[Blindmath] {Spam?} Re: {Spam?} math type accessibility with jaws screen reader,

Mon Feb 27 23:07:06 UTC 2017

I can't say which display works best other than the obvious "the more
cells, the better" -- although Nemeth Code is more compact that UEB,
medium-sized equations will often take more than 40 cells.

Neil Soiffer

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 1:42 PM, Rebecca Maria Carvalho via Blindmath <
blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Thank you for your reply!
> So, we do hear Math speech for the Math with NVDA + MathPlayer.
> But so far we have been using the Focus 40 with JAWS. (I thought it only
> worked with JAWS). With JAWS we do get the Braille for the regular text in
> the Word file, but when it reaches the Math it displays its spelling in
> Braille rather than the Nemeth symbols.For example it would display "five
> plus five" and so on.
> Will try the Focus 40 with NVDA and try what you suggested.
> But could you also tell me which Refreshable Braillers work best and are
> used to display Nemeth with MathPlayer + NVDA to read MathType Equations
> directly from your Word file ?
> Rebecca
>
>
>
> Sent from RediffmailNG on Android
>
>
>
>
> From: Neil Soiffer <soiffer at alum.mit.edu>
> Sent: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 01:42:08 GMT+0530
> To: Rebecca Maria Carvalho <rebecca at xrcvc.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] {Spam?} math type accessibility with jaws screen
> reader,
>
> NVDA asks MathPlayer for the braille and then sends it to the braille
> display. If NVDA supports the Focus 4, then it should work. According to
> their documentation, all Focus displays are supported. If you aren't
> getting braille for text in a Word document, then their is some problem
> with your NVDA/braille display setup.
>
> If you do get braille for regular text and can hear the math speech when
> moving to math, then you should be getting braille for the math. One thing
> to check is to make sure Braille is set to Nemeth -- see the MathPlayer
> manual on how to check/set the value (it defaults to Nemeth).
>
> Neil Soiffer
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 11:58 AM, Rebecca Maria Carvalho &
> lt;rebecca at xrcvc.org> wrote:
> Hi,
> Regarding point 4 in your email, you mentioned that MathType's equations
> in Word can be read in Nemeth on Refreshable Braille displays with NVDA +
> Math Player.
> Which Refreshable Braille Display can be used for this?And how would one
> go about it ?
> I have tried reading MathType Equations from Word on the Focus 40
> Refreshable Braille Display, but it did not display Nemeth.
> We have been looking for the solution to this for a while but have not
> been able to find any Refreshable Braille Display that displays Nemeth
> Braille Code.Please do let us know.
> Rebecca
> Sent from RediffmailNG on Android
>
> From: Neil Soiffer via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 10:33:32 GMT+0530
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics &
> lt;blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] {Spam?}  math type accessibility with jaws screen
> reader,
>
> A few notes and clarifications about MathType:
>
>
>
> 1.  LaTeX is not the underlying language for MathType -- LaTeX along
> with
>
> MathML and a few other formats are alternative representations that
>
> MathType supports for import and export.
>
>
>
> 2. The translator from MathType to LaTeX is somewhat simple and puts in far
>
> more braces than are needed. It's easier to generate that way and legal
>
> LaTeX. It does unfortunately make it harder to read and listen to.
>
>
>
> 3.  If you type LaTeX and convert it to MathType, MathType will
> remember
>
> the original LaTeX and preserve it unless you edit the equation in
>
> MathType. So if you start with LaTeX without many braces, convert it to
>
> MathType and convert it back to LaTeX, it will look exactly the way you
>
> typed it.
>
>
>
> 4.  If you can't see normal math notation, a VERY big advantage of
> using
>
> Word+MathType+NVDA+MathPlayer when entering LaTeX is that once you convert
>
> the LaTeX to normal math notation, it can be read by NVDA+MathPlayer and
>
> displayed in Nemeth on a refreshible braille display. That's important
>
> because you have no way of knowing if you made a mistake in typing the
>
> LaTeX without getting that feedback. Making occasional mistakes in LaTeX
>
> happens to everyone, so getting feedback via sight, sound, or touch is
>
> really important if you want to make sure others understand what you wrote.
>
>
>
> 5.  AFAIK, JAWS does not support speaking/brailling math in Word
> documents.
>
> If that has changed in the last year, please let me and others on the list
>
> know.
>
>
>
> I hope that clarifies a few things,
>
>
>
> Neil Soiffer
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 1:04 PM, Louis Maher via Blindmath <
>
> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi Doug,
>
> >
>
> > I borrow the document I sent the list from another person.  I
> did not write
>
> > it, and I can't answer questions on its syntax.  I am just
> starting to
>
> > learn
>
> > Latex and MathType.
>
> >
>
> > I do not know if it matters, but I am a JAWS user.
>
> >
>
> > I was able to turn the equation image into Latex and back to an image
> by
>
> > using alt+.  When I was looking at the Latex version of the
> equation, I
>
> > moved the cursor onto the first $ and hit alt+, and the equation
> turned
>
> > back into an image.  I am using Office 2016, JAWS 18, and
> MathType 6.9.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Regards
>
> > Louis Maher
>
> > Phone: 713-444-7838
>
> > E-mail: ljmaher at swbell.net
>
> >
>
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> > From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Doug
>
> > and
>
> > Molly Miron via Blindmath
>
> > Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2017 2:16 PM
>
> > To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>
> > <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>
> > Cc: Doug and Molly Miron <mndmrn at hbci.com>
>
> > Subject: [Blindmath] {Spam?} Re: math type accessibility with jaws
> screen
>
> > reader,
>
> >
>
> > Good day Louis,
>
> >
>
> > I'm new to TeX and LaTeX and found your message very helpful.  I
> didn't
>
> > know
>
> > that TeX is the underlying language for MathType.  Also, it took
> me a while
>
> > to discover that alt+ is alt+[backslash] because NVDA doesn't read the
>
> > character unless I single-step through it.  After reading your
> example
>
> > document, I opened, in current versions of Word, MathType and
> MathPlayer, a
>
> > document I'd written several years ago inold versions of Word and
> MathType.
>
> > The alt+ brought out the underlying TeX, but it wouldn't convert
> back.  In
>
> > your example and my old document, exponents are heavily braced, even
> when
>
> > there is only one character.  Why is this?  In your e-mail
> integral example
>
> > it seems you got away with minimal bracing.  The letter "n"
> seems to be
>
> > used
>
> > as a filler in multi-line equations.  Can yoou recommend a
> reference for
>
> > math type-setting in TeX or LaTeX?  Thanks.
>
> >
>
> > Regards,
>
> > Doug Miron
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> >     From: Louis Maher via Blindmath
>
> > Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 7:05 PM
>
> > To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
>
> > Cc: Louis Maher ; 'tolga karatas'
>
> > Subject: Re: [Blindmath] math type accessibility with jaws screen
> reader,
>
> >
>
> > Hello Tolga,
>
> >
>
> > If you are willing to learn LaTex, MathType is accessible for the
> blind
>
> > with
>
> > JAWS.  Here is a message I received from Neil Soiffer (I do not
> have a
>
> > current e-mail address for Neil).  Note that while he talks
> about NVDA,
>
> > MathTypes works well in JAWS.
>
> >
>
> > I do not think you need MathPlayer in JAWS.
>
> > -----
>
> > "You can use Word+NVDA+MathPlayer+MathType to author and read math if
> you
>
> > are willing to learn the math component of LaTeX. If you already have
> a
>
> > document with math in it, then the above combination will work for
> *reading
>
> > *and navigating the math by speech. If you want to author math, then
> in
>
> > Word
>
> > you can type in some LaTeX between $ $ and use MathType to convert
> that
>
> > into
>
> > MathType math (so it looks nice), which can then be spoken and
> navigated.
>
> > Given that it is easy to make a mistake in LaTeX, hearing the math
> gives
>
> > you
>
> > a way to know that you have typed it correctly. If you didn't, then
> you
>
> > convert it back into LaTeX and edit it and listen again.
>
> >
>
> > FYI: changing between LaTeX and vice-versa is done with ""Toggle TeX""
>
> > which
>
> > has the keyboard shortcut alt+. As the name ""Toggle"" implies, alt+
> will
>
> > also change the MathType equation back to TeX.
>
> >
>
> > Here is a concrete example, if you want to write ""the integral from
> 0 to
>
> > 10
>
> > of x times e to the negative 2x power, d x"", you would type into
> Word:
>
> > $int_0^{10} x e^{-2 x} dx$ alt+
>
> >
>
> > Press left arrow to move before the math to make NVDA read the math
> to you.
>
> > If you made a mistake, type alt+ and move right to edit the LaTeX.
>
> >
>
> > FYI: when I initially typed the example, I made a common TeX error of
> not
>
> > putting the ""10"" inside of {}s. Be careful to add braces to any
> subscript
>
> > or superscript that is more than one character.
>
> >
>
> > Neil Soiffer
>
> > Use insert equations to start entering an equation.
>
> >
>
> > -----
>
> >
>
> > If you are on the image of an equation, you type alt+backslash and the
>
> > equation will be converted to LaTex, and you can read and change it.
>
> >
>
> > I have attached an example file to try this.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I am just beginning to learn this.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Regards
>
> > Louis Maher
>
> > Phone: 713-444-7838
>
> > E-mail: ljmaher at swbell.net
>
> >
>
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> > From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> tolga
>
> > karatas via Blindmath
>
> > Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 4:45 PM
>
> > To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
>
> > Cc: tolga karatas <tolga.karatas2014 at gmail.com>
>
> > Subject: [Blindmath] math type accessibility with jaws screen reader,
>
> >
>
> > Dear Sir/madam,
>
> >
>
> > I am a visually impaired studying a  degree in BSC Business
> Information
>
> > technology:
>
> >
>
> > I would like to use Math Type with a screen reader called Jaws, but
> jaws
>
> > isn't user friendly with math type due to LaTEX not being user
> friendly
>
> > either, how can I over come this challenge please? I really want to
> use
>
> > math
>
> > type with Jaws Screen reader, however, the accessibility is not their.
>
> >
>
> > Can someone advise me as to how I can solve this problem/challenge
> please?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Yours Faithfully,
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Tolga Karatas
>
> >
>
> > I am a blind student studying BSC Business Information Technology.
>
> >
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
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>
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>
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>
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> > Blindmath:
>
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>
> > ljmaher%40swbell.net
>
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at
>
> > <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> > Blindmath mailing list
>
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>
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> mndmrn%40hbci.com
>
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at
>
> > <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
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>
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>
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>
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>
> > ljmaher%40swbell.net
>
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at
>
> > <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> > Blindmath mailing list
>
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>
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>
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>
> > soiffer%40alum.mit.edu
>
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
>
> > blindmath-gems-home>
>
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
>
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>
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> org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
>
>
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> blindmath-gems-home>
>