[BlindMath] 3 Dimensional Graphs

Sun Apr 8 23:31:14 UTC 2018

This is an interesting and timely topic.  When I majored in math, many of
the tools that are available today were not available, most certainly 3D
printing.  <smile>  I can see where 3D printing might be useful to try to
establish in a blind student's mind the results of a particular graph and
perhaps make the concept of revolving a two-dimensional graph to create a
solid.  There are those who think, though, that we need every
three-dimensional drawing created with a 3D printer to truly achieve equal
access to the information.  I'm not certain that is true.  While a
three-dimensional drawing can capture some elements visually of what an
object would look like, it isn't necessarily as clear as would be a model
either.  A print three-dimensional drawing conveys more, in my opinion, than
does trying to represent that same drawing with two-dimensional tactile
drawings, though.  However, at some level, all of us, blind or sighted, have
to understand
 the idea of a two dimensional slice and how that might be rotated, for
example,.  I wonder sometimes if we are not putting too much hope on 3D
printing as a solution.  We are going to have to figure out its role just as
we have to figure out the roles of other tools we use.  These are
interesting times.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Brian Kootte via
BlindMath
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2018 5:01 PM
To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
Cc: Brian Kootte <bkootte at triumf.ca>
Subject: Re: [BlindMath] 3 Dimensional Graphs

Hello Sabra,

I just wanted to make a quick general comment about 3D plotting in the 
physical sciences. Often 3D plots are not particularly helpful and are 
done more for visual appeal than to convey information effectively. The 
usefulness of a 3D plot really depends on the situation.

For a really complicated 3D data set it can be impossible to make a 
useful 3D plot, and if data is sufficiently simple (for example symmetry 
around an axis or something) then looking at either a 2D slice of the 
data, or a projection of it, or a series of 2D slices can be just as 
informative.

At least this is my take on it.

For the record, I am a sighted person who just finished a graduate 
course on data analysis. I used the Python language and a number of very 
useful libraries for working with data sets including NumPy. A cool 
thing is that Python gets used a lot in industry these days. MATLAB can 
also do most of this.

Best wishes,

Brian

On 2018-04-07 5:00 AM, blindmath-request at nfbnet.org wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
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>     1. Re: 3 Dimensional Graphs (Sabra Ewing)
>     2. Re: 3 Dimensional Graphs (Sabra Ewing)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2018 17:14:59 -0600
> From: Sabra Ewing <sabra1023 at gmail.com>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> 	<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] 3 Dimensional Graphs
> Message-ID: <9EE6F8CA-DCF0-48A1-B15A-23128E03D021 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=utf-8
>
> You are correct. I do prefer to listen. However, I still believe that
Braille is very important and I'm glad that I know it. There are some things
like math and science that I need to be able to read. And if I am writing
something long, I will write using a combination of braille and speech.
Sometimes I like to get what I have written and read it to myself out loud,
and I cannot do that without braille. I actually want to read it to myself
instead of having something else read it to me. I can look for grammar and
typos a lot easier. Also, if I am doing a speech or a presentation, my notes
need to be in braille. I would say that I use both for different purposes
and a lot of times I use a mixture of speech and braille. If something is
really hard for me to understand, I might understand it better if I read and
listen at the same time. Some math equations we're very hard for me to read
and I had to have someone repeat the equation to me as I read it at the same
time. I couldn'!
>   t read the braille, that was not the problem. These equations were just
so complicated. It is pretty annoying that my phone does not have very good
braille support. When I write an email on my phone as I am doing now, it can
be harder. The braille screen input on my phone is also hard for me to use.
However, if I were reading a novel or even a training manual, I would prefer
to listen to it. When I am cooking, I prefer to listen to the recipe and
follow the steps as I hear what to do. If I am socializing with someone, I
would prefer to talk to them instead of write to them.
>
> Sabra Ewing
>
>> On Apr 6, 2018, at 3:51 AM, Brandon Keith Biggs via BlindMath
<blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hello Sabra,
>>
>> I completely understand what you are talking about. I also bet that you
>> tend not to read Braille if you don?t need to, you like to talk to
someone
>> about your ideas to work them out in your head, and you listen to books
>> rather than reading them in Braille.
>>
>>  From my research, the best explanation is learning modalities. Fleming
>> (2014) presents a very good summery of learning modalities:
>>
>>
https://web.archive.org/web/20150314235648/http://vark-learn.com/introductio
n-to-vark/the-vark-modalities/
>>
<https://web.archive.org/web/20150314235648/http:/vark-learn.com/introductio
n-to-vark/the-vark-modalities/>
>>
>>
>>
>> Much of our educational system is completely visual, but blind children
are
>> uniquely taught to effectively use 2 modalities, touch and sound, so they
>> understand that they are not stupid, they learn better through listening,
>> rather than reading Braille (or the other way around). One of my
arguments
>> supporting cross-sensory representations is that one of the biggest
reasons
>> for the massive drop in math scores in the U.S. is that sighted children
>> are being born with a dominant modality other than visual. They are only
>> taught the visual modality, so they think they are bad at math and this
>> reflects in their test scores. One of my objectives is to make an
argument
>> for teaching cross-sensory literacy in school. My hypothesis is that if
>> students are able to learn in their primary modality, they will have at
>> least a 15% increase in their grades throughout school. My MRP aims to
>> perform a study quantifying the differences between giving people a
single
>> sensory representation vs a cross-sensory representation. There is so
much
>> evidence that people learn better when presented with multiple
modalities,
>> that I am very confident that the cross-sensory representation is going
to
>> be much more effective.
>>
>>
>> Our goal now is to figure out what representations are the most
effective.
>> We just submitted a paper to the International Conference of Auditory
>> Display (ICAD) on the types of maps used in Audio Games:
>>
>>
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TKBv24qCeed6DeHrMrdLLByyjemLP2Dw/view?usp=s
haring
>>
>> We?re arguing that Audio games can inform infographic and mapping
auditory
>> design.
>>
>>
>>
>> For tactile, we also submitted an abstract to an aesthetics conference
that
>> points to several studies showing that 3D tactile representations are
>> significantly more effective than 2D representations.
>>
>>
>>
>> Our goal is to create a systematic way of creating cross-sensory
>> representations with the eventual goal of making a platform for people to
>> create a representation in one modality and have it translated into other
>> modalities. Current tools that do this successful translation between
>> modalities are Braille translation programs like DBT. We hope to create
the
>> same kind of tool for pictographic representations.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Brandon Keith Biggs <http://brandonkeithbiggs.com/>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 9:48 PM, Sabra Ewing via BlindMath <
>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I basically wanted to use my microphones for making maps, but I can't do
>>> everything I want. I want to be able to pipe a three-dimensional arrow
into
>>> my Maps so that I don't have to narrate anything. When I turn, the aero
>>> will just change. I also want some sort of scaling mechanism so that I
can
>>> listen to a map in a shorter time, but still get the entire thing.
>>> Sometimes it works to pause the recording and then record every so often
as
>>> you get closer to an intersection for example, so it seems like you got
to
>>> the intersection and 30 seconds when it may have taken two or three
>>> minutes, but I want something more uniform. Another thing for your
sensory
>>> research is that you need to have different categories. You need to have
>>> people who were born blind and people who became blind later in life. I
was
>>> born with light perception, but medically, I am considered totally
blind.
>>> It seems like to me that only people who are born blind have this
>>> experience of it sound turning into shape. This happened to me
>>> automatically. And sound turn into shape for blind people in a logical
way
>>> or no one would be able to create software that replicates it. But from
my
>>> observations, people who were not born blind, even if they were cited
for
>>> short time, do not experience this. For example, my boyfriend was
partially
>>> blind for around one or two years and then he became totally blind, but
he
>>> does not experience this. However, even if people who are totally blind
>>> experience this automatically, I wonder if people who have been blind
for a
>>> long time like my boyfriend can easily have their brain trained to this
>>> method. I have gone through all sorts of training to learn to read
tactile
>>> images that has been largely ineffective. I wonder if maybe I will never
be
>>> able to read them in the same way that sighted people will not be able
to
>>> read audio images and maps. I also wonder how the brain of a deaf blind
>>> person works. It has been scientifically proven that blind people
process
>>> sound through the visual cortex although I don't think sighted people
>>> really know what that means, so how did the brains of death blind people
>>> process spatial information? I was also reading articles about sided
deaf
>>> people that they process vision through the auditory cortex. I wonder
what
>>> that would be like. I am very sure that I processed sound through the
>>> visual cortex although I have not really had a brain scan. I can read
very
>>> simple tactile images, but with the more complicated ones, it is just a
>>> jumble of lines that do not make sense to me. I got through calculus
barely
>>> being able to read the graphs. I barely passed, and I did many things
>>> algebraically. I could've gotten so much more out of it if I had been
able
>>> to read those graphs though. Growing up, sighted therapists told me that
I
>>> had spatial deficits I was just born with and that I would have to
except
>>> these limitations. Blindness has never been disabling to me. It has
always
>>> been an asset to me because The way I process a lot of information has
been
>>> right for me and consistent with the way I am meant to be based on my
>>> identity. However, The way I process spatial information has always been
>>> disabling to me. I thought for a long time that I would never be able to
>>> process this information. I would never be able to travel as effectively
as
>>> other people because I could not read a map or understand where I was, I
>>> would never be able to understand chemistry because of the electrons and
>>> the energy levels, I would never be able to understand biology because
the
>>> way we evolved from a sponge into human is actually very spatial, I
would
>>> have limited access to math, and I would have trouble with basic things
>>> like fitting the greatest amount of dishes into the dishwasher. My own
>>> parents did not even understand what it meant. My mom could never
>>> understand why always went to the kitchen trashcan the same way. She
said I
>>> should go there a different way depending on where I was in the kitchen
and
>>> I could never understand it.Now I see that even this could have been an
>>> asset instead of a disabling condition if it had been treated
>>> appropriately. I don't even think this condition has a name, but I think
it
>>> should be treated differently than blindness. No one has a name for it.
I
>>> have never been able to get official documentation for it. At first
growing
>>> up, I did not even know I had it. I have tried to explain it to
professors,
>>> but I don't know how. I know that other people's brains work differently
>>> because I observed them more and more as I got older and I learned about
>>> the discrepancies concerning information they could process that I could
>>> not. However, I cannot explain what it is like. I cannot think of any
>>> simulation that would explain it either. I think that if I had been able
to
>>> communicate what it was like to some professors, they would have figured
>>> out what to do to help me and I could have done well in math. A lot of
my
>>> professors were pretty smart and they did want to help. I wish this
>>> condition had a name and that there were mainstream alternative
techniques
>>> for it. Yes, you can work around it. For example, you can use algebra to
>>> understand something if you can't read a graph, but alternative
techniques
>>> mean that you do the same thing as other people, just in an alternative
>>> way. So what I mean is that I want to process spatial information just
like
>>> other people, but in an alternative way, and I know I can. I know now
that
>>> the spatial part of my brain is not broken like those therapists said it
>>> was. If that part truly were broken, I would not be able to read a map
or
>>> graph no matter what form it came in. I tried to explain what it was
like
>>> to one professor, and she said that she understood and it is like not
>>> knowing which way up is. That is not what it is like though. Summa side
of
>>> people have it too, but I believe that people born blind are getting
this
>>> spatial thing in disproportionate numbers. I do not believe it is
because
>>> they need visual information, they were overprotected, or it was
genetic. I
>>> believe that we develop these spatial difficulties because we do not
>>> receive spatial information and the training to interpret it in an
>>> accessible format. I don't know if it is too late for me now. Even if we
>>> develop alternative techniques for this, I don't know if they can help
me
>>> now or if I would have had to start using them as a baby for them to be
>>> effective. I sometimes play this binaural game called A Blind Legend. I
can
>>> walk around in the game and do lots of things in it that were very hard
for
>>> me when I was playing text  adventures.
>>>
>>> Sabra Ewing
>>>
>>>> On Apr 5, 2018, at 10:11 PM, Sabra Ewing <sabra1023 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> There is a program called math tracks that does it. You put in
equations
>>> and it makes a graph. There is also an app called voice and a computer
>>> program called seeing with sound that can translate any picture into
sound.
>>> Math tracks is a bit better for grass though because you can get
>>> information on. Some things. The problem I had in school though was that
no
>>> one else knew how to use it to create audio graphs so I was just given
>>> tactile graphs that I could not read. I was able to understand two
>>> dimensional graphs with this set up. But what that means is that I
>>> understand them exactly the shape they are so you still cannot get a
>>> three-dimensional object that is a two dimensional picture and have me
>>> listen to it and understand it. I have been able to make recordings of
>>> three-dimensional objects with binaural microphones.
>>>> Sabra Ewing
>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 5, 2018, at 1:27 PM, Donald Winiecki via BlindMath <
>>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> Sabra, what software have you used to convert two-dimensional graphs
to
>>>>> sound?
>>>>>
>>>>> _don
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 12:47 PM, Sabra Ewing via BlindMath <
>>>>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> If you are good with sound editing, I would recommend making 3-D
audio
>>>>>> recordings of the graphs. There are programs that can import two
>>>>>> dimensional pictures and convert them into sound, but maybe you could
>>>>>> convert one of these programs to work for three-dimensional items or
>>> find a
>>>>>> method to do that on your own. You cannot get a three dimensional
graph
>>>>>> that is actually two dimensional and import it into one of these
>>> programs
>>>>>> though because it will not work. For example, I cube or just be like
a
>>>>>> bunch of squares, dotted lines, and diamonds. You would need to use
>>>>>> binaural sound and actually make it be three-dimensional. How you
>>> would do
>>>>>> this, I don't know, but audio really is your best bet. You will be
>>> able to
>>>>>> understand graphs with a Percision that you will not be able to with
a
>>> 3-D
>>>>>> printer. You will be able to experience graphs as they move around
and
>>>>>> rotate and change. If you cannot get this method to work, the only
>>> other
>>>>>> thing I can suggest is to have a reader or assistant look at the
>>> graphs and
>>>>>> reproduce them with modeling clay and braille labels. Depending on
how
>>>>>> invested you are, 3-D printers are getting more affordable. I think
>>> you can
>>>>>> get one for between 500 and $1000. If I were doing this, I would want
a
>>>>>> three-dimensional model I could I feel as well as a three-dimensional
>>> audio
>>>>>> version so that I could listen and feel at the same time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sabra Ewing
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Apr 5, 2018, at 9:21 AM, Michael Link via BlindMath <
>>>>>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> That is exactly my trouble. What an interesting idea.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Michael
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Apr 5, 2018, at 4:21 AM, Robin Williams via BlindMath <
>>>>>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have a friend who has experimented in such matters, particularly
>>>>>> making shapes encountered in topology. The main problem with 3D
>>> printing
>>>>>> appears to be the expense, as one tends to need larger objects
>>> depending on
>>>>>> the level of detail. It should be possible to produce something
>>> relatively
>>>>>> cheaply for standard surfaces, though.
>>>>>>>> There are R packages available that can readily produce the files
>>>>>> needed for 3D printing.
>>>>>>>> I agree this is worthy of further investigation. Attempting to
>>>>>> understand contour plots was certainly one of the most difficult
>>> problems I
>>>>>> encountered in my undergraduate and postgraduate work.
>>>>>>>> Bests,
>>>>>>>> Robin
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: BlindMath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>> Godfrey, Jonathan via BlindMath
>>>>>>>> Sent: 05 April 2018 03:29
>>>>>>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <
>>>>>> blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Cc: Godfrey, Jonathan <A.J.Godfrey at massey.ac.nz>
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] 3 Dimensional Graphs
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'd love to see some more done on creating such graphs using a 3d
>>>>>> printer.
>>>>>>>> I haven't yet had a chance to exercise this interest to date, but
>>>>>> creating 3d printer ready image files for statistical graphs is on my
>>> to-do
>>>>>> list.
>>>>>>>> Jonathan
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: BlindMath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>> Michael Link via BlindMath
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, 5 April 2018 2:10 p.m.
>>>>>>>> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> Cc: Michael Link <michaelllink1 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> Subject: [BlindMath] 3 Dimensional Graphs
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi All!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I?m an undergraduate mathematics student who is struggling with
>>>>>> figuring out the best assistive tech to use for understanding 3
>>> Dimensional
>>>>>> graphs.  Do any of you recommend certain programs or devices for
>>> graphs in
>>>>>> three dimensions?
>>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>> Michael
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> BlindMath mailing list
>>>>>>>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for
>>>>>> BlindMath:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
>>>>>> a.j.godfrey%40massey.ac.nz
>>>>>>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
>>>>>> blindmath-gems-home>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> BlindMath mailing list
>>>>>>>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
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>>>>>> BlindMath:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
>>>>>> robin.williams%40atass-sports.co.uk
>>>>>>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
>>>>>> blindmath-gems-home>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> BlindMath mailing list
>>>>>>>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
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>>>>>> BlindMath:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
>>>>>> michaelllink1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
>>>>>> blindmath-gems-home>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> BlindMath mailing list
>>>>>>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for
>>>>>> BlindMath:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
>>>>>> sabra1023%40gmail.com
>>>>>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
>>>>>> blindmath-gems-home>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> BlindMath mailing list
>>>>>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> BlindMath:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
>>>>>> dwiniecki%40handid.org
>>>>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
>>>>>> blindmath-gems-home>
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> BlindMath mailing list
>>>>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> BlindMath:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
>>> sabra1023%40gmail.com
>>>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
>>> blindmath-gems-home>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> blindmath-gems-home>
>>>
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BlindMath:
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2018 17:16:58 -0600
> From: Sabra Ewing <sabra1023 at gmail.com>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> 	<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] 3 Dimensional Graphs
> Message-ID: <A606B4C7-EAE1-4B23-A7B3-35CBA09C090B at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=utf-8
>
> As for math tracks, I just used it without any documentation so I don't
know how good the documentation is for it. If you cannot get it to play your
graph, you may have written an equation that has some sort of error in it.
Also, after you put in your equation, it will not play the graph
automatically. You have to press a button to get it to.
>
> Sabra Ewing
>
>> On Apr 6, 2018, at 3:51 AM, Brandon Keith Biggs via BlindMath
<blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hello Sabra,
>>
>> I completely understand what you are talking about. I also bet that you
>> tend not to read Braille if you don?t need to, you like to talk to
someone
>> about your ideas to work them out in your head, and you listen to books
>> rather than reading them in Braille.
>>
>>  From my research, the best explanation is learning modalities. Fleming
>> (2014) presents a very good summery of learning modalities:
>>
>>
https://web.archive.org/web/20150314235648/http://vark-learn.com/introductio
n-to-vark/the-vark-modalities/
>>
<https://web.archive.org/web/20150314235648/http:/vark-learn.com/introductio
n-to-vark/the-vark-modalities/>
>>
>>
>>
>> Much of our educational system is completely visual, but blind children
are
>> uniquely taught to effectively use 2 modalities, touch and sound, so they
>> understand that they are not stupid, they learn better through listening,
>> rather than reading Braille (or the other way around). One of my
arguments
>> supporting cross-sensory representations is that one of the biggest
reasons
>> for the massive drop in math scores in the U.S. is that sighted children
>> are being born with a dominant modality other than visual. They are only
>> taught the visual modality, so they think they are bad at math and this
>> reflects in their test scores. One of my objectives is to make an
argument
>> for teaching cross-sensory literacy in school. My hypothesis is that if
>> students are able to learn in their primary modality, they will have at
>> least a 15% increase in their grades throughout school. My MRP aims to
>> perform a study quantifying the differences between giving people a
single
>> sensory representation vs a cross-sensory representation. There is so
much
>> evidence that people learn better when presented with multiple
modalities,
>> that I am very confident that the cross-sensory representation is going
to
>> be much more effective.
>>
>>
>> Our goal now is to figure out what representations are the most
effective.
>> We just submitted a paper to the International Conference of Auditory
>> Display (ICAD) on the types of maps used in Audio Games:
>>
>>
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TKBv24qCeed6DeHrMrdLLByyjemLP2Dw/view?usp=s
haring
>>
>> We?re arguing that Audio games can inform infographic and mapping
auditory
>> design.
>>
>>
>>
>> For tactile, we also submitted an abstract to an aesthetics conference
that
>> points to several studies showing that 3D tactile representations are
>> significantly more effective than 2D representations.
>>
>>
>>
>> Our goal is to create a systematic way of creating cross-sensory
>> representations with the eventual goal of making a platform for people to
>> create a representation in one modality and have it translated into other
>> modalities. Current tools that do this successful translation between
>> modalities are Braille translation programs like DBT. We hope to create
the
>> same kind of tool for pictographic representations.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Brandon Keith Biggs <http://brandonkeithbiggs.com/>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 9:48 PM, Sabra Ewing via BlindMath <
>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I basically wanted to use my microphones for making maps, but I can't do
>>> everything I want. I want to be able to pipe a three-dimensional arrow
into
>>> my Maps so that I don't have to narrate anything. When I turn, the aero
>>> will just change. I also want some sort of scaling mechanism so that I
can
>>> listen to a map in a shorter time, but still get the entire thing.
>>> Sometimes it works to pause the recording and then record every so often
as
>>> you get closer to an intersection for example, so it seems like you got
to
>>> the intersection and 30 seconds when it may have taken two or three
>>> minutes, but I want something more uniform. Another thing for your
sensory
>>> research is that you need to have different categories. You need to have
>>> people who were born blind and people who became blind later in life. I
was
>>> born with light perception, but medically, I am considered totally
blind.
>>> It seems like to me that only people who are born blind have this
>>> experience of it sound turning into shape. This happened to me
>>> automatically. And sound turn into shape for blind people in a logical
way
>>> or no one would be able to create software that replicates it. But from
my
>>> observations, people who were not born blind, even if they were cited
for
>>> short time, do not experience this. For example, my boyfriend was
partially
>>> blind for around one or two years and then he became totally blind, but
he
>>> does not experience this. However, even if people who are totally blind
>>> experience this automatically, I wonder if people who have been blind
for a
>>> long time like my boyfriend can easily have their brain trained to this
>>> method. I have gone through all sorts of training to learn to read
tactile
>>> images that has been largely ineffective. I wonder if maybe I will never
be
>>> able to read them in the same way that sighted people will not be able
to
>>> read audio images and maps. I also wonder how the brain of a deaf blind
>>> person works. It has been scientifically proven that blind people
process
>>> sound through the visual cortex although I don't think sighted people
>>> really know what that means, so how did the brains of death blind people
>>> process spatial information? I was also reading articles about sided
deaf
>>> people that they process vision through the auditory cortex. I wonder
what
>>> that would be like. I am very sure that I processed sound through the
>>> visual cortex although I have not really had a brain scan. I can read
very
>>> simple tactile images, but with the more complicated ones, it is just a
>>> jumble of lines that do not make sense to me. I got through calculus
barely
>>> being able to read the graphs. I barely passed, and I did many things
>>> algebraically. I could've gotten so much more out of it if I had been
able
>>> to read those graphs though. Growing up, sighted therapists told me that
I
>>> had spatial deficits I was just born with and that I would have to
except
>>> these limitations. Blindness has never been disabling to me. It has
always
>>> been an asset to me because The way I process a lot of information has
been
>>> right for me and consistent with the way I am meant to be based on my
>>> identity. However, The way I process spatial information has always been
>>> disabling to me. I thought for a long time that I would never be able to
>>> process this information. I would never be able to travel as effectively
as
>>> other people because I could not read a map or understand where I was, I
>>> would never be able to understand chemistry because of the electrons and
>>> the energy levels, I would never be able to understand biology because
the
>>> way we evolved from a sponge into human is actually very spatial, I
would
>>> have limited access to math, and I would have trouble with basic things
>>> like fitting the greatest amount of dishes into the dishwasher. My own
>>> parents did not even understand what it meant. My mom could never
>>> understand why always went to the kitchen trashcan the same way. She
said I
>>> should go there a different way depending on where I was in the kitchen
and
>>> I could never understand it.Now I see that even this could have been an
>>> asset instead of a disabling condition if it had been treated
>>> appropriately. I don't even think this condition has a name, but I think
it
>>> should be treated differently than blindness. No one has a name for it.
I
>>> have never been able to get official documentation for it. At first
growing
>>> up, I did not even know I had it. I have tried to explain it to
professors,
>>> but I don't know how. I know that other people's brains work differently
>>> because I observed them more and more as I got older and I learned about
>>> the discrepancies concerning information they could process that I could
>>> not. However, I cannot explain what it is like. I cannot think of any
>>> simulation that would explain it either. I think that if I had been able
to
>>> communicate what it was like to some professors, they would have figured
>>> out what to do to help me and I could have done well in math. A lot of
my
>>> professors were pretty smart and they did want to help. I wish this
>>> condition had a name and that there were mainstream alternative
techniques
>>> for it. Yes, you can work around it. For example, you can use algebra to
>>> understand something if you can't read a graph, but alternative
techniques
>>> mean that you do the same thing as other people, just in an alternative
>>> way. So what I mean is that I want to process spatial information just
like
>>> other people, but in an alternative way, and I know I can. I know now
that
>>> the spatial part of my brain is not broken like those therapists said it
>>> was. If that part truly were broken, I would not be able to read a map
or
>>> graph no matter what form it came in. I tried to explain what it was
like
>>> to one professor, and she said that she understood and it is like not
>>> knowing which way up is. That is not what it is like though. Summa side
of
>>> people have it too, but I believe that people born blind are getting
this
>>> spatial thing in disproportionate numbers. I do not believe it is
because
>>> they need visual information, they were overprotected, or it was
genetic. I
>>> believe that we develop these spatial difficulties because we do not
>>> receive spatial information and the training to interpret it in an
>>> accessible format. I don't know if it is too late for me now. Even if we
>>> develop alternative techniques for this, I don't know if they can help
me
>>> now or if I would have had to start using them as a baby for them to be
>>> effective. I sometimes play this binaural game called A Blind Legend. I
can
>>> walk around in the game and do lots of things in it that were very hard
for
>>> me when I was playing text  adventures.
>>>
>>> Sabra Ewing
>>>
>>>> On Apr 5, 2018, at 10:11 PM, Sabra Ewing <sabra1023 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> There is a program called math tracks that does it. You put in
equations
>>> and it makes a graph. There is also an app called voice and a computer
>>> program called seeing with sound that can translate any picture into
sound.
>>> Math tracks is a bit better for grass though because you can get
>>> information on. Some things. The problem I had in school though was that
no
>>> one else knew how to use it to create audio graphs so I was just given
>>> tactile graphs that I could not read. I was able to understand two
>>> dimensional graphs with this set up. But what that means is that I
>>> understand them exactly the shape they are so you still cannot get a
>>> three-dimensional object that is a two dimensional picture and have me
>>> listen to it and understand it. I have been able to make recordings of
>>> three-dimensional objects with binaural microphones.
>>>> Sabra Ewing
>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 5, 2018, at 1:27 PM, Donald Winiecki via BlindMath <
>>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> Sabra, what software have you used to convert two-dimensional graphs
to
>>>>> sound?
>>>>>
>>>>> _don
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 12:47 PM, Sabra Ewing via BlindMath <
>>>>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> If you are good with sound editing, I would recommend making 3-D
audio
>>>>>> recordings of the graphs. There are programs that can import two
>>>>>> dimensional pictures and convert them into sound, but maybe you could
>>>>>> convert one of these programs to work for three-dimensional items or
>>> find a
>>>>>> method to do that on your own. You cannot get a three dimensional
graph
>>>>>> that is actually two dimensional and import it into one of these
>>> programs
>>>>>> though because it will not work. For example, I cube or just be like
a
>>>>>> bunch of squares, dotted lines, and diamonds. You would need to use
>>>>>> binaural sound and actually make it be three-dimensional. How you
>>> would do
>>>>>> this, I don't know, but audio really is your best bet. You will be
>>> able to
>>>>>> understand graphs with a Percision that you will not be able to with
a
>>> 3-D
>>>>>> printer. You will be able to experience graphs as they move around
and
>>>>>> rotate and change. If you cannot get this method to work, the only
>>> other
>>>>>> thing I can suggest is to have a reader or assistant look at the
>>> graphs and
>>>>>> reproduce them with modeling clay and braille labels. Depending on
how
>>>>>> invested you are, 3-D printers are getting more affordable. I think
>>> you can
>>>>>> get one for between 500 and $1000. If I were doing this, I would want
a
>>>>>> three-dimensional model I could I feel as well as a three-dimensional
>>> audio
>>>>>> version so that I could listen and feel at the same time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sabra Ewing
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Apr 5, 2018, at 9:21 AM, Michael Link via BlindMath <
>>>>>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> That is exactly my trouble. What an interesting idea.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Michael
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Apr 5, 2018, at 4:21 AM, Robin Williams via BlindMath <
>>>>>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have a friend who has experimented in such matters, particularly
>>>>>> making shapes encountered in topology. The main problem with 3D
>>> printing
>>>>>> appears to be the expense, as one tends to need larger objects
>>> depending on
>>>>>> the level of detail. It should be possible to produce something
>>> relatively
>>>>>> cheaply for standard surfaces, though.
>>>>>>>> There are R packages available that can readily produce the files
>>>>>> needed for 3D printing.
>>>>>>>> I agree this is worthy of further investigation. Attempting to
>>>>>> understand contour plots was certainly one of the most difficult
>>> problems I
>>>>>> encountered in my undergraduate and postgraduate work.
>>>>>>>> Bests,
>>>>>>>> Robin
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: BlindMath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>> Godfrey, Jonathan via BlindMath
>>>>>>>> Sent: 05 April 2018 03:29
>>>>>>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <
>>>>>> blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Cc: Godfrey, Jonathan <A.J.Godfrey at massey.ac.nz>
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] 3 Dimensional Graphs
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'd love to see some more done on creating such graphs using a 3d
>>>>>> printer.
>>>>>>>> I haven't yet had a chance to exercise this interest to date, but
>>>>>> creating 3d printer ready image files for statistical graphs is on my
>>> to-do
>>>>>> list.
>>>>>>>> Jonathan
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: BlindMath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>> Michael Link via BlindMath
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, 5 April 2018 2:10 p.m.
>>>>>>>> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> Cc: Michael Link <michaelllink1 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> Subject: [BlindMath] 3 Dimensional Graphs
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi All!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I?m an undergraduate mathematics student who is struggling with
>>>>>> figuring out the best assistive tech to use for understanding 3
>>> Dimensional
>>>>>> graphs.  Do any of you recommend certain programs or devices for
>>> graphs in
>>>>>> three dimensions?
>>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>> Michael
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> a.j.godfrey%40massey.ac.nz
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>>>>>> blindmath-gems-home>
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>>>>>> robin.williams%40atass-sports.co.uk
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>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>> _______________________________________________
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> End of BlindMath Digest, Vol 141, Issue 5
> *****************************************

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