtext as a screen magnifier. All 
> >>> > > the cctvs I have used have still left me not able to see what 
> >>> > > was happening in most of my classes before and zoomtext made 
> >>> > > things slower for me because of so much magnification. Right 
> >>> > > now I am transitioning to using Jaws for the computer, but I 
> >>> > > am not sure what to do for things like the boards in classes, 
> >>> > > writing, and things
> like that.
> >>> > > I don’t write notes because I am slow at it since I have to 
> >>> > > write big and I usually still can’t understand what I wrote 
> >>> > > because of how quickly I wrote it and how unreadable it is. I 
> >>> > > have been looking at doing things in braille, but am not sure 
> >>> > > if that is the best way to go. I thought it might take a lot 
> >>> > > of time also to learn it. I still think it may be helpful in 
> >>> > > some situations (maybe graphics which I could almost never 
> >>> > > discern correctly the more complicated they got). I have been 
> >>> > > reading through all the posts here about latex and having Jaws 
> >>> > > read them and other kinds of technologies, but I am not sure 
> >>> > > what kinds of technology are best for the transition of doing 
> >>> > > everything visually to doing things less visually. My vision 
> >>> > > has always stayed the same, but the field I am
> >>> > working in is statistics and it gets very small and specific for 
> >>> > notation and everything.
> >>> > > Main Question: What technology and how can I do math more 
> >>> > > electronically and less visually? I am learning Jaws, braille, 
> >>> > > and
> >>> > Kurzweil.
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Thank you,
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Nicholas
> >>> > >
> >>> > _______________________________________________
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> >>> > john.gardner%40orst.edu
> >>> > BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
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> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > _______________________________________________
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> >>> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> Derek Riemer: Improving the world one byte at a time!
> >>>
> >>>    - University of Colorado Boulder Department of computer science, 4th
> >>>    year undergraduate student.
> >>>    - Accessibility enthusiast.
> >>>    - Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
> >>>    - Open source enthusiast.
> >>>    - Skier.
> >>>
> >>> Personal website <http://derekriemer.com> 
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> >>> gems-home>
> >>
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