[Blindmath] My Math Lab Accessibility
Doug and Molly Miron
mndmrn at hbci.com
Tue Feb 21 21:59:03 UTC 2017
Good day Mary,
I had not heard of MyMath Lab until now. Is it capable of generating and
manipulating large arrays? How does execution time compare with Octave and
Matlab?
Regards,
Doug Miron
-----Original Message-----
From: Mary Woodyard via Blindmath
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 7:34 AM
To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
Cc: Mary Woodyard
Subject: [Blindmath] My Math Lab Accessibility
The Pearson website lists disclaimers for MyMath Lab accessibility at the
following link:
http://www.pearsonmylabandmastering.com/northamerica/mymathlab/accessibility
/index.html
There is a disclaimer that reads: While you are using the JAWS
screenreader, you may have questions that do not work correctly. Below is a
list of some of the known issues that we are working to resolve: In some
questions, the decimal number is read incorrectly.
In some questions, expressions are not read in one line.
For Statistics - I think they will also make you use StatCrunch which has
the same accessibility issues. My son is running into these issues at his
college and one of his friends was posting about the issues on ACB Students
website yesterday. He did say however that StatCrunch works well with a
Mac. I have no experience with this.
None of this is good news for you - but I thought I would let you know that
is what we have found. My son dropped Statistics in the Fall and will try
again with his Quantitative Reasoning Math requirement in the fall. He is
focusing on knocking out Science right now. I did notice this post that
someone shared on this website with a link to an paper about Issues that
teachers should consider for teaching Statistics to Blind Students. I
thought it was excellent so I saved it for my son when he tries again. I
have also forwarded it to a friend who had her son send it to his Math
department as he will also be taking Stat next year. Here is the link and
thank you to whoever posted this link originally.
http://ww2.amstat.org/publications/jse/v23n3/godfrey.pdf
I would send this to your Psychology department and DRC coordinator to start
some dialog on the best way for you to be successful in Stat.
Good Luck!
-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
blindmath-request at nfbnet.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 7:00 AM
To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
Subject: Blindmath Digest, Vol 127, Issue 16
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
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Today's Topics:
1. Seeking Field Evaluators for Mad Flash (Li Zhou)
2. Re: answer about LaTeX to html (Brian Richwine)
3. Status of JAWS and MyMath Lab compatibility? (Miranda B.)
4. Re: answer about LaTeX to html (?ukasz Grabowski)
5. Re: answer about LaTeX to html (Amanda Lacy)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2017 08:19:15 -0500
From: Li Zhou <lzhou.backup at gmail.com>
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Cc: fotto <fotto at aph.org>
Subject: [Blindmath] Seeking Field Evaluators for Mad Flash
Message-ID:
<CAJX++jjYQ2NTv2tg53YbuBSrnZC+-d+CA=Xs_znj8Aqry-uCnA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Want to be silly AND practice math skills? Here?s your chance!
APH is seeking field evaluators for a new iOS app that combines math flash
cards with the traditional card game of Slapjack. The result, Mad Flash, is
a seriously silly game for ages 6 and up that runs on an iPad. It is equally
accessible to blind and sighted players and adaptable to different levels of
play.
The evaluation period will run from approximately mid-March through April,
2017. If you have students in the elementary grades and would like to be
considered for the Mad Flash field test, please visit the following link and
provide the information requested:
https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/KV5KQLZ
Thanks!
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2017 19:00:04 -0500
From: Brian Richwine <blrichwine at gmail.com>
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] answer about LaTeX to html
Message-ID:
<CAMfmcGowUx5OaDmMa0KCerDKghUc4DOgBSv+arSAYPLXpbYBJg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
In my office we make a lot of accessible math eText and braille. Our editors
prefer to type LaTex into MS Word and then press Alt+\ to have MathType
convert the LaTex into a MathType object. It's much faster than working in
the MathType WYSIWYG user interface.
On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 3:04 PM, Doug and Molly Miron via Blindmath <
blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Good day Lukasz,
>
> I went totally blind about a year and a half ago, and I am an old
> research EE. I was told about MathPlayer with MathType and Word early
> on, but only learned about LaTeX and mathml a couple of months ago. My
> first experience was reading equations at Wikipedia, which pleasantly
> surprised me. Since MathType is inaccessible to me now, I am writing
> and manipulating equations in La TeX, which I may convert to html if I
> get good enough results to publish.
> If I were in your place, I probably would prefer to prepare material
> using Word and MathType as it seems more efficient than using LaTeX.
>
> Regards,
> Doug Miron
>
> -----Original Message----- From: ?ukaszGrabowski via Blindmath
> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 11:02 AM
> To: Lucas Radaelli
> Cc: ?ukaszGrabowski ; Blind Math list for those interested in
> mathematics
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] answer about LaTeX to html
>
>
> By the dafault it's the former, i.e. mathml. But it's very
> configurable and if you prefer latex source as alt then probably it
> can be done (although probably that's not much more helpful than
> reading the source)
>
> NVDA with math player does (what it seems to me is) a reasonable job
> with reading. You can try an example problem sheet here:
> http://www.lancaster.ac.uk/staff/grabows1/accessible/math103
> /Week14.tex/S0.SSx2.html
>
> Having said that, I'm preparing materials for a visually impaired
> student this year (legally bordercase blind, but with enough vision to
> read the above link at about 300% zoom), so I don't have any real
> experience on whether NVDA with mathplayer would work for a maths
> student with no vision at all.
>
> So if you are or know a blind maths student I would actually be very
> interested to know whether a page as above is accessible via NVDA with
> math player.
>
> Best,
> ?ukasz
>
>
> On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:45:37 -0200
> Lucas Radaelli <lucasradaelli at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Does latexml convert the output formulas to mathml or it puts the
>> Latex source as alt in the images? if the former, what to use to read
>> the formulas?
>>
>> On 16/02/2017 13:22, ?ukasz Grabowski via Blindmath wrote:
>> > Hi Russell,
>> >
>> > I speak as someone who has tried different approaches to converting
>> > latex to accessible html this year - pandoc is not good for this
>> > purpuse, you should really use latexml if you have a tex file which
>> > you need to convert to an accessible version.
>> >
>> > What pandoc is absolutely great for is writing new documents. Also
>> > if I had a blind maths student which I needed to teach to write
>> > mathematical documents, I would go with pandoc.
>> >
>> > The point is that pandoc very intelligently restricts what you can
>> > do in a document, allowng to focus on the content, lowering the
>> > numberof typos, etc.. But converting existing latex documents to
>> > pandoc (or should I say "pandoc markdown" to be completely correct)
>> > is a pain.
>> >
>> > Best,
>> > ?ukasz
>> >
>> > On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 08:13:34 -0700
>> > Russell Solowoniuk via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi Mathieu,
>> >>
>> >> Assuming one could obtain a math or physics textbook in LaTeX
>> >> format, would it be possible to run the textbook file through
>> >> Pandoc and end up with a screen reader accessible version of the
>> >> text? Or, would a lot of editing need to be done before using
>> >> Pandoc, i.e. removing images, diagrams, etc.?
>> >>
>> >> Thanks,
>> >>
>> >> Russell
>> >>
>> >> Russell Solowoniuk
>> >> AT Educational Assistant, Services to Students with Disabilities
>> >> MacEwan University
>> >> 7-198 D4, 10700-104 Ave.
>> >> Edmonton, AB T5J 4S2
>> >> E: solowoniukr at macewan.ca
>> >> T: 780-497-5826
>> >> F: 780-497-4018
>> >> macewan.ca
>> >> This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to
>> >> whom it is addressed and may contain confidential, personal,
>> >> and/or privileged information. Please contact me immediately if
>> >> you are not the intended recipient of this communication, and do
>> >> not copy, distribute, or take action relying on it. Any
>> >> communication received in error, or subsequent reply, should be
>> >> deleted or destroyed. Please consider the environment before
>> >> printing this email.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>>> Mathieu Barbe via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> 2017-02-16
>> >>>>> 3:20 AM >>>
>> >> Hi all,
>> >>
>> >> pandoc is a good solution to convert math.
>> >>
>> >> Pandoc can convert markdown to html with mathml or mathjax.
>> >> For instance :
>> >>
>> >> code markdown :
>> >>
>> >> % My title
>> >> % My name
>> >> % 16 Feb 2017
>> >>
>> >> # My equation and level 1
>> >>
>> >> This is a sum :
>> >>
>> >> $\sum_{i=0}^n i^2$
>> >>
>> >> End markdown code
>> >>
>> >> type in the command line :
>> >>
>> >> pandoc -s --mathml source.markdown -o out.html
>> >>
>> >> if you want mathjax instead of mathml, replace --mathml by
>> >> --mathjax!
>> >>
>> >> If you have LaTeX source you also convert in html web page.
>> >
>> >> however, if tex source contains specials commands, there may be
>> >> errors.
>> >>
>> >> command line :
>> >>
>> >> pandoc -s --mathml source.tex -o out.html
>> >>
>> >> The -s option ask to pandoc to generate header before your texte.
>> >>
>> >> ++ Mathieu
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Blindmath mailing list
>> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> >> for Blindmath:
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/solow
>> oniukr%40macewan.ca
>> >> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>> >> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Blindmath mailing list
>> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> >> for Blindmath:
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/grabo
>> luk%40gmail.com
>> >> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>> >> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Blindmath mailing list
>> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> > for Blindmath:
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/lucas
>> radaelli%40gmail.com
>> > BlindMath Gems can be found at
>> > <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/mndmrn%40hbci.c
> om
>
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/b
> lindmath-gems-home>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/blric
> hwine%40gmail.com
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/b
> lindmath-gems-home>
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2017 20:50:45 -0500
From: "Miranda B." <knownoflove at gmail.com>
To: <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [Blindmath] Status of JAWS and MyMath Lab compatibility?
Message-ID: <001c01d28be4$eb2d3ae0$c187b0a0$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi everyone,
Long story short, I took a personal finance class to satisfy my general math
requirement, as it used Microsoft Excel and was accessible with JAWS.
Moreover, at the time, MyMath Lab was not reliable with JAWS, and this is
what my university uses for their math courses. I'm now attempting to use
that course substitution as a prerequisite for a psychology statistics
course, and the chair of my school's psychology department is not wanting to
grant this request, as he says it doesn't fulfill the elementary statistics
needed for the psychology stats course. Yes, I plan to take this up with the
Disability Services office at my university, but I also want to provide the
psychology chair with accurate and up-to-date information as part of my
explanation.
I'm coming to all of you wanting to know the status of JAWS and MyMath Lab
accessibility?
Thanks in advance for your time and assistance, and have a wonderful week!
Best wishes, Miranda
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 02:05:21 +0000
From: ?ukasz Grabowski <graboluk at gmail.com>
To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] answer about LaTeX to html
Message-ID: <20170221020521.3c0b858f at brutus.lancaster.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
I didn't know that alt+\ functionality, I guess it improved since I last
tried it (probably ~15 years ago).
In any case I personally use linux and I'm very comfortable with latex so
I'd rather prepare accessible materials authored by myself in latex or
pandoc, and in case of latex convert it to mathml via latexml, as this much
more efficient time-wise.
But in a way this doesn't matter, as the part of my job pertaining to
preparing accessible lecture notes, etc. is really about dealing with
documents prepared by other people, and the reality is that at the
university level, mathematics lecture notes are almost always (as
in: I've never seen anything else) prepared in latex. In this situation
manual retyping to other formats is much more time consuming than running
latexml (even with this alt+\ functionality, as typically there are macros,
etc.)
One extra upshot important in a long run is that mathml is an open standard
well supported on a variety of platforms, whereas mathtype definitely is
not. Since there is a considerable number of blind linux users, in an ideal
word we should all use something which is supported on windows, mac and
linux.
Also there is an additional aspect: tools should also be efficient for a
blind maths student to author long mathematical texts, and here I imagine
the efficiency of editing latex or pandoc in a text editor could probably be
10 times better than using ms word.
Let me me mention that this is something which I personally consider very
paradoxical - I think my linux desktop and the way I and many other
'traditional' users use it could be a very attractive environment for blind
users - I spend most of my time writing text and reading text on a console -
if I have to do something which involves a "user interface" such as windows,
buttons, mouse, etc. then I get very unhappy.
I reckon in such an environment a blind user could be almost as productive
as a non-blind user. AND this is acknowledged by projects such as Emacspeak
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emacspeak) - I can't imagine there could be
a more efficient way for a blind person to use a computer for scientific
tasks than emacspeak.
Unfortunately - and this is the heart of the problem - the learning curve
for using something like emacs is incredibly long compared to a typical
windows application. For a sighted users starting to use emacs takes a few
days, and then months to become really comfortable. So although it really
hurts me to see my visually impaired student use the stupid windows
interfaces which are barely accessible, but not convenient at all, and
although I know that she could be way more efficient using something like
emacspeak, I'm not in a position to even suggest switching the environments
because it would take weeks and would need a dedicated support person
before she can start feeling the advantages.
Best,
?ukasz
On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 19:00:04 -0500
Brian Richwine via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> In my office we make a lot of accessible math eText and braille. Our
> editors prefer to type LaTex into MS Word and then press Alt+\ to have
> MathType convert the LaTex into a MathType object. It's much faster
> than working in the MathType WYSIWYG user interface.
>
> On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 3:04 PM, Doug and Molly Miron via Blindmath <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> > Good day Lukasz,
> >
> > I went totally blind about a year and a half ago, and I am an old
> > research EE. I was told about MathPlayer with MathType and Word
> > early on, but only learned about LaTeX and mathml a couple of months
> > ago. My first experience was reading equations at Wikipedia, which
> > pleasantly surprised me. Since MathType is inaccessible to me now,
> > I am writing and manipulating equations in La TeX, which I may
> > convert to html if I get good enough results to publish. If I were
> > in your place, I probably would prefer to prepare material using
> > Word and MathType as it seems more efficient than using LaTeX.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Doug Miron
> >
> > -----Original Message----- From: ?ukaszGrabowski via Blindmath
> > Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 11:02 AM
> > To: Lucas Radaelli
> > Cc: ?ukaszGrabowski ; Blind Math list for those interested in
> > mathematics Subject: Re: [Blindmath] answer about LaTeX to html
> >
> >
> > By the dafault it's the former, i.e. mathml. But it's very
> > configurable and if you prefer latex source as alt then probably it
> > can be done (although probably that's not much more helpful than
> > reading the source)
> >
> > NVDA with math player does (what it seems to me is) a reasonable job
> > with reading. You can try an example problem sheet here:
> > http://www.lancaster.ac.uk/staff/grabows1/accessible/math103
> > /Week14.tex/S0.SSx2.html
> >
> > Having said that, I'm preparing materials for a visually impaired
> > student this year (legally bordercase blind, but with enough vision
> > to read the above link at about 300% zoom), so I don't have any real
> > experience on whether NVDA with mathplayer would work for a maths
> > student with no vision at all.
> >
> > So if you are or know a blind maths student I would actually be very
> > interested to know whether a page as above is accessible via NVDA
> > with math player.
> >
> > Best,
> > ?ukasz
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:45:37 -0200
> > Lucas Radaelli <lucasradaelli at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Does latexml convert the output formulas to mathml or it puts the
> >> Latex source as alt in the images? if the former, what to use to
> >> read the formulas?
> >>
> >> On 16/02/2017 13:22, ?ukasz Grabowski via Blindmath wrote:
> >> > Hi Russell,
> >> >
> >> > I speak as someone who has tried different approaches to
> >> > converting latex to accessible html this year - pandoc is not
> >> > good for this purpuse, you should really use latexml if you have
> >> > a tex file which you need to convert to an accessible version.
> >> >
> >> > What pandoc is absolutely great for is writing new documents.
> >> > Also if I had a blind maths student which I needed to teach to
> >> > write mathematical documents, I would go with pandoc.
> >> >
> >> > The point is that pandoc very intelligently restricts what you
> >> > can do in a document, allowng to focus on the content, lowering
> >> > the numberof typos, etc.. But converting existing latex documents
> >> > to pandoc (or should I say "pandoc markdown" to be completely
> >> > correct) is a pain.
> >> >
> >> > Best,
> >> > ?ukasz
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 08:13:34 -0700 Russell Solowoniuk via
> >> > Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Hi Mathieu,
> >> >>
> >> >> Assuming one could obtain a math or physics textbook in LaTeX
> >> >> format, would it be possible to run the textbook file through
> >> >> Pandoc and end up with a screen reader accessible version of the
> >> >> text? Or, would a lot of editing need to be done before using
> >> >> Pandoc, i.e. removing images, diagrams, etc.?
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks,
> >> >>
> >> >> Russell
> >> >>
> >> >> Russell Solowoniuk
> >> >> AT Educational Assistant, Services to Students with Disabilities
> >> >> MacEwan University
> >> >> 7-198 D4, 10700-104 Ave.
> >> >> Edmonton, AB T5J 4S2
> >> >> E: solowoniukr at macewan.ca
> >> >> T: 780-497-5826
> >> >> F: 780-497-4018
> >> >> macewan.ca
> >> >> This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to
> >> >> whom it is addressed and may contain confidential, personal,
> >> >> and/or privileged information. Please contact me immediately if
> >> >> you are not the intended recipient of this communication, and do
> >> >> not copy, distribute, or take action relying on it. Any
> >> >> communication received in error, or subsequent reply, should be
> >> >> deleted or destroyed. Please consider the environment before
> >> >> printing this email.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>>>> Mathieu Barbe via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> 2017-02-16
> >> >>>>> 3:20 AM >>>
> >> >> Hi all,
> >> >>
> >> >> pandoc is a good solution to convert math.
> >> >>
> >> >> Pandoc can convert markdown to html with mathml or mathjax.
> >> >> For instance :
> >> >>
> >> >> code markdown :
> >> >>
> >> >> % My title
> >> >> % My name
> >> >> % 16 Feb 2017
> >> >>
> >> >> # My equation and level 1
> >> >>
> >> >> This is a sum :
> >> >>
> >> >> $\sum_{i=0}^n i^2$
> >> >>
> >> >> End markdown code
> >> >>
> >> >> type in the command line :
> >> >>
> >> >> pandoc -s --mathml source.markdown -o out.html
> >> >>
> >> >> if you want mathjax instead of mathml, replace --mathml by
> >> >> --mathjax!
> >> >>
> >> >> If you have LaTeX source you also convert in html web page.
> >> >
> >> >> however, if tex source contains specials commands, there may be
> >> >> errors.
> >> >>
> >> >> command line :
> >> >>
> >> >> pandoc -s --mathml source.tex -o out.html
> >> >>
> >> >> The -s option ask to pandoc to generate header before your
> >> >> texte.
> >> >>
> >> >> ++ Mathieu
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Blindmath mailing list
> >> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> >> >> info for Blindmath:
> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/solow
> >> oniukr%40macewan.ca
> >> >> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> >> >> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Blindmath mailing list
> >> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> >> >> info for Blindmath:
> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/grabo
> >> luk%40gmail.com
> >> >> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> >> >> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Blindmath mailing list
> >> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >> > for Blindmath:
> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/lucas
> >> radaelli%40gmail.com
> >> > BlindMath Gems can be found at
> >> > <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > for Blindmath:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/mndmrn%40hbci
> > .com
> >
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/b
> > lindmath-gems-home>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > for Blindmath:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/blric
> > hwine%40gmail.com
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/b
> > lindmath-gems-home>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/graboluk%40gmai
> l.com
> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2017 21:00:17 -0600
From: Amanda Lacy <lacy925 at gmail.com>
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] answer about LaTeX to html
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<CABKqQvHVgwrZGcocM8gsY1K6qhoQcqQ4bOH2xGkLyet+XmBs6Q at mail.gmail.com>
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Did you see the recent announcement about the equation navigator in
Emacspeak? I haven't had a chance to test it yet.
Which Linux do you use? I recently tried Vinux but I think I'll go with
plain Ubuntu instead. Vinux is based on an old version of Ubuntu.
I couldn't accomplish tasks that should be simple, like setting up wi-fi. I
like the command-line interface and reasonable GUIs. I have a CS degree and
find MS Word so intimidating that I haven't touched it in seven years. There
are many unreasonable GUIs out there that I can't understand how to use but
other blind people manage them. I wonder how they conceptualize those
interfaces.
On 2/20/17, ?ukasz Grabowski via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> I didn't know that alt+\ functionality, I guess it improved since I
> last tried it (probably ~15 years ago).
>
> In any case I personally use linux and I'm very comfortable with latex
> so I'd rather prepare accessible materials authored by myself in latex
> or pandoc, and in case of latex convert it to mathml via latexml, as
> this much more efficient time-wise.
>
> But in a way this doesn't matter, as the part of my job pertaining to
> preparing accessible lecture notes, etc. is really about dealing with
> documents prepared by other people, and the reality is that at the
> university level, mathematics lecture notes are almost always (as
> in: I've never seen anything else) prepared in latex. In this
> situation manual retyping to other formats is much more time consuming
> than running latexml (even with this alt+\ functionality, as typically
> there are macros, etc.)
>
> One extra upshot important in a long run is that mathml is an open
> standard well supported on a variety of platforms, whereas mathtype
> definitely is not. Since there is a considerable number of blind linux
> users, in an ideal word we should all use something which is supported
> on windows, mac and linux.
>
> Also there is an additional aspect: tools should also be efficient for
> a blind maths student to author long mathematical texts, and here I
> imagine the efficiency of editing latex or pandoc in a text editor
> could probably be 10 times better than using ms word.
>
> Let me me mention that this is something which I personally consider
> very paradoxical - I think my linux desktop and the way I and many
> other 'traditional' users use it could be a very attractive
> environment for blind users - I spend most of my time writing text and
> reading text on a console - if I have to do something which involves a
> "user interface" such as windows, buttons, mouse, etc. then I get very
> unhappy.
>
> I reckon in such an environment a blind user could be almost as
> productive as a non-blind user. AND this is acknowledged by projects
> such as Emacspeak (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emacspeak) - I can't
> imagine there could be a more efficient way for a blind person to use
> a computer for scientific tasks than emacspeak.
>
> Unfortunately - and this is the heart of the problem - the learning
> curve for using something like emacs is incredibly long compared to a
> typical windows application. For a sighted users starting to use emacs
> takes a few days, and then months to become really comfortable. So
> although it really hurts me to see my visually impaired student use
> the stupid windows interfaces which are barely accessible, but not
> convenient at all, and although I know that she could be way more
> efficient using something like emacspeak, I'm not in a position to
> even suggest switching the environments because it would take weeks
> and would need a dedicated support person before she can start feeling
> the advantages.
>
> Best,
> ?ukasz
>
> On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 19:00:04 -0500
> Brian Richwine via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
>> In my office we make a lot of accessible math eText and braille. Our
>> editors prefer to type LaTex into MS Word and then press Alt+\ to
>> have MathType convert the LaTex into a MathType object. It's much
>> faster than working in the MathType WYSIWYG user interface.
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 3:04 PM, Doug and Molly Miron via Blindmath <
>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> > Good day Lukasz,
>> >
>> > I went totally blind about a year and a half ago, and I am an old
>> > research EE. I was told about MathPlayer with MathType and Word
>> > early on, but only learned about LaTeX and mathml a couple of
>> > months ago. My first experience was reading equations at Wikipedia,
>> > which pleasantly surprised me. Since MathType is inaccessible to
>> > me now, I am writing and manipulating equations in La TeX, which I
>> > may convert to html if I get good enough results to publish. If I
>> > were in your place, I probably would prefer to prepare material
>> > using Word and MathType as it seems more efficient than using
>> > LaTeX.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Doug Miron
>> >
>> > -----Original Message----- From: ?ukaszGrabowski via Blindmath
>> > Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 11:02 AM
>> > To: Lucas Radaelli
>> > Cc: ?ukaszGrabowski ; Blind Math list for those interested in
>> > mathematics Subject: Re: [Blindmath] answer about LaTeX to html
>> >
>> >
>> > By the dafault it's the former, i.e. mathml. But it's very
>> > configurable and if you prefer latex source as alt then probably it
>> > can be done (although probably that's not much more helpful than
>> > reading the source)
>> >
>> > NVDA with math player does (what it seems to me is) a reasonable
>> > job with reading. You can try an example problem sheet here:
>> > http://www.lancaster.ac.uk/staff/grabows1/accessible/math103
>> > /Week14.tex/S0.SSx2.html
>> >
>> > Having said that, I'm preparing materials for a visually impaired
>> > student this year (legally bordercase blind, but with enough vision
>> > to read the above link at about 300% zoom), so I don't have any
>> > real experience on whether NVDA with mathplayer would work for a
>> > maths student with no vision at all.
>> >
>> > So if you are or know a blind maths student I would actually be
>> > very interested to know whether a page as above is accessible via
>> > NVDA with math player.
>> >
>> > Best,
>> > ?ukasz
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:45:37 -0200
>> > Lucas Radaelli <lucasradaelli at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Does latexml convert the output formulas to mathml or it puts the
>> >> Latex source as alt in the images? if the former, what to use to
>> >> read the formulas?
>> >>
>> >> On 16/02/2017 13:22, ?ukasz Grabowski via Blindmath wrote:
>> >> > Hi Russell,
>> >> >
>> >> > I speak as someone who has tried different approaches to
>> >> > converting latex to accessible html this year - pandoc is not
>> >> > good for this purpuse, you should really use latexml if you have
>> >> > a tex file which you need to convert to an accessible version.
>> >> >
>> >> > What pandoc is absolutely great for is writing new documents.
>> >> > Also if I had a blind maths student which I needed to teach to
>> >> > write mathematical documents, I would go with pandoc.
>> >> >
>> >> > The point is that pandoc very intelligently restricts what you
>> >> > can do in a document, allowng to focus on the content, lowering
>> >> > the numberof typos, etc.. But converting existing latex
>> >> > documents to pandoc (or should I say "pandoc markdown" to be
>> >> > completely correct) is a pain.
>> >> >
>> >> > Best,
>> >> > ?ukasz
>> >> >
>> >> > On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 08:13:34 -0700 Russell Solowoniuk via
>> >> > Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Hi Mathieu,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Assuming one could obtain a math or physics textbook in LaTeX
>> >> >> format, would it be possible to run the textbook file through
>> >> >> Pandoc and end up with a screen reader accessible version of
>> >> >> the text? Or, would a lot of editing need to be done before
>> >> >> using Pandoc, i.e. removing images, diagrams, etc.?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Thanks,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Russell
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Russell Solowoniuk
>> >> >> AT Educational Assistant, Services to Students with
>> >> >> Disabilities MacEwan University
>> >> >> 7-198 D4, 10700-104 Ave.
>> >> >> Edmonton, AB T5J 4S2
>> >> >> E: solowoniukr at macewan.ca
>> >> >> T: 780-497-5826
>> >> >> F: 780-497-4018
>> >> >> macewan.ca
>> >> >> This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to
>> >> >> whom it is addressed and may contain confidential, personal,
>> >> >> and/or privileged information. Please contact me immediately
>> >> >> if you are not the intended recipient of this communication,
>> >> >> and do not copy, distribute, or take action relying on it. Any
>> >> >> communication received in error, or subsequent reply, should be
>> >> >> deleted or destroyed. Please consider the environment before
>> >> >> printing this email.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>> Mathieu Barbe via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>> >> >>>>> 2017-02-16
>> >> >>>>> 3:20 AM >>>
>> >> >> Hi all,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> pandoc is a good solution to convert math.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Pandoc can convert markdown to html with mathml or mathjax.
>> >> >> For instance :
>> >> >>
>> >> >> code markdown :
>> >> >>
>> >> >> % My title
>> >> >> % My name
>> >> >> % 16 Feb 2017
>> >> >>
>> >> >> # My equation and level 1
>> >> >>
>> >> >> This is a sum :
>> >> >>
>> >> >> $\sum_{i=0}^n i^2$
>> >> >>
>> >> >> End markdown code
>> >> >>
>> >> >> type in the command line :
>> >> >>
>> >> >> pandoc -s --mathml source.markdown -o out.html
>> >> >>
>> >> >> if you want mathjax instead of mathml, replace --mathml by
>> >> >> --mathjax!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> If you have LaTeX source you also convert in html web page.
>> >> >
>> >> >> however, if tex source contains specials commands, there may be
>> >> >> errors.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> command line :
>> >> >>
>> >> >> pandoc -s --mathml source.tex -o out.html
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The -s option ask to pandoc to generate header before your
>> >> >> texte.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ++ Mathieu
>> >> >>
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>> >> >>
>> >> >>
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>> >>
>> >
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