[BlindMath] Typing Math and Science Quickly and Understandably

[Doug and Molly Miron]

Hello,


The IEEE accepts paperrs written either in LaTeX or Word/MathType.  
Every Paper I've written, and my two books, was prepared in Word.


Doug Miron


On 5/3/2018 4:47 PM, Lukasz Grabowski via BlindMath wrote:
> Jonathan,
>
> Your statement about comparable efficiency is, in my humble
> opinion of a professional pure mathematicians with many years of
> experience at lecturing, research, taking notes, etc., completely
> false. While we will not settle it here directly, a strong indirect
> argument is that if they were of comparable efficiency then more
> professional mathematicians would use it for preparing lecture notes,
> articles, etc. As I'm sure you know, the amount of professional pure
> mathematicians using word is absolutely negligible (to the extent that
> people who use it are subjects of anecdotes passed around during
> conference dinners, etc.).
>
> As for specifically taking notes in pure maths lectures, I have
> absolutely never seen anyone who'd use word for this purpose, only
> either latex or markdown.
>
> (There are also of course other issues, of interoperability and so on,
> which are also important, and if one consider these, then obviously
> using word for anything at all is, for lack of a better word,
> irresponsible)
>
> Best,
> Lukasz
>
> P.S. As for usage of \ in markdown, I can't agree with you: the example
> of Brandon was a transcription, and it was mildly important to
> distinguish between newlines and paragraphs. But even in markdown
> for say taking notes, if you want to produce material which works both
> for you and for sighted users then the cleanest way to write say
> multiline equation is with explicit \
>
> On Thu, 3 May 2018 21:18:36 +0000
> "Godfrey, Jonathan via BlindMath" <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
>> I quite obviously disagree with Lucasz's statement that markdown is
>> more efficient than MS Word for note-taking.
>>
>> They can be totally equivalent in that the content of the markdown
>> document can be copy and pasted into a MS Word document and converted
>> to quite readable content as quickly inside Word.
>>
>> In fact, I can see how a good MS Word user who knows the necessary
>> keystrokes could get to the same endpoint in about the same time.
>>
>> Different solutions will work better for different people. I think
>> that outright statements are risky at best and are often leading
>> people astray.
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Lukasz
>> Grabowski via BlindMath Sent: Friday, 4 May 2018 9:00 a.m.
>> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> Cc: Lukasz Grabowski <graboluk at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Typing Math and Science Quickly and
>> Understandably
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Yes I can confirm it is fundamentally incorrect, to say the least
>> ("not even wrong", as the saying goes). In order to understand that
>> it is so, you would have to compare both methods at, say,  taking
>> notes for an advanced university-level mathematics course, in which
>> case you would realize that the efficiency of using markdown with
>> latex is orders of magnitude higher than using word with mathtype.
>>
>>
>> Best,
>> Lukasz
>>
>> 		
>>
>> On Fri, 4 May 2018 01:35:01 +0530
>> Bhavya shah via BlindMath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Brandon,
>>>
>>> In essence, this method is very similar to how I used to use LaTeX
>>> of MathType to generate Math ML content that was visually readible
>>> and screen reader firnedly with the help of NVDA and Math Player.
>>> However, my only two concerns are that using LaTeX or any other
>>> standardized Math code to type would almost invariably mean (1)
>>> slightly longer and stricter syntax that would need to be
>>> mandatorily followed, and (2) there are several reasons, some of
>>> which include lack of customization in pronunciation and excessive
>>> pausing, why I found reading Math ML with the help of Math Player
>>> and NVDA somewhat cumbersome in my past experiences. If I come to
>>> think of it, it is quite certain that at some point in time, either
>>> for typing my own Math&Science or for reading my transcribed course
>>> material, I will need to deal with Math ML using Math Player and
>>> NVDA, so in a day at most, I will be retrying Math ML and sharing
>>> some of the more significant concerns and issues I have with
>>> interacting with Math ML.
>>>
>>> Kindly let me know if my present understanding of the method you
>>> described that this is just Pandoc instead of MathType and
>>> commandline instead of Word for using LaTeX to generate Math ML
>>> content is fundamentally incorrect.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> On 5/3/18, Brandon Keith Biggs via BlindMath <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Hello,
>>>> Markdown with LaTeX is perfect for you. Here is an example that
>>>> Lukasz (from this list wrote):
>>>>
>>>> ## Parametric Forms
>>>>
>>>> *transcriber: system of two equations, each one has an extra
>>>> information after comma* \ $x = t^2 -2t$, $dx = 2t-2$ \ $y= t+1$,
>>>> minimum at $t=1$ \
>>>> *transcriber: end of the system*
>>>>
>>>> For window:
>>>> \
>>>> $t$ from $[-2,4]$, $t$ step $= 0.1$
>>>> \
>>>> $x$ from $[-1,10]$
>>>> \
>>>> $y$ from $[-1,5]$
>>>>
>>>> # something easier
>>>>
>>>> $3x + y = 10$
>>>> \
>>>> $9 * 5 = 45$
>>>> \
>>>> Fractions
>>>> \
>>>> $\frac{1}{2} + \frac{1}{2} = 1$
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This converts perfectly to MathML using pandoc:
>>>> https://pandoc.org/
>>>>
>>>> You install pandoc, open a command line where you have the math
>>>> content and type:
>>>>
>>>> pandoc my_math_file.md --mathml -s -o my_html_output_file.html
>>>>
>>>> You can give your professor the html file and they can read it in
>>>> print just fine. If you have a Braille display, the MathML shows
>>>> up just fine and it is also read by the screen reader. NVDA
>>>> requires Math player (see the user guide under reading math
>>>> content for more info). Thanks,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs <http://brandonkeithbiggs.com/>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 11:00 AM, Sean Tikkun via BlindMath <
>>>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>     
>>>>> Bhavya Shah,
>>>>>
>>>>>     I am assembling a team to generate 3D models to assist in
>>>>> learning. The team leaders are a former math teacher fluent in
>>>>> Braille (me) and a Fabrication lab director that teaches
>>>>> Biological and Chemical Sciences at the University level. If you
>>>>> have access to 3D printing I would love to know what you may
>>>>> need. Files are easy to send. If not, perhaps there is a
>>>>> fabrication lab at a university in Mumbai that would be
>>>>> interested in some collaboration? Feel free to reach out.
>>>>> stikkun at nccu.edu.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sean Tikkun
>>>>> Apple Distinguished Educator
>>>>> class of 2007
>>>>>
>>>>> On May 01, 2018, at 08:51 PM, Sabra Ewing via BlindMath <
>>>>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I typed most of my math using the first method. You might be
>>>>> able to type more quickly if you had a braille keyboard. Also
>>>>> note that you can use parentheses and brackets. The Pearce in
>>>>> equation editor can produce math in a visual format. It is free.
>>>>> The braille note touch can do this as well although it is very
>>>>> expensive. I would definitely say to use a keyboard. Do not type
>>>>> on your phone as I am doing now because it is much slower.
>>>>> Another
>>>>> thing you can do is use copy and paste. You do not have to type
>>>>> everything from scratch. You can copy previous steps to your
>>>>> clipboard, paste them, and then modify them to create your
>>>>> future steps. Like for example, you might write a chemical
>>>>> equation that is not balanced. Paste this equation underneath it
>>>>> so you have two copies of the same equation. Then, take the
>>>>> first step toward balancing that equation and make those changes
>>>>> to your second copy. Now you have your equation and underneath
>>>>> it, you have the modified version with step one completed, so
>>>>> copied the version with step one completed to your clipboard and
>>>>> paste it underneath. Now you have the original equation, and you
>>>>> have two copies of step one. Modified the second copy of step
>>>>> one based on what you plan to do in step two. Continue this
>>>>> method until you have finished the problem. With a braille
>>>>> keyboard, you should be able to type as fast as someone can
>>>>> speak and even faster. If you cannot or a braille keyboard is
>>>>> not an option, you can record what is being said with a phone or
>>>>> other recording device and you can then go back over it. Another
>>>>> thing you can do is request things in electronic format. Mini
>>>>> American professors do not know how to create accessible math
>>>>> when it is really very easy as you described. You do not have to
>>>>> know any markup languages. You can create accessible math just
>>>>> by using your computer keyboard, and in many cases, if you are a
>>>>> computer science student, your math is in the perfect format to
>>>>> just paste right over into your ide. Maybe Indian professors
>>>>> would be better at creating accessible. If not, you might be
>>>>> able to find someone who can do it. This will be especially easy
>>>>> if you can find some funding. I was not lucky in this regard
>>>>> because other than professors, I never found a dedicated person
>>>>> who knew how to produce accessible math. I finally got to a
>>>>> position where I could no longer receive accessible math because
>>>>> I moved on to a four-year university where the professors did
>>>>> not know how to produce it. It is very ironic that when I
>>>>> started out at a two year university, the professors did know
>>>>> how to produce it. I approach programmers, professors, deans,
>>>>> and department head. No one actually knew how including the
>>>>> programmers who produce accessible math every day. I finally had
>>>>> to end up listening to my math on recordings and writing
>>>>> everything down. It was very difficult. If you want to get math
>>>>> in braille, there is software that can do it called Duxberry.
>>>>> Ironically, my university actually had this software, but no one
>>>>> knew how to use it including the people who worked at disability
>>>>> services. Getting it for yourself will not be helpful. If you
>>>>> get this software, you will need someone who can modify the
>>>>> equations for you. If your professor has files that were
>>>>> generated from a markup language, you could try asking for those
>>>>> source files. Even if you do not know the markup language, math
>>>>> is written very similarly when you are programming computers, so
>>>>> you could probably pick up how to read it. Unfortunately, my
>>>>> professors used PDFs that they got from other sources or
>>>>> pictures of hand written documents so I could not do this.
>>>>> People will try to tell you that Matt cannot be produced
>>>>> excessively on the computer. This simply is not true. Every
>>>>> mathematical formula, function, and number known to humankind
>>>>> can be programmed into a computer using a text based programming
>>>>> language. Also, many of these functions and formulas can be put
>>>>> into XL. If you can put these formulas into XL, then you can
>>>>> produce them accessibly in a word document. If someone is trying
>>>>> to tell you that they can't, then just tell them to put it in a
>>>>> spreadsheet, press F2 on the cells, and read the formulas that
>>>>> way. XL is very good because you can use it to organize data,
>>>>> you can use it as a calculator, and you can use it to create
>>>>> tables and graphs. You can put these documents in your dropbox
>>>>> and you can get the pictures of the graphs. You can then import
>>>>> these pictures into the voice app on your phone and you can
>>>>> listen to them. If you are going to listen to pie charts, to
>>>>> make it easier on yourself to read, use the 3-D exploding pie
>>>>> charts. This may sound counterintuitive, but when you listen to
>>>>> them, there is a bit more separation between each piece. I don't
>>>>> know how you would get training to listen to grass. I just
>>>>> automatically was born knowing how to do it. No one ever taught
>>>>> me. I could always listen to graphs very easily and I could
>>>>> never read tactile graphics. There is also a program called math
>>>>> tracks where you can create audio graphs by entering in
>>>>> equations.However, it is really best to have both the equation
>>>>> and the data because what if you created a graph using any
>>>>> equation, and you need to make some changes to the data? Well,
>>>>> you don't have the data, so what are you going to do? You could
>>>>> probably generate the data from the equation in some cases, but
>>>>> that will take forever. I like to listen to a graph and have the
>>>>> spreadsheet in front of me at the same time. There is also a
>>>>> blind chemist named Dr. sapalo. I'm not sure how to spell his
>>>>> name. I have his card somewhere but I just have to find it. I
>>>>> really wish people would start using those barcode Cards where I
>>>>> can scan the contact information into my phone, but I only know
>>>>> one person who uses those. Anyways, You may want to get in touch
>>>>> with him. He has all of these probes. They do all different
>>>>> things. They connect to a computer and they can measure chemical
>>>>> reactions and make graphs and do all this stuff depending on
>>>>> what probe you use. For example, you could use one probe to
>>>>> graph the color changes that occur during an experiment. You
>>>>> could use another probe to track temperature changes like ice
>>>>> melting. I don't really do chemistry, but if I did, I imagine I
>>>>> would want this thing, but I can't remember what it is called.
>>>>> But he is actually a chemistry professor at a university. He is
>>>>> totally blind and he teaches classes and runs labs and does all
>>>>> sorts of things. There are plenty of blind computer scientists,
>>>>> but he struck my interest in particular because I have not heard
>>>>> of mini blind chemists. He also had some good advice for 3-D
>>>>> printing that would work in the United States, but I am not sure
>>>>> if it would work in India. If possible though, you may want to
>>>>> get some 3-D models printed. Another thing is that you want to
>>>>> stay consistent. You want to make sure that you are doing things
>>>>> in the classroom the same way you will do them during testing.
>>>>> In my chemistry class, I did not have access to a lot of 3-D
>>>>> models, but for testing purposes, they made me a 3-D model. This
>>>>> really was not fair because it was made out of a lot of cups and
>>>>> straws. I did not know what it was, and it is not fair to use
>>>>> models for testing purposes that you did not use in the
>>>>> classroom or to use a different method for testing purposes that
>>>>> you did not use in the classroom because this will skew the
>>>>> results. If you use certain accommodations in the classroom,
>>>>> insist on the same accommodations for testing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sabra Ewing
>>>>>
>>>>> On May 1, 2018, at 5:22 PM, Bhavya shah via BlindMath <
>>>>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am Bhavya Shah, a totally blind 16-year-old student from
>>>>> Mumbai, India. Having just completed my tenth grade with the
>>>>> same Mathematics and Science syllabus as my sighted peers in a
>>>>> mainstream school, I intend to take up the Science stream
>>>>> according to the Indian education system for Classes 11 and 12
>>>>> with the subject combination of Physics+Chemistry+Mathematics,
>>>>> and probably take up something along the lines of Computer
>>>>> Science for my undergraduate studies after that (although I
>>>>> shouldn’t overly worry about about finalizing that for now, I
>>>>> suppose). Additionally, I shall be enrolling into coaching for a
>>>>> very competitive pan-India engineering entrance examination over
>>>>> the next two years where I will be delving into particularly
>>>>> advanced topics in to the three afore-mentioned subjects.
>>>>>
>>>>> Till Class 10, I managed an overwhelming chunk of Math either
>>>>> orally or mentally, and from what I have been informed, have
>>>>> dealt with relatively very simple organic structures, general
>>>>> numericals and chemical equations which I have been handling
>>>>> mostly via plain text. It has become increasingly clear to me
>>>>> that this makeshift method will be extremely inefficient and
>>>>> consequently infeasible for the kind of syllabus I am
>>>>> transitioning to. Hence, I am looking for different techniques,
>>>>> tools or methods of typing Math and Science that will allow me
>>>>> to be as rapid a Math&Science typist as I am of the English
>>>>> language (at its peak, my fingers have achieved about 100 WPM)
>>>>> so that I can cope with the daily rigor this coaching demands. I
>>>>> need to be able to type mathematical and scientific content
>>>>> accurately and swiftly not necessarily such that it is visually
>>>>> readable by a sighted professor but more so for my own
>>>>> reference, understanding and purposes of review and revision.
>>>>>
>>>>> So far, I am versed only with two options – ASCII Math, where I
>>>>> would just type Math and Science using standard symbols present
>>>>> on any keyboard such as /, *, ^ and so on to denote different
>>>>> things (perhaps (x+2)/x-1)) in chiefly plain text, or type
>>>>> things in LaTeX using MathType ($\frac{x+2}{x-1}$) and employ
>>>>> Math Player and NVDA to read it. From my basic understanding of
>>>>> this and limited past experience with each of these methods, the
>>>>> former sounds much faster and more efficient to me, but I am
>>>>> open to evidence and experiences suggesting otherwise. There are
>>>>> various other Math typing tools I have heard about over the
>>>>> years such as Infty Reader and Lean Math, but have never
>>>>> adequately researched them let alone used them to any extent.
>>>>> Any information or instructional material on these and other
>>>>> potential alternatives you would recommend would be of great
>>>>> help too.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would truly appreciate any assistance on different strategies
>>>>> you may have used to math your sighted counterparts’ speed in
>>>>> terms of writing and solving mathematical and scientific
>>>>> material, questions and problem sets.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Best Regards
>>>>> Bhavya Shah
>>>>>
>>>>> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons:
>>>>> https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>>>>>
>>>>> Contacting Me
>>>>> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125 at gmail.com
>>>>> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bhavyashah125/
>>>>> Twitter: @BhavyaShah125
>>>>> Skype: bhavya.09
>>>>>
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>>>>>     
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>>>    
>>
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