[Blindmath] answer about LaTeX to html

Tue Feb 21 03:00:17 UTC 2017

Did you see the recent announcement about the equation navigator in
Emacspeak? I haven't had a chance to test it yet.

Which Linux do you use? I recently tried Vinux but I think I'll go
with plain Ubuntu instead. Vinux is based on an old version of Ubuntu.
I couldn't accomplish tasks that should be simple, like setting up
wi-fi. I like the command-line interface and reasonable GUIs. I have a
CS degree and find MS Word so intimidating that I haven't touched it
in seven years. There are many unreasonable GUIs out there that I
can't understand how to use but other blind people manage them. I
wonder how they conceptualize those interfaces.

On 2/20/17, Łukasz Grabowski via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> I didn't know that alt+\ functionality, I guess it improved  since
> I last tried it (probably ~15 years ago).
>
> In any case I personally use linux and I'm very comfortable with latex
> so I'd rather prepare accessible materials authored by myself in latex
> or pandoc, and in case of latex  convert it to mathml via latexml, as
> this much more efficient time-wise.
>
> But in a way this doesn't matter, as the part of my job pertaining to
> preparing accessible lecture notes, etc. is really about dealing with
> documents prepared by other people, and the reality is that at
> the university level, mathematics lecture notes are almost always (as
> in: I've never seen anything else) prepared in latex. In this situation
> manual retyping to other formats is much more time consuming than
> running latexml (even with this alt+\ functionality, as typically there
> are macros, etc.)
>
> One extra upshot important in a long run is that mathml is an open
> standard well supported on a variety of platforms, whereas mathtype
> definitely is not. Since there is a considerable number of blind linux
> users, in an ideal word we should all use something which is supported
> on windows, mac and linux.
>
> Also there is an additional aspect: tools should also be efficient for a
> blind maths student to author long mathematical texts, and here I
> imagine the efficiency of editing latex or pandoc in a text editor
> could probably be 10 times better than using ms word.
>
> Let me me mention that this is something which I personally consider
> very paradoxical - I think my linux desktop and the way I and many
> other 'traditional' users use it could be a very attractive
> environment for blind users - I spend most of my time writing text and
> reading text on a console - if I have to do something which involves a
> "user interface" such as windows, buttons, mouse, etc. then I get very
> unhappy.
>
> I reckon in such an environment a blind user could be almost as
> productive as a non-blind user. AND this is acknowledged by projects
> such as Emacspeak (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emacspeak)  - I can't
> imagine there could be a more efficient way for a blind person to use a
> computer for scientific tasks than emacspeak.
>
>  Unfortunately - and this is the heart of the problem - the learning
>  curve for using something like emacs is incredibly long compared to a
>  typical windows application. For a sighted users starting to use emacs
>  takes a few days, and then months to become really comfortable. So
>  although it really hurts me to see my visually impaired student use the
>  stupid windows interfaces which are barely accessible, but not
>  convenient at all, and although I know that she could be way more
>  efficient using something like emacspeak, I'm not in a position to
>  even suggest switching the environments because it would take weeks
>  and would need a dedicated support person before she can start feeling
>  the advantages.
>
> Best,
> Łukasz
>
> On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 19:00:04 -0500
> Brian Richwine via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
>> In my office we make a lot of accessible math eText and braille. Our
>> editors prefer to type LaTex into MS Word and then press Alt+\ to have
>> MathType convert the LaTex into a MathType object. It's much faster
>> than working in the MathType WYSIWYG user interface.
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 3:04 PM, Doug and Molly Miron via Blindmath <
>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> > Good day Lukasz,
>> >
>> > I went totally blind about a year and a half ago, and I am an old
>> > research EE.  I was told about MathPlayer with MathType and Word
>> > early on, but only learned about LaTeX and mathml a couple of
>> > months ago. My first experience was reading equations at Wikipedia,
>> > which pleasantly surprised me.  Since MathType is inaccessible to
>> > me now, I am writing and manipulating equations in La
>> > TeX, which I may convert to html if I get good enough results to
>> > publish. If I were in your place, I probably would prefer to
>> > prepare material using Word and MathType as  it seems more
>> > efficient than using LaTeX.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Doug Miron
>> >
>> > -----Original Message----- From: ŁukaszGrabowski via Blindmath
>> > Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 11:02 AM
>> > To: Lucas Radaelli
>> > Cc: ŁukaszGrabowski ; Blind Math list for those interested in
>> > mathematics Subject: Re: [Blindmath] answer about LaTeX to html
>> >
>> >
>> > By the dafault it's the former, i.e. mathml. But it's very
>> > configurable and if you prefer latex source as alt then probably it
>> > can be done (although probably that's not much more helpful than
>> > reading the source)
>> >
>> > NVDA with math player does (what it seems to me is) a reasonable job
>> > with reading. You can try an example problem sheet here:
>> > http://www.lancaster.ac.uk/staff/grabows1/accessible/math103
>> > /Week14.tex/S0.SSx2.html
>> >
>> > Having said that, I'm preparing materials for a visually impaired
>> > student this year (legally bordercase blind, but with enough vision
>> > to read the above link at about 300% zoom), so I don't have any real
>> > experience on whether NVDA with mathplayer would work for a  maths
>> > student with no vision at all.
>> >
>> > So if you are or know a blind maths student I would actually be very
>> > interested to know whether a page as above is accessible via NVDA
>> > with math player.
>> >
>> > Best,
>> > Łukasz
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:45:37 -0200
>> > Lucas Radaelli <lucasradaelli at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Does latexml convert the output formulas to mathml or it puts the
>> >> Latex source as alt in the images? if the former, what to use to
>> >> read the formulas?
>> >>
>> >> On 16/02/2017 13:22, Łukasz Grabowski via Blindmath wrote:
>> >> > Hi Russell,
>> >> >
>> >> > I speak as someone who has tried different approaches to
>> >> > converting latex to accessible html this year - pandoc is not
>> >> > good for this purpuse, you should really use latexml if you have
>> >> > a tex file which you need to convert to an accessible version.
>> >> >
>> >> > What pandoc is absolutely great for is writing new documents.
>> >> > Also if I had a blind maths student which I needed to teach to
>> >> > write mathematical documents, I would go with pandoc.
>> >> >
>> >> > The point is that pandoc very intelligently restricts what you
>> >> > can do in a document, allowng to focus on the content, lowering
>> >> > the numberof typos, etc.. But converting existing latex
>> >> > documents to pandoc (or should I say "pandoc markdown" to be
>> >> > completely correct) is a pain.
>> >> >
>> >> > Best,
>> >> > Łukasz
>> >> >
>> >> > On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 08:13:34 -0700
>> >> > Russell Solowoniuk via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Hi Mathieu,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Assuming one could obtain a math or physics textbook in LaTeX
>> >> >> format, would it be possible to run the textbook file through
>> >> >> Pandoc and end up with a screen reader accessible version of the
>> >> >> text? Or, would a lot of editing need to be done before using
>> >> >> Pandoc, i.e. removing images, diagrams, etc.?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Thanks,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Russell
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Russell Solowoniuk
>> >> >> AT Educational Assistant, Services to Students with Disabilities
>> >> >> MacEwan University
>> >> >> 7-198 D4, 10700-104 Ave.
>> >> >> Edmonton, AB  T5J 4S2
>> >> >> E: solowoniukr at macewan.ca
>> >> >> T:  780-497-5826
>> >> >> F:  780-497-4018
>> >> >> macewan.ca
>> >> >> This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to
>> >> >> whom it is addressed and may contain confidential, personal,
>> >> >> and/or privileged information.  Please contact me immediately
>> >> >> if you are not the intended recipient of this communication,
>> >> >> and do not copy, distribute, or take action relying on it.  Any
>> >> >> communication received in error, or subsequent reply, should be
>> >> >> deleted or destroyed. Please consider the environment before
>> >> >> printing this email.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>> Mathieu Barbe via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> 2017-02-16
>> >> >>>>> 3:20 AM >>>
>> >> >> Hi all,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> pandoc is a good solution to convert math.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Pandoc can convert markdown to html with mathml or mathjax.
>> >> >> For instance :
>> >> >>
>> >> >> code markdown :
>> >> >>
>> >> >> % My title
>> >> >> % My name
>> >> >> % 16 Feb 2017
>> >> >>
>> >> >> # My equation and level 1
>> >> >>
>> >> >> This is a sum :
>> >> >>
>> >> >> $\sum_{i=0}^n i^2$
>> >> >>
>> >> >> End markdown code
>> >> >>
>> >> >> type in the command line :
>> >> >>
>> >> >> pandoc -s --mathml source.markdown -o out.html
>> >> >>
>> >> >> if you want mathjax instead of mathml, replace --mathml by
>> >> >> --mathjax!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> If you have LaTeX source you also convert in html web page.
>> >> >
>> >> >> however, if tex source contains specials commands, there may be
>> >> >> errors.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> command line :
>> >> >>
>> >> >> pandoc -s --mathml source.tex -o out.html
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The -s option ask to pandoc to generate header before your
>> >> >> texte.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ++ Mathieu
>> >> >>
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>> >> >>
>> >> >>
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>> >>
>> >>
>> >
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