[BlindMath] BlindMath Digest, Vol 142, Issue 4

[tolga karatas]

bhavia;

braille is the best alternative for you to complete maths exams etc;

for example;

I did a degree in BSC Business Information Technology; and I used
Braille to help me to complete my Logic and Problem Solving Module
which was a mathematics module;

I would agree with Sabra 100%;  that braille is the best alternative
for a blind student to grasp the concepts of maths;

if you did use Jaws Screen Reader; their is however an  SBL; FILE;
produced by Freedom Scientific; that you can use to interpret
math/science chemical equations;

if you need more info; please contact me off list; my details are as follows;

tolga.karatas2014 at gmail.com

Kind Regards;


Tolga;



On 04/05/2018, blindmath-request at nfbnet.org
<blindmath-request at nfbnet.org> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Typing Math and Science Quickly and Understandably
>       (Rosanne Hoffmann)
>    2. Re: Typing Math and Science Quickly and Understandably
>       (Bhavya shah)
>    3. Re: Typing Math and Science Quickly and Understandably
>       (Bhavya shah)
>    4. Re: Typing Math and Science Quickly and Understandably
>       (Noble,Stephen L.)
>    5. Re: Typing Math and Science Quickly and Understandably
>       (Lukasz Grabowski)
>    6. Re: Typing Math and Science Quickly and Understandably
>       (Godfrey, Jonathan)
>    7. Re: Typing Math and Science Quickly and Understandably
>       (Godfrey, Jonathan)
>    8. Re: Typing Math and Science Quickly and Understandably
>       (Lukasz Grabowski)
>    9. Re: Typing Math and Science Quickly and Understandably
>       (Brandon Keith Biggs)
>   10. Re: Typing Math and Science Quickly and Understandably
>       (Godfrey, Jonathan)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 3 May 2018 12:40:27 +0000
> From: Rosanne Hoffmann <rhoffmann at aph.org>
> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
> 	<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Typing Math and Science Quickly and
> 	Understandably
> Message-ID:
> 	<BYAPR07MB4310861C910138148E4EA6D0AE870 at BYAPR07MB4310.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
> 	
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi Bahvya,
>
> I work in the vision impairment field and am a friend and colleague of Dr.
> Cary Supalo, mentioned in previous posts. Cary is a chemist and did teach at
> the university level for several years. Now he works as a consultant at the
> ETS (Educational Testing Service) in Princeton, New Jersey in the US. His
> efforts are and have always been to level the playing field for students
> with visual impairments pursuing STEM education. You can probably contact
> him via the website in a previous post: independencescience.com
>
> Rosanne Hoffmann
>
> Rosanne Hoffmann, Ph.D.
> STEM Project Leader
> American Printing House for the Blind
> 1839 Frankfort Ave.
> Louisville, KY 40206
> 502-899-2292
> rhoffmann at aph.org
>
> The mission of the American Printing House for the Blind is to promote the
> independence of people who are blind and visually impaired by providing
> specialized materials, products, and services needed for education and
> life.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindMath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bhavya
> shah via BlindMath
> Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2018 7:04 PM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Bhavya shah <bhavya.shah125 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Typing Math and Science Quickly and Understandably
>
> Hi Sabra,
>
> Thanks a lot for your detailed response.
>
> First off, I must confess that I have no knowledge and no intent of
> procuring the same about Nemeth Braille or working with Math through Braille
> in any other form. I have always exclusively relied on my computer to fulfil
> my classroom, notetaking and examination needs and have never used Braille
> for any practical purpose so far. I don?t think it would be worthwhile to
> invest time in learning Math typing with Braille given that I have no
> headstart or inclination of any sort anyways.
>
> ?Also note that you can use parentheses and brackets.? ? Could you explicate
> this suggestion with an example? I am not too sure I properly follow you
> here.
>
> ?The Pearce in equation editor can produce math in a visual format.? ? Could
> Since a perfunctory Google search failed in yielding further information
> about the mentioned tool, could you please share any links or sites to learn
> more about Pearce? Also, just to clarify, typing Math such that it is
> visually readable is not one of my top priorities at the moment. I am keen
> more on being able to take mathematical and scientific notes rapidly, and in
> a way that I can directly understand what I have typed while referring to
> the same again at a later date.
> With my present techniques, especially LaTeX with MathType, I tend to need
> to read a fairly simple equation multiple times and even part by part before
> it registers entirely in my head.
>
> ?Do not type on your phone as I am doing now because it is much slower.? ? I
> have no intention to use a Touch Screen or software keyboard on a Smartphone
> or Tablet to for academic purposes, let alone mathematic and scientific
> notetaking. :)
>
> ?You can copy previous steps to your clipboard, paste them, and then modify
> them to create your future steps.? ? I do this currently for the very use
> case you described, that of balancing chemical equations.
> As you have recommended, I could probably broaden this practice to solving
> numerical problems too.
>
> ?Another thing you can do is request things in electronic format.? ? I will
> be in a fairly good position in this regard, for I have a great
> rehabilitation institute in my city with which I have been long affiliated
> and of which I have been an erstwhile beneficiary, who have will make this
> aspect of my education easier for me. However, I am still thinking about the
> preferred format of my Math and Science material, because due to a variety
> of reasons, I wasn?t all that comfortable with Math ML present in MS Word
> created using MathType and then read by NVDA using Math Player. With
> reference to tackling graphs, charts and diagrams, again, it is likely that
> I might get some important but excessively visual diagrams converted into
> tactile graphics, so I am in a good position there too. I have heard about
> sonification of curves through software like Math Trax and Audio Graphing
> Calculator, and thanks for your added input about 3D exploding pie charts,
> but I think I will probably start exploring these when I reach syllabus
> dealing with graphs. I am a little overwhelmed with straightening out the
> basics before I plunge into the more specific solutions to deal with
> particular chapters and concepts.
>
> For the most part, I will not be doing practicals in a big way, especially
> not as part of coaching for this engineering entrance examination, but if
> you can get the exact name of this blind chemist (I tried ?sapalo blind
> chemist? in Google to no avail), even if just for trivia and to quench my
> curiosity, it would be quite fascinating to understand how this individual
> works.
>
> Again, many thanks for your prompt but comprehensive set of suggested
> solutions.
>
> Thanks.
>
> On 5/2/18, Sabra Ewing <sabra1023 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I typed most of my math using the first method. You might be able to
>> type more quickly if you had a braille keyboard. Also note that you
>> can use parentheses and brackets. The Pearce in equation editor can
>> produce math in a visual format. It is free. The braille note touch
>> can do this as well although it is very expensive. I would definitely
>> say to use a keyboard. Do not type on your phone as I am doing now
>> because it is much slower. Another thing you can do is use copy and
>> paste. You do not have to type everything from scratch. You can copy
>> previous steps to your clipboard, paste them, and then modify them to
>> create your future steps. Like for example, you might write a chemical
>> equation that is not balanced. Paste this equation underneath it so
>> you have two copies of the same equation. Then, take the first step
>> toward balancing that equation and make those changes to your second
>> copy. Now you have your equation and underneath it, you have the
>> modified version with step one completed, so copied the version with
>> step one completed to your clipboard and paste it underneath. Now you
>> have the original equation, and you have two copies of step one.
>> Modified the second copy of step one based on what you plan to do in
>> step two. Continue this method until you have finished the problem.
>> With a braille keyboard, you should be able to type as fast as someone
>> can speak and even faster. If you cannot or a braille keyboard is not
>> an option, you can record what is being said with a phone or other
>> recording device and you can then go back over it. Another thing you
>> can do is request things in electronic format. Mini American
>> professors do not know how to create accessible math when it is really
>> very easy as you described. You do not have to know any markup
>> languages. You can create accessible math just by using your computer
>> keyboard, and in many cases, if you are a computer science student,
>> your math is in the perfect format to just paste right over into your
>> ide. Maybe Indian professors would be better at creating accessible.
>> If not, you might be able to find someone who can do it. This will be
>> especially easy if you can find some funding. I was not lucky in this
>> regard because other than professors, I never found a dedicated person
>> who knew how to produce accessible math. I finally got to a position
>> where I could no longer receive accessible math because I moved on to
>> a four-year university where the professors did not know how to
>> produce it. It is very ironic that when I started out at a two year
>> university, the professors did know how to produce it. I approach
>> programmers, professors, deans, and department head. No one actually
>> knew how including the programmers who produce accessible math every
>> day. I finally had to end up listening to my math on recordings and
>> writing everything down. It was very difficult. If you want to get
>> math in braille, there is software that can do it called Duxberry.
>> Ironically, my university actually had this software, but no one knew
>> how to use it including the people who worked at disability services.
>> Getting it for yourself will not be helpful. If you get this software,
>> you will need someone who can modify the equations for you. If your
>> professor has files that were generated from a markup language, you
>> could try asking for those source files. Even if you do not know the
>> markup language, math is written very similarly when you are
>> programming computers, so you could probably pick up how to read it.
>> Unfortunately, my professors used PDFs that they got from other
>> sources or pictures of hand written documents so I could not do this.
>> People will try to tell you that Matt cannot be produced excessively
>> on the computer. This simply is not true. Every mathematical formula,
>> function, and number known to humankind can be programmed into a
>> computer using a text based programming language. Also, many of these
>> functions and formulas can be put into XL. If you can put these
>> formulas into XL, then you can produce them accessibly in a word
>> document. If someone is trying to tell you that they can't, then just
>> tell them to put it in a spreadsheet, press
>> F2 on the cells, and read the formulas that way. XL is very good
>> because you can use it to organize data, you can use it as a
>> calculator, and you can use it to create tables and graphs. You can
>> put these documents in your dropbox and you can get the pictures of
>> the graphs. You can then import these pictures into the voice app on
>> your phone and you can listen to them. If you are going to listen to
>> pie charts, to make it easier on yourself to read, use the 3-D
>> exploding pie charts. This may sound counterintuitive, but when you
>> listen to them, there is a bit more separation between each piece. I
>> don't know how you would get training to listen to grass. I just
>> automatically was born knowing how to do it. No one ever taught me. I
>> could always listen to graphs very easily and I could never read tactile
>> graphics.
>> There is also a program called math tracks where you can create audio
>> graphs by entering in equations.However, it is really best to have
>> both the equation and the data because what if you created a graph
>> using any equation, and you need to make some changes to the data?
>> Well, you don't have the data, so what are you going to do? You could
>> probably generate the data from the equation in some cases, but that
>> will take forever. I like to listen to a graph and have the spreadsheet in
>> front of me at the same time.
>> There is also a blind chemist named Dr. sapalo. I'm not sure how to
>> spell his name. I have his card somewhere but I just have to find it.
>> I really wish people would start using those barcode Cards where I can
>> scan the contact information into my phone, but I only know one person
>> who uses those. Anyways, You may want to get in touch with him. He has
>> all of these probes. They do all different things. They connect to a
>> computer and they can measure chemical reactions and make graphs and
>> do all this stuff depending on what probe you use. For example, you
>> could use one probe to graph the color changes that occur during an
>> experiment. You could use another probe to track temperature changes
>> like ice melting. I don't really do chemistry, but if I did, I imagine
>> I would want this thing, but I can't remember what it is called. But
>> he is actually a chemistry professor at a university. He is totally
>> blind and he teaches classes and runs labs and does all sorts of
>> things. There are plenty of blind computer scientists, but he struck
>> my interest in particular because I have not heard of mini blind
>> chemists. He also had some good advice for 3-D printing that would
>> work in the United States, but I am not sure if it would work in
>> India. If possible though, you may want to get some 3-D models
>> printed. Another thing is that you want to stay consistent. You want
>> to make sure that you are doing things in the classroom the same way
>> you will do them during testing. In my chemistry class, I did not have
>> access to a lot of 3-D models, but for testing purposes, they made me
>> a 3-D model. This really was not fair because it was made out of a lot
>> of cups and straws. I did not know what it was, and it is not fair to
>> use models for testing purposes that you did not use in the classroom
>> or to use a different method for testing purposes that you did not use
>> in the classroom because this will skew the results. If you use certain
>> accommodations in the classroom, insist on the same accommodations for
>> testing.
>>
>> Sabra Ewing
>>
>>> On May 1, 2018, at 5:22 PM, Bhavya shah via BlindMath
>>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>> I am Bhavya Shah, a totally blind 16-year-old student from Mumbai,
>>> India. Having just completed my tenth grade with the same Mathematics
>>> and Science syllabus as my sighted peers in a mainstream school, I
>>> intend to take up the Science stream according to the Indian
>>> education system for Classes 11 and 12 with the subject combination
>>> of
>>> Physics+Chemistry+Mathematics, and probably take up something along
>>> the lines of Computer Science for my undergraduate studies after that
>>> (although I shouldn?t overly worry about about finalizing that for
>>> now, I suppose). Additionally, I shall be enrolling into coaching for
>>> a very competitive pan-India engineering entrance examination over
>>> the next two years where I will be delving into particularly advanced
>>> topics in to the three afore-mentioned subjects.
>>>
>>> Till Class 10, I managed an overwhelming chunk of Math either orally
>>> or mentally, and from what I have been informed, have dealt with
>>> relatively very simple organic structures, general numericals and
>>> chemical equations which I have been handling mostly via plain text.
>>> It has become increasingly clear to me that this makeshift method
>>> will be extremely inefficient and consequently infeasible for the
>>> kind of syllabus I am transitioning to. Hence, I am looking for
>>> different techniques, tools or methods of typing Math and Science
>>> that will allow me to be as rapid a Math&Science typist as I am of
>>> the English language (at its peak, my fingers have achieved about 100
>>> WPM) so that I can cope with the daily rigor this coaching demands. I
>>> need to be able to type mathematical and scientific content
>>> accurately and swiftly not necessarily such that it is visually
>>> readable by a sighted professor but more so for my own reference,
>>> understanding and purposes of review and revision.
>>>
>>> So far, I am versed only with two options ? ASCII Math, where I would
>>> just type Math and Science using standard symbols present on any
>>> keyboard such as /, *, ^ and so on to denote different things
>>> (perhaps
>>> (x+2)/x-1)) in chiefly plain text, or type things in LaTeX using
>>> MathType ($\frac{x+2}{x-1}$) and employ Math Player and NVDA to read
>>> it. From my basic understanding of this and limited past experience
>>> with each of these methods, the former sounds much faster and more
>>> efficient to me, but I am open to evidence and experiences suggesting
>>> otherwise. There are various other Math typing tools I have heard
>>> about over the years such as Infty Reader and Lean Math, but have
>>> never adequately researched them let alone used them to any extent.
>>> Any information or instructional material on these and other
>>> potential alternatives you would recommend would be of great help too.
>>>
>>> I would truly appreciate any assistance on different strategies you
>>> may have used to math your sighted counterparts? speed in terms of
>>> writing and solving mathematical and scientific material, questions
>>> and problem sets.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Best Regards
>>> Bhavya Shah
>>>
>>> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons:
>>> https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>>>
>>> Contacting Me
>>> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125 at gmail.com
>>> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bhavyashah125/
>>> Twitter: @BhavyaShah125
>>> Skype: bhavya.09
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> ail.com
>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>
>
>
> --
> Best Regards
> Bhavya Shah
>
> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>
> Contacting Me
> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125 at gmail.com
> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bhavyashah125/
> Twitter: @BhavyaShah125
> Skype: bhavya.09
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 4 May 2018 01:35:01 +0530
> From: Bhavya shah <bhavya.shah125 at gmail.com>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> 	<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Typing Math and Science Quickly and
> 	Understandably
> Message-ID:
> 	<CACHadJ1s48Yso81KBLqoNEYZmb_ixzyVZSfDMTbJndv=qmhGkQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Hi Brandon,
>
> In essence, this method is very similar to how I used to use LaTeX of
> MathType to generate Math ML content that was visually readible and
> screen reader firnedly with the help of NVDA and Math Player. However,
> my only two concerns are that using LaTeX or any other standardized
> Math code to type would almost invariably mean (1) slightly longer and
> stricter syntax that would need to be mandatorily followed, and (2)
> there are several reasons, some of which include lack of customization
> in pronunciation and excessive pausing, why I found reading Math ML
> with the help of Math Player and NVDA somewhat cumbersome in my past
> experiences. If I come to think of it, it is quite certain that at
> some point in time, either for typing my own Math&Science or for
> reading my transcribed course material, I will need to deal with Math
> ML using Math Player and NVDA, so in a day at most, I will be retrying
> Math ML and sharing some of the more significant concerns and issues I
> have with interacting with Math ML.
>
> Kindly let me know if my present understanding of the method you
> described that this is just Pandoc instead of MathType and commandline
> instead of Word for using LaTeX to generate Math ML content is
> fundamentally incorrect.
>
> Thanks.
>
> On 5/3/18, Brandon Keith Biggs via BlindMath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Hello,
>> Markdown with LaTeX is perfect for you. Here is an example that Lukasz
>> (from this list wrote):
>>
>> ## Parametric Forms
>>
>> *transcriber: system of two equations, each one has an extra information
>> after comma*
>> \
>> $x = t^2 -2t$, $dx = 2t-2$
>> \
>> $y= t+1$, minimum at $t=1$
>> \
>> *transcriber: end of the system*
>>
>> For window:
>> \
>> $t$ from $[-2,4]$, $t$ step $= 0.1$
>> \
>> $x$ from $[-1,10]$
>> \
>> $y$ from $[-1,5]$
>>
>> # something easier
>>
>> $3x + y = 10$
>> \
>> $9 * 5 = 45$
>> \
>> Fractions
>> \
>> $\frac{1}{2} + \frac{1}{2} = 1$
>>
>>
>> This converts perfectly to MathML using pandoc:
>> https://pandoc.org/
>>
>> You install pandoc, open a command line where you have the math content
>> and
>> type:
>>
>> pandoc my_math_file.md --mathml -s -o my_html_output_file.html
>>
>> You can give your professor the html file and they can read it in print
>> just fine. If you have a Braille display, the MathML shows up just fine
>> and
>> it is also read by the screen reader. NVDA requires Math player (see the
>> user guide under reading math content for more info).
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>> Brandon Keith Biggs <http://brandonkeithbiggs.com/>
>>
>> On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 11:00 AM, Sean Tikkun via BlindMath <
>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Bhavya Shah,
>>>
>>>    I am assembling a team to generate 3D models to assist in learning.
>>> The
>>> team leaders are a former math teacher fluent in Braille (me) and a
>>> Fabrication lab director that teaches Biological and Chemical Sciences
>>> at
>>> the University level. If you have access to 3D printing I would love to
>>> know what you may need. Files are easy to send. If not, perhaps there is
>>> a
>>> fabrication lab at a university in Mumbai that would be interested in
>>> some
>>> collaboration?
>>>    Feel free to reach out. stikkun at nccu.edu.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sean Tikkun
>>> Apple Distinguished Educator
>>> class of 2007
>>>
>>> On May 01, 2018, at 08:51 PM, Sabra Ewing via BlindMath <
>>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> I typed most of my math using the first method. You might be able to
>>> type
>>> more quickly if you had a braille keyboard. Also note that you can use
>>> parentheses and brackets. The Pearce in equation editor can produce math
>>> in
>>> a visual format. It is free. The braille note touch can do this as well
>>> although it is very expensive. I would definitely say to use a keyboard.
>>> Do
>>> not type on your phone as I am doing now because it is much slower.
>>> Another
>>> thing you can do is use copy and paste. You do not have to type
>>> everything
>>> from scratch. You can copy previous steps to your clipboard, paste them,
>>> and then modify them to create your future steps. Like for example, you
>>> might write a chemical equation that is not balanced. Paste this
>>> equation
>>> underneath it so you have two copies of the same equation. Then, take
>>> the
>>> first step toward balancing that equation and make those changes to your
>>> second copy. Now you have your equation and underneath it, you have the
>>> modified version with step one completed, so copied the version with
>>> step
>>> one completed to your clipboard and paste it underneath. Now you have
>>> the
>>> original equation, and you have two copies of step one. Modified the
>>> second
>>> copy of step one based on what you plan to do in step two. Continue this
>>> method until you have finished the problem. With a braille keyboard, you
>>> should be able to type as fast as someone can speak and even faster. If
>>> you
>>> cannot or a braille keyboard is not an option, you can record what is
>>> being
>>> said with a phone or other recording device and you can then go back
>>> over
>>> it. Another thing you can do is request things in electronic format.
>>> Mini
>>> American professors do not know how to create accessible math when it is
>>> really very easy as you described. You do not have to know any markup
>>> languages. You can create accessible math just by using your computer
>>> keyboard, and in many cases, if you are a computer science student, your
>>> math is in the perfect format to just paste right over into your ide.
>>> Maybe
>>> Indian professors would be better at creating accessible. If not, you
>>> might
>>> be able to find someone who can do it. This will be especially easy if
>>> you
>>> can find some funding. I was not lucky in this regard because other than
>>> professors, I never found a dedicated person who knew how to produce
>>> accessible math. I finally got to a position where I could no longer
>>> receive accessible math because I moved on to a four-year university
>>> where
>>> the professors did not know how to produce it. It is very ironic that
>>> when
>>> I started out at a two year university, the professors did know how to
>>> produce it. I approach programmers, professors, deans, and department
>>> head.
>>> No one actually knew how including the programmers who produce
>>> accessible
>>> math every day. I finally had to end up listening to my math on
>>> recordings
>>> and writing everything down. It was very difficult. If you want to get
>>> math
>>> in braille, there is software that can do it called Duxberry.
>>> Ironically,
>>> my university actually had this software, but no one knew how to use it
>>> including the people who worked at disability services. Getting it for
>>> yourself will not be helpful. If you get this software, you will need
>>> someone who can modify the equations for you. If your professor has
>>> files
>>> that were generated from a markup language, you could try asking for
>>> those
>>> source files. Even if you do not know the markup language, math is
>>> written
>>> very similarly when you are programming computers, so you could probably
>>> pick up how to read it. Unfortunately, my professors used PDFs that they
>>> got from other sources or pictures of hand written documents so I could
>>> not
>>> do this. People will try to tell you that Matt cannot be produced
>>> excessively on the computer. This simply is not true. Every mathematical
>>> formula, function, and number known to humankind can be programmed into
>>> a
>>> computer using a text based programming language. Also, many of these
>>> functions and formulas can be put into XL. If you can put these formulas
>>> into XL, then you can produce them accessibly in a word document. If
>>> someone is trying to tell you that they can't, then just tell them to
>>> put
>>> it in a spreadsheet, press F2 on the cells, and read the formulas that
>>> way.
>>> XL is very good because you can use it to organize data, you can use it
>>> as
>>> a calculator, and you can use it to create tables and graphs. You can
>>> put
>>> these documents in your dropbox and you can get the pictures of the
>>> graphs.
>>> You can then import these pictures into the voice app on your phone and
>>> you
>>> can listen to them. If you are going to listen to pie charts, to make it
>>> easier on yourself to read, use the 3-D exploding pie charts. This may
>>> sound counterintuitive, but when you listen to them, there is a bit more
>>> separation between each piece. I don't know how you would get training
>>> to
>>> listen to grass. I just automatically was born knowing how to do it. No
>>> one
>>> ever taught me. I could always listen to graphs very easily and I could
>>> never read tactile graphics. There is also a program called math tracks
>>> where you can create audio graphs by entering in equations.However, it
>>> is
>>> really best to have both the equation and the data because what if you
>>> created a graph using any equation, and you need to make some changes to
>>> the data? Well, you don't have the data, so what are you going to do?
>>> You
>>> could probably generate the data from the equation in some cases, but
>>> that
>>> will take forever. I like to listen to a graph and have the spreadsheet
>>> in
>>> front of me at the same time. There is also a blind chemist named Dr.
>>> sapalo. I'm not sure how to spell his name. I have his card somewhere
>>> but
>>> I
>>> just have to find it. I really wish people would start using those
>>> barcode
>>> Cards where I can scan the contact information into my phone, but I only
>>> know one person who uses those. Anyways, You may want to get in touch
>>> with
>>> him. He has all of these probes. They do all different things. They
>>> connect
>>> to a computer and they can measure chemical reactions and make graphs
>>> and
>>> do all this stuff depending on what probe you use. For example, you
>>> could
>>> use one probe to graph the color changes that occur during an
>>> experiment.
>>> You could use another probe to track temperature changes like ice
>>> melting.
>>> I don't really do chemistry, but if I did, I imagine I would want this
>>> thing, but I can't remember what it is called. But he is actually a
>>> chemistry professor at a university. He is totally blind and he teaches
>>> classes and runs labs and does all sorts of things. There are plenty of
>>> blind computer scientists, but he struck my interest in particular
>>> because
>>> I have not heard of mini blind chemists. He also had some good advice
>>> for
>>> 3-D printing that would work in the United States, but I am not sure if
>>> it
>>> would work in India. If possible though, you may want to get some 3-D
>>> models printed. Another thing is that you want to stay consistent. You
>>> want
>>> to make sure that you are doing things in the classroom the same way you
>>> will do them during testing. In my chemistry class, I did not have
>>> access
>>> to a lot of 3-D models, but for testing purposes, they made me a 3-D
>>> model.
>>> This really was not fair because it was made out of a lot of cups and
>>> straws. I did not know what it was, and it is not fair to use models for
>>> testing purposes that you did not use in the classroom or to use a
>>> different method for testing purposes that you did not use in the
>>> classroom
>>> because this will skew the results. If you use certain accommodations in
>>> the classroom, insist on the same accommodations for testing.
>>>
>>> Sabra Ewing
>>>
>>> On May 1, 2018, at 5:22 PM, Bhavya shah via BlindMath <
>>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>> I am Bhavya Shah, a totally blind 16-year-old student from Mumbai,
>>> India. Having just completed my tenth grade with the same Mathematics
>>> and Science syllabus as my sighted peers in a mainstream school, I
>>> intend to take up the Science stream according to the Indian education
>>> system for Classes 11 and 12 with the subject combination of
>>> Physics+Chemistry+Mathematics, and probably take up something along
>>> the lines of Computer Science for my undergraduate studies after that
>>> (although I shouldn?t overly worry about about finalizing that for
>>> now, I suppose). Additionally, I shall be enrolling into coaching for
>>> a very competitive pan-India engineering entrance examination over the
>>> next two years where I will be delving into particularly advanced
>>> topics in to the three afore-mentioned subjects.
>>>
>>> Till Class 10, I managed an overwhelming chunk of Math either orally
>>> or mentally, and from what I have been informed, have dealt with
>>> relatively very simple organic structures, general numericals and
>>> chemical equations which I have been handling mostly via plain text.
>>> It has become increasingly clear to me that this makeshift method will
>>> be extremely inefficient and consequently infeasible for the kind of
>>> syllabus I am transitioning to. Hence, I am looking for different
>>> techniques, tools or methods of typing Math and Science that will
>>> allow me to be as rapid a Math&Science typist as I am of the English
>>> language (at its peak, my fingers have achieved about 100 WPM) so that
>>> I can cope with the daily rigor this coaching demands. I need to be
>>> able to type mathematical and scientific content accurately and
>>> swiftly not necessarily such that it is visually readable by a sighted
>>> professor but more so for my own reference, understanding and purposes
>>> of review and revision.
>>>
>>> So far, I am versed only with two options ? ASCII Math, where I would
>>> just type Math and Science using standard symbols present on any
>>> keyboard such as /, *, ^ and so on to denote different things (perhaps
>>> (x+2)/x-1)) in chiefly plain text, or type things in LaTeX using
>>> MathType ($\frac{x+2}{x-1}$) and employ Math Player and NVDA to read
>>> it. From my basic understanding of this and limited past experience
>>> with each of these methods, the former sounds much faster and more
>>> efficient to me, but I am open to evidence and experiences suggesting
>>> otherwise. There are various other Math typing tools I have heard
>>> about over the years such as Infty Reader and Lean Math, but have
>>> never adequately researched them let alone used them to any extent.
>>> Any information or instructional material on these and other potential
>>> alternatives you would recommend would be of great help too.
>>>
>>> I would truly appreciate any assistance on different strategies you
>>> may have used to math your sighted counterparts? speed in terms of
>>> writing and solving mathematical and scientific material, questions
>>> and problem sets.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Best Regards
>>> Bhavya Shah
>>>
>>> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>>>
>>> Contacting Me
>>> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125 at gmail.com
>>> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bhavyashah125/
>>> Twitter: @BhavyaShah125
>>> Skype: bhavya.09
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindMath mailing list
>>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> BlindMath:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sabra
>>> 1023%40gmail.com
>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/b
>>> lindmath-gems-home>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindMath mailing list
>>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> BlindMath:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/jaquis%40mac.com
>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/b
>>> lindmath-gems-home>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindMath mailing list
>>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> BlindMath:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/brand
>>> onkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/b
>>> lindmath-gems-home>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindMath mailing list
>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindMath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/bhavya.shah125%40gmail.com
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>
>
>
> --
> Best Regards
> Bhavya Shah
>
> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>
> Contacting Me
> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125 at gmail.com
> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bhavyashah125/
> Twitter: @BhavyaShah125
> Skype: bhavya.09
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 4 May 2018 01:39:19 +0530
> From: Bhavya shah <bhavya.shah125 at gmail.com>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> 	<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Typing Math and Science Quickly and
> 	Understandably
> Message-ID:
> 	<CACHadJ3C9tjbXpu5CbJ0jguBkub=-NoOB-x3tRXkwX2x6eMsTg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Hi Louis and Rosanne,
>
> Thanks for sharing the contact details of Dr. Cary Supalo as well as
> about his organisation. I have briefly went through his website, and
> will surely reach out to him in the future if the need arises. I will
> also shortly be reading the summary of the STEM seminar of the 2017
> NFB Convvention which you shared, Louis. Many thanks once again for
> sharing all these resources.
>
> Thanks.
>
> On 5/4/18, Bhavya shah <bhavya.shah125 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Brandon,
>>
>> In essence, this method is very similar to how I used to use LaTeX of
>> MathType to generate Math ML content that was visually readible and
>> screen reader firnedly with the help of NVDA and Math Player. However,
>> my only two concerns are that using LaTeX or any other standardized
>> Math code to type would almost invariably mean (1) slightly longer and
>> stricter syntax that would need to be mandatorily followed, and (2)
>> there are several reasons, some of which include lack of customization
>> in pronunciation and excessive pausing, why I found reading Math ML
>> with the help of Math Player and NVDA somewhat cumbersome in my past
>> experiences. If I come to think of it, it is quite certain that at
>> some point in time, either for typing my own Math&Science or for
>> reading my transcribed course material, I will need to deal with Math
>> ML using Math Player and NVDA, so in a day at most, I will be retrying
>> Math ML and sharing some of the more significant concerns and issues I
>> have with interacting with Math ML.
>>
>> Kindly let me know if my present understanding of the method you
>> described that this is just Pandoc instead of MathType and commandline
>> instead of Word for using LaTeX to generate Math ML content is
>> fundamentally incorrect.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> On 5/3/18, Brandon Keith Biggs via BlindMath <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>> Markdown with LaTeX is perfect for you. Here is an example that Lukasz
>>> (from this list wrote):
>>>
>>> ## Parametric Forms
>>>
>>> *transcriber: system of two equations, each one has an extra information
>>> after comma*
>>> \
>>> $x = t^2 -2t$, $dx = 2t-2$
>>> \
>>> $y= t+1$, minimum at $t=1$
>>> \
>>> *transcriber: end of the system*
>>>
>>> For window:
>>> \
>>> $t$ from $[-2,4]$, $t$ step $= 0.1$
>>> \
>>> $x$ from $[-1,10]$
>>> \
>>> $y$ from $[-1,5]$
>>>
>>> # something easier
>>>
>>> $3x + y = 10$
>>> \
>>> $9 * 5 = 45$
>>> \
>>> Fractions
>>> \
>>> $\frac{1}{2} + \frac{1}{2} = 1$
>>>
>>>
>>> This converts perfectly to MathML using pandoc:
>>> https://pandoc.org/
>>>
>>> You install pandoc, open a command line where you have the math content
>>> and
>>> type:
>>>
>>> pandoc my_math_file.md --mathml -s -o my_html_output_file.html
>>>
>>> You can give your professor the html file and they can read it in print
>>> just fine. If you have a Braille display, the MathML shows up just fine
>>> and
>>> it is also read by the screen reader. NVDA requires Math player (see the
>>> user guide under reading math content for more info).
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>>
>>> Brandon Keith Biggs <http://brandonkeithbiggs.com/>
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 11:00 AM, Sean Tikkun via BlindMath <
>>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bhavya Shah,
>>>>
>>>>    I am assembling a team to generate 3D models to assist in learning.
>>>> The
>>>> team leaders are a former math teacher fluent in Braille (me) and a
>>>> Fabrication lab director that teaches Biological and Chemical Sciences
>>>> at
>>>> the University level. If you have access to 3D printing I would love to
>>>> know what you may need. Files are easy to send. If not, perhaps there
>>>> is
>>>> a
>>>> fabrication lab at a university in Mumbai that would be interested in
>>>> some
>>>> collaboration?
>>>>    Feel free to reach out. stikkun at nccu.edu.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sean Tikkun
>>>> Apple Distinguished Educator
>>>> class of 2007
>>>>
>>>> On May 01, 2018, at 08:51 PM, Sabra Ewing via BlindMath <
>>>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I typed most of my math using the first method. You might be able to
>>>> type
>>>> more quickly if you had a braille keyboard. Also note that you can use
>>>> parentheses and brackets. The Pearce in equation editor can produce
>>>> math
>>>> in
>>>> a visual format. It is free. The braille note touch can do this as well
>>>> although it is very expensive. I would definitely say to use a
>>>> keyboard.
>>>> Do
>>>> not type on your phone as I am doing now because it is much slower.
>>>> Another
>>>> thing you can do is use copy and paste. You do not have to type
>>>> everything
>>>> from scratch. You can copy previous steps to your clipboard, paste
>>>> them,
>>>> and then modify them to create your future steps. Like for example, you
>>>> might write a chemical equation that is not balanced. Paste this
>>>> equation
>>>> underneath it so you have two copies of the same equation. Then, take
>>>> the
>>>> first step toward balancing that equation and make those changes to
>>>> your
>>>> second copy. Now you have your equation and underneath it, you have the
>>>> modified version with step one completed, so copied the version with
>>>> step
>>>> one completed to your clipboard and paste it underneath. Now you have
>>>> the
>>>> original equation, and you have two copies of step one. Modified the
>>>> second
>>>> copy of step one based on what you plan to do in step two. Continue
>>>> this
>>>> method until you have finished the problem. With a braille keyboard,
>>>> you
>>>> should be able to type as fast as someone can speak and even faster. If
>>>> you
>>>> cannot or a braille keyboard is not an option, you can record what is
>>>> being
>>>> said with a phone or other recording device and you can then go back
>>>> over
>>>> it. Another thing you can do is request things in electronic format.
>>>> Mini
>>>> American professors do not know how to create accessible math when it
>>>> is
>>>> really very easy as you described. You do not have to know any markup
>>>> languages. You can create accessible math just by using your computer
>>>> keyboard, and in many cases, if you are a computer science student,
>>>> your
>>>> math is in the perfect format to just paste right over into your ide.
>>>> Maybe
>>>> Indian professors would be better at creating accessible. If not, you
>>>> might
>>>> be able to find someone who can do it. This will be especially easy if
>>>> you
>>>> can find some funding. I was not lucky in this regard because other
>>>> than
>>>> professors, I never found a dedicated person who knew how to produce
>>>> accessible math. I finally got to a position where I could no longer
>>>> receive accessible math because I moved on to a four-year university
>>>> where
>>>> the professors did not know how to produce it. It is very ironic that
>>>> when
>>>> I started out at a two year university, the professors did know how to
>>>> produce it. I approach programmers, professors, deans, and department
>>>> head.
>>>> No one actually knew how including the programmers who produce
>>>> accessible
>>>> math every day. I finally had to end up listening to my math on
>>>> recordings
>>>> and writing everything down. It was very difficult. If you want to get
>>>> math
>>>> in braille, there is software that can do it called Duxberry.
>>>> Ironically,
>>>> my university actually had this software, but no one knew how to use it
>>>> including the people who worked at disability services. Getting it for
>>>> yourself will not be helpful. If you get this software, you will need
>>>> someone who can modify the equations for you. If your professor has
>>>> files
>>>> that were generated from a markup language, you could try asking for
>>>> those
>>>> source files. Even if you do not know the markup language, math is
>>>> written
>>>> very similarly when you are programming computers, so you could
>>>> probably
>>>> pick up how to read it. Unfortunately, my professors used PDFs that
>>>> they
>>>> got from other sources or pictures of hand written documents so I could
>>>> not
>>>> do this. People will try to tell you that Matt cannot be produced
>>>> excessively on the computer. This simply is not true. Every
>>>> mathematical
>>>> formula, function, and number known to humankind can be programmed into
>>>> a
>>>> computer using a text based programming language. Also, many of these
>>>> functions and formulas can be put into XL. If you can put these
>>>> formulas
>>>> into XL, then you can produce them accessibly in a word document. If
>>>> someone is trying to tell you that they can't, then just tell them to
>>>> put
>>>> it in a spreadsheet, press F2 on the cells, and read the formulas that
>>>> way.
>>>> XL is very good because you can use it to organize data, you can use it
>>>> as
>>>> a calculator, and you can use it to create tables and graphs. You can
>>>> put
>>>> these documents in your dropbox and you can get the pictures of the
>>>> graphs.
>>>> You can then import these pictures into the voice app on your phone and
>>>> you
>>>> can listen to them. If you are going to listen to pie charts, to make
>>>> it
>>>> easier on yourself to read, use the 3-D exploding pie charts. This may
>>>> sound counterintuitive, but when you listen to them, there is a bit
>>>> more
>>>> separation between each piece. I don't know how you would get training
>>>> to
>>>> listen to grass. I just automatically was born knowing how to do it. No
>>>> one
>>>> ever taught me. I could always listen to graphs very easily and I could
>>>> never read tactile graphics. There is also a program called math tracks
>>>> where you can create audio graphs by entering in equations.However, it
>>>> is
>>>> really best to have both the equation and the data because what if you
>>>> created a graph using any equation, and you need to make some changes
>>>> to
>>>> the data? Well, you don't have the data, so what are you going to do?
>>>> You
>>>> could probably generate the data from the equation in some cases, but
>>>> that
>>>> will take forever. I like to listen to a graph and have the spreadsheet
>>>> in
>>>> front of me at the same time. There is also a blind chemist named Dr.
>>>> sapalo. I'm not sure how to spell his name. I have his card somewhere
>>>> but
>>>> I
>>>> just have to find it. I really wish people would start using those
>>>> barcode
>>>> Cards where I can scan the contact information into my phone, but I
>>>> only
>>>> know one person who uses those. Anyways, You may want to get in touch
>>>> with
>>>> him. He has all of these probes. They do all different things. They
>>>> connect
>>>> to a computer and they can measure chemical reactions and make graphs
>>>> and
>>>> do all this stuff depending on what probe you use. For example, you
>>>> could
>>>> use one probe to graph the color changes that occur during an
>>>> experiment.
>>>> You could use another probe to track temperature changes like ice
>>>> melting.
>>>> I don't really do chemistry, but if I did, I imagine I would want this
>>>> thing, but I can't remember what it is called. But he is actually a
>>>> chemistry professor at a university. He is totally blind and he teaches
>>>> classes and runs labs and does all sorts of things. There are plenty of
>>>> blind computer scientists, but he struck my interest in particular
>>>> because
>>>> I have not heard of mini blind chemists. He also had some good advice
>>>> for
>>>> 3-D printing that would work in the United States, but I am not sure if
>>>> it
>>>> would work in India. If possible though, you may want to get some 3-D
>>>> models printed. Another thing is that you want to stay consistent. You
>>>> want
>>>> to make sure that you are doing things in the classroom the same way
>>>> you
>>>> will do them during testing. In my chemistry class, I did not have
>>>> access
>>>> to a lot of 3-D models, but for testing purposes, they made me a 3-D
>>>> model.
>>>> This really was not fair because it was made out of a lot of cups and
>>>> straws. I did not know what it was, and it is not fair to use models
>>>> for
>>>> testing purposes that you did not use in the classroom or to use a
>>>> different method for testing purposes that you did not use in the
>>>> classroom
>>>> because this will skew the results. If you use certain accommodations
>>>> in
>>>> the classroom, insist on the same accommodations for testing.
>>>>
>>>> Sabra Ewing
>>>>
>>>> On May 1, 2018, at 5:22 PM, Bhavya shah via BlindMath <
>>>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dear all,
>>>>
>>>> I am Bhavya Shah, a totally blind 16-year-old student from Mumbai,
>>>> India. Having just completed my tenth grade with the same Mathematics
>>>> and Science syllabus as my sighted peers in a mainstream school, I
>>>> intend to take up the Science stream according to the Indian education
>>>> system for Classes 11 and 12 with the subject combination of
>>>> Physics+Chemistry+Mathematics, and probably take up something along
>>>> the lines of Computer Science for my undergraduate studies after that
>>>> (although I shouldn?t overly worry about about finalizing that for
>>>> now, I suppose). Additionally, I shall be enrolling into coaching for
>>>> a very competitive pan-India engineering entrance examination over the
>>>> next two years where I will be delving into particularly advanced
>>>> topics in to the three afore-mentioned subjects.
>>>>
>>>> Till Class 10, I managed an overwhelming chunk of Math either orally
>>>> or mentally, and from what I have been informed, have dealt with
>>>> relatively very simple organic structures, general numericals and
>>>> chemical equations which I have been handling mostly via plain text.
>>>> It has become increasingly clear to me that this makeshift method will
>>>> be extremely inefficient and consequently infeasible for the kind of
>>>> syllabus I am transitioning to. Hence, I am looking for different
>>>> techniques, tools or methods of typing Math and Science that will
>>>> allow me to be as rapid a Math&Science typist as I am of the English
>>>> language (at its peak, my fingers have achieved about 100 WPM) so that
>>>> I can cope with the daily rigor this coaching demands. I need to be
>>>> able to type mathematical and scientific content accurately and
>>>> swiftly not necessarily such that it is visually readable by a sighted
>>>> professor but more so for my own reference, understanding and purposes
>>>> of review and revision.
>>>>
>>>> So far, I am versed only with two options ? ASCII Math, where I would
>>>> just type Math and Science using standard symbols present on any
>>>> keyboard such as /, *, ^ and so on to denote different things (perhaps
>>>> (x+2)/x-1)) in chiefly plain text, or type things in LaTeX using
>>>> MathType ($\frac{x+2}{x-1}$) and employ Math Player and NVDA to read
>>>> it. From my basic understanding of this and limited past experience
>>>> with each of these methods, the former sounds much faster and more
>>>> efficient to me, but I am open to evidence and experiences suggesting
>>>> otherwise. There are various other Math typing tools I have heard
>>>> about over the years such as Infty Reader and Lean Math, but have
>>>> never adequately researched them let alone used them to any extent.
>>>> Any information or instructional material on these and other potential
>>>> alternatives you would recommend would be of great help too.
>>>>
>>>> I would truly appreciate any assistance on different strategies you
>>>> may have used to math your sighted counterparts? speed in terms of
>>>> writing and solving mathematical and scientific material, questions
>>>> and problem sets.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Best Regards
>>>> Bhavya Shah
>>>>
>>>> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>>>>
>>>> Contacting Me
>>>> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125 at gmail.com
>>>> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bhavyashah125/
>>>> Twitter: @BhavyaShah125
>>>> Skype: bhavya.09
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> BlindMath mailing list
>>>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> BlindMath:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sabra
>>>> 1023%40gmail.com
>>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/b
>>>> lindmath-gems-home>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> BlindMath mailing list
>>>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> BlindMath:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/jaquis%40mac.com
>>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/b
>>>> lindmath-gems-home>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> BlindMath mailing list
>>>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> BlindMath:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/brand
>>>> onkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/b
>>>> lindmath-gems-home>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindMath mailing list
>>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> BlindMath:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/bhavya.shah125%40gmail.com
>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Best Regards
>> Bhavya Shah
>>
>> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>>
>> Contacting Me
>> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125 at gmail.com
>> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bhavyashah125/
>> Twitter: @BhavyaShah125
>> Skype: bhavya.09
>>
>
>
> --
> Best Regards
> Bhavya Shah
>
> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>
> Contacting Me
> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125 at gmail.com
> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bhavyashah125/
> Twitter: @BhavyaShah125
> Skype: bhavya.09
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 3 May 2018 20:15:23 +0000
> From: "Noble,Stephen L." <steve.noble at louisville.edu>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> 	<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Typing Math and Science Quickly and
> 	Understandably
> Message-ID:
> 	<BLUPR03MB37429385C9100338D044C1D83870 at BLUPR03MB374.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
> 	
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>
> It may be worth investigating John Gardner's LEAN math editor, which is
> based on using LaTeX within MathType/Word, but should be easier for blind
> students to use. John Gardner is a retired physicist who is blind...he
> founded ViewPlus. I think he monitors this list, but I think he may be
> traveling at the moment. You can read about the editor in this article:
>
> https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/978-3-319-08596-8_90.pdf<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__link.springer.com_content_pdf_10.1007_978-2D3-2D319-2D08596-2D8-5F90.pdf&d=DwMFAw&c=OAG1LQNACBDguGvBeNj18Swhr9TMTjS-x4O_KuapPgY&r=67olWPWhVEsI50vpRdydglG2RHA1T81UHrTuRDeUqW4&m=kaSw17FNyZBE3iHVvAFdahDAFZ9F4yv7bSIdgVnHBtw&s=RpuMqR-JU02fHYy_Xhn4e6yYHGQAO9FGj2QULhtvbX8&e=>
>
> I think you have to write Dr. Gardner directly to get the beta version of
> the LEAN math editor...I don't see it anymore on the ViewPlus website. His
> email is at the top of the article I referenced in the last link.
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> --Steve Noble
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org> on behalf of Bhavya shah via
> BlindMath <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, May 3, 2018 4:05 PM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> Cc: Bhavya shah
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Typing Math and Science Quickly and Understandably
>
> Hi Brandon,
>
> In essence, this method is very similar to how I used to use LaTeX of
> MathType to generate Math ML content that was visually readible and
> screen reader firnedly with the help of NVDA and Math Player. However,
> my only two concerns are that using LaTeX or any other standardized
> Math code to type would almost invariably mean (1) slightly longer and
> stricter syntax that would need to be mandatorily followed, and (2)
> there are several reasons, some of which include lack of customization
> in pronunciation and excessive pausing, why I found reading Math ML
> with the help of Math Player and NVDA somewhat cumbersome in my past
> experiences. If I come to think of it, it is quite certain that at
> some point in time, either for typing my own Math&Science or for
> reading my transcribed course material, I will need to deal with Math
> ML using Math Player and NVDA, so in a day at most, I will be retrying
> Math ML and sharing some of the more significant concerns and issues I
> have with interacting with Math ML.
>
> Kindly let me know if my present understanding of the method you
> described that this is just Pandoc instead of MathType and commandline
> instead of Word for using LaTeX to generate Math ML content is
> fundamentally incorrect.
>
> Thanks.
>
> On 5/3/18, Brandon Keith Biggs via BlindMath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Hello,
>> Markdown with LaTeX is perfect for you. Here is an example that Lukasz
>> (from this list wrote):
>>
>> ## Parametric Forms
>>
>> *transcriber: system of two equations, each one has an extra information
>> after comma*
>> \
>> $x = t^2 -2t$, $dx = 2t-2$
>> \
>> $y= t+1$, minimum at $t=1$
>> \
>> *transcriber: end of the system*
>>
>> For window:
>> \
>> $t$ from $[-2,4]$, $t$ step $= 0.1$
>> \
>> $x$ from $[-1,10]$
>> \
>> $y$ from $[-1,5]$
>>
>> # something easier
>>
>> $3x + y = 10$
>> \
>> $9 * 5 = 45$
>> \
>> Fractions
>> \
>> $\frac{1}{2} + \frac{1}{2} = 1$
>>
>>
>> This converts perfectly to MathML using pandoc:
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__pandoc.org_&d=DwIGaQ&c=OAG1LQNACBDguGvBeNj18Swhr9TMTjS-x4O_KuapPgY&r=67olWPWhVEsI50vpRdydglG2RHA1T81UHrTuRDeUqW4&m=HGMlsjdi47JihlG1SzDwmL6OS281U-DTbv5BDetCe70&s=65urgJ3Og7jOorLlizK1cT0cbHZJWak666Q7VTGI1Dg&e=
>>
>> You install pandoc, open a command line where you have the math content
>> and
>> type:
>>
>> pandoc my_math_file.md --mathml -s -o my_html_output_file.html
>>
>> You can give your professor the html file and they can read it in print
>> just fine. If you have a Braille display, the MathML shows up just fine
>> and
>> it is also read by the screen reader. NVDA requires Math player (see the
>> user guide under reading math content for more info).
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__brandonkeithbiggs.com_&d=DwIGaQ&c=OAG1LQNACBDguGvBeNj18Swhr9TMTjS-x4O_KuapPgY&r=67olWPWhVEsI50vpRdydglG2RHA1T81UHrTuRDeUqW4&m=HGMlsjdi47JihlG1SzDwmL6OS281U-DTbv5BDetCe70&s=BNyoRBILorxFQNL6m652PhPsll41aCWe1FGdWUfZMOc&e=>
>>
>> On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 11:00 AM, Sean Tikkun via BlindMath <
>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Bhavya Shah,
>>>
>>>    I am assembling a team to generate 3D models to assist in learning.
>>> The
>>> team leaders are a former math teacher fluent in Braille (me) and a
>>> Fabrication lab director that teaches Biological and Chemical Sciences
>>> at
>>> the University level. If you have access to 3D printing I would love to
>>> know what you may need. Files are easy to send. If not, perhaps there is
>>> a
>>> fabrication lab at a university in Mumbai that would be interested in
>>> some
>>> collaboration?
>>>    Feel free to reach out. stikkun at nccu.edu.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sean Tikkun
>>> Apple Distinguished Educator
>>> class of 2007
>>>
>>> On May 01, 2018, at 08:51 PM, Sabra Ewing via BlindMath <
>>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> I typed most of my math using the first method. You might be able to
>>> type
>>> more quickly if you had a braille keyboard. Also note that you can use
>>> parentheses and brackets. The Pearce in equation editor can produce math
>>> in
>>> a visual format. It is free. The braille note touch can do this as well
>>> although it is very expensive. I would definitely say to use a keyboard.
>>> Do
>>> not type on your phone as I am doing now because it is much slower.
>>> Another
>>> thing you can do is use copy and paste. You do not have to type
>>> everything
>>> from scratch. You can copy previous steps to your clipboard, paste them,
>>> and then modify them to create your future steps. Like for example, you
>>> might write a chemical equation that is not balanced. Paste this
>>> equation
>>> underneath it so you have two copies of the same equation. Then, take
>>> the
>>> first step toward balancing that equation and make those changes to your
>>> second copy. Now you have your equation and underneath it, you have the
>>> modified version with step one completed, so copied the version with
>>> step
>>> one completed to your clipboard and paste it underneath. Now you have
>>> the
>>> original equation, and you have two copies of step one. Modified the
>>> second
>>> copy of step one based on what you plan to do in step two. Continue this
>>> method until you have finished the problem. With a braille keyboard, you
>>> should be able to type as fast as someone can speak and even faster. If
>>> you
>>> cannot or a braille keyboard is not an option, you can record what is
>>> being
>>> said with a phone or other recording device and you can then go back
>>> over
>>> it. Another thing you can do is request things in electronic format.
>>> Mini
>>> American professors do not know how to create accessible math when it is
>>> really very easy as you described. You do not have to know any markup
>>> languages. You can create accessible math just by using your computer
>>> keyboard, and in many cases, if you are a computer science student, your
>>> math is in the perfect format to just paste right over into your ide.
>>> Maybe
>>> Indian professors would be better at creating accessible. If not, you
>>> might
>>> be able to find someone who can do it. This will be especially easy if
>>> you
>>> can find some funding. I was not lucky in this regard because other than
>>> professors, I never found a dedicated person who knew how to produce
>>> accessible math. I finally got to a position where I could no longer
>>> receive accessible math because I moved on to a four-year university
>>> where
>>> the professors did not know how to produce it. It is very ironic that
>>> when
>>> I started out at a two year university, the professors did know how to
>>> produce it. I approach programmers, professors, deans, and department
>>> head.
>>> No one actually knew how including the programmers who produce
>>> accessible
>>> math every day. I finally had to end up listening to my math on
>>> recordings
>>> and writing everything down. It was very difficult. If you want to get
>>> math
>>> in braille, there is software that can do it called Duxberry.
>>> Ironically,
>>> my university actually had this software, but no one knew how to use it
>>> including the people who worked at disability services. Getting it for
>>> yourself will not be helpful. If you get this software, you will need
>>> someone who can modify the equations for you. If your professor has
>>> files
>>> that were generated from a markup language, you could try asking for
>>> those
>>> source files. Even if you do not know the markup language, math is
>>> written
>>> very similarly when you are programming computers, so you could probably
>>> pick up how to read it. Unfortunately, my professors used PDFs that they
>>> got from other sources or pictures of hand written documents so I could
>>> not
>>> do this. People will try to tell you that Matt cannot be produced
>>> excessively on the computer. This simply is not true. Every mathematical
>>> formula, function, and number known to humankind can be programmed into
>>> a
>>> computer using a text based programming language. Also, many of these
>>> functions and formulas can be put into XL. If you can put these formulas
>>> into XL, then you can produce them accessibly in a word document. If
>>> someone is trying to tell you that they can't, then just tell them to
>>> put
>>> it in a spreadsheet, press F2 on the cells, and read the formulas that
>>> way.
>>> XL is very good because you can use it to organize data, you can use it
>>> as
>>> a calculator, and you can use it to create tables and graphs. You can
>>> put
>>> these documents in your dropbox and you can get the pictures of the
>>> graphs.
>>> You can then import these pictures into the voice app on your phone and
>>> you
>>> can listen to them. If you are going to listen to pie charts, to make it
>>> easier on yourself to read, use the 3-D exploding pie charts. This may
>>> sound counterintuitive, but when you listen to them, there is a bit more
>>> separation between each piece. I don't know how you would get training
>>> to
>>> listen to grass. I just automatically was born knowing how to do it. No
>>> one
>>> ever taught me. I could always listen to graphs very easily and I could
>>> never read tactile graphics. There is also a program called math tracks
>>> where you can create audio graphs by entering in equations.However, it
>>> is
>>> really best to have both the equation and the data because what if you
>>> created a graph using any equation, and you need to make some changes to
>>> the data? Well, you don't have the data, so what are you going to do?
>>> You
>>> could probably generate the data from the equation in some cases, but
>>> that
>>> will take forever. I like to listen to a graph and have the spreadsheet
>>> in
>>> front of me at the same time. There is also a blind chemist named Dr.
>>> sapalo. I'm not sure how to spell his name. I have his card somewhere
>>> but
>>> I
>>> just have to find it. I really wish people would start using those
>>> barcode
>>> Cards where I can scan the contact information into my phone, but I only
>>> know one person who uses those. Anyways, You may want to get in touch
>>> with
>>> him. He has all of these probes. They do all different things. They
>>> connect
>>> to a computer and they can measure chemical reactions and make graphs
>>> and
>>> do all this stuff depending on what probe you use. For example, you
>>> could
>>> use one probe to graph the color changes that occur during an
>>> experiment.
>>> You could use another probe to track temperature changes like ice
>>> melting.
>>> I don't really do chemistry, but if I did, I imagine I would want this
>>> thing, but I can't remember what it is called. But he is actually a
>>> chemistry professor at a university. He is totally blind and he teaches
>>> classes and runs labs and does all sorts of things. There are plenty of
>>> blind computer scientists, but he struck my interest in particular
>>> because
>>> I have not heard of mini blind chemists. He also had some good advice
>>> for
>>> 3-D printing that would work in the United States, but I am not sure if
>>> it
>>> would work in India. If possible though, you may want to get some 3-D
>>> models printed. Another thing is that you want to stay consistent. You
>>> want
>>> to make sure that you are doing things in the classroom the same way you
>>> will do them during testing. In my chemistry class, I did not have
>>> access
>>> to a lot of 3-D models, but for testing purposes, they made me a 3-D
>>> model.
>>> This really was not fair because it was made out of a lot of cups and
>>> straws. I did not know what it was, and it is not fair to use models for
>>> testing purposes that you did not use in the classroom or to use a
>>> different method for testing purposes that you did not use in the
>>> classroom
>>> because this will skew the results. If you use certain accommodations in
>>> the classroom, insist on the same accommodations for testing.
>>>
>>> Sabra Ewing
>>>
>>> On May 1, 2018, at 5:22 PM, Bhavya shah via BlindMath <
>>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>> I am Bhavya Shah, a totally blind 16-year-old student from Mumbai,
>>> India. Having just completed my tenth grade with the same Mathematics
>>> and Science syllabus as my sighted peers in a mainstream school, I
>>> intend to take up the Science stream according to the Indian education
>>> system for Classes 11 and 12 with the subject combination of
>>> Physics+Chemistry+Mathematics, and probably take up something along
>>> the lines of Computer Science for my undergraduate studies after that
>>> (although I shouldn?t overly worry about about finalizing that for
>>> now, I suppose). Additionally, I shall be enrolling into coaching for
>>> a very competitive pan-India engineering entrance examination over the
>>> next two years where I will be delving into particularly advanced
>>> topics in to the three afore-mentioned subjects.
>>>
>>> Till Class 10, I managed an overwhelming chunk of Math either orally
>>> or mentally, and from what I have been informed, have dealt with
>>> relatively very simple organic structures, general numericals and
>>> chemical equations which I have been handling mostly via plain text.
>>> It has become increasingly clear to me that this makeshift method will
>>> be extremely inefficient and consequently infeasible for the kind of
>>> syllabus I am transitioning to. Hence, I am looking for different
>>> techniques, tools or methods of typing Math and Science that will
>>> allow me to be as rapid a Math&Science typist as I am of the English
>>> language (at its peak, my fingers have achieved about 100 WPM) so that
>>> I can cope with the daily rigor this coaching demands. I need to be
>>> able to type mathematical and scientific content accurately and
>>> swiftly not necessarily such that it is visually readable by a sighted
>>> professor but more so for my own reference, understanding and purposes
>>> of review and revision.
>>>
>>> So far, I am versed only with two options ? ASCII Math, where I would
>>> just type Math and Science using standard symbols present on any
>>> keyboard such as /, *, ^ and so on to denote different things (perhaps
>>> (x+2)/x-1)) in chiefly plain text, or type things in LaTeX using
>>> MathType ($\frac{x+2}{x-1}$) and employ Math Player and NVDA to read
>>> it. From my basic understanding of this and limited past experience
>>> with each of these methods, the former sounds much faster and more
>>> efficient to me, but I am open to evidence and experiences suggesting
>>> otherwise. There are various other Math typing tools I have heard
>>> about over the years such as Infty Reader and Lean Math, but have
>>> never adequately researched them let alone used them to any extent.
>>> Any information or instructional material on these and other potential
>>> alternatives you would recommend would be of great help too.
>>>
>>> I would truly appreciate any assistance on different strategies you
>>> may have used to math your sighted counterparts? speed in terms of
>>> writing and solving mathematical and scientific material, questions
>>> and problem sets.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Best Regards
>>> Bhavya Shah
>>>
>>> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons:
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__bhavyashah125.wordpress.com_&d=DwIGaQ&c=OAG1LQNACBDguGvBeNj18Swhr9TMTjS-x4O_KuapPgY&r=67olWPWhVEsI50vpRdydglG2RHA1T81UHrTuRDeUqW4&m=HGMlsjdi47JihlG1SzDwmL6OS281U-DTbv5BDetCe70&s=R9KgdYRJbyD47wVeoO7hIuVi7CysgrrDDbogBx9SJnA&e=
>>>
>>> Contacting Me
>>> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125 at gmail.com
>>> LinkedIn:
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.linkedin.com_in_bhavyashah125_&d=DwIGaQ&c=OAG1LQNACBDguGvBeNj18Swhr9TMTjS-x4O_KuapPgY&r=67olWPWhVEsI50vpRdydglG2RHA1T81UHrTuRDeUqW4&m=HGMlsjdi47JihlG1SzDwmL6OS281U-DTbv5BDetCe70&s=Oxgh9gRMIqUO62t-vQirZMo4yFYBRlrDsDnll-w_e-E&e=
>>> Twitter: @BhavyaShah125
>>> Skype: bhavya.09
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindMath mailing list
>>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__nfbnet.org_mailman_listinfo_blindmath-5Fnfbnet.org&d=DwIGaQ&c=OAG1LQNACBDguGvBeNj18Swhr9TMTjS-x4O_KuapPgY&r=67olWPWhVEsI50vpRdydglG2RHA1T81UHrTuRDeUqW4&m=HGMlsjdi47JihlG1SzDwmL6OS281U-DTbv5BDetCe70&s=2p-nZtP8IGfSxdeCwGcLD5cePw5XrW9KSGWkBPLID-c&e=
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> BlindMath:
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__nfbnet.org_mailman_options_blindmath-5Fnfbnet.org_sabra&d=DwIGaQ&c=OAG1LQNACBDguGvBeNj18Swhr9TMTjS-x4O_KuapPgY&r=67olWPWhVEsI50vpRdydglG2RHA1T81UHrTuRDeUqW4&m=HGMlsjdi47JihlG1SzDwmL6OS281U-DTbv5BDetCe70&s=LIvFdVco921c780MmnJ7zrze5GZR5lbvuGbRaAJgpf4&e=
>>> 1023%40gmail.com
>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.blindscience.org_b&d=DwIGaQ&c=OAG1LQNACBDguGvBeNj18Swhr9TMTjS-x4O_KuapPgY&r=67olWPWhVEsI50vpRdydglG2RHA1T81UHrTuRDeUqW4&m=HGMlsjdi47JihlG1SzDwmL6OS281U-DTbv5BDetCe70&s=0IUVgIubdxeW1u-G_fVenbx8Ap_ZtIqd1oJGRentgnk&e=
>>> lindmath-gems-home>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindMath mailing list
>>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__nfbnet.org_mailman_listinfo_blindmath-5Fnfbnet.org&d=DwIGaQ&c=OAG1LQNACBDguGvBeNj18Swhr9TMTjS-x4O_KuapPgY&r=67olWPWhVEsI50vpRdydglG2RHA1T81UHrTuRDeUqW4&m=HGMlsjdi47JihlG1SzDwmL6OS281U-DTbv5BDetCe70&s=2p-nZtP8IGfSxdeCwGcLD5cePw5XrW9KSGWkBPLID-c&e=
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> BlindMath:
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__nfbnet.org_mailman_options_blindmath-5Fnfbnet.org_jaquis-2540mac.com&d=DwIGaQ&c=OAG1LQNACBDguGvBeNj18Swhr9TMTjS-x4O_KuapPgY&r=67olWPWhVEsI50vpRdydglG2RHA1T81UHrTuRDeUqW4&m=HGMlsjdi47JihlG1SzDwmL6OS281U-DTbv5BDetCe70&s=t0MetbeBZ2Y6bBX2ZZZUOIZXbOG6PQhMDqtPeOOsty4&e=
>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.blindscience.org_b&d=DwIGaQ&c=OAG1LQNACBDguGvBeNj18Swhr9TMTjS-x4O_KuapPgY&r=67olWPWhVEsI50vpRdydglG2RHA1T81UHrTuRDeUqW4&m=HGMlsjdi47JihlG1SzDwmL6OS281U-DTbv5BDetCe70&s=0IUVgIubdxeW1u-G_fVenbx8Ap_ZtIqd1oJGRentgnk&e=
>>> lindmath-gems-home>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindMath mailing list
>>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__nfbnet.org_mailman_listinfo_blindmath-5Fnfbnet.org&d=DwIGaQ&c=OAG1LQNACBDguGvBeNj18Swhr9TMTjS-x4O_KuapPgY&r=67olWPWhVEsI50vpRdydglG2RHA1T81UHrTuRDeUqW4&m=HGMlsjdi47JihlG1SzDwmL6OS281U-DTbv5BDetCe70&s=2p-nZtP8IGfSxdeCwGcLD5cePw5XrW9KSGWkBPLID-c&e=
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> BlindMath:
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__nfbnet.org_mailman_options_blindmath-5Fnfbnet.org_brand&d=DwIGaQ&c=OAG1LQNACBDguGvBeNj18Swhr9TMTjS-x4O_KuapPgY&r=67olWPWhVEsI50vpRdydglG2RHA1T81UHrTuRDeUqW4&m=HGMlsjdi47JihlG1SzDwmL6OS281U-DTbv5BDetCe70&s=bRkfO3riiOpuh2g__KseT5GQGKk-RF_7Irl_9_YwjRI&e=
>>> onkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.blindscience.org_b&d=DwIGaQ&c=OAG1LQNACBDguGvBeNj18Swhr9TMTjS-x4O_KuapPgY&r=67olWPWhVEsI50vpRdydglG2RHA1T81UHrTuRDeUqW4&m=HGMlsjdi47JihlG1SzDwmL6OS281U-DTbv5BDetCe70&s=0IUVgIubdxeW1u-G_fVenbx8Ap_ZtIqd1oJGRentgnk&e=
>>> lindmath-gems-home>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindMath mailing list
>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__nfbnet.org_mailman_listinfo_blindmath-5Fnfbnet.org&d=DwIGaQ&c=OAG1LQNACBDguGvBeNj18Swhr9TMTjS-x4O_KuapPgY&r=67olWPWhVEsI50vpRdydglG2RHA1T81UHrTuRDeUqW4&m=HGMlsjdi47JihlG1SzDwmL6OS281U-DTbv5BDetCe70&s=2p-nZtP8IGfSxdeCwGcLD5cePw5XrW9KSGWkBPLID-c&e=
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindMath:
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__nfbnet.org_mailman_options_blindmath-5Fnfbnet.org_bhavya.shah125-2540gmail.com&d=DwIGaQ&c=OAG1LQNACBDguGvBeNj18Swhr9TMTjS-x4O_KuapPgY&r=67olWPWhVEsI50vpRdydglG2RHA1T81UHrTuRDeUqW4&m=HGMlsjdi47JihlG1SzDwmL6OS281U-DTbv5BDetCe70&s=BAaXbycqKk4jTkkRjLBru-2ksAGavKmzL5s8SOg-jfM&e=
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.blindscience.org_blindmath-2Dgems-2Dhome&d=DwIGaQ&c=OAG1LQNACBDguGvBeNj18Swhr9TMTjS-x4O_KuapPgY&r=67olWPWhVEsI50vpRdydglG2RHA1T81UHrTuRDeUqW4&m=HGMlsjdi47JihlG1SzDwmL6OS281U-DTbv5BDetCe70&s=F8TGpqh2pJLxoGE5zjf3sRp2hG1J-mx5xHioneVmzI4&e=>
>>
>
>
> --
> Best Regards
> Bhavya Shah
>
> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons:
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__bhavyashah125.wordpress.com_&d=DwIGaQ&c=OAG1LQNACBDguGvBeNj18Swhr9TMTjS-x4O_KuapPgY&r=67olWPWhVEsI50vpRdydglG2RHA1T81UHrTuRDeUqW4&m=HGMlsjdi47JihlG1SzDwmL6OS281U-DTbv5BDetCe70&s=R9KgdYRJbyD47wVeoO7hIuVi7CysgrrDDbogBx9SJnA&e=
>
> Contacting Me
> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125 at gmail.com
> LinkedIn:
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> Twitter: @BhavyaShah125
> Skype: bhavya.09
>
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 3 May 2018 22:00:28 +0100
> From: Lukasz Grabowski <graboluk at gmail.com>
> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Typing Math and Science Quickly and
> 	Understandably
> Message-ID: <20180503215959.021015e7 at demokritos>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Hello,
>
> Yes I can confirm it is fundamentally incorrect, to say the least
> ("not even wrong", as the saying goes). In order to understand that it
> is so, you would have to compare both methods at, say,  taking notes for
> an advanced university-level mathematics course, in which case you would
> realize that the efficiency of using markdown with latex is orders of
> magnitude higher than using word with mathtype.
>
>
> Best,
> Lukasz
>
> 		
>
> On Fri, 4 May 2018 01:35:01 +0530
> Bhavya shah via BlindMath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi Brandon,
>>
>> In essence, this method is very similar to how I used to use LaTeX of
>> MathType to generate Math ML content that was visually readible and
>> screen reader firnedly with the help of NVDA and Math Player. However,
>> my only two concerns are that using LaTeX or any other standardized
>> Math code to type would almost invariably mean (1) slightly longer and
>> stricter syntax that would need to be mandatorily followed, and (2)
>> there are several reasons, some of which include lack of customization
>> in pronunciation and excessive pausing, why I found reading Math ML
>> with the help of Math Player and NVDA somewhat cumbersome in my past
>> experiences. If I come to think of it, it is quite certain that at
>> some point in time, either for typing my own Math&Science or for
>> reading my transcribed course material, I will need to deal with Math
>> ML using Math Player and NVDA, so in a day at most, I will be retrying
>> Math ML and sharing some of the more significant concerns and issues I
>> have with interacting with Math ML.
>>
>> Kindly let me know if my present understanding of the method you
>> described that this is just Pandoc instead of MathType and commandline
>> instead of Word for using LaTeX to generate Math ML content is
>> fundamentally incorrect.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> On 5/3/18, Brandon Keith Biggs via BlindMath <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>> > Hello,
>> > Markdown with LaTeX is perfect for you. Here is an example that
>> > Lukasz (from this list wrote):
>> >
>> > ## Parametric Forms
>> >
>> > *transcriber: system of two equations, each one has an extra
>> > information after comma*
>> > \
>> > $x = t^2 -2t$, $dx = 2t-2$
>> > \
>> > $y= t+1$, minimum at $t=1$
>> > \
>> > *transcriber: end of the system*
>> >
>> > For window:
>> > \
>> > $t$ from $[-2,4]$, $t$ step $= 0.1$
>> > \
>> > $x$ from $[-1,10]$
>> > \
>> > $y$ from $[-1,5]$
>> >
>> > # something easier
>> >
>> > $3x + y = 10$
>> > \
>> > $9 * 5 = 45$
>> > \
>> > Fractions
>> > \
>> > $\frac{1}{2} + \frac{1}{2} = 1$
>> >
>> >
>> > This converts perfectly to MathML using pandoc:
>> > https://pandoc.org/
>> >
>> > You install pandoc, open a command line where you have the math
>> > content and type:
>> >
>> > pandoc my_math_file.md --mathml -s -o my_html_output_file.html
>> >
>> > You can give your professor the html file and they can read it in
>> > print just fine. If you have a Braille display, the MathML shows up
>> > just fine and it is also read by the screen reader. NVDA requires
>> > Math player (see the user guide under reading math content for more
>> > info). Thanks,
>> >
>> >
>> > Brandon Keith Biggs <http://brandonkeithbiggs.com/>
>> >
>> > On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 11:00 AM, Sean Tikkun via BlindMath <
>> > blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Bhavya Shah,
>> >>
>> >>    I am assembling a team to generate 3D models to assist in
>> >> learning. The team leaders are a former math teacher fluent in
>> >> Braille (me) and a Fabrication lab director that teaches
>> >> Biological and Chemical Sciences at the University level. If you
>> >> have access to 3D printing I would love to know what you may need.
>> >> Files are easy to send. If not, perhaps there is a fabrication lab
>> >> at a university in Mumbai that would be interested in some
>> >> collaboration? Feel free to reach out. stikkun at nccu.edu.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Sean Tikkun
>> >> Apple Distinguished Educator
>> >> class of 2007
>> >>
>> >> On May 01, 2018, at 08:51 PM, Sabra Ewing via BlindMath <
>> >> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I typed most of my math using the first method. You might be able
>> >> to type more quickly if you had a braille keyboard. Also note that
>> >> you can use parentheses and brackets. The Pearce in equation
>> >> editor can produce math in
>> >> a visual format. It is free. The braille note touch can do this as
>> >> well although it is very expensive. I would definitely say to use
>> >> a keyboard. Do
>> >> not type on your phone as I am doing now because it is much slower.
>> >> Another
>> >> thing you can do is use copy and paste. You do not have to type
>> >> everything from scratch. You can copy previous steps to your
>> >> clipboard, paste them, and then modify them to create your future
>> >> steps. Like for example, you might write a chemical equation that
>> >> is not balanced. Paste this equation underneath it so you have two
>> >> copies of the same equation. Then, take the first step toward
>> >> balancing that equation and make those changes to your second
>> >> copy. Now you have your equation and underneath it, you have the
>> >> modified version with step one completed, so copied the version
>> >> with step one completed to your clipboard and paste it underneath.
>> >> Now you have the original equation, and you have two copies of
>> >> step one. Modified the second copy of step one based on what you
>> >> plan to do in step two. Continue this method until you have
>> >> finished the problem. With a braille keyboard, you should be able
>> >> to type as fast as someone can speak and even faster. If you
>> >> cannot or a braille keyboard is not an option, you can record what
>> >> is being
>> >> said with a phone or other recording device and you can then go
>> >> back over it. Another thing you can do is request things in
>> >> electronic format. Mini American professors do not know how to
>> >> create accessible math when it is really very easy as you
>> >> described. You do not have to know any markup languages. You can
>> >> create accessible math just by using your computer keyboard, and
>> >> in many cases, if you are a computer science student, your math is
>> >> in the perfect format to just paste right over into your ide. Maybe
>> >> Indian professors would be better at creating accessible. If not,
>> >> you might
>> >> be able to find someone who can do it. This will be especially
>> >> easy if you can find some funding. I was not lucky in this regard
>> >> because other than professors, I never found a dedicated person
>> >> who knew how to produce accessible math. I finally got to a
>> >> position where I could no longer receive accessible math because I
>> >> moved on to a four-year university where the professors did not
>> >> know how to produce it. It is very ironic that when I started out
>> >> at a two year university, the professors did know how to produce
>> >> it. I approach programmers, professors, deans, and department head.
>> >> No one actually knew how including the programmers who produce
>> >> accessible math every day. I finally had to end up listening to my
>> >> math on recordings and writing everything down. It was very
>> >> difficult. If you want to get math
>> >> in braille, there is software that can do it called Duxberry.
>> >> Ironically, my university actually had this software, but no one
>> >> knew how to use it including the people who worked at disability
>> >> services. Getting it for yourself will not be helpful. If you get
>> >> this software, you will need someone who can modify the equations
>> >> for you. If your professor has files that were generated from a
>> >> markup language, you could try asking for those source files. Even
>> >> if you do not know the markup language, math is written very
>> >> similarly when you are programming computers, so you could
>> >> probably pick up how to read it. Unfortunately, my professors used
>> >> PDFs that they got from other sources or pictures of hand written
>> >> documents so I could not do this. People will try to tell you that
>> >> Matt cannot be produced excessively on the computer. This simply
>> >> is not true. Every mathematical formula, function, and number
>> >> known to humankind can be programmed into a computer using a text
>> >> based programming language. Also, many of these functions and
>> >> formulas can be put into XL. If you can put these formulas into
>> >> XL, then you can produce them accessibly in a word document. If
>> >> someone is trying to tell you that they can't, then just tell them
>> >> to put it in a spreadsheet, press F2 on the cells, and read the
>> >> formulas that way. XL is very good because you can use it to
>> >> organize data, you can use it as a calculator, and you can use it
>> >> to create tables and graphs. You can put these documents in your
>> >> dropbox and you can get the pictures of the graphs.
>> >> You can then import these pictures into the voice app on your
>> >> phone and you
>> >> can listen to them. If you are going to listen to pie charts, to
>> >> make it easier on yourself to read, use the 3-D exploding pie
>> >> charts. This may sound counterintuitive, but when you listen to
>> >> them, there is a bit more separation between each piece. I don't
>> >> know how you would get training to listen to grass. I just
>> >> automatically was born knowing how to do it. No one
>> >> ever taught me. I could always listen to graphs very easily and I
>> >> could never read tactile graphics. There is also a program called
>> >> math tracks where you can create audio graphs by entering in
>> >> equations.However, it is really best to have both the equation and
>> >> the data because what if you created a graph using any equation,
>> >> and you need to make some changes to the data? Well, you don't
>> >> have the data, so what are you going to do? You could probably
>> >> generate the data from the equation in some cases, but that will
>> >> take forever. I like to listen to a graph and have the spreadsheet
>> >> in front of me at the same time. There is also a blind chemist
>> >> named Dr. sapalo. I'm not sure how to spell his name. I have his
>> >> card somewhere but I just have to find it. I really wish people
>> >> would start using those barcode Cards where I can scan the contact
>> >> information into my phone, but I only know one person who uses
>> >> those. Anyways, You may want to get in touch with him. He has all
>> >> of these probes. They do all different things. They connect
>> >> to a computer and they can measure chemical reactions and make
>> >> graphs and do all this stuff depending on what probe you use. For
>> >> example, you could use one probe to graph the color changes that
>> >> occur during an experiment. You could use another probe to track
>> >> temperature changes like ice melting. I don't really do chemistry,
>> >> but if I did, I imagine I would want this thing, but I can't
>> >> remember what it is called. But he is actually a chemistry
>> >> professor at a university. He is totally blind and he teaches
>> >> classes and runs labs and does all sorts of things. There are
>> >> plenty of blind computer scientists, but he struck my interest in
>> >> particular because I have not heard of mini blind chemists. He
>> >> also had some good advice for 3-D printing that would work in the
>> >> United States, but I am not sure if it would work in India. If
>> >> possible though, you may want to get some 3-D models printed.
>> >> Another thing is that you want to stay consistent. You want to
>> >> make sure that you are doing things in the classroom the same way
>> >> you will do them during testing. In my chemistry class, I did not
>> >> have access to a lot of 3-D models, but for testing purposes, they
>> >> made me a 3-D model. This really was not fair because it was made
>> >> out of a lot of cups and straws. I did not know what it was, and
>> >> it is not fair to use models for testing purposes that you did not
>> >> use in the classroom or to use a different method for testing
>> >> purposes that you did not use in the classroom
>> >> because this will skew the results. If you use certain
>> >> accommodations in the classroom, insist on the same accommodations
>> >> for testing.
>> >>
>> >> Sabra Ewing
>> >>
>> >> On May 1, 2018, at 5:22 PM, Bhavya shah via BlindMath <
>> >> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Dear all,
>> >>
>> >> I am Bhavya Shah, a totally blind 16-year-old student from Mumbai,
>> >> India. Having just completed my tenth grade with the same
>> >> Mathematics and Science syllabus as my sighted peers in a
>> >> mainstream school, I intend to take up the Science stream
>> >> according to the Indian education system for Classes 11 and 12
>> >> with the subject combination of Physics+Chemistry+Mathematics, and
>> >> probably take up something along the lines of Computer Science for
>> >> my undergraduate studies after that (although I shouldn?t overly
>> >> worry about about finalizing that for now, I suppose).
>> >> Additionally, I shall be enrolling into coaching for a very
>> >> competitive pan-India engineering entrance examination over the
>> >> next two years where I will be delving into particularly advanced
>> >> topics in to the three afore-mentioned subjects.
>> >>
>> >> Till Class 10, I managed an overwhelming chunk of Math either
>> >> orally or mentally, and from what I have been informed, have dealt
>> >> with relatively very simple organic structures, general numericals
>> >> and chemical equations which I have been handling mostly via plain
>> >> text. It has become increasingly clear to me that this makeshift
>> >> method will be extremely inefficient and consequently infeasible
>> >> for the kind of syllabus I am transitioning to. Hence, I am
>> >> looking for different techniques, tools or methods of typing Math
>> >> and Science that will allow me to be as rapid a Math&Science
>> >> typist as I am of the English language (at its peak, my fingers
>> >> have achieved about 100 WPM) so that I can cope with the daily
>> >> rigor this coaching demands. I need to be able to type
>> >> mathematical and scientific content accurately and swiftly not
>> >> necessarily such that it is visually readable by a sighted
>> >> professor but more so for my own reference, understanding and
>> >> purposes of review and revision.
>> >>
>> >> So far, I am versed only with two options ? ASCII Math, where I
>> >> would just type Math and Science using standard symbols present on
>> >> any keyboard such as /, *, ^ and so on to denote different things
>> >> (perhaps (x+2)/x-1)) in chiefly plain text, or type things in
>> >> LaTeX using MathType ($\frac{x+2}{x-1}$) and employ Math Player
>> >> and NVDA to read it. From my basic understanding of this and
>> >> limited past experience with each of these methods, the former
>> >> sounds much faster and more efficient to me, but I am open to
>> >> evidence and experiences suggesting otherwise. There are various
>> >> other Math typing tools I have heard about over the years such as
>> >> Infty Reader and Lean Math, but have never adequately researched
>> >> them let alone used them to any extent. Any information or
>> >> instructional material on these and other potential alternatives
>> >> you would recommend would be of great help too.
>> >>
>> >> I would truly appreciate any assistance on different strategies you
>> >> may have used to math your sighted counterparts? speed in terms of
>> >> writing and solving mathematical and scientific material, questions
>> >> and problem sets.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Best Regards
>> >> Bhavya Shah
>> >>
>> >> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons:
>> >> https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>> >>
>> >> Contacting Me
>> >> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125 at gmail.com
>> >> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bhavyashah125/
>> >> Twitter: @BhavyaShah125
>> >> Skype: bhavya.09
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> BlindMath mailing list
>> >> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> >> for BlindMath:
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sabra
>> >> 1023%40gmail.com
>> >> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/b
>> >> lindmath-gems-home>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> BlindMath mailing list
>> >> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> >> for BlindMath:
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/jaquis%40mac.com
>> >> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/b
>> >> lindmath-gems-home>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> BlindMath mailing list
>> >> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> >> for BlindMath:
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/brand
>> >> onkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>> >> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/b
>> >> lindmath-gems-home>
>> >>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > BlindMath mailing list
>> > BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> > for BlindMath:
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/bhavya.shah125%40gmail.com
>> > BlindMath Gems can be found at
>> > <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 3 May 2018 21:11:52 +0000
> From: "Godfrey, Jonathan" <A.J.Godfrey at massey.ac.nz>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> 	<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Typing Math and Science Quickly and
> 	Understandably
> Message-ID:
> 	<SY3PR01MB206033D97708F1FCF13386A893870 at SY3PR01MB2060.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
> 	
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hello,
>
> You are correct that use of LaTeX within a markdown document leads to the
> same outcome as the workflow you have used in MS Word with MathType. I don't
> think you should suddenly change workflow for improved access to the
> mathematical content. There are other reasons why you should get use of
> pandoc into your toolbox though.
>
> I do think Brandon's example is more cumbersome than it needed to be. I use
> markdown almost daily, and I only ever put a \ to get mathematical content.
> Forever listening to backslash from any screen reader is annoying, slows me
> down, and often presents a distraction. This was a leading reason for
> reducing my use of full-blown LaTeX.
>
> I would urge you to make use of the LEAN editor mentioned in this thread to
> enhance your workflow. The feature of LEAN I use most is the addition of
> tags to the math content so that you do not need to go backwards and
> forwards into LaTeX mode to read the content, and you don't have to use the
> specific combination of tools (screen reader + math player). LEAN offers an
> alternative and I am not suggesting it as a replacement. Having options is
> power, because it puts you in control.
>
> I do think you need to enhance what you do a little to get the best of what
> you have now before you embark on all manner of options. I would also
> suggest to you that the accuracy aspect of your criticism of LaTeX (while
> true) is also true for practically every tool you will use, and is also true
> for the scientific content you will be working with. I think your initial
> message to this thread said you were considering a computer science major;
> the programming languages you use will have limited flexibility to deal with
> the human inaccuracies that even the best among us is prone to create. For
> me, it is the ability to find and correct these inaccuracies that tells me
> how truly accessible a solution is for me. Markdown is the solution that
> works best for me today; it is not the only solution I use.
>
> My final point is about use of a personal system. I know plenty of blind
> people who have little shorthand things we write. The problem is that they
> are individual and can't be shared. The most likely person you will want to
> share your work with is your future-self. Will you recall the shorthand you
> use today in ten years' time?
>
> Cheers,
> Jonathan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Bhavya shah via
> BlindMath
> Sent: Friday, 4 May 2018 8:05 a.m.
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Bhavya shah <bhavya.shah125 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Typing Math and Science Quickly and Understandably
>
> Hi Brandon,
>
> In essence, this method is very similar to how I used to use LaTeX of
> MathType to generate Math ML content that was visually readible and screen
> reader firnedly with the help of NVDA and Math Player. However, my only two
> concerns are that using LaTeX or any other standardized Math code to type
> would almost invariably mean (1) slightly longer and stricter syntax that
> would need to be mandatorily followed, and (2) there are several reasons,
> some of which include lack of customization in pronunciation and excessive
> pausing, why I found reading Math ML with the help of Math Player and NVDA
> somewhat cumbersome in my past experiences. If I come to think of it, it is
> quite certain that at some point in time, either for typing my own
> Math&Science or for reading my transcribed course material, I will need to
> deal with Math ML using Math Player and NVDA, so in a day at most, I will be
> retrying Math ML and sharing some of the more significant concerns and
> issues I have with interacting with Math ML.
>
> Kindly let me know if my present understanding of the method you described
> that this is just Pandoc instead of MathType and commandline instead of Word
> for using LaTeX to generate Math ML content is fundamentally incorrect.
>
> Thanks.
>
> On 5/3/18, Brandon Keith Biggs via BlindMath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Hello,
>> Markdown with LaTeX is perfect for you. Here is an example that Lukasz
>> (from this list wrote):
>>
>> ## Parametric Forms
>>
>> *transcriber: system of two equations, each one has an extra
>> information after comma* \ $x = t^2 -2t$, $dx = 2t-2$ \ $y= t+1$,
>> minimum at $t=1$ \
>> *transcriber: end of the system*
>>
>> For window:
>> \
>> $t$ from $[-2,4]$, $t$ step $= 0.1$
>> \
>> $x$ from $[-1,10]$
>> \
>> $y$ from $[-1,5]$
>>
>> # something easier
>>
>> $3x + y = 10$
>> \
>> $9 * 5 = 45$
>> \
>> Fractions
>> \
>> $\frac{1}{2} + \frac{1}{2} = 1$
>>
>>
>> This converts perfectly to MathML using pandoc:
>> https://pandoc.org/
>>
>> You install pandoc, open a command line where you have the math
>> content and
>> type:
>>
>> pandoc my_math_file.md --mathml -s -o my_html_output_file.html
>>
>> You can give your professor the html file and they can read it in
>> print just fine. If you have a Braille display, the MathML shows up
>> just fine and it is also read by the screen reader. NVDA requires Math
>> player (see the user guide under reading math content for more info).
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>> Brandon Keith Biggs <http://brandonkeithbiggs.com/>
>>
>> On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 11:00 AM, Sean Tikkun via BlindMath <
>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Bhavya Shah,
>>>
>>>    I am assembling a team to generate 3D models to assist in
>>> learning. The team leaders are a former math teacher fluent in
>>> Braille (me) and a Fabrication lab director that teaches Biological
>>> and Chemical Sciences at the University level. If you have access to
>>> 3D printing I would love to know what you may need. Files are easy to
>>> send. If not, perhaps there is a fabrication lab at a university in
>>> Mumbai that would be interested in some collaboration?
>>>    Feel free to reach out. stikkun at nccu.edu.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sean Tikkun
>>> Apple Distinguished Educator
>>> class of 2007
>>>
>>> On May 01, 2018, at 08:51 PM, Sabra Ewing via BlindMath <
>>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> I typed most of my math using the first method. You might be able to
>>> type more quickly if you had a braille keyboard. Also note that you
>>> can use parentheses and brackets. The Pearce in equation editor can
>>> produce math in a visual format. It is free. The braille note touch
>>> can do this as well although it is very expensive. I would definitely
>>> say to use a keyboard.
>>> Do
>>> not type on your phone as I am doing now because it is much slower.
>>> Another
>>> thing you can do is use copy and paste. You do not have to type
>>> everything from scratch. You can copy previous steps to your
>>> clipboard, paste them, and then modify them to create your future
>>> steps. Like for example, you might write a chemical equation that is
>>> not balanced. Paste this equation underneath it so you have two
>>> copies of the same equation. Then, take the first step toward
>>> balancing that equation and make those changes to your second copy.
>>> Now you have your equation and underneath it, you have the modified
>>> version with step one completed, so copied the version with step one
>>> completed to your clipboard and paste it underneath. Now you have the
>>> original equation, and you have two copies of step one. Modified the
>>> second copy of step one based on what you plan to do in step two.
>>> Continue this method until you have finished the problem. With a
>>> braille keyboard, you should be able to type as fast as someone can
>>> speak and even faster. If you cannot or a braille keyboard is not an
>>> option, you can record what is being said with a phone or other
>>> recording device and you can then go back over it. Another thing you
>>> can do is request things in electronic format. Mini American
>>> professors do not know how to create accessible math when it is
>>> really very easy as you described. You do not have to know any markup
>>> languages. You can create accessible math just by using your computer
>>> keyboard, and in many cases, if you are a computer science student,
>>> your math is in the perfect format to just paste right over into your
>>> ide.
>>> Maybe
>>> Indian professors would be better at creating accessible. If not, you
>>> might be able to find someone who can do it. This will be especially
>>> easy if you can find some funding. I was not lucky in this regard
>>> because other than professors, I never found a dedicated person who
>>> knew how to produce accessible math. I finally got to a position
>>> where I could no longer receive accessible math because I moved on to
>>> a four-year university where the professors did not know how to
>>> produce it. It is very ironic that when I started out at a two year
>>> university, the professors did know how to produce it. I approach
>>> programmers, professors, deans, and department head.
>>> No one actually knew how including the programmers who produce
>>> accessible math every day. I finally had to end up listening to my
>>> math on recordings and writing everything down. It was very
>>> difficult. If you want to get math in braille, there is software that
>>> can do it called Duxberry. Ironically, my university actually had
>>> this software, but no one knew how to use it including the people who
>>> worked at disability services. Getting it for yourself will not be
>>> helpful. If you get this software, you will need someone who can
>>> modify the equations for you. If your professor has files that were
>>> generated from a markup language, you could try asking for those
>>> source files. Even if you do not know the markup language, math is
>>> written very similarly when you are programming computers, so you
>>> could probably pick up how to read it. Unfortunately, my professors
>>> used PDFs that they got from other sources or pictures of hand
>>> written documents so I could not do this. People will try to tell you
>>> that Matt cannot be produced excessively on the computer. This simply
>>> is not true. Every mathematical formula, function, and number known
>>> to humankind can be programmed into a computer using a text based
>>> programming language. Also, many of these functions and formulas can
>>> be put into XL. If you can put these formulas into XL, then you can
>>> produce them accessibly in a word document. If someone is trying to
>>> tell you that they can't, then just tell them to put it in a
>>> spreadsheet, press F2 on the cells, and read the formulas that way.
>>> XL is very good because you can use it to organize data, you can use
>>> it as a calculator, and you can use it to create tables and graphs.
>>> You can put these documents in your dropbox and you can get the
>>> pictures of the graphs.
>>> You can then import these pictures into the voice app on your phone
>>> and you can listen to them. If you are going to listen to pie charts,
>>> to make it easier on yourself to read, use the 3-D exploding pie
>>> charts. This may sound counterintuitive, but when you listen to them,
>>> there is a bit more separation between each piece. I don't know how
>>> you would get training to listen to grass. I just automatically was
>>> born knowing how to do it. No one ever taught me. I could always
>>> listen to graphs very easily and I could never read tactile graphics.
>>> There is also a program called math tracks where you can create audio
>>> graphs by entering in equations.However, it is really best to have
>>> both the equation and the data because what if you created a graph
>>> using any equation, and you need to make some changes to the data?
>>> Well, you don't have the data, so what are you going to do? You could
>>> probably generate the data from the equation in some cases, but that
>>> will take forever. I like to listen to a graph and have the
>>> spreadsheet in front of me at the same time. There is also a blind
>>> chemist named Dr.
>>> sapalo. I'm not sure how to spell his name. I have his card somewhere
>>> but I just have to find it. I really wish people would start using
>>> those barcode Cards where I can scan the contact information into my
>>> phone, but I only know one person who uses those. Anyways, You may
>>> want to get in touch with him. He has all of these probes. They do
>>> all different things. They connect to a computer and they can measure
>>> chemical reactions and make graphs and do all this stuff depending on
>>> what probe you use. For example, you could use one probe to graph the
>>> color changes that occur during an experiment.
>>> You could use another probe to track temperature changes like ice
>>> melting.
>>> I don't really do chemistry, but if I did, I imagine I would want
>>> this thing, but I can't remember what it is called. But he is
>>> actually a chemistry professor at a university. He is totally blind
>>> and he teaches classes and runs labs and does all sorts of things.
>>> There are plenty of blind computer scientists, but he struck my
>>> interest in particular because I have not heard of mini blind
>>> chemists. He also had some good advice for 3-D printing that would
>>> work in the United States, but I am not sure if it would work in
>>> India. If possible though, you may want to get some 3-D models
>>> printed. Another thing is that you want to stay consistent. You want
>>> to make sure that you are doing things in the classroom the same way
>>> you will do them during testing. In my chemistry class, I did not
>>> have access to a lot of 3-D models, but for testing purposes, they
>>> made me a 3-D model.
>>> This really was not fair because it was made out of a lot of cups and
>>> straws. I did not know what it was, and it is not fair to use models
>>> for testing purposes that you did not use in the classroom or to use
>>> a different method for testing purposes that you did not use in the
>>> classroom because this will skew the results. If you use certain
>>> accommodations in the classroom, insist on the same accommodations
>>> for testing.
>>>
>>> Sabra Ewing
>>>
>>> On May 1, 2018, at 5:22 PM, Bhavya shah via BlindMath <
>>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>> I am Bhavya Shah, a totally blind 16-year-old student from Mumbai,
>>> India. Having just completed my tenth grade with the same Mathematics
>>> and Science syllabus as my sighted peers in a mainstream school, I
>>> intend to take up the Science stream according to the Indian
>>> education system for Classes 11 and 12 with the subject combination
>>> of
>>> Physics+Chemistry+Mathematics, and probably take up something along
>>> the lines of Computer Science for my undergraduate studies after that
>>> (although I shouldn?t overly worry about about finalizing that for
>>> now, I suppose). Additionally, I shall be enrolling into coaching for
>>> a very competitive pan-India engineering entrance examination over
>>> the next two years where I will be delving into particularly advanced
>>> topics in to the three afore-mentioned subjects.
>>>
>>> Till Class 10, I managed an overwhelming chunk of Math either orally
>>> or mentally, and from what I have been informed, have dealt with
>>> relatively very simple organic structures, general numericals and
>>> chemical equations which I have been handling mostly via plain text.
>>> It has become increasingly clear to me that this makeshift method
>>> will be extremely inefficient and consequently infeasible for the
>>> kind of syllabus I am transitioning to. Hence, I am looking for
>>> different techniques, tools or methods of typing Math and Science
>>> that will allow me to be as rapid a Math&Science typist as I am of
>>> the English language (at its peak, my fingers have achieved about 100
>>> WPM) so that I can cope with the daily rigor this coaching demands. I
>>> need to be able to type mathematical and scientific content
>>> accurately and swiftly not necessarily such that it is visually
>>> readable by a sighted professor but more so for my own reference,
>>> understanding and purposes of review and revision.
>>>
>>> So far, I am versed only with two options ? ASCII Math, where I would
>>> just type Math and Science using standard symbols present on any
>>> keyboard such as /, *, ^ and so on to denote different things
>>> (perhaps
>>> (x+2)/x-1)) in chiefly plain text, or type things in LaTeX using
>>> MathType ($\frac{x+2}{x-1}$) and employ Math Player and NVDA to read
>>> it. From my basic understanding of this and limited past experience
>>> with each of these methods, the former sounds much faster and more
>>> efficient to me, but I am open to evidence and experiences suggesting
>>> otherwise. There are various other Math typing tools I have heard
>>> about over the years such as Infty Reader and Lean Math, but have
>>> never adequately researched them let alone used them to any extent.
>>> Any information or instructional material on these and other
>>> potential alternatives you would recommend would be of great help too.
>>>
>>> I would truly appreciate any assistance on different strategies you
>>> may have used to math your sighted counterparts? speed in terms of
>>> writing and solving mathematical and scientific material, questions
>>> and problem sets.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Best Regards
>>> Bhavya Shah
>>>
>>> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons:
>>> https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>>>
>>> Contacting Me
>>> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125 at gmail.com
>>> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bhavyashah125/
>>> Twitter: @BhavyaShah125
>>> Skype: bhavya.09
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindMath mailing list
>>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> BlindMath:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sabra
>>> 1023%40gmail.com
>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/b
>>> lindmath-gems-home>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindMath mailing list
>>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> BlindMath:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/jaquis%40mac.c
>>> om BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/b
>>> lindmath-gems-home>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindMath mailing list
>>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> BlindMath:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/brand
>>> onkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/b
>>> lindmath-gems-home>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindMath mailing list
>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindMath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/bhavya.shah125%
>> 40gmail.com
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>
>
>
> --
> Best Regards
> Bhavya Shah
>
> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>
> Contacting Me
> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125 at gmail.com
> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bhavyashah125/
> Twitter: @BhavyaShah125
> Skype: bhavya.09
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindMath mailing list
> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindMath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/a.j.godfrey%40massey.ac.nz
> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 3 May 2018 21:18:36 +0000
> From: "Godfrey, Jonathan" <A.J.Godfrey at massey.ac.nz>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> 	<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Typing Math and Science Quickly and
> 	Understandably
> Message-ID:
> 	<SY3PR01MB20608F2750E51090D77433C293870 at SY3PR01MB2060.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
> 	
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I quite obviously disagree with Lucasz's statement that markdown is more
> efficient than MS Word for note-taking.
>
> They can be totally equivalent in that the content of the markdown document
> can be copy and pasted into a MS Word document and converted to quite
> readable content as quickly inside Word.
>
> In fact, I can see how a good MS Word user who knows the necessary
> keystrokes could get to the same endpoint in about the same time.
>
> Different solutions will work better for different people. I think that
> outright statements are risky at best and are often leading people astray.
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Lukasz Grabowski
> via BlindMath
> Sent: Friday, 4 May 2018 9:00 a.m.
> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
> Cc: Lukasz Grabowski <graboluk at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Typing Math and Science Quickly and Understandably
>
> Hello,
>
> Yes I can confirm it is fundamentally incorrect, to say the least ("not even
> wrong", as the saying goes). In order to understand that it is so, you would
> have to compare both methods at, say,  taking notes for an advanced
> university-level mathematics course, in which case you would realize that
> the efficiency of using markdown with latex is orders of magnitude higher
> than using word with mathtype.
>
>
> Best,
> Lukasz
>
> 		
>
> On Fri, 4 May 2018 01:35:01 +0530
> Bhavya shah via BlindMath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi Brandon,
>>
>> In essence, this method is very similar to how I used to use LaTeX of
>> MathType to generate Math ML content that was visually readible and
>> screen reader firnedly with the help of NVDA and Math Player. However,
>> my only two concerns are that using LaTeX or any other standardized
>> Math code to type would almost invariably mean (1) slightly longer and
>> stricter syntax that would need to be mandatorily followed, and (2)
>> there are several reasons, some of which include lack of customization
>> in pronunciation and excessive pausing, why I found reading Math ML
>> with the help of Math Player and NVDA somewhat cumbersome in my past
>> experiences. If I come to think of it, it is quite certain that at
>> some point in time, either for typing my own Math&Science or for
>> reading my transcribed course material, I will need to deal with Math
>> ML using Math Player and NVDA, so in a day at most, I will be retrying
>> Math ML and sharing some of the more significant concerns and issues I
>> have with interacting with Math ML.
>>
>> Kindly let me know if my present understanding of the method you
>> described that this is just Pandoc instead of MathType and commandline
>> instead of Word for using LaTeX to generate Math ML content is
>> fundamentally incorrect.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> On 5/3/18, Brandon Keith Biggs via BlindMath <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>> > Hello,
>> > Markdown with LaTeX is perfect for you. Here is an example that
>> > Lukasz (from this list wrote):
>> >
>> > ## Parametric Forms
>> >
>> > *transcriber: system of two equations, each one has an extra
>> > information after comma* \ $x = t^2 -2t$, $dx = 2t-2$ \ $y= t+1$,
>> > minimum at $t=1$ \
>> > *transcriber: end of the system*
>> >
>> > For window:
>> > \
>> > $t$ from $[-2,4]$, $t$ step $= 0.1$
>> > \
>> > $x$ from $[-1,10]$
>> > \
>> > $y$ from $[-1,5]$
>> >
>> > # something easier
>> >
>> > $3x + y = 10$
>> > \
>> > $9 * 5 = 45$
>> > \
>> > Fractions
>> > \
>> > $\frac{1}{2} + \frac{1}{2} = 1$
>> >
>> >
>> > This converts perfectly to MathML using pandoc:
>> > https://pandoc.org/
>> >
>> > You install pandoc, open a command line where you have the math
>> > content and type:
>> >
>> > pandoc my_math_file.md --mathml -s -o my_html_output_file.html
>> >
>> > You can give your professor the html file and they can read it in
>> > print just fine. If you have a Braille display, the MathML shows up
>> > just fine and it is also read by the screen reader. NVDA requires
>> > Math player (see the user guide under reading math content for more
>> > info). Thanks,
>> >
>> >
>> > Brandon Keith Biggs <http://brandonkeithbiggs.com/>
>> >
>> > On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 11:00 AM, Sean Tikkun via BlindMath <
>> > blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Bhavya Shah,
>> >>
>> >>    I am assembling a team to generate 3D models to assist in
>> >> learning. The team leaders are a former math teacher fluent in
>> >> Braille (me) and a Fabrication lab director that teaches Biological
>> >> and Chemical Sciences at the University level. If you have access
>> >> to 3D printing I would love to know what you may need.
>> >> Files are easy to send. If not, perhaps there is a fabrication lab
>> >> at a university in Mumbai that would be interested in some
>> >> collaboration? Feel free to reach out. stikkun at nccu.edu.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Sean Tikkun
>> >> Apple Distinguished Educator
>> >> class of 2007
>> >>
>> >> On May 01, 2018, at 08:51 PM, Sabra Ewing via BlindMath <
>> >> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I typed most of my math using the first method. You might be able
>> >> to type more quickly if you had a braille keyboard. Also note that
>> >> you can use parentheses and brackets. The Pearce in equation editor
>> >> can produce math in a visual format. It is free. The braille note
>> >> touch can do this as well although it is very expensive. I would
>> >> definitely say to use a keyboard. Do not type on your phone as I am
>> >> doing now because it is much slower.
>> >> Another
>> >> thing you can do is use copy and paste. You do not have to type
>> >> everything from scratch. You can copy previous steps to your
>> >> clipboard, paste them, and then modify them to create your future
>> >> steps. Like for example, you might write a chemical equation that
>> >> is not balanced. Paste this equation underneath it so you have two
>> >> copies of the same equation. Then, take the first step toward
>> >> balancing that equation and make those changes to your second copy.
>> >> Now you have your equation and underneath it, you have the modified
>> >> version with step one completed, so copied the version with step
>> >> one completed to your clipboard and paste it underneath.
>> >> Now you have the original equation, and you have two copies of step
>> >> one. Modified the second copy of step one based on what you plan to
>> >> do in step two. Continue this method until you have finished the
>> >> problem. With a braille keyboard, you should be able to type as
>> >> fast as someone can speak and even faster. If you cannot or a
>> >> braille keyboard is not an option, you can record what is being
>> >> said with a phone or other recording device and you can then go
>> >> back over it. Another thing you can do is request things in
>> >> electronic format. Mini American professors do not know how to
>> >> create accessible math when it is really very easy as you
>> >> described. You do not have to know any markup languages. You can
>> >> create accessible math just by using your computer keyboard, and in
>> >> many cases, if you are a computer science student, your math is in
>> >> the perfect format to just paste right over into your ide. Maybe
>> >> Indian professors would be better at creating accessible. If not,
>> >> you might be able to find someone who can do it. This will be
>> >> especially easy if you can find some funding. I was not lucky in
>> >> this regard because other than professors, I never found a
>> >> dedicated person who knew how to produce accessible math. I finally
>> >> got to a position where I could no longer receive accessible math
>> >> because I moved on to a four-year university where the professors
>> >> did not know how to produce it. It is very ironic that when I
>> >> started out at a two year university, the professors did know how
>> >> to produce it. I approach programmers, professors, deans, and
>> >> department head.
>> >> No one actually knew how including the programmers who produce
>> >> accessible math every day. I finally had to end up listening to my
>> >> math on recordings and writing everything down. It was very
>> >> difficult. If you want to get math in braille, there is software
>> >> that can do it called Duxberry.
>> >> Ironically, my university actually had this software, but no one
>> >> knew how to use it including the people who worked at disability
>> >> services. Getting it for yourself will not be helpful. If you get
>> >> this software, you will need someone who can modify the equations
>> >> for you. If your professor has files that were generated from a
>> >> markup language, you could try asking for those source files. Even
>> >> if you do not know the markup language, math is written very
>> >> similarly when you are programming computers, so you could probably
>> >> pick up how to read it. Unfortunately, my professors used PDFs that
>> >> they got from other sources or pictures of hand written documents
>> >> so I could not do this. People will try to tell you that Matt
>> >> cannot be produced excessively on the computer. This simply is not
>> >> true. Every mathematical formula, function, and number known to
>> >> humankind can be programmed into a computer using a text based
>> >> programming language. Also, many of these functions and formulas
>> >> can be put into XL. If you can put these formulas into XL, then you
>> >> can produce them accessibly in a word document. If someone is
>> >> trying to tell you that they can't, then just tell them to put it
>> >> in a spreadsheet, press F2 on the cells, and read the formulas that
>> >> way. XL is very good because you can use it to organize data, you
>> >> can use it as a calculator, and you can use it to create tables and
>> >> graphs. You can put these documents in your dropbox and you can get
>> >> the pictures of the graphs.
>> >> You can then import these pictures into the voice app on your phone
>> >> and you can listen to them. If you are going to listen to pie
>> >> charts, to make it easier on yourself to read, use the 3-D
>> >> exploding pie charts. This may sound counterintuitive, but when you
>> >> listen to them, there is a bit more separation between each piece.
>> >> I don't know how you would get training to listen to grass. I just
>> >> automatically was born knowing how to do it. No one ever taught me.
>> >> I could always listen to graphs very easily and I could never read
>> >> tactile graphics. There is also a program called math tracks where
>> >> you can create audio graphs by entering in equations.However, it is
>> >> really best to have both the equation and the data because what if
>> >> you created a graph using any equation, and you need to make some
>> >> changes to the data? Well, you don't have the data, so what are you
>> >> going to do? You could probably generate the data from the equation
>> >> in some cases, but that will take forever. I like to listen to a
>> >> graph and have the spreadsheet in front of me at the same time.
>> >> There is also a blind chemist named Dr. sapalo. I'm not sure how to
>> >> spell his name. I have his card somewhere but I just have to find
>> >> it. I really wish people would start using those barcode Cards
>> >> where I can scan the contact information into my phone, but I only
>> >> know one person who uses those. Anyways, You may want to get in
>> >> touch with him. He has all of these probes. They do all different
>> >> things. They connect to a computer and they can measure chemical
>> >> reactions and make graphs and do all this stuff depending on what
>> >> probe you use. For example, you could use one probe to graph the
>> >> color changes that occur during an experiment. You could use
>> >> another probe to track temperature changes like ice melting. I
>> >> don't really do chemistry, but if I did, I imagine I would want
>> >> this thing, but I can't remember what it is called. But he is
>> >> actually a chemistry professor at a university. He is totally blind
>> >> and he teaches classes and runs labs and does all sorts of things.
>> >> There are plenty of blind computer scientists, but he struck my
>> >> interest in particular because I have not heard of mini blind
>> >> chemists. He also had some good advice for 3-D printing that would
>> >> work in the United States, but I am not sure if it would work in
>> >> India. If possible though, you may want to get some 3-D models
>> >> printed.
>> >> Another thing is that you want to stay consistent. You want to make
>> >> sure that you are doing things in the classroom the same way you
>> >> will do them during testing. In my chemistry class, I did not have
>> >> access to a lot of 3-D models, but for testing purposes, they made
>> >> me a 3-D model. This really was not fair because it was made out of
>> >> a lot of cups and straws. I did not know what it was, and it is not
>> >> fair to use models for testing purposes that you did not use in the
>> >> classroom or to use a different method for testing purposes that
>> >> you did not use in the classroom because this will skew the
>> >> results. If you use certain accommodations in the classroom, insist
>> >> on the same accommodations for testing.
>> >>
>> >> Sabra Ewing
>> >>
>> >> On May 1, 2018, at 5:22 PM, Bhavya shah via BlindMath <
>> >> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Dear all,
>> >>
>> >> I am Bhavya Shah, a totally blind 16-year-old student from Mumbai,
>> >> India. Having just completed my tenth grade with the same
>> >> Mathematics and Science syllabus as my sighted peers in a
>> >> mainstream school, I intend to take up the Science stream according
>> >> to the Indian education system for Classes 11 and 12 with the
>> >> subject combination of Physics+Chemistry+Mathematics, and probably
>> >> take up something along the lines of Computer Science for my
>> >> undergraduate studies after that (although I shouldn?t overly worry
>> >> about about finalizing that for now, I suppose).
>> >> Additionally, I shall be enrolling into coaching for a very
>> >> competitive pan-India engineering entrance examination over the
>> >> next two years where I will be delving into particularly advanced
>> >> topics in to the three afore-mentioned subjects.
>> >>
>> >> Till Class 10, I managed an overwhelming chunk of Math either
>> >> orally or mentally, and from what I have been informed, have dealt
>> >> with relatively very simple organic structures, general numericals
>> >> and chemical equations which I have been handling mostly via plain
>> >> text. It has become increasingly clear to me that this makeshift
>> >> method will be extremely inefficient and consequently infeasible
>> >> for the kind of syllabus I am transitioning to. Hence, I am looking
>> >> for different techniques, tools or methods of typing Math and
>> >> Science that will allow me to be as rapid a Math&Science typist as
>> >> I am of the English language (at its peak, my fingers have achieved
>> >> about 100 WPM) so that I can cope with the daily rigor this
>> >> coaching demands. I need to be able to type mathematical and
>> >> scientific content accurately and swiftly not necessarily such that
>> >> it is visually readable by a sighted professor but more so for my
>> >> own reference, understanding and purposes of review and revision.
>> >>
>> >> So far, I am versed only with two options ? ASCII Math, where I
>> >> would just type Math and Science using standard symbols present on
>> >> any keyboard such as /, *, ^ and so on to denote different things
>> >> (perhaps (x+2)/x-1)) in chiefly plain text, or type things in LaTeX
>> >> using MathType ($\frac{x+2}{x-1}$) and employ Math Player and NVDA
>> >> to read it. From my basic understanding of this and limited past
>> >> experience with each of these methods, the former sounds much
>> >> faster and more efficient to me, but I am open to evidence and
>> >> experiences suggesting otherwise. There are various other Math
>> >> typing tools I have heard about over the years such as Infty Reader
>> >> and Lean Math, but have never adequately researched them let alone
>> >> used them to any extent. Any information or instructional material
>> >> on these and other potential alternatives you would recommend would
>> >> be of great help too.
>> >>
>> >> I would truly appreciate any assistance on different strategies you
>> >> may have used to math your sighted counterparts? speed in terms of
>> >> writing and solving mathematical and scientific material, questions
>> >> and problem sets.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Best Regards
>> >> Bhavya Shah
>> >>
>> >> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons:
>> >> https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>> >>
>> >> Contacting Me
>> >> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125 at gmail.com
>> >> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bhavyashah125/
>> >> Twitter: @BhavyaShah125
>> >> Skype: bhavya.09
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> BlindMath mailing list
>> >> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> >> for BlindMath:
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sabra
>> >> 1023%40gmail.com
>> >> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/b
>> >> lindmath-gems-home>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> BlindMath mailing list
>> >> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> >> for BlindMath:
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/jaquis%40mac
>> >> .com BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/b
>> >> lindmath-gems-home>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> BlindMath mailing list
>> >> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> >> for BlindMath:
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/brand
>> >> onkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>> >> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/b
>> >> lindmath-gems-home>
>> >>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > BlindMath mailing list
>> > BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> > for BlindMath:
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>> > 5%40gmail.com
>> > BlindMath Gems can be found at
>> > <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 3 May 2018 22:47:55 +0100
> From: Lukasz Grabowski <graboluk at gmail.com>
> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Typing Math and Science Quickly and
> 	Understandably
> Message-ID: <20180503224755.72670409 at demokritos>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Jonathan,
>
> Your statement about comparable efficiency is, in my humble
> opinion of a professional pure mathematicians with many years of
> experience at lecturing, research, taking notes, etc., completely
> false. While we will not settle it here directly, a strong indirect
> argument is that if they were of comparable efficiency then more
> professional mathematicians would use it for preparing lecture notes,
> articles, etc. As I'm sure you know, the amount of professional pure
> mathematicians using word is absolutely negligible (to the extent that
> people who use it are subjects of anecdotes passed around during
> conference dinners, etc.).
>
> As for specifically taking notes in pure maths lectures, I have
> absolutely never seen anyone who'd use word for this purpose, only
> either latex or markdown.
>
> (There are also of course other issues, of interoperability and so on,
> which are also important, and if one consider these, then obviously
> using word for anything at all is, for lack of a better word,
> irresponsible)
>
> Best,
> Lukasz
>
> P.S. As for usage of \ in markdown, I can't agree with you: the example
> of Brandon was a transcription, and it was mildly important to
> distinguish between newlines and paragraphs. But even in markdown
> for say taking notes, if you want to produce material which works both
> for you and for sighted users then the cleanest way to write say
> multiline equation is with explicit \
>
> On Thu, 3 May 2018 21:18:36 +0000
> "Godfrey, Jonathan via BlindMath" <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
>> I quite obviously disagree with Lucasz's statement that markdown is
>> more efficient than MS Word for note-taking.
>>
>> They can be totally equivalent in that the content of the markdown
>> document can be copy and pasted into a MS Word document and converted
>> to quite readable content as quickly inside Word.
>>
>> In fact, I can see how a good MS Word user who knows the necessary
>> keystrokes could get to the same endpoint in about the same time.
>>
>> Different solutions will work better for different people. I think
>> that outright statements are risky at best and are often leading
>> people astray.
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Lukasz
>> Grabowski via BlindMath Sent: Friday, 4 May 2018 9:00 a.m.
>> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> Cc: Lukasz Grabowski <graboluk at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Typing Math and Science Quickly and
>> Understandably
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Yes I can confirm it is fundamentally incorrect, to say the least
>> ("not even wrong", as the saying goes). In order to understand that
>> it is so, you would have to compare both methods at, say,  taking
>> notes for an advanced university-level mathematics course, in which
>> case you would realize that the efficiency of using markdown with
>> latex is orders of magnitude higher than using word with mathtype.
>>
>>
>> Best,
>> Lukasz
>>
>> 		
>>
>> On Fri, 4 May 2018 01:35:01 +0530
>> Bhavya shah via BlindMath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Brandon,
>> >
>> > In essence, this method is very similar to how I used to use LaTeX
>> > of MathType to generate Math ML content that was visually readible
>> > and screen reader firnedly with the help of NVDA and Math Player.
>> > However, my only two concerns are that using LaTeX or any other
>> > standardized Math code to type would almost invariably mean (1)
>> > slightly longer and stricter syntax that would need to be
>> > mandatorily followed, and (2) there are several reasons, some of
>> > which include lack of customization in pronunciation and excessive
>> > pausing, why I found reading Math ML with the help of Math Player
>> > and NVDA somewhat cumbersome in my past experiences. If I come to
>> > think of it, it is quite certain that at some point in time, either
>> > for typing my own Math&Science or for reading my transcribed course
>> > material, I will need to deal with Math ML using Math Player and
>> > NVDA, so in a day at most, I will be retrying Math ML and sharing
>> > some of the more significant concerns and issues I have with
>> > interacting with Math ML.
>> >
>> > Kindly let me know if my present understanding of the method you
>> > described that this is just Pandoc instead of MathType and
>> > commandline instead of Word for using LaTeX to generate Math ML
>> > content is fundamentally incorrect.
>> >
>> > Thanks.
>> >
>> > On 5/3/18, Brandon Keith Biggs via BlindMath <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>> > wrote:
>> > > Hello,
>> > > Markdown with LaTeX is perfect for you. Here is an example that
>> > > Lukasz (from this list wrote):
>> > >
>> > > ## Parametric Forms
>> > >
>> > > *transcriber: system of two equations, each one has an extra
>> > > information after comma* \ $x = t^2 -2t$, $dx = 2t-2$ \ $y= t+1$,
>> > > minimum at $t=1$ \
>> > > *transcriber: end of the system*
>> > >
>> > > For window:
>> > > \
>> > > $t$ from $[-2,4]$, $t$ step $= 0.1$
>> > > \
>> > > $x$ from $[-1,10]$
>> > > \
>> > > $y$ from $[-1,5]$
>> > >
>> > > # something easier
>> > >
>> > > $3x + y = 10$
>> > > \
>> > > $9 * 5 = 45$
>> > > \
>> > > Fractions
>> > > \
>> > > $\frac{1}{2} + \frac{1}{2} = 1$
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > This converts perfectly to MathML using pandoc:
>> > > https://pandoc.org/
>> > >
>> > > You install pandoc, open a command line where you have the math
>> > > content and type:
>> > >
>> > > pandoc my_math_file.md --mathml -s -o my_html_output_file.html
>> > >
>> > > You can give your professor the html file and they can read it in
>> > > print just fine. If you have a Braille display, the MathML shows
>> > > up just fine and it is also read by the screen reader. NVDA
>> > > requires Math player (see the user guide under reading math
>> > > content for more info). Thanks,
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Brandon Keith Biggs <http://brandonkeithbiggs.com/>
>> > >
>> > > On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 11:00 AM, Sean Tikkun via BlindMath <
>> > > blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> Bhavya Shah,
>> > >>
>> > >>    I am assembling a team to generate 3D models to assist in
>> > >> learning. The team leaders are a former math teacher fluent in
>> > >> Braille (me) and a Fabrication lab director that teaches
>> > >> Biological and Chemical Sciences at the University level. If you
>> > >> have access to 3D printing I would love to know what you may
>> > >> need. Files are easy to send. If not, perhaps there is a
>> > >> fabrication lab at a university in Mumbai that would be
>> > >> interested in some collaboration? Feel free to reach out.
>> > >> stikkun at nccu.edu.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Sean Tikkun
>> > >> Apple Distinguished Educator
>> > >> class of 2007
>> > >>
>> > >> On May 01, 2018, at 08:51 PM, Sabra Ewing via BlindMath <
>> > >> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> I typed most of my math using the first method. You might be
>> > >> able to type more quickly if you had a braille keyboard. Also
>> > >> note that you can use parentheses and brackets. The Pearce in
>> > >> equation editor can produce math in a visual format. It is free.
>> > >> The braille note touch can do this as well although it is very
>> > >> expensive. I would definitely say to use a keyboard. Do not type
>> > >> on your phone as I am doing now because it is much slower.
>> > >> Another
>> > >> thing you can do is use copy and paste. You do not have to type
>> > >> everything from scratch. You can copy previous steps to your
>> > >> clipboard, paste them, and then modify them to create your
>> > >> future steps. Like for example, you might write a chemical
>> > >> equation that is not balanced. Paste this equation underneath it
>> > >> so you have two copies of the same equation. Then, take the
>> > >> first step toward balancing that equation and make those changes
>> > >> to your second copy. Now you have your equation and underneath
>> > >> it, you have the modified version with step one completed, so
>> > >> copied the version with step one completed to your clipboard and
>> > >> paste it underneath. Now you have the original equation, and you
>> > >> have two copies of step one. Modified the second copy of step
>> > >> one based on what you plan to do in step two. Continue this
>> > >> method until you have finished the problem. With a braille
>> > >> keyboard, you should be able to type as fast as someone can
>> > >> speak and even faster. If you cannot or a braille keyboard is
>> > >> not an option, you can record what is being said with a phone or
>> > >> other recording device and you can then go back over it. Another
>> > >> thing you can do is request things in electronic format. Mini
>> > >> American professors do not know how to create accessible math
>> > >> when it is really very easy as you described. You do not have to
>> > >> know any markup languages. You can create accessible math just
>> > >> by using your computer keyboard, and in many cases, if you are a
>> > >> computer science student, your math is in the perfect format to
>> > >> just paste right over into your ide. Maybe Indian professors
>> > >> would be better at creating accessible. If not, you might be
>> > >> able to find someone who can do it. This will be especially easy
>> > >> if you can find some funding. I was not lucky in this regard
>> > >> because other than professors, I never found a dedicated person
>> > >> who knew how to produce accessible math. I finally got to a
>> > >> position where I could no longer receive accessible math because
>> > >> I moved on to a four-year university where the professors did
>> > >> not know how to produce it. It is very ironic that when I
>> > >> started out at a two year university, the professors did know
>> > >> how to produce it. I approach programmers, professors, deans,
>> > >> and department head. No one actually knew how including the
>> > >> programmers who produce accessible math every day. I finally had
>> > >> to end up listening to my math on recordings and writing
>> > >> everything down. It was very difficult. If you want to get math
>> > >> in braille, there is software that can do it called Duxberry.
>> > >> Ironically, my university actually had this software, but no one
>> > >> knew how to use it including the people who worked at disability
>> > >> services. Getting it for yourself will not be helpful. If you
>> > >> get this software, you will need someone who can modify the
>> > >> equations for you. If your professor has files that were
>> > >> generated from a markup language, you could try asking for those
>> > >> source files. Even if you do not know the markup language, math
>> > >> is written very similarly when you are programming computers, so
>> > >> you could probably pick up how to read it. Unfortunately, my
>> > >> professors used PDFs that they got from other sources or
>> > >> pictures of hand written documents so I could not do this.
>> > >> People will try to tell you that Matt cannot be produced
>> > >> excessively on the computer. This simply is not true. Every
>> > >> mathematical formula, function, and number known to humankind
>> > >> can be programmed into a computer using a text based programming
>> > >> language. Also, many of these functions and formulas can be put
>> > >> into XL. If you can put these formulas into XL, then you can
>> > >> produce them accessibly in a word document. If someone is trying
>> > >> to tell you that they can't, then just tell them to put it in a
>> > >> spreadsheet, press F2 on the cells, and read the formulas that
>> > >> way. XL is very good because you can use it to organize data,
>> > >> you can use it as a calculator, and you can use it to create
>> > >> tables and graphs. You can put these documents in your dropbox
>> > >> and you can get the pictures of the graphs. You can then import
>> > >> these pictures into the voice app on your phone and you can
>> > >> listen to them. If you are going to listen to pie charts, to
>> > >> make it easier on yourself to read, use the 3-D exploding pie
>> > >> charts. This may sound counterintuitive, but when you listen to
>> > >> them, there is a bit more separation between each piece. I don't
>> > >> know how you would get training to listen to grass. I just
>> > >> automatically was born knowing how to do it. No one ever taught
>> > >> me. I could always listen to graphs very easily and I could
>> > >> never read tactile graphics. There is also a program called math
>> > >> tracks where you can create audio graphs by entering in
>> > >> equations.However, it is really best to have both the equation
>> > >> and the data because what if you created a graph using any
>> > >> equation, and you need to make some changes to the data? Well,
>> > >> you don't have the data, so what are you going to do? You could
>> > >> probably generate the data from the equation in some cases, but
>> > >> that will take forever. I like to listen to a graph and have the
>> > >> spreadsheet in front of me at the same time. There is also a
>> > >> blind chemist named Dr. sapalo. I'm not sure how to spell his
>> > >> name. I have his card somewhere but I just have to find it. I
>> > >> really wish people would start using those barcode Cards where I
>> > >> can scan the contact information into my phone, but I only know
>> > >> one person who uses those. Anyways, You may want to get in touch
>> > >> with him. He has all of these probes. They do all different
>> > >> things. They connect to a computer and they can measure chemical
>> > >> reactions and make graphs and do all this stuff depending on
>> > >> what probe you use. For example, you could use one probe to
>> > >> graph the color changes that occur during an experiment. You
>> > >> could use another probe to track temperature changes like ice
>> > >> melting. I don't really do chemistry, but if I did, I imagine I
>> > >> would want this thing, but I can't remember what it is called.
>> > >> But he is actually a chemistry professor at a university. He is
>> > >> totally blind and he teaches classes and runs labs and does all
>> > >> sorts of things. There are plenty of blind computer scientists,
>> > >> but he struck my interest in particular because I have not heard
>> > >> of mini blind chemists. He also had some good advice for 3-D
>> > >> printing that would work in the United States, but I am not sure
>> > >> if it would work in India. If possible though, you may want to
>> > >> get some 3-D models printed. Another thing is that you want to
>> > >> stay consistent. You want to make sure that you are doing things
>> > >> in the classroom the same way you will do them during testing.
>> > >> In my chemistry class, I did not have access to a lot of 3-D
>> > >> models, but for testing purposes, they made me a 3-D model. This
>> > >> really was not fair because it was made out of a lot of cups and
>> > >> straws. I did not know what it was, and it is not fair to use
>> > >> models for testing purposes that you did not use in the
>> > >> classroom or to use a different method for testing purposes that
>> > >> you did not use in the classroom because this will skew the
>> > >> results. If you use certain accommodations in the classroom,
>> > >> insist on the same accommodations for testing.
>> > >>
>> > >> Sabra Ewing
>> > >>
>> > >> On May 1, 2018, at 5:22 PM, Bhavya shah via BlindMath <
>> > >> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> Dear all,
>> > >>
>> > >> I am Bhavya Shah, a totally blind 16-year-old student from
>> > >> Mumbai, India. Having just completed my tenth grade with the
>> > >> same Mathematics and Science syllabus as my sighted peers in a
>> > >> mainstream school, I intend to take up the Science stream
>> > >> according to the Indian education system for Classes 11 and 12
>> > >> with the subject combination of Physics+Chemistry+Mathematics,
>> > >> and probably take up something along the lines of Computer
>> > >> Science for my undergraduate studies after that (although I
>> > >> shouldn?t overly worry about about finalizing that for now, I
>> > >> suppose). Additionally, I shall be enrolling into coaching for a
>> > >> very competitive pan-India engineering entrance examination over
>> > >> the next two years where I will be delving into particularly
>> > >> advanced topics in to the three afore-mentioned subjects.
>> > >>
>> > >> Till Class 10, I managed an overwhelming chunk of Math either
>> > >> orally or mentally, and from what I have been informed, have
>> > >> dealt with relatively very simple organic structures, general
>> > >> numericals and chemical equations which I have been handling
>> > >> mostly via plain text. It has become increasingly clear to me
>> > >> that this makeshift method will be extremely inefficient and
>> > >> consequently infeasible for the kind of syllabus I am
>> > >> transitioning to. Hence, I am looking for different techniques,
>> > >> tools or methods of typing Math and Science that will allow me
>> > >> to be as rapid a Math&Science typist as I am of the English
>> > >> language (at its peak, my fingers have achieved about 100 WPM)
>> > >> so that I can cope with the daily rigor this coaching demands. I
>> > >> need to be able to type mathematical and scientific content
>> > >> accurately and swiftly not necessarily such that it is visually
>> > >> readable by a sighted professor but more so for my own
>> > >> reference, understanding and purposes of review and revision.
>> > >>
>> > >> So far, I am versed only with two options ? ASCII Math, where I
>> > >> would just type Math and Science using standard symbols present
>> > >> on any keyboard such as /, *, ^ and so on to denote different
>> > >> things (perhaps (x+2)/x-1)) in chiefly plain text, or type
>> > >> things in LaTeX using MathType ($\frac{x+2}{x-1}$) and employ
>> > >> Math Player and NVDA to read it. From my basic understanding of
>> > >> this and limited past experience with each of these methods, the
>> > >> former sounds much faster and more efficient to me, but I am
>> > >> open to evidence and experiences suggesting otherwise. There are
>> > >> various other Math typing tools I have heard about over the
>> > >> years such as Infty Reader and Lean Math, but have never
>> > >> adequately researched them let alone used them to any extent.
>> > >> Any information or instructional material on these and other
>> > >> potential alternatives you would recommend would be of great
>> > >> help too.
>> > >>
>> > >> I would truly appreciate any assistance on different strategies
>> > >> you may have used to math your sighted counterparts? speed in
>> > >> terms of writing and solving mathematical and scientific
>> > >> material, questions and problem sets.
>> > >>
>> > >> Thanks.
>> > >>
>> > >> --
>> > >> Best Regards
>> > >> Bhavya Shah
>> > >>
>> > >> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons:
>> > >> https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>> > >>
>> > >> Contacting Me
>> > >> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125 at gmail.com
>> > >> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bhavyashah125/
>> > >> Twitter: @BhavyaShah125
>> > >> Skype: bhavya.09
>> > >>
>> > >> _______________________________________________
>> > >> BlindMath mailing list
>> > >> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> > >> info for BlindMath:
>> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sabra
>> > >> 1023%40gmail.com
>> > >> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/b
>> > >> lindmath-gems-home>
>> > >>
>> > >> _______________________________________________
>> > >> BlindMath mailing list
>> > >> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> > >> info for BlindMath:
>> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/jaquis%40mac
>> > >> .com BlindMath Gems can be found at
>> > >> <http://www.blindscience.org/b lindmath-gems-home>
>> > >> _______________________________________________
>> > >> BlindMath mailing list
>> > >> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> > >> info for BlindMath:
>> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/brand
>> > >> onkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>> > >> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/b
>> > >> lindmath-gems-home>
>> > >>
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > BlindMath mailing list
>> > > BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> > > for BlindMath:
>> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/bhavya.shah12
>> > > 5%40gmail.com
>> > > BlindMath Gems can be found at
>> > > <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindMath mailing list
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>> BlindMath:
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>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>> _______________________________________________ BlindMath mailing
>> list BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org To
>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindMath:
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>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 3 May 2018 15:24:07 -0700
> From: Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> 	<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Typing Math and Science Quickly and
> 	Understandably
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAKAWQkW1VDzc475K5PxNO5a4Cor+ZZNaMpbcf=yZ_3RGk3MOHw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Hello Jonathan,
> Do you have something that explains the least cumbersome syntax for
> Markdown / LaTeX?
> Thanks,
>
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs <http://brandonkeithbiggs.com/>
>
> On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 2:11 PM, Godfrey, Jonathan via BlindMath <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> You are correct that use of LaTeX within a markdown document leads to the
>> same outcome as the workflow you have used in MS Word with MathType. I
>> don't think you should suddenly change workflow for improved access to
>> the
>> mathematical content. There are other reasons why you should get use of
>> pandoc into your toolbox though.
>>
>> I do think Brandon's example is more cumbersome than it needed to be. I
>> use markdown almost daily, and I only ever put a \ to get mathematical
>> content. Forever listening to backslash from any screen reader is
>> annoying,
>> slows me down, and often presents a distraction. This was a leading
>> reason
>> for reducing my use of full-blown LaTeX.
>>
>> I would urge you to make use of the LEAN editor mentioned in this thread
>> to enhance your workflow. The feature of LEAN I use most is the addition
>> of
>> tags to the math content so that you do not need to go backwards and
>> forwards into LaTeX mode to read the content, and you don't have to use
>> the
>> specific combination of tools (screen reader + math player). LEAN offers
>> an
>> alternative and I am not suggesting it as a replacement. Having options
>> is
>> power, because it puts you in control.
>>
>> I do think you need to enhance what you do a little to get the best of
>> what you have now before you embark on all manner of options. I would
>> also
>> suggest to you that the accuracy aspect of your criticism of LaTeX (while
>> true) is also true for practically every tool you will use, and is also
>> true for the scientific content you will be working with. I think your
>> initial message to this thread said you were considering a computer
>> science
>> major; the programming languages you use will have limited flexibility to
>> deal with the human inaccuracies that even the best among us is prone to
>> create. For me, it is the ability to find and correct these inaccuracies
>> that tells me how truly accessible a solution is for me. Markdown is the
>> solution that works best for me today; it is not the only solution I use.
>>
>> My final point is about use of a personal system. I know plenty of blind
>> people who have little shorthand things we write. The problem is that
>> they
>> are individual and can't be shared. The most likely person you will want
>> to
>> share your work with is your future-self. Will you recall the shorthand
>> you
>> use today in ten years' time?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Jonathan
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Bhavya shah
>> via BlindMath
>> Sent: Friday, 4 May 2018 8:05 a.m.
>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <
>> blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Bhavya shah <bhavya.shah125 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Typing Math and Science Quickly and
>> Understandably
>>
>> Hi Brandon,
>>
>> In essence, this method is very similar to how I used to use LaTeX of
>> MathType to generate Math ML content that was visually readible and
>> screen
>> reader firnedly with the help of NVDA and Math Player. However, my only
>> two
>> concerns are that using LaTeX or any other standardized Math code to type
>> would almost invariably mean (1) slightly longer and stricter syntax that
>> would need to be mandatorily followed, and (2) there are several reasons,
>> some of which include lack of customization in pronunciation and
>> excessive
>> pausing, why I found reading Math ML with the help of Math Player and
>> NVDA
>> somewhat cumbersome in my past experiences. If I come to think of it, it
>> is
>> quite certain that at some point in time, either for typing my own
>> Math&Science or for reading my transcribed course material, I will need
>> to
>> deal with Math ML using Math Player and NVDA, so in a day at most, I will
>> be retrying Math ML and sharing some of the more significant concerns and
>> issues I have with interacting with Math ML.
>>
>> Kindly let me know if my present understanding of the method you
>> described
>> that this is just Pandoc instead of MathType and commandline instead of
>> Word for using LaTeX to generate Math ML content is fundamentally
>> incorrect.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> On 5/3/18, Brandon Keith Biggs via BlindMath <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>> > Hello,
>> > Markdown with LaTeX is perfect for you. Here is an example that Lukasz
>> > (from this list wrote):
>> >
>> > ## Parametric Forms
>> >
>> > *transcriber: system of two equations, each one has an extra
>> > information after comma* \ $x = t^2 -2t$, $dx = 2t-2$ \ $y= t+1$,
>> > minimum at $t=1$ \
>> > *transcriber: end of the system*
>> >
>> > For window:
>> > \
>> > $t$ from $[-2,4]$, $t$ step $= 0.1$
>> > \
>> > $x$ from $[-1,10]$
>> > \
>> > $y$ from $[-1,5]$
>> >
>> > # something easier
>> >
>> > $3x + y = 10$
>> > \
>> > $9 * 5 = 45$
>> > \
>> > Fractions
>> > \
>> > $\frac{1}{2} + \frac{1}{2} = 1$
>> >
>> >
>> > This converts perfectly to MathML using pandoc:
>> > https://pandoc.org/
>> >
>> > You install pandoc, open a command line where you have the math
>> > content and
>> > type:
>> >
>> > pandoc my_math_file.md --mathml -s -o my_html_output_file.html
>> >
>> > You can give your professor the html file and they can read it in
>> > print just fine. If you have a Braille display, the MathML shows up
>> > just fine and it is also read by the screen reader. NVDA requires Math
>> > player (see the user guide under reading math content for more info).
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> >
>> > Brandon Keith Biggs <http://brandonkeithbiggs.com/>
>> >
>> > On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 11:00 AM, Sean Tikkun via BlindMath <
>> > blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Bhavya Shah,
>> >>
>> >>    I am assembling a team to generate 3D models to assist in
>> >> learning. The team leaders are a former math teacher fluent in
>> >> Braille (me) and a Fabrication lab director that teaches Biological
>> >> and Chemical Sciences at the University level. If you have access to
>> >> 3D printing I would love to know what you may need. Files are easy to
>> >> send. If not, perhaps there is a fabrication lab at a university in
>> >> Mumbai that would be interested in some collaboration?
>> >>    Feel free to reach out. stikkun at nccu.edu.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Sean Tikkun
>> >> Apple Distinguished Educator
>> >> class of 2007
>> >>
>> >> On May 01, 2018, at 08:51 PM, Sabra Ewing via BlindMath <
>> >> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I typed most of my math using the first method. You might be able to
>> >> type more quickly if you had a braille keyboard. Also note that you
>> >> can use parentheses and brackets. The Pearce in equation editor can
>> >> produce math in a visual format. It is free. The braille note touch
>> >> can do this as well although it is very expensive. I would definitely
>> >> say to use a keyboard.
>> >> Do
>> >> not type on your phone as I am doing now because it is much slower.
>> >> Another
>> >> thing you can do is use copy and paste. You do not have to type
>> >> everything from scratch. You can copy previous steps to your
>> >> clipboard, paste them, and then modify them to create your future
>> >> steps. Like for example, you might write a chemical equation that is
>> >> not balanced. Paste this equation underneath it so you have two
>> >> copies of the same equation. Then, take the first step toward
>> >> balancing that equation and make those changes to your second copy.
>> >> Now you have your equation and underneath it, you have the modified
>> >> version with step one completed, so copied the version with step one
>> >> completed to your clipboard and paste it underneath. Now you have the
>> >> original equation, and you have two copies of step one. Modified the
>> >> second copy of step one based on what you plan to do in step two.
>> >> Continue this method until you have finished the problem. With a
>> >> braille keyboard, you should be able to type as fast as someone can
>> >> speak and even faster. If you cannot or a braille keyboard is not an
>> >> option, you can record what is being said with a phone or other
>> >> recording device and you can then go back over it. Another thing you
>> >> can do is request things in electronic format. Mini American
>> >> professors do not know how to create accessible math when it is
>> >> really very easy as you described. You do not have to know any markup
>> >> languages. You can create accessible math just by using your computer
>> >> keyboard, and in many cases, if you are a computer science student,
>> >> your math is in the perfect format to just paste right over into your
>> ide.
>> >> Maybe
>> >> Indian professors would be better at creating accessible. If not, you
>> >> might be able to find someone who can do it. This will be especially
>> >> easy if you can find some funding. I was not lucky in this regard
>> >> because other than professors, I never found a dedicated person who
>> >> knew how to produce accessible math. I finally got to a position
>> >> where I could no longer receive accessible math because I moved on to
>> >> a four-year university where the professors did not know how to
>> >> produce it. It is very ironic that when I started out at a two year
>> >> university, the professors did know how to produce it. I approach
>> >> programmers, professors, deans, and department head.
>> >> No one actually knew how including the programmers who produce
>> >> accessible math every day. I finally had to end up listening to my
>> >> math on recordings and writing everything down. It was very
>> >> difficult. If you want to get math in braille, there is software that
>> >> can do it called Duxberry. Ironically, my university actually had
>> >> this software, but no one knew how to use it including the people who
>> >> worked at disability services. Getting it for yourself will not be
>> >> helpful. If you get this software, you will need someone who can
>> >> modify the equations for you. If your professor has files that were
>> >> generated from a markup language, you could try asking for those
>> >> source files. Even if you do not know the markup language, math is
>> >> written very similarly when you are programming computers, so you
>> >> could probably pick up how to read it. Unfortunately, my professors
>> >> used PDFs that they got from other sources or pictures of hand
>> >> written documents so I could not do this. People will try to tell you
>> >> that Matt cannot be produced excessively on the computer. This simply
>> >> is not true. Every mathematical formula, function, and number known
>> >> to humankind can be programmed into a computer using a text based
>> >> programming language. Also, many of these functions and formulas can
>> >> be put into XL. If you can put these formulas into XL, then you can
>> >> produce them accessibly in a word document. If someone is trying to
>> >> tell you that they can't, then just tell them to put it in a
>> >> spreadsheet, press F2 on the cells, and read the formulas that way.
>> >> XL is very good because you can use it to organize data, you can use
>> >> it as a calculator, and you can use it to create tables and graphs.
>> >> You can put these documents in your dropbox and you can get the
>> >> pictures of the graphs.
>> >> You can then import these pictures into the voice app on your phone
>> >> and you can listen to them. If you are going to listen to pie charts,
>> >> to make it easier on yourself to read, use the 3-D exploding pie
>> >> charts. This may sound counterintuitive, but when you listen to them,
>> >> there is a bit more separation between each piece. I don't know how
>> >> you would get training to listen to grass. I just automatically was
>> >> born knowing how to do it. No one ever taught me. I could always
>> >> listen to graphs very easily and I could never read tactile graphics.
>> >> There is also a program called math tracks where you can create audio
>> >> graphs by entering in equations.However, it is really best to have
>> >> both the equation and the data because what if you created a graph
>> >> using any equation, and you need to make some changes to the data?
>> >> Well, you don't have the data, so what are you going to do? You could
>> >> probably generate the data from the equation in some cases, but that
>> >> will take forever. I like to listen to a graph and have the
>> >> spreadsheet in front of me at the same time. There is also a blind
>> chemist named Dr.
>> >> sapalo. I'm not sure how to spell his name. I have his card somewhere
>> >> but I just have to find it. I really wish people would start using
>> >> those barcode Cards where I can scan the contact information into my
>> >> phone, but I only know one person who uses those. Anyways, You may
>> >> want to get in touch with him. He has all of these probes. They do
>> >> all different things. They connect to a computer and they can measure
>> >> chemical reactions and make graphs and do all this stuff depending on
>> >> what probe you use. For example, you could use one probe to graph the
>> >> color changes that occur during an experiment.
>> >> You could use another probe to track temperature changes like ice
>> melting.
>> >> I don't really do chemistry, but if I did, I imagine I would want
>> >> this thing, but I can't remember what it is called. But he is
>> >> actually a chemistry professor at a university. He is totally blind
>> >> and he teaches classes and runs labs and does all sorts of things.
>> >> There are plenty of blind computer scientists, but he struck my
>> >> interest in particular because I have not heard of mini blind
>> >> chemists. He also had some good advice for 3-D printing that would
>> >> work in the United States, but I am not sure if it would work in
>> >> India. If possible though, you may want to get some 3-D models
>> >> printed. Another thing is that you want to stay consistent. You want
>> >> to make sure that you are doing things in the classroom the same way
>> >> you will do them during testing. In my chemistry class, I did not
>> >> have access to a lot of 3-D models, but for testing purposes, they
>> >> made me a 3-D model.
>> >> This really was not fair because it was made out of a lot of cups and
>> >> straws. I did not know what it was, and it is not fair to use models
>> >> for testing purposes that you did not use in the classroom or to use
>> >> a different method for testing purposes that you did not use in the
>> >> classroom because this will skew the results. If you use certain
>> >> accommodations in the classroom, insist on the same accommodations
>> >> for testing.
>> >>
>> >> Sabra Ewing
>> >>
>> >> On May 1, 2018, at 5:22 PM, Bhavya shah via BlindMath <
>> >> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Dear all,
>> >>
>> >> I am Bhavya Shah, a totally blind 16-year-old student from Mumbai,
>> >> India. Having just completed my tenth grade with the same Mathematics
>> >> and Science syllabus as my sighted peers in a mainstream school, I
>> >> intend to take up the Science stream according to the Indian
>> >> education system for Classes 11 and 12 with the subject combination
>> >> of
>> >> Physics+Chemistry+Mathematics, and probably take up something along
>> >> the lines of Computer Science for my undergraduate studies after that
>> >> (although I shouldn?t overly worry about about finalizing that for
>> >> now, I suppose). Additionally, I shall be enrolling into coaching for
>> >> a very competitive pan-India engineering entrance examination over
>> >> the next two years where I will be delving into particularly advanced
>> >> topics in to the three afore-mentioned subjects.
>> >>
>> >> Till Class 10, I managed an overwhelming chunk of Math either orally
>> >> or mentally, and from what I have been informed, have dealt with
>> >> relatively very simple organic structures, general numericals and
>> >> chemical equations which I have been handling mostly via plain text.
>> >> It has become increasingly clear to me that this makeshift method
>> >> will be extremely inefficient and consequently infeasible for the
>> >> kind of syllabus I am transitioning to. Hence, I am looking for
>> >> different techniques, tools or methods of typing Math and Science
>> >> that will allow me to be as rapid a Math&Science typist as I am of
>> >> the English language (at its peak, my fingers have achieved about 100
>> >> WPM) so that I can cope with the daily rigor this coaching demands. I
>> >> need to be able to type mathematical and scientific content
>> >> accurately and swiftly not necessarily such that it is visually
>> >> readable by a sighted professor but more so for my own reference,
>> >> understanding and purposes of review and revision.
>> >>
>> >> So far, I am versed only with two options ? ASCII Math, where I would
>> >> just type Math and Science using standard symbols present on any
>> >> keyboard such as /, *, ^ and so on to denote different things
>> >> (perhaps
>> >> (x+2)/x-1)) in chiefly plain text, or type things in LaTeX using
>> >> MathType ($\frac{x+2}{x-1}$) and employ Math Player and NVDA to read
>> >> it. From my basic understanding of this and limited past experience
>> >> with each of these methods, the former sounds much faster and more
>> >> efficient to me, but I am open to evidence and experiences suggesting
>> >> otherwise. There are various other Math typing tools I have heard
>> >> about over the years such as Infty Reader and Lean Math, but have
>> >> never adequately researched them let alone used them to any extent.
>> >> Any information or instructional material on these and other
>> >> potential alternatives you would recommend would be of great help too.
>> >>
>> >> I would truly appreciate any assistance on different strategies you
>> >> may have used to math your sighted counterparts? speed in terms of
>> >> writing and solving mathematical and scientific material, questions
>> >> and problem sets.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Best Regards
>> >> Bhavya Shah
>> >>
>> >> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons:
>> >> https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>> >>
>> >> Contacting Me
>> >> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125 at gmail.com
>> >> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bhavyashah125/
>> >> Twitter: @BhavyaShah125
>> >> Skype: bhavya.09
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> BlindMath mailing list
>> >> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> BlindMath:
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sabra
>> >> 1023%40gmail.com
>> >> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/b
>> >> lindmath-gems-home>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> BlindMath mailing list
>> >> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> BlindMath:
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/jaquis%40mac.c
>> >> om BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/b
>> >> lindmath-gems-home>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> BlindMath mailing list
>> >> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> BlindMath:
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/brand
>> >> onkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>> >> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/b
>> >> lindmath-gems-home>
>> >>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > BlindMath mailing list
>> > BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > BlindMath:
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/bhavya.shah125%
>> > 40gmail.com
>> > BlindMath Gems can be found at
>> > <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Best Regards
>> Bhavya Shah
>>
>> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>>
>> Contacting Me
>> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125 at gmail.com
>> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bhavyashah125/
>> Twitter: @BhavyaShah125
>> Skype: bhavya.09
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindMath mailing list
>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindMath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
>> a.j.godfrey%40massey.ac.nz
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
>> blindmath-gems-home>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindMath mailing list
>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindMath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
>> brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
>> blindmath-gems-home>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Thu, 3 May 2018 23:09:04 +0000
> From: "Godfrey, Jonathan" <A.J.Godfrey at massey.ac.nz>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> 	<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Typing Math and Science Quickly and
> 	Understandably
> Message-ID:
> 	<SY3PR01MB206029A134CB3AB964B3519F93870 at SY3PR01MB2060.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
> 	
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hello,
>
> Lucasz: Let me remind you that this is a list for discussing issues in
> mathematics and related fields with respect to blind people. To suggest that
> the experiences of sighted people should direct a young blind person wanting
> to get into a STEM discipline is flawed unless it addresses the myriad
> access challenges that we face.
>
> As it happens, I am not a mathematician. I accept that an academic
> mathematician who lacks skill in document preparation using LaTeX is often
> the victim of derision, but mathematical content is not just found in
> documents written by mathematicians. All of my colleagues are skilled in
> writing documents using MS Word; most are similarly competent in LaTeX, and
> a small number know they can use markdown, while many others are just
> unaware they could do so if the need arose. As a statistician, I work with
> mathematicians (Fullard et al. 2018), ecologists (Minards et al. 2014;
> Bulgarella et al. 2015; Fitness et al. 2015), agriculturalists (Giltrap and
> Godfrey 2016), medical doctors (Prisk et al. 2016) and even some other
> statisticians (Premarathna et al. 2016;2017). Only the first and last of
> these collaborations was LaTeX based, while the others were MS Word. In all
> the meetings I have ever had for these collaborations, the primary tool for
> note-taking for the sighted people was pen and paper. I am strange in these
> sighted contexts for my use of a laptop.
>
> All my notes for these collaborations are written in text files with content
> easily transferred into the primary author's preferred tool as required. I
> am able to create content for myself and then for sharing without inflicting
> my collaborators with the access issues their preferred tools create for me.
> As it happens, MS Word is the last software tool I would use for writing up
> notes. My advice is not saying that what I do is universally best for
> everyone on this list.
>
> I write from personal experience of a blind person using all the tools that
> get mentioned on this list and others. It is in my best interests as a blind
> person wanting to stay at the top of my game to do so. I have worked with
> numerous blind students over the years who want solutions that are within
> their grasp, not false hopes. I often find myself saying that this is the
> best we can do now, but work in certain areas shows promise. So while I
> might use command line tools all the time, I seldom advise their use by
> young people struggling with the tools they already have because my
> experience shows that most of them do not have any command-line experience,
> and nor do the support people around them. I'd like that to change.
>
> Cheers,
> Jonathan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Lukasz Grabowski
> via BlindMath
> Sent: Friday, 4 May 2018 9:48 a.m.
> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
> Cc: Lukasz Grabowski <graboluk at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Typing Math and Science Quickly and Understandably
>
> Jonathan,
>
> Your statement about comparable efficiency is, in my humble opinion of a
> professional pure mathematicians with many years of experience at lecturing,
> research, taking notes, etc., completely false. While we will not settle it
> here directly, a strong indirect argument is that if they were of comparable
> efficiency then more professional mathematicians would use it for preparing
> lecture notes, articles, etc. As I'm sure you know, the amount of
> professional pure mathematicians using word is absolutely negligible (to the
> extent that people who use it are subjects of anecdotes passed around during
> conference dinners, etc.).
>
> As for specifically taking notes in pure maths lectures, I have absolutely
> never seen anyone who'd use word for this purpose, only either latex or
> markdown.
>
> (There are also of course other issues, of interoperability and so on, which
> are also important, and if one consider these, then obviously using word for
> anything at all is, for lack of a better word,
> irresponsible)
>
> Best,
> Lukasz
>
> P.S. As for usage of \ in markdown, I can't agree with you: the example of
> Brandon was a transcription, and it was mildly important to distinguish
> between newlines and paragraphs. But even in markdown for say taking notes,
> if you want to produce material which works both for you and for sighted
> users then the cleanest way to write say multiline equation is with explicit
> \
>
> On Thu, 3 May 2018 21:18:36 +0000
> "Godfrey, Jonathan via BlindMath" <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
>> I quite obviously disagree with Lucasz's statement that markdown is
>> more efficient than MS Word for note-taking.
>>
>> They can be totally equivalent in that the content of the markdown
>> document can be copy and pasted into a MS Word document and converted
>> to quite readable content as quickly inside Word.
>>
>> In fact, I can see how a good MS Word user who knows the necessary
>> keystrokes could get to the same endpoint in about the same time.
>>
>> Different solutions will work better for different people. I think
>> that outright statements are risky at best and are often leading
>> people astray.
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Lukasz
>> Grabowski via BlindMath Sent: Friday, 4 May 2018 9:00 a.m.
>> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> Cc: Lukasz Grabowski <graboluk at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Typing Math and Science Quickly and
>> Understandably
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Yes I can confirm it is fundamentally incorrect, to say the least
>> ("not even wrong", as the saying goes). In order to understand that it
>> is so, you would have to compare both methods at, say,  taking notes
>> for an advanced university-level mathematics course, in which case you
>> would realize that the efficiency of using markdown with latex is
>> orders of magnitude higher than using word with mathtype.
>>
>>
>> Best,
>> Lukasz
>>
>> 		
>>
>> On Fri, 4 May 2018 01:35:01 +0530
>> Bhavya shah via BlindMath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Brandon,
>> >
>> > In essence, this method is very similar to how I used to use LaTeX
>> > of MathType to generate Math ML content that was visually readible
>> > and screen reader firnedly with the help of NVDA and Math Player.
>> > However, my only two concerns are that using LaTeX or any other
>> > standardized Math code to type would almost invariably mean (1)
>> > slightly longer and stricter syntax that would need to be
>> > mandatorily followed, and (2) there are several reasons, some of
>> > which include lack of customization in pronunciation and excessive
>> > pausing, why I found reading Math ML with the help of Math Player
>> > and NVDA somewhat cumbersome in my past experiences. If I come to
>> > think of it, it is quite certain that at some point in time, either
>> > for typing my own Math&Science or for reading my transcribed course
>> > material, I will need to deal with Math ML using Math Player and
>> > NVDA, so in a day at most, I will be retrying Math ML and sharing
>> > some of the more significant concerns and issues I have with
>> > interacting with Math ML.
>> >
>> > Kindly let me know if my present understanding of the method you
>> > described that this is just Pandoc instead of MathType and
>> > commandline instead of Word for using LaTeX to generate Math ML
>> > content is fundamentally incorrect.
>> >
>> > Thanks.
>> >
>> > On 5/3/18, Brandon Keith Biggs via BlindMath <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>> > wrote:
>> > > Hello,
>> > > Markdown with LaTeX is perfect for you. Here is an example that
>> > > Lukasz (from this list wrote):
>> > >
>> > > ## Parametric Forms
>> > >
>> > > *transcriber: system of two equations, each one has an extra
>> > > information after comma* \ $x = t^2 -2t$, $dx = 2t-2$ \ $y= t+1$,
>> > > minimum at $t=1$ \
>> > > *transcriber: end of the system*
>> > >
>> > > For window:
>> > > \
>> > > $t$ from $[-2,4]$, $t$ step $= 0.1$ \ $x$ from $[-1,10]$ \ $y$
>> > > from $[-1,5]$
>> > >
>> > > # something easier
>> > >
>> > > $3x + y = 10$
>> > > \
>> > > $9 * 5 = 45$
>> > > \
>> > > Fractions
>> > > \
>> > > $\frac{1}{2} + \frac{1}{2} = 1$
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > This converts perfectly to MathML using pandoc:
>> > > https://pandoc.org/
>> > >
>> > > You install pandoc, open a command line where you have the math
>> > > content and type:
>> > >
>> > > pandoc my_math_file.md --mathml -s -o my_html_output_file.html
>> > >
>> > > You can give your professor the html file and they can read it in
>> > > print just fine. If you have a Braille display, the MathML shows
>> > > up just fine and it is also read by the screen reader. NVDA
>> > > requires Math player (see the user guide under reading math
>> > > content for more info). Thanks,
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Brandon Keith Biggs <http://brandonkeithbiggs.com/>
>> > >
>> > > On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 11:00 AM, Sean Tikkun via BlindMath <
>> > > blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> Bhavya Shah,
>> > >>
>> > >>    I am assembling a team to generate 3D models to assist in
>> > >> learning. The team leaders are a former math teacher fluent in
>> > >> Braille (me) and a Fabrication lab director that teaches
>> > >> Biological and Chemical Sciences at the University level. If you
>> > >> have access to 3D printing I would love to know what you may
>> > >> need. Files are easy to send. If not, perhaps there is a
>> > >> fabrication lab at a university in Mumbai that would be
>> > >> interested in some collaboration? Feel free to reach out.
>> > >> stikkun at nccu.edu.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Sean Tikkun
>> > >> Apple Distinguished Educator
>> > >> class of 2007
>> > >>
>> > >> On May 01, 2018, at 08:51 PM, Sabra Ewing via BlindMath <
>> > >> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> I typed most of my math using the first method. You might be able
>> > >> to type more quickly if you had a braille keyboard. Also note
>> > >> that you can use parentheses and brackets. The Pearce in equation
>> > >> editor can produce math in a visual format. It is free.
>> > >> The braille note touch can do this as well although it is very
>> > >> expensive. I would definitely say to use a keyboard. Do not type
>> > >> on your phone as I am doing now because it is much slower.
>> > >> Another
>> > >> thing you can do is use copy and paste. You do not have to type
>> > >> everything from scratch. You can copy previous steps to your
>> > >> clipboard, paste them, and then modify them to create your future
>> > >> steps. Like for example, you might write a chemical equation that
>> > >> is not balanced. Paste this equation underneath it so you have
>> > >> two copies of the same equation. Then, take the first step toward
>> > >> balancing that equation and make those changes to your second
>> > >> copy. Now you have your equation and underneath it, you have the
>> > >> modified version with step one completed, so copied the version
>> > >> with step one completed to your clipboard and paste it
>> > >> underneath. Now you have the original equation, and you have two
>> > >> copies of step one. Modified the second copy of step one based on
>> > >> what you plan to do in step two. Continue this method until you
>> > >> have finished the problem. With a braille keyboard, you should be
>> > >> able to type as fast as someone can speak and even faster. If you
>> > >> cannot or a braille keyboard is not an option, you can record
>> > >> what is being said with a phone or other recording device and you
>> > >> can then go back over it. Another thing you can do is request
>> > >> things in electronic format. Mini American professors do not know
>> > >> how to create accessible math when it is really very easy as you
>> > >> described. You do not have to know any markup languages. You can
>> > >> create accessible math just by using your computer keyboard, and
>> > >> in many cases, if you are a computer science student, your math
>> > >> is in the perfect format to just paste right over into your ide.
>> > >> Maybe Indian professors would be better at creating accessible.
>> > >> If not, you might be able to find someone who can do it. This
>> > >> will be especially easy if you can find some funding. I was not
>> > >> lucky in this regard because other than professors, I never found
>> > >> a dedicated person who knew how to produce accessible math. I
>> > >> finally got to a position where I could no longer receive
>> > >> accessible math because I moved on to a four-year university
>> > >> where the professors did not know how to produce it. It is very
>> > >> ironic that when I started out at a two year university, the
>> > >> professors did know how to produce it. I approach programmers,
>> > >> professors, deans, and department head. No one actually knew how
>> > >> including the programmers who produce accessible math every day.
>> > >> I finally had to end up listening to my math on recordings and
>> > >> writing everything down. It was very difficult. If you want to
>> > >> get math in braille, there is software that can do it called
>> > >> Duxberry.
>> > >> Ironically, my university actually had this software, but no one
>> > >> knew how to use it including the people who worked at disability
>> > >> services. Getting it for yourself will not be helpful. If you get
>> > >> this software, you will need someone who can modify the equations
>> > >> for you. If your professor has files that were generated from a
>> > >> markup language, you could try asking for those source files.
>> > >> Even if you do not know the markup language, math is written very
>> > >> similarly when you are programming computers, so you could
>> > >> probably pick up how to read it. Unfortunately, my professors
>> > >> used PDFs that they got from other sources or pictures of hand
>> > >> written documents so I could not do this.
>> > >> People will try to tell you that Matt cannot be produced
>> > >> excessively on the computer. This simply is not true. Every
>> > >> mathematical formula, function, and number known to humankind can
>> > >> be programmed into a computer using a text based programming
>> > >> language. Also, many of these functions and formulas can be put
>> > >> into XL. If you can put these formulas into XL, then you can
>> > >> produce them accessibly in a word document. If someone is trying
>> > >> to tell you that they can't, then just tell them to put it in a
>> > >> spreadsheet, press F2 on the cells, and read the formulas that
>> > >> way. XL is very good because you can use it to organize data, you
>> > >> can use it as a calculator, and you can use it to create tables
>> > >> and graphs. You can put these documents in your dropbox and you
>> > >> can get the pictures of the graphs. You can then import these
>> > >> pictures into the voice app on your phone and you can listen to
>> > >> them. If you are going to listen to pie charts, to make it easier
>> > >> on yourself to read, use the 3-D exploding pie charts. This may
>> > >> sound counterintuitive, but when you listen to them, there is a
>> > >> bit more separation between each piece. I don't know how you
>> > >> would get training to listen to grass. I just automatically was
>> > >> born knowing how to do it. No one ever taught me. I could always
>> > >> listen to graphs very easily and I could never read tactile
>> > >> graphics. There is also a program called math tracks where you
>> > >> can create audio graphs by entering in equations.However, it is
>> > >> really best to have both the equation and the data because what
>> > >> if you created a graph using any equation, and you need to make
>> > >> some changes to the data? Well, you don't have the data, so what
>> > >> are you going to do? You could probably generate the data from
>> > >> the equation in some cases, but that will take forever. I like to
>> > >> listen to a graph and have the spreadsheet in front of me at the
>> > >> same time. There is also a blind chemist named Dr. sapalo. I'm
>> > >> not sure how to spell his name. I have his card somewhere but I
>> > >> just have to find it. I really wish people would start using
>> > >> those barcode Cards where I can scan the contact information into
>> > >> my phone, but I only know one person who uses those. Anyways, You
>> > >> may want to get in touch with him. He has all of these probes.
>> > >> They do all different things. They connect to a computer and they
>> > >> can measure chemical reactions and make graphs and do all this
>> > >> stuff depending on what probe you use. For example, you could use
>> > >> one probe to graph the color changes that occur during an
>> > >> experiment. You could use another probe to track temperature
>> > >> changes like ice melting. I don't really do chemistry, but if I
>> > >> did, I imagine I would want this thing, but I can't remember what
>> > >> it is called.
>> > >> But he is actually a chemistry professor at a university. He is
>> > >> totally blind and he teaches classes and runs labs and does all
>> > >> sorts of things. There are plenty of blind computer scientists,
>> > >> but he struck my interest in particular because I have not heard
>> > >> of mini blind chemists. He also had some good advice for 3-D
>> > >> printing that would work in the United States, but I am not sure
>> > >> if it would work in India. If possible though, you may want to
>> > >> get some 3-D models printed. Another thing is that you want to
>> > >> stay consistent. You want to make sure that you are doing things
>> > >> in the classroom the same way you will do them during testing.
>> > >> In my chemistry class, I did not have access to a lot of 3-D
>> > >> models, but for testing purposes, they made me a 3-D model. This
>> > >> really was not fair because it was made out of a lot of cups and
>> > >> straws. I did not know what it was, and it is not fair to use
>> > >> models for testing purposes that you did not use in the classroom
>> > >> or to use a different method for testing purposes that you did
>> > >> not use in the classroom because this will skew the results. If
>> > >> you use certain accommodations in the classroom, insist on the
>> > >> same accommodations for testing.
>> > >>
>> > >> Sabra Ewing
>> > >>
>> > >> On May 1, 2018, at 5:22 PM, Bhavya shah via BlindMath <
>> > >> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> Dear all,
>> > >>
>> > >> I am Bhavya Shah, a totally blind 16-year-old student from
>> > >> Mumbai, India. Having just completed my tenth grade with the same
>> > >> Mathematics and Science syllabus as my sighted peers in a
>> > >> mainstream school, I intend to take up the Science stream
>> > >> according to the Indian education system for Classes 11 and 12
>> > >> with the subject combination of Physics+Chemistry+Mathematics,
>> > >> and probably take up something along the lines of Computer
>> > >> Science for my undergraduate studies after that (although I
>> > >> shouldn?t overly worry about about finalizing that for now, I
>> > >> suppose). Additionally, I shall be enrolling into coaching for a
>> > >> very competitive pan-India engineering entrance examination over
>> > >> the next two years where I will be delving into particularly
>> > >> advanced topics in to the three afore-mentioned subjects.
>> > >>
>> > >> Till Class 10, I managed an overwhelming chunk of Math either
>> > >> orally or mentally, and from what I have been informed, have
>> > >> dealt with relatively very simple organic structures, general
>> > >> numericals and chemical equations which I have been handling
>> > >> mostly via plain text. It has become increasingly clear to me
>> > >> that this makeshift method will be extremely inefficient and
>> > >> consequently infeasible for the kind of syllabus I am
>> > >> transitioning to. Hence, I am looking for different techniques,
>> > >> tools or methods of typing Math and Science that will allow me to
>> > >> be as rapid a Math&Science typist as I am of the English language
>> > >> (at its peak, my fingers have achieved about 100 WPM) so that I
>> > >> can cope with the daily rigor this coaching demands. I need to be
>> > >> able to type mathematical and scientific content accurately and
>> > >> swiftly not necessarily such that it is visually readable by a
>> > >> sighted professor but more so for my own reference, understanding
>> > >> and purposes of review and revision.
>> > >>
>> > >> So far, I am versed only with two options ? ASCII Math, where I
>> > >> would just type Math and Science using standard symbols present
>> > >> on any keyboard such as /, *, ^ and so on to denote different
>> > >> things (perhaps (x+2)/x-1)) in chiefly plain text, or type things
>> > >> in LaTeX using MathType ($\frac{x+2}{x-1}$) and employ Math
>> > >> Player and NVDA to read it. From my basic understanding of this
>> > >> and limited past experience with each of these methods, the
>> > >> former sounds much faster and more efficient to me, but I am open
>> > >> to evidence and experiences suggesting otherwise. There are
>> > >> various other Math typing tools I have heard about over the years
>> > >> such as Infty Reader and Lean Math, but have never adequately
>> > >> researched them let alone used them to any extent.
>> > >> Any information or instructional material on these and other
>> > >> potential alternatives you would recommend would be of great help
>> > >> too.
>> > >>
>> > >> I would truly appreciate any assistance on different strategies
>> > >> you may have used to math your sighted counterparts? speed in
>> > >> terms of writing and solving mathematical and scientific
>> > >> material, questions and problem sets.
>> > >>
>> > >> Thanks.
>> > >>
>> > >> --
>> > >> Best Regards
>> > >> Bhavya Shah
>> > >>
>> > >> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons:
>> > >> https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/
>> > >>
>> > >> Contacting Me
>> > >> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125 at gmail.com
>> > >> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bhavyashah125/
>> > >> Twitter: @BhavyaShah125
>> > >> Skype: bhavya.09
>> > >>
>> > >> _______________________________________________
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>> > >> for BlindMath:
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>> > >> 1023%40gmail.com
>> > >> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/b
>> > >> lindmath-gems-home>
>> > >>
>> > >> _______________________________________________
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>> > >>
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>> > > for BlindMath:
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>> >
>> >
>>
>>
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> ------------------------------
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> End of BlindMath Digest, Vol 142, Issue 4
> *****************************************
>