[Blindmath] answer about LaTeX to html

Tue Feb 21 02:05:21 UTC 2017

I didn't know that alt+\ functionality, I guess it improved  since
I last tried it (probably ~15 years ago).

In any case I personally use linux and I'm very comfortable with latex
so I'd rather prepare accessible materials authored by myself in latex
or pandoc, and in case of latex  convert it to mathml via latexml, as
this much more efficient time-wise.

But in a way this doesn't matter, as the part of my job pertaining to
preparing accessible lecture notes, etc. is really about dealing with
documents prepared by other people, and the reality is that at
the university level, mathematics lecture notes are almost always (as
in: I've never seen anything else) prepared in latex. In this situation
manual retyping to other formats is much more time consuming than
running latexml (even with this alt+\ functionality, as typically there
are macros, etc.)

One extra upshot important in a long run is that mathml is an open
standard well supported on a variety of platforms, whereas mathtype
definitely is not. Since there is a considerable number of blind linux
users, in an ideal word we should all use something which is supported
on windows, mac and linux.

Also there is an additional aspect: tools should also be efficient for a
blind maths student to author long mathematical texts, and here I
imagine the efficiency of editing latex or pandoc in a text editor
could probably be 10 times better than using ms word.

Let me me mention that this is something which I personally consider
very paradoxical - I think my linux desktop and the way I and many
other 'traditional' users use it could be a very attractive
environment for blind users - I spend most of my time writing text and
reading text on a console - if I have to do something which involves a
"user interface" such as windows, buttons, mouse, etc. then I get very
unhappy.

I reckon in such an environment a blind user could be almost as
productive as a non-blind user. AND this is acknowledged by projects
such as Emacspeak (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emacspeak)  - I can't
imagine there could be a more efficient way for a blind person to use a
computer for scientific tasks than emacspeak.

 Unfortunately - and this is the heart of the problem - the learning
 curve for using something like emacs is incredibly long compared to a
 typical windows application. For a sighted users starting to use emacs
 takes a few days, and then months to become really comfortable. So
 although it really hurts me to see my visually impaired student use the
 stupid windows interfaces which are barely accessible, but not
 convenient at all, and although I know that she could be way more
 efficient using something like emacspeak, I'm not in a position to
 even suggest switching the environments because it would take weeks
 and would need a dedicated support person before she can start feeling
 the advantages.

Best,
Łukasz

On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 19:00:04 -0500
Brian Richwine via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> In my office we make a lot of accessible math eText and braille. Our
> editors prefer to type LaTex into MS Word and then press Alt+\ to have
> MathType convert the LaTex into a MathType object. It's much faster
> than working in the MathType WYSIWYG user interface.
> 
> On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 3:04 PM, Doug and Molly Miron via Blindmath <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:  
> 
> > Good day Lukasz,
> >
> > I went totally blind about a year and a half ago, and I am an old
> > research EE.  I was told about MathPlayer with MathType and Word
> > early on, but only learned about LaTeX and mathml a couple of
> > months ago. My first experience was reading equations at Wikipedia,
> > which pleasantly surprised me.  Since MathType is inaccessible to
> > me now, I am writing and manipulating equations in La
> > TeX, which I may convert to html if I get good enough results to
> > publish. If I were in your place, I probably would prefer to
> > prepare material using Word and MathType as  it seems more
> > efficient than using LaTeX.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Doug Miron
> >
> > -----Original Message----- From: ŁukaszGrabowski via Blindmath
> > Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 11:02 AM
> > To: Lucas Radaelli
> > Cc: ŁukaszGrabowski ; Blind Math list for those interested in
> > mathematics Subject: Re: [Blindmath] answer about LaTeX to html
> >
> >
> > By the dafault it's the former, i.e. mathml. But it's very
> > configurable and if you prefer latex source as alt then probably it
> > can be done (although probably that's not much more helpful than
> > reading the source)
> >
> > NVDA with math player does (what it seems to me is) a reasonable job
> > with reading. You can try an example problem sheet here:
> > http://www.lancaster.ac.uk/staff/grabows1/accessible/math103
> > /Week14.tex/S0.SSx2.html
> >
> > Having said that, I'm preparing materials for a visually impaired
> > student this year (legally bordercase blind, but with enough vision
> > to read the above link at about 300% zoom), so I don't have any real
> > experience on whether NVDA with mathplayer would work for a  maths
> > student with no vision at all.
> >
> > So if you are or know a blind maths student I would actually be very
> > interested to know whether a page as above is accessible via NVDA
> > with math player.
> >
> > Best,
> > Łukasz
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:45:37 -0200
> > Lucas Radaelli <lucasradaelli at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Does latexml convert the output formulas to mathml or it puts the  
> >> Latex source as alt in the images? if the former, what to use to
> >> read the formulas?
> >>
> >> On 16/02/2017 13:22, Łukasz Grabowski via Blindmath wrote:  
> >> > Hi Russell,
> >> >
> >> > I speak as someone who has tried different approaches to
> >> > converting latex to accessible html this year - pandoc is not
> >> > good for this purpuse, you should really use latexml if you have
> >> > a tex file which you need to convert to an accessible version.
> >> >
> >> > What pandoc is absolutely great for is writing new documents.
> >> > Also if I had a blind maths student which I needed to teach to
> >> > write mathematical documents, I would go with pandoc.
> >> >
> >> > The point is that pandoc very intelligently restricts what you
> >> > can do in a document, allowng to focus on the content, lowering
> >> > the numberof typos, etc.. But converting existing latex
> >> > documents to pandoc (or should I say "pandoc markdown" to be
> >> > completely correct) is a pain.
> >> >
> >> > Best,
> >> > Łukasz
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 08:13:34 -0700
> >> > Russell Solowoniuk via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >> >  
> >> >> Hi Mathieu,
> >> >>
> >> >> Assuming one could obtain a math or physics textbook in LaTeX
> >> >> format, would it be possible to run the textbook file through
> >> >> Pandoc and end up with a screen reader accessible version of the
> >> >> text? Or, would a lot of editing need to be done before using
> >> >> Pandoc, i.e. removing images, diagrams, etc.?
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks,
> >> >>
> >> >> Russell
> >> >>
> >> >> Russell Solowoniuk
> >> >> AT Educational Assistant, Services to Students with Disabilities
> >> >> MacEwan University
> >> >> 7-198 D4, 10700-104 Ave.
> >> >> Edmonton, AB  T5J 4S2
> >> >> E: solowoniukr at macewan.ca
> >> >> T:  780-497-5826
> >> >> F:  780-497-4018
> >> >> macewan.ca
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> >> >> printing this email.
> >> >>
> >> >>  
> >> >>>>> Mathieu Barbe via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> 2017-02-16
> >> >>>>> 3:20 AM >>>  
> >> >> Hi all,
> >> >>
> >> >> pandoc is a good solution to convert math.
> >> >>
> >> >> Pandoc can convert markdown to html with mathml or mathjax.
> >> >> For instance :
> >> >>
> >> >> code markdown :
> >> >>
> >> >> % My title
> >> >> % My name
> >> >> % 16 Feb 2017
> >> >>
> >> >> # My equation and level 1
> >> >>
> >> >> This is a sum :
> >> >>
> >> >> $\sum_{i=0}^n i^2$
> >> >>
> >> >> End markdown code
> >> >>
> >> >> type in the command line :
> >> >>
> >> >> pandoc -s --mathml source.markdown -o out.html
> >> >>
> >> >> if you want mathjax instead of mathml, replace --mathml by
> >> >> --mathjax!
> >> >>
> >> >> If you have LaTeX source you also convert in html web page.  
> >> >  
> >> >> however, if tex source contains specials commands, there may be
> >> >> errors.
> >> >>
> >> >> command line :
> >> >>
> >> >> pandoc -s --mathml source.tex -o out.html
> >> >>
> >> >> The -s option ask to pandoc to generate header before your
> >> >> texte.
> >> >>
> >> >> ++ Mathieu
> >> >>
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> >> >>
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