[BlindMath] 3 Dimensional Graphs

[Donald Winiecki]

Since Thomas Edison claimed that (his) the invention of movies would allow
replacement of teachers, there has been a headlong rush for the perfect
instructional media.  No such thing exists.

After careers in advertising, and engineering drawing, and now with twenty
some years of experience teaching in a College of Engineering I can say the
following.

What matters is that we choose media that effectively packages the
information to be learned, and that the information design is such that it
represents the way we want learners to remember and use it in a way that
the learner can unpack.  The learner's interaction with media is not an
interaction with media at all, but rather interaction with the information
that the media has packaged.

If we train learners to choose media, we are only making them consumers. If
we help learners acquire the skills to unpack what is in media we give them
skills for survival and growth.

It isn't the media that matters.  It is the person's ability to extract
useful information from the way that information is packed into the media.
We can use very dynamic media is very unhelpful ways, and we can use the
most boring media in very effective ways...

_don


On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 5:31 PM, steve.jacobson--- via BlindMath <
blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> This is an interesting and timely topic.  When I majored in math, many of
> the tools that are available today were not available, most certainly 3D
> printing.  <smile>  I can see where 3D printing might be useful to try to
> establish in a blind student's mind the results of a particular graph and
> perhaps make the concept of revolving a two-dimensional graph to create a
> solid.  There are those who think, though, that we need every
> three-dimensional drawing created with a 3D printer to truly achieve equal
> access to the information.  I'm not certain that is true.  While a
> three-dimensional drawing can capture some elements visually of what an
> object would look like, it isn't necessarily as clear as would be a model
> either.  A print three-dimensional drawing conveys more, in my opinion,
> than
> does trying to represent that same drawing with two-dimensional tactile
> drawings, though.  However, at some level, all of us, blind or sighted,
> have
> to understand
>  the idea of a two dimensional slice and how that might be rotated, for
> example,.  I wonder sometimes if we are not putting too much hope on 3D
> printing as a solution.  We are going to have to figure out its role just
> as
> we have to figure out the roles of other tools we use.  These are
> interesting times.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Steve Jacobson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Brian Kootte
> via
> BlindMath
> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2018 5:01 PM
> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
> Cc: Brian Kootte <bkootte at triumf.ca>
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] 3 Dimensional Graphs
>
> Hello Sabra,
>
> I just wanted to make a quick general comment about 3D plotting in the
> physical sciences. Often 3D plots are not particularly helpful and are
> done more for visual appeal than to convey information effectively. The
> usefulness of a 3D plot really depends on the situation.
>
> For a really complicated 3D data set it can be impossible to make a
> useful 3D plot, and if data is sufficiently simple (for example symmetry
> around an axis or something) then looking at either a 2D slice of the
> data, or a projection of it, or a series of 2D slices can be just as
> informative.
>
> At least this is my take on it.
>
> For the record, I am a sighted person who just finished a graduate
> course on data analysis. I used the Python language and a number of very
> useful libraries for working with data sets including NumPy. A cool
> thing is that Python gets used a lot in industry these days. MATLAB can
> also do most of this.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Brian
>
>
> On 2018-04-07 5:00 AM, blindmath-request at nfbnet.org wrote:
> > Send BlindMath mailing list submissions to
> >       blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >
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> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >     1. Re: 3 Dimensional Graphs (Sabra Ewing)
> >     2. Re: 3 Dimensional Graphs (Sabra Ewing)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2018 17:14:59 -0600
> > From: Sabra Ewing <sabra1023 at gmail.com>
> > To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> >       <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> > Subject: Re: [BlindMath] 3 Dimensional Graphs
> > Message-ID: <9EE6F8CA-DCF0-48A1-B15A-23128E03D021 at gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain;     charset=utf-8
> >
> > You are correct. I do prefer to listen. However, I still believe that
> Braille is very important and I'm glad that I know it. There are some
> things
> like math and science that I need to be able to read. And if I am writing
> something long, I will write using a combination of braille and speech.
> Sometimes I like to get what I have written and read it to myself out loud,
> and I cannot do that without braille. I actually want to read it to myself
> instead of having something else read it to me. I can look for grammar and
> typos a lot easier. Also, if I am doing a speech or a presentation, my
> notes
> need to be in braille. I would say that I use both for different purposes
> and a lot of times I use a mixture of speech and braille. If something is
> really hard for me to understand, I might understand it better if I read
> and
> listen at the same time. Some math equations we're very hard for me to read
> and I had to have someone repeat the equation to me as I read it at the
> same
> time. I couldn'!
> >   t read the braille, that was not the problem. These equations were just
> so complicated. It is pretty annoying that my phone does not have very good
> braille support. When I write an email on my phone as I am doing now, it
> can
> be harder. The braille screen input on my phone is also hard for me to use.
> However, if I were reading a novel or even a training manual, I would
> prefer
> to listen to it. When I am cooking, I prefer to listen to the recipe and
> follow the steps as I hear what to do. If I am socializing with someone, I
> would prefer to talk to them instead of write to them.
> >
> > Sabra Ewing
> >
> >> On Apr 6, 2018, at 3:51 AM, Brandon Keith Biggs via BlindMath
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello Sabra,
> >>
> >> I completely understand what you are talking about. I also bet that you
> >> tend not to read Braille if you don?t need to, you like to talk to
> someone
> >> about your ideas to work them out in your head, and you listen to books
> >> rather than reading them in Braille.
> >>
> >>  From my research, the best explanation is learning modalities. Fleming
> >> (2014) presents a very good summery of learning modalities:
> >>
> >>
> https://web.archive.org/web/20150314235648/http://vark-
> learn.com/introductio
> n-to-vark/the-vark-modalities/
> >>
> <https://web.archive.org/web/20150314235648/http:/vark-
> learn.com/introductio
> n-to-vark/the-vark-modalities/>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Much of our educational system is completely visual, but blind children
> are
> >> uniquely taught to effectively use 2 modalities, touch and sound, so
> they
> >> understand that they are not stupid, they learn better through
> listening,
> >> rather than reading Braille (or the other way around). One of my
> arguments
> >> supporting cross-sensory representations is that one of the biggest
> reasons
> >> for the massive drop in math scores in the U.S. is that sighted children
> >> are being born with a dominant modality other than visual. They are only
> >> taught the visual modality, so they think they are bad at math and this
> >> reflects in their test scores. One of my objectives is to make an
> argument
> >> for teaching cross-sensory literacy in school. My hypothesis is that if
> >> students are able to learn in their primary modality, they will have at
> >> least a 15% increase in their grades throughout school. My MRP aims to
> >> perform a study quantifying the differences between giving people a
> single
> >> sensory representation vs a cross-sensory representation. There is so
> much
> >> evidence that people learn better when presented with multiple
> modalities,
> >> that I am very confident that the cross-sensory representation is going
> to
> >> be much more effective.
> >>
> >>
> >> Our goal now is to figure out what representations are the most
> effective.
> >> We just submitted a paper to the International Conference of Auditory
> >> Display (ICAD) on the types of maps used in Audio Games:
> >>
> >>
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TKBv24qCeed6DeHrMrdLLByyjemLP
> 2Dw/view?usp=s
> haring
> >>
> >> We?re arguing that Audio games can inform infographic and mapping
> auditory
> >> design.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> For tactile, we also submitted an abstract to an aesthetics conference
> that
> >> points to several studies showing that 3D tactile representations are
> >> significantly more effective than 2D representations.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Our goal is to create a systematic way of creating cross-sensory
> >> representations with the eventual goal of making a platform for people
> to
> >> create a representation in one modality and have it translated into
> other
> >> modalities. Current tools that do this successful translation between
> >> modalities are Braille translation programs like DBT. We hope to create
> the
> >> same kind of tool for pictographic representations.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Brandon Keith Biggs <http://brandonkeithbiggs.com/>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 9:48 PM, Sabra Ewing via BlindMath <
> >> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I basically wanted to use my microphones for making maps, but I can't
> do
> >>> everything I want. I want to be able to pipe a three-dimensional arrow
> into
> >>> my Maps so that I don't have to narrate anything. When I turn, the aero
> >>> will just change. I also want some sort of scaling mechanism so that I
> can
> >>> listen to a map in a shorter time, but still get the entire thing.
> >>> Sometimes it works to pause the recording and then record every so
> often
> as
> >>> you get closer to an intersection for example, so it seems like you got
> to
> >>> the intersection and 30 seconds when it may have taken two or three
> >>> minutes, but I want something more uniform. Another thing for your
> sensory
> >>> research is that you need to have different categories. You need to
> have
> >>> people who were born blind and people who became blind later in life. I
> was
> >>> born with light perception, but medically, I am considered totally
> blind.
> >>> It seems like to me that only people who are born blind have this
> >>> experience of it sound turning into shape. This happened to me
> >>> automatically. And sound turn into shape for blind people in a logical
> way
> >>> or no one would be able to create software that replicates it. But from
> my
> >>> observations, people who were not born blind, even if they were cited
> for
> >>> short time, do not experience this. For example, my boyfriend was
> partially
> >>> blind for around one or two years and then he became totally blind, but
> he
> >>> does not experience this. However, even if people who are totally blind
> >>> experience this automatically, I wonder if people who have been blind
> for a
> >>> long time like my boyfriend can easily have their brain trained to this
> >>> method. I have gone through all sorts of training to learn to read
> tactile
> >>> images that has been largely ineffective. I wonder if maybe I will
> never
> be
> >>> able to read them in the same way that sighted people will not be able
> to
> >>> read audio images and maps. I also wonder how the brain of a deaf blind
> >>> person works. It has been scientifically proven that blind people
> process
> >>> sound through the visual cortex although I don't think sighted people
> >>> really know what that means, so how did the brains of death blind
> people
> >>> process spatial information? I was also reading articles about sided
> deaf
> >>> people that they process vision through the auditory cortex. I wonder
> what
> >>> that would be like. I am very sure that I processed sound through the
> >>> visual cortex although I have not really had a brain scan. I can read
> very
> >>> simple tactile images, but with the more complicated ones, it is just a
> >>> jumble of lines that do not make sense to me. I got through calculus
> barely
> >>> being able to read the graphs. I barely passed, and I did many things
> >>> algebraically. I could've gotten so much more out of it if I had been
> able
> >>> to read those graphs though. Growing up, sighted therapists told me
> that
> I
> >>> had spatial deficits I was just born with and that I would have to
> except
> >>> these limitations. Blindness has never been disabling to me. It has
> always
> >>> been an asset to me because The way I process a lot of information has
> been
> >>> right for me and consistent with the way I am meant to be based on my
> >>> identity. However, The way I process spatial information has always
> been
> >>> disabling to me. I thought for a long time that I would never be able
> to
> >>> process this information. I would never be able to travel as
> effectively
> as
> >>> other people because I could not read a map or understand where I was,
> I
> >>> would never be able to understand chemistry because of the electrons
> and
> >>> the energy levels, I would never be able to understand biology because
> the
> >>> way we evolved from a sponge into human is actually very spatial, I
> would
> >>> have limited access to math, and I would have trouble with basic things
> >>> like fitting the greatest amount of dishes into the dishwasher. My own
> >>> parents did not even understand what it meant. My mom could never
> >>> understand why always went to the kitchen trashcan the same way. She
> said I
> >>> should go there a different way depending on where I was in the kitchen
> and
> >>> I could never understand it.Now I see that even this could have been an
> >>> asset instead of a disabling condition if it had been treated
> >>> appropriately. I don't even think this condition has a name, but I
> think
> it
> >>> should be treated differently than blindness. No one has a name for it.
> I
> >>> have never been able to get official documentation for it. At first
> growing
> >>> up, I did not even know I had it. I have tried to explain it to
> professors,
> >>> but I don't know how. I know that other people's brains work
> differently
> >>> because I observed them more and more as I got older and I learned
> about
> >>> the discrepancies concerning information they could process that I
> could
> >>> not. However, I cannot explain what it is like. I cannot think of any
> >>> simulation that would explain it either. I think that if I had been
> able
> to
> >>> communicate what it was like to some professors, they would have
> figured
> >>> out what to do to help me and I could have done well in math. A lot of
> my
> >>> professors were pretty smart and they did want to help. I wish this
> >>> condition had a name and that there were mainstream alternative
> techniques
> >>> for it. Yes, you can work around it. For example, you can use algebra
> to
> >>> understand something if you can't read a graph, but alternative
> techniques
> >>> mean that you do the same thing as other people, just in an alternative
> >>> way. So what I mean is that I want to process spatial information just
> like
> >>> other people, but in an alternative way, and I know I can. I know now
> that
> >>> the spatial part of my brain is not broken like those therapists said
> it
> >>> was. If that part truly were broken, I would not be able to read a map
> or
> >>> graph no matter what form it came in. I tried to explain what it was
> like
> >>> to one professor, and she said that she understood and it is like not
> >>> knowing which way up is. That is not what it is like though. Summa side
> of
> >>> people have it too, but I believe that people born blind are getting
> this
> >>> spatial thing in disproportionate numbers. I do not believe it is
> because
> >>> they need visual information, they were overprotected, or it was
> genetic. I
> >>> believe that we develop these spatial difficulties because we do not
> >>> receive spatial information and the training to interpret it in an
> >>> accessible format. I don't know if it is too late for me now. Even if
> we
> >>> develop alternative techniques for this, I don't know if they can help
> me
> >>> now or if I would have had to start using them as a baby for them to be
> >>> effective. I sometimes play this binaural game called A Blind Legend. I
> can
> >>> walk around in the game and do lots of things in it that were very hard
> for
> >>> me when I was playing text  adventures.
> >>>
> >>> Sabra Ewing
> >>>
> >>>> On Apr 5, 2018, at 10:11 PM, Sabra Ewing <sabra1023 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> There is a program called math tracks that does it. You put in
> equations
> >>> and it makes a graph. There is also an app called voice and a computer
> >>> program called seeing with sound that can translate any picture into
> sound.
> >>> Math tracks is a bit better for grass though because you can get
> >>> information on. Some things. The problem I had in school though was
> that
> no
> >>> one else knew how to use it to create audio graphs so I was just given
> >>> tactile graphs that I could not read. I was able to understand two
> >>> dimensional graphs with this set up. But what that means is that I
> >>> understand them exactly the shape they are so you still cannot get a
> >>> three-dimensional object that is a two dimensional picture and have me
> >>> listen to it and understand it. I have been able to make recordings of
> >>> three-dimensional objects with binaural microphones.
> >>>> Sabra Ewing
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Apr 5, 2018, at 1:27 PM, Donald Winiecki via BlindMath <
> >>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>>>> Sabra, what software have you used to convert two-dimensional graphs
> to
> >>>>> sound?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _don
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 12:47 PM, Sabra Ewing via BlindMath <
> >>>>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> If you are good with sound editing, I would recommend making 3-D
> audio
> >>>>>> recordings of the graphs. There are programs that can import two
> >>>>>> dimensional pictures and convert them into sound, but maybe you
> could
> >>>>>> convert one of these programs to work for three-dimensional items or
> >>> find a
> >>>>>> method to do that on your own. You cannot get a three dimensional
> graph
> >>>>>> that is actually two dimensional and import it into one of these
> >>> programs
> >>>>>> though because it will not work. For example, I cube or just be like
> a
> >>>>>> bunch of squares, dotted lines, and diamonds. You would need to use
> >>>>>> binaural sound and actually make it be three-dimensional. How you
> >>> would do
> >>>>>> this, I don't know, but audio really is your best bet. You will be
> >>> able to
> >>>>>> understand graphs with a Percision that you will not be able to with
> a
> >>> 3-D
> >>>>>> printer. You will be able to experience graphs as they move around
> and
> >>>>>> rotate and change. If you cannot get this method to work, the only
> >>> other
> >>>>>> thing I can suggest is to have a reader or assistant look at the
> >>> graphs and
> >>>>>> reproduce them with modeling clay and braille labels. Depending on
> how
> >>>>>> invested you are, 3-D printers are getting more affordable. I think
> >>> you can
> >>>>>> get one for between 500 and $1000. If I were doing this, I would
> want
> a
> >>>>>> three-dimensional model I could I feel as well as a
> three-dimensional
> >>> audio
> >>>>>> version so that I could listen and feel at the same time.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Sabra Ewing
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Apr 5, 2018, at 9:21 AM, Michael Link via BlindMath <
> >>>>>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>> That is exactly my trouble. What an interesting idea.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Michael
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Apr 5, 2018, at 4:21 AM, Robin Williams via BlindMath <
> >>>>>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I have a friend who has experimented in such matters, particularly
> >>>>>> making shapes encountered in topology. The main problem with 3D
> >>> printing
> >>>>>> appears to be the expense, as one tends to need larger objects
> >>> depending on
> >>>>>> the level of detail. It should be possible to produce something
> >>> relatively
> >>>>>> cheaply for standard surfaces, though.
> >>>>>>>> There are R packages available that can readily produce the files
> >>>>>> needed for 3D printing.
> >>>>>>>> I agree this is worthy of further investigation. Attempting to
> >>>>>> understand contour plots was certainly one of the most difficult
> >>> problems I
> >>>>>> encountered in my undergraduate and postgraduate work.
> >>>>>>>> Bests,
> >>>>>>>> Robin
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>> From: BlindMath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of
> >>>>>> Godfrey, Jonathan via BlindMath
> >>>>>>>> Sent: 05 April 2018 03:29
> >>>>>>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <
> >>>>>> blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> >>>>>>>> Cc: Godfrey, Jonathan <A.J.Godfrey at massey.ac.nz>
> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] 3 Dimensional Graphs
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hi all,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I'd love to see some more done on creating such graphs using a 3d
> >>>>>> printer.
> >>>>>>>> I haven't yet had a chance to exercise this interest to date, but
> >>>>>> creating 3d printer ready image files for statistical graphs is on
> my
> >>> to-do
> >>>>>> list.
> >>>>>>>> Jonathan
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>> From: BlindMath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of
> >>>>>> Michael Link via BlindMath
> >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, 5 April 2018 2:10 p.m.
> >>>>>>>> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>>>> Cc: Michael Link <michaelllink1 at gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>> Subject: [BlindMath] 3 Dimensional Graphs
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hi All!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I?m an undergraduate mathematics student who is struggling with
> >>>>>> figuring out the best assistive tech to use for understanding 3
> >>> Dimensional
> >>>>>> graphs.  Do any of you recommend certain programs or devices for
> >>> graphs in
> >>>>>> three dimensions?
> >>>>>>>> Thanks!
> >>>>>>>> Michael
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2018 17:16:58 -0600
> > From: Sabra Ewing <sabra1023 at gmail.com>
> > To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> >       <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> > Subject: Re: [BlindMath] 3 Dimensional Graphs
> > Message-ID: <A606B4C7-EAE1-4B23-A7B3-35CBA09C090B at gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain;     charset=utf-8
> >
> > As for math tracks, I just used it without any documentation so I don't
> know how good the documentation is for it. If you cannot get it to play
> your
> graph, you may have written an equation that has some sort of error in it.
> Also, after you put in your equation, it will not play the graph
> automatically. You have to press a button to get it to.
> >
> > Sabra Ewing
> >
> >> On Apr 6, 2018, at 3:51 AM, Brandon Keith Biggs via BlindMath
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello Sabra,
> >>
> >> I completely understand what you are talking about. I also bet that you
> >> tend not to read Braille if you don?t need to, you like to talk to
> someone
> >> about your ideas to work them out in your head, and you listen to books
> >> rather than reading them in Braille.
> >>
> >>  From my research, the best explanation is learning modalities. Fleming
> >> (2014) presents a very good summery of learning modalities:
> >>
> >>
> https://web.archive.org/web/20150314235648/http://vark-
> learn.com/introductio
> n-to-vark/the-vark-modalities/
> >>
> <https://web.archive.org/web/20150314235648/http:/vark-
> learn.com/introductio
> n-to-vark/the-vark-modalities/>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Much of our educational system is completely visual, but blind children
> are
> >> uniquely taught to effectively use 2 modalities, touch and sound, so
> they
> >> understand that they are not stupid, they learn better through
> listening,
> >> rather than reading Braille (or the other way around). One of my
> arguments
> >> supporting cross-sensory representations is that one of the biggest
> reasons
> >> for the massive drop in math scores in the U.S. is that sighted children
> >> are being born with a dominant modality other than visual. They are only
> >> taught the visual modality, so they think they are bad at math and this
> >> reflects in their test scores. One of my objectives is to make an
> argument
> >> for teaching cross-sensory literacy in school. My hypothesis is that if
> >> students are able to learn in their primary modality, they will have at
> >> least a 15% increase in their grades throughout school. My MRP aims to
> >> perform a study quantifying the differences between giving people a
> single
> >> sensory representation vs a cross-sensory representation. There is so
> much
> >> evidence that people learn better when presented with multiple
> modalities,
> >> that I am very confident that the cross-sensory representation is going
> to
> >> be much more effective.
> >>
> >>
> >> Our goal now is to figure out what representations are the most
> effective.
> >> We just submitted a paper to the International Conference of Auditory
> >> Display (ICAD) on the types of maps used in Audio Games:
> >>
> >>
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TKBv24qCeed6DeHrMrdLLByyjemLP
> 2Dw/view?usp=s
> haring
> >>
> >> We?re arguing that Audio games can inform infographic and mapping
> auditory
> >> design.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> For tactile, we also submitted an abstract to an aesthetics conference
> that
> >> points to several studies showing that 3D tactile representations are
> >> significantly more effective than 2D representations.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Our goal is to create a systematic way of creating cross-sensory
> >> representations with the eventual goal of making a platform for people
> to
> >> create a representation in one modality and have it translated into
> other
> >> modalities. Current tools that do this successful translation between
> >> modalities are Braille translation programs like DBT. We hope to create
> the
> >> same kind of tool for pictographic representations.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Brandon Keith Biggs <http://brandonkeithbiggs.com/>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 9:48 PM, Sabra Ewing via BlindMath <
> >> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I basically wanted to use my microphones for making maps, but I can't
> do
> >>> everything I want. I want to be able to pipe a three-dimensional arrow
> into
> >>> my Maps so that I don't have to narrate anything. When I turn, the aero
> >>> will just change. I also want some sort of scaling mechanism so that I
> can
> >>> listen to a map in a shorter time, but still get the entire thing.
> >>> Sometimes it works to pause the recording and then record every so
> often
> as
> >>> you get closer to an intersection for example, so it seems like you got
> to
> >>> the intersection and 30 seconds when it may have taken two or three
> >>> minutes, but I want something more uniform. Another thing for your
> sensory
> >>> research is that you need to have different categories. You need to
> have
> >>> people who were born blind and people who became blind later in life. I
> was
> >>> born with light perception, but medically, I am considered totally
> blind.
> >>> It seems like to me that only people who are born blind have this
> >>> experience of it sound turning into shape. This happened to me
> >>> automatically. And sound turn into shape for blind people in a logical
> way
> >>> or no one would be able to create software that replicates it. But from
> my
> >>> observations, people who were not born blind, even if they were cited
> for
> >>> short time, do not experience this. For example, my boyfriend was
> partially
> >>> blind for around one or two years and then he became totally blind, but
> he
> >>> does not experience this. However, even if people who are totally blind
> >>> experience this automatically, I wonder if people who have been blind
> for a
> >>> long time like my boyfriend can easily have their brain trained to this
> >>> method. I have gone through all sorts of training to learn to read
> tactile
> >>> images that has been largely ineffective. I wonder if maybe I will
> never
> be
> >>> able to read them in the same way that sighted people will not be able
> to
> >>> read audio images and maps. I also wonder how the brain of a deaf blind
> >>> person works. It has been scientifically proven that blind people
> process
> >>> sound through the visual cortex although I don't think sighted people
> >>> really know what that means, so how did the brains of death blind
> people
> >>> process spatial information? I was also reading articles about sided
> deaf
> >>> people that they process vision through the auditory cortex. I wonder
> what
> >>> that would be like. I am very sure that I processed sound through the
> >>> visual cortex although I have not really had a brain scan. I can read
> very
> >>> simple tactile images, but with the more complicated ones, it is just a
> >>> jumble of lines that do not make sense to me. I got through calculus
> barely
> >>> being able to read the graphs. I barely passed, and I did many things
> >>> algebraically. I could've gotten so much more out of it if I had been
> able
> >>> to read those graphs though. Growing up, sighted therapists told me
> that
> I
> >>> had spatial deficits I was just born with and that I would have to
> except
> >>> these limitations. Blindness has never been disabling to me. It has
> always
> >>> been an asset to me because The way I process a lot of information has
> been
> >>> right for me and consistent with the way I am meant to be based on my
> >>> identity. However, The way I process spatial information has always
> been
> >>> disabling to me. I thought for a long time that I would never be able
> to
> >>> process this information. I would never be able to travel as
> effectively
> as
> >>> other people because I could not read a map or understand where I was,
> I
> >>> would never be able to understand chemistry because of the electrons
> and
> >>> the energy levels, I would never be able to understand biology because
> the
> >>> way we evolved from a sponge into human is actually very spatial, I
> would
> >>> have limited access to math, and I would have trouble with basic things
> >>> like fitting the greatest amount of dishes into the dishwasher. My own
> >>> parents did not even understand what it meant. My mom could never
> >>> understand why always went to the kitchen trashcan the same way. She
> said I
> >>> should go there a different way depending on where I was in the kitchen
> and
> >>> I could never understand it.Now I see that even this could have been an
> >>> asset instead of a disabling condition if it had been treated
> >>> appropriately. I don't even think this condition has a name, but I
> think
> it
> >>> should be treated differently than blindness. No one has a name for it.
> I
> >>> have never been able to get official documentation for it. At first
> growing
> >>> up, I did not even know I had it. I have tried to explain it to
> professors,
> >>> but I don't know how. I know that other people's brains work
> differently
> >>> because I observed them more and more as I got older and I learned
> about
> >>> the discrepancies concerning information they could process that I
> could
> >>> not. However, I cannot explain what it is like. I cannot think of any
> >>> simulation that would explain it either. I think that if I had been
> able
> to
> >>> communicate what it was like to some professors, they would have
> figured
> >>> out what to do to help me and I could have done well in math. A lot of
> my
> >>> professors were pretty smart and they did want to help. I wish this
> >>> condition had a name and that there were mainstream alternative
> techniques
> >>> for it. Yes, you can work around it. For example, you can use algebra
> to
> >>> understand something if you can't read a graph, but alternative
> techniques
> >>> mean that you do the same thing as other people, just in an alternative
> >>> way. So what I mean is that I want to process spatial information just
> like
> >>> other people, but in an alternative way, and I know I can. I know now
> that
> >>> the spatial part of my brain is not broken like those therapists said
> it
> >>> was. If that part truly were broken, I would not be able to read a map
> or
> >>> graph no matter what form it came in. I tried to explain what it was
> like
> >>> to one professor, and she said that she understood and it is like not
> >>> knowing which way up is. That is not what it is like though. Summa side
> of
> >>> people have it too, but I believe that people born blind are getting
> this
> >>> spatial thing in disproportionate numbers. I do not believe it is
> because
> >>> they need visual information, they were overprotected, or it was
> genetic. I
> >>> believe that we develop these spatial difficulties because we do not
> >>> receive spatial information and the training to interpret it in an
> >>> accessible format. I don't know if it is too late for me now. Even if
> we
> >>> develop alternative techniques for this, I don't know if they can help
> me
> >>> now or if I would have had to start using them as a baby for them to be
> >>> effective. I sometimes play this binaural game called A Blind Legend. I
> can
> >>> walk around in the game and do lots of things in it that were very hard
> for
> >>> me when I was playing text  adventures.
> >>>
> >>> Sabra Ewing
> >>>
> >>>> On Apr 5, 2018, at 10:11 PM, Sabra Ewing <sabra1023 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> There is a program called math tracks that does it. You put in
> equations
> >>> and it makes a graph. There is also an app called voice and a computer
> >>> program called seeing with sound that can translate any picture into
> sound.
> >>> Math tracks is a bit better for grass though because you can get
> >>> information on. Some things. The problem I had in school though was
> that
> no
> >>> one else knew how to use it to create audio graphs so I was just given
> >>> tactile graphs that I could not read. I was able to understand two
> >>> dimensional graphs with this set up. But what that means is that I
> >>> understand them exactly the shape they are so you still cannot get a
> >>> three-dimensional object that is a two dimensional picture and have me
> >>> listen to it and understand it. I have been able to make recordings of
> >>> three-dimensional objects with binaural microphones.
> >>>> Sabra Ewing
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Apr 5, 2018, at 1:27 PM, Donald Winiecki via BlindMath <
> >>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>>>> Sabra, what software have you used to convert two-dimensional graphs
> to
> >>>>> sound?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _don
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 12:47 PM, Sabra Ewing via BlindMath <
> >>>>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> If you are good with sound editing, I would recommend making 3-D
> audio
> >>>>>> recordings of the graphs. There are programs that can import two
> >>>>>> dimensional pictures and convert them into sound, but maybe you
> could
> >>>>>> convert one of these programs to work for three-dimensional items or
> >>> find a
> >>>>>> method to do that on your own. You cannot get a three dimensional
> graph
> >>>>>> that is actually two dimensional and import it into one of these
> >>> programs
> >>>>>> though because it will not work. For example, I cube or just be like
> a
> >>>>>> bunch of squares, dotted lines, and diamonds. You would need to use
> >>>>>> binaural sound and actually make it be three-dimensional. How you
> >>> would do
> >>>>>> this, I don't know, but audio really is your best bet. You will be
> >>> able to
> >>>>>> understand graphs with a Percision that you will not be able to with
> a
> >>> 3-D
> >>>>>> printer. You will be able to experience graphs as they move around
> and
> >>>>>> rotate and change. If you cannot get this method to work, the only
> >>> other
> >>>>>> thing I can suggest is to have a reader or assistant look at the
> >>> graphs and
> >>>>>> reproduce them with modeling clay and braille labels. Depending on
> how
> >>>>>> invested you are, 3-D printers are getting more affordable. I think
> >>> you can
> >>>>>> get one for between 500 and $1000. If I were doing this, I would
> want
> a
> >>>>>> three-dimensional model I could I feel as well as a
> three-dimensional
> >>> audio
> >>>>>> version so that I could listen and feel at the same time.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Sabra Ewing
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Apr 5, 2018, at 9:21 AM, Michael Link via BlindMath <
> >>>>>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>> That is exactly my trouble. What an interesting idea.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Michael
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Apr 5, 2018, at 4:21 AM, Robin Williams via BlindMath <
> >>>>>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I have a friend who has experimented in such matters, particularly
> >>>>>> making shapes encountered in topology. The main problem with 3D
> >>> printing
> >>>>>> appears to be the expense, as one tends to need larger objects
> >>> depending on
> >>>>>> the level of detail. It should be possible to produce something
> >>> relatively
> >>>>>> cheaply for standard surfaces, though.
> >>>>>>>> There are R packages available that can readily produce the files
> >>>>>> needed for 3D printing.
> >>>>>>>> I agree this is worthy of further investigation. Attempting to
> >>>>>> understand contour plots was certainly one of the most difficult
> >>> problems I
> >>>>>> encountered in my undergraduate and postgraduate work.
> >>>>>>>> Bests,
> >>>>>>>> Robin
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>> From: BlindMath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of
> >>>>>> Godfrey, Jonathan via BlindMath
> >>>>>>>> Sent: 05 April 2018 03:29
> >>>>>>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <
> >>>>>> blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> >>>>>>>> Cc: Godfrey, Jonathan <A.J.Godfrey at massey.ac.nz>
> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] 3 Dimensional Graphs
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hi all,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I'd love to see some more done on creating such graphs using a 3d
> >>>>>> printer.
> >>>>>>>> I haven't yet had a chance to exercise this interest to date, but
> >>>>>> creating 3d printer ready image files for statistical graphs is on
> my
> >>> to-do
> >>>>>> list.
> >>>>>>>> Jonathan
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>> From: BlindMath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of
> >>>>>> Michael Link via BlindMath
> >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, 5 April 2018 2:10 p.m.
> >>>>>>>> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>>>> Cc: Michael Link <michaelllink1 at gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>> Subject: [BlindMath] 3 Dimensional Graphs
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hi All!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I?m an undergraduate mathematics student who is struggling with
> >>>>>> figuring out the best assistive tech to use for understanding 3
> >>> Dimensional
> >>>>>> graphs.  Do any of you recommend certain programs or devices for
> >>> graphs in
> >>>>>> three dimensions?
> >>>>>>>> Thanks!
> >>>>>>>> Michael
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> BlindMath mailing list
> >>>>>>>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
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> >>>>>> BlindMath:
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> >>>>>> a.j.godfrey%40massey.ac.nz
> >>>>>>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> >>>>>> blindmath-gems-home>
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> >> _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Subject: Digest Footer
> >
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> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > End of BlindMath Digest, Vol 141, Issue 5
> > *****************************************
>
>
>
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