[BlindMath] [blindmath at nfbnet.org: Re: TeX accessibility project]

Mon May 28 17:33:11 UTC 2018

Hi,
If it's helpful, I can take a look as well. I'm running NVDA 2018.1.1 and JAWS 17.
HTH,
Sarah

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindMath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs via BlindMath
Sent: May 28, 2018 4:58 AM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
Cc: Brandon Keith Biggs; Ross Moore; Boris Veytsman
Subject: Re: [BlindMath] [blindmath at nfbnet.org: Re: TeX accessibility project]

Hello,
For the Math content, I don't think NVDA supports alt text for the math. If
it is a standard, then a bug needs to be opened on NVDA's Github repo. At
the moment, I just see spaces where the math should be.
BTW, NVDA has something called "developer console" where sighted users can
go into tools and turn on the console. Then they can see visually what the
screen reader sees.

For the link, it looks like this would in HTML:
<a href="http://example.com"></a>
NVDA just reads "link" without saying what that link is. The tag is correct
though.
It would be better if the tag had text inside such as:
<a href="http://example.com">Example website</a>
Then NVDA will read: "link example website".

The comments about pdflatex are general and I did not see any of the space
removal in the PDFs that were generated.
Would you like me to review all the accessible PDFs on
https://tug.org/twg/accessibility/
I don't want to review something that is still mostly not working. Those
two PDFs were the only two I looked at.
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs <http://brandonkeithbiggs.com/>

On Sun, May 27, 2018 at 9:12 PM, Ross Moore via BlindMath <
blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Hi Boris, and Brandon,
>
> On May 28, 2018, at 7:58 AM, Boris Veytsman <borisv at lk.net<mailto:borisv@
> lk.net>> wrote:
>
> Hi, Ross
>
> here are some comments from blindmath list. I wonder whether you
> might want to subscribe!
>
> Yes.
> I signed up this morning.
>
>
>
> From: Brandon Keith Biggs via BlindMath <blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:b
> lindmath at nfbnet.org>>
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] TeX accessibility project
> Date: May 28, 2018 at 7:28:03 AM GMT+10
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org>>
> Cc: Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com<mailto:
> brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>>
> Reply-To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org>>
>
>
> Hello Boris,
> This needs to happen so bad thank you for starting!
> A couple comments:
> 1. Using NVDA with MathPlayer, I was not able to read the math content in:
> https://www.maths.mq.edu.au/~ross/TaggedPDF/Week13-2017-with-solutions.pdf
>
> The mathematics here is not tagged for MathML, so doesn’t use MathPlayer
> to the
> extent that is possible.
> Instead, there is  /Alt  text, that is meant to be the substitute for the
> PDF content
> of the mathematical expressions.
> That  /Alt  text should be the actual LaTeX source coding, in most cases.
>
> This document is compliant with the  PDF/UA-1 standard.
> Generating MathML tagging is a much harder problem,
> and not required unless PDF/UA-2 conformance is desired, with PDF 2.0.
> We are not aiming for this latter compliance yet, though that will be an
> aim for the future.
>
>
> 2. The model PDF:
> https://www.maths.mq.edu.au/~ross/TaggedPDF/AustMS-2017-poster-UA.pdf
> Has a link that is blank.
>
> Sorry, I don’t know what you mean by a “blank” link here.
> There are meant to be 2 hyperlinks within that document.
> Both are down in the smallish print near the bottom of the page.
> Both seem to be there, when I hover the mouse over the active regions,
> and are certainly present in the PDF content,
> with corresponding Annotations and /Link  tagging.
>
> So please be more specific about what you think is wrong or missing;
> saying what gives you the indication of something being incomplete.
>
> I’m fully sighted, and not using Assisstive Technology, but Adobe’s
> Acrobat Reader and Pro software.
> So a screen-shot, or other kind of snippet detailing what you encounter,
> would be most helpful
> if it is possible to do that.
>
>
>
> Frankly, the basic export of a paper renders the PDF unreadable at the
>
> I’m sorry, what do you mean by “basic export”?
> From what software are you exporting and why?  What version, what year?
> Does it claim to read Tagged PDF?
> Does it claim to support PDF/UA?
>
>
> moment, so that is what I would like to see fixed first. Spaces in pdflatex
> don't always show up, soyougetconetntlikethis.
>
> This shouldn’t be happening with the PDFs that I’ve created;
> so if it is then I need to know more about the software you are using.
> Care has been taken to re-insert space characters between words
> — but they occur using a non-standard font.
>
> If that is not what you are encountering, then I’d like to know:
>  * is it happening throughout the whole document?
>  * or just in a few places — please be specific about just where.
> Or is this comment meant to be about  pdflatex  generally,
> rather than the documents accessed from my site?
>
>      http://www.maths.mq.edu.au/~ross/TaggedPDF/
>
>
> I would be happy to read and comment on PDFs.
>
> That’s great to hear, and much appreciated.
>
> My aim is to create PDFs according to the published ISO standards, in
> order to
> satisfy Accessibility requirements. In my examples I can achieve validation
> using Adobe’s Preflight tool. But if that is not actually giving a useable
> PDF
> for you, I need more details about just what you encounter, and why it
> seems
> to be inadequate.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs <https://protect-au.mimecast.
> com/s/6SDqCGv0Z6fk7WOUKTgOY?domain=brandonkeithbiggs.com>
>
> On Sun, May 27, 2018 at 1:53 PM, Boris Veytsman via BlindMath <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
>
> Greetings
>
> I am Boris Veytsman, the current president of TeX Users Group,
> https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/hcFsCJyBZ6tZJpAUGnXhQ?domain=tug.org,
> the non-profit society of the users of TeX, LaTeX,
> Metafont and related systems.  Many subscribers of this list probably
> dealt with math papers typeset with TeX.
>
> I would like to tell the subscribers of this list about our current
> project of enabling TeX to produce tagged PDF suitable for screen
> readers.  Here is the Web page for the working group:
> https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/bWO9CK1DOrCOo8MU3g9ym?domain=tug.org.
>  We have a mailing list at
> https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/vSThCL7Eg9fKWNwSmUh9w?domain=tug.org.
>
> Recently we published our work plan
> (https://www.maths.mq.edu.au/~ross/TaggedPDF/PDF-standards-v2.pdf) and
> examples of tagged PDF
> (https://www.maths.mq.edu.au/~ross/TaggedPDF/).  We would be
> absolutely glad to hear your commments and suggestions.  Please
> contact me if you want to help.
>
> --
> Good luck
>
> -Boris
>
>
> All the best, and hope to hear from more people on this list.
>
>
> Dr Ross Moore
>
> Mathematics Dept | 12 Wally’s Walk, 734
> Macquarie University, NSW 2109, Australia
>
> T: +61 2 9850 8955  |  F: +61 2 9850 8114<tel:%2B61%202%209850%209695>
> M:+61 407 288 255<tel:%2B61%20409%20125%20670>  |  E: ross.moore at mq.edu.au
> <mailto:rick.minter at mq.edu.au>
>
> http://www.maths.mq.edu.au<http://mq.edu.au/>
>
>
> [cid:image001.png at 01D030BE.D37A46F0]<http://mq.edu.au/>
>
>
> CRICOS Provider Number 00002J. Think before you print.
> Please consider the environment before printing this email.<
> http://mq.edu.au/>
>
> This message is intended for the addressee named and may
> contain confidential information. If you are not the intended
> recipient, please delete it and notify the sender. Views expressed
> in this message are those of the individual sender, and are not
> necessarily the views of Macquarie University.<http://mq.edu.au/>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindMath mailing list
> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindMath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
> brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
> blindmath-gems-home>
>
>
_______________________________________________
BlindMath mailing list
BlindMath at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindMath:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40gmail.com
BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus