[BlindMath] SPSS

Sat Sep 14 00:12:40 UTC 2019

+1! I would only add one thing to this, and that is that accessibility is
not the answer. We tried that for a few decades. It worked great in dos, not
so bad in early Windows and Mac, and pretty poorly on the early web, though
everyone now knows the wrong term, alt tag, instead of alt attribute, which
is something, I suppose.

Software and the systems and workflows around it need to be ideated and
implemented from an inclusive design perspective. Accessibility is a natural
and deterministic output of following such a methodology. The awareness
problem is often pointed to, but is honestly not the way we can resolve
this, at the corporate level. The awareness needs to exist at the design and
implementation stages. This means doing anything and everything we can to
encourage undergraduate degrees, programming certificates, project
management camps, and design schools to pay more than lip service to
inclusive design. It means an entire course, not just one day in an HCI
class. Concepts like semantics, color contrast, readability, word-shape
implications of all-caps usage, keyboard-based usage, multimodal affordances
within complex interactives, consideration of cognitive differences amongst
users, and the rest emerge from such a treatment of the topic.

Corporate commitment to accessibility is meaningless without the backing of
proper implementation strategies. It doesn't matter if the CEO commits the
entire organization to "accessibility", if the implementation is devoid of
an understanding of actual inclusive design principles. Take a look at
Microsoft's efforts in this space. They are well-meaning, intentional,
funded, and governed by the highest echelons of the organization, yet the
user story for something like Skype, Windows 10, Microsoft Teams, and the
like are frankly, intolerable. No need to get into specifics, as I've
provided pages of feedback on such things to the key stakeholders with no
results after years, and that's not the purpose of this paragraph or even
the mailing list. It is a statement rooted in fact, however. Alternatively,
examine Google. Far less of a commitment to accessibility at those levels
and from a public perspective. They essentially treat accessibility as an
engineering problem, which means it's doomed to failure from day 1. Again,
it doesn't matter where the commitment is coming from if the fundamental
principles of inclusion are not woven into the practices and controls of the
organization to facilitate actual measurable outcomes, instead of headlines
and sales tactics for selling into school systems.

Oh, and I should say this before the above is misinterpreted. It is possible
to respect, deeply appreciate, and value the individuals at the above
companies working on such things and also consistently hold the viewpoint
that their employer is doing an incredibly suboptimal job around inclusion
and accessibility. These are in no way mutually exclusive. So, let's just be
clear on that point before moving on.

There are plenty of different examples that can be cited, all with their own
approaches and governance implications around accessibility or inclusion,
but if the underlying expertise is not there with the designer, developers,
project managers, product owners, and the like, it just won't happen in a
way that is remotely equitable.

Lastly, a point on activism. To quote Benjamin  Franklin, " We must, indeed,
all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately."
Inclusion is more than just disability-based access, which is of course a
focus of this and other communities, as it should be, but if we want true
inclusion, we need to partner with or groups suffering similar oppression,
so as to coalesce into a unified voice when demanding inclusion for
everyone. The entire vector of human difference is what we should be
designing, building, and optimizing for.

Or, ... at least, that's my opinion on such things.

Take care,
Sina

President, Prime Access Consulting, Inc.
Phone: 919-345-3832
https://www.PAC.bz
Twitter: @SinaBahram
Personal Website: https://www.sinabahram.com

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Godfrey,
Jonathan via BlindMath
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2019 7:34 PM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Godfrey, Jonathan <A.J.Godfrey at massey.ac.nz>
Subject: Re: [BlindMath] SPSS

Hello Lynn and all,

I really struggle to work out what to say to people who try to work with
inaccessible software without expressing quite a lot of personal
frustration. I've read Sina's message on using a Mac just now for
inspiration on how to say something nicely. I'm not sure I can manage to
match it, but there are things that need to be discussed.

Yes, there is plenty of software that is not working for blind people.

In addition though, I suggest that we have quite a few problems with
software that are our fault, not the fault of the software itself.

- We do not learn from the experiences of others. All too often, I see
people run the same experiments that lead to a failure and report it is if
it was something unknown to the experts. I regularly check to see what comes
up when I search for "statistics software blind" and rearrangements; the
list is pretty good on Google today although this might be seen as blatant
self-promotion. <smiles>
- We have resources that present information that was accurate at the time
of writing but has gone stale. This is unfortunate as what worked for
someone ten years ago is often assumed to still work.
- We have blind people claiming that software is accessible when it is not.
Often this is because we have a power user making a claim that is not
appropriate for a novice.
- We have blind people who do not know how to use the tools they do have. I
see this most often as a consequence of not knowing how to use their chosen
screen reader properly. All too often, this is then blamed on the mainstream
software.
- We have blind people using the wrong blindness tools for a job. I've seen
students using new equipment that they shouldn't have purchased in the first
place. As an aside, I see this happen for many sighted students too, but
that doesn't make it OK.
- I've seen far too many people with low-vision struggle because they
haven't yet worked out that working sighted is harder than working blind.
Thankfully, the contrary is also true because I have met low-vision students
who use braille and print interchangeably.
- We have let ourselves be supported so much that our first port of call is
a disability support service. This is good in a student's first year of
university, but employers don't offer such services. Perhaps the biggest
problem here is that the onus of support gets shifted from the teaching
department onto the disability support staff. With respect to STEM subjects
that is often a recipe for sub-optimal results. I have to say though that I
receive about as many requests for assistance from the three groups of
people - students themselves (best in my opinion), their teaching staff
(good, but even better if this has followed a conversation with the
student), and disability support staff (OK, but I see this as a backstop
measure and while helpful, I still think it is far from ideal).
- We have not complained about inaccessible software enough. Vendors
continue to sell their inaccessible products to universities, sometimes with
false information about the accessibility of their software. No one
complains so nothing changes. Universities continue to purchase substandard
software because they don't know any better.
- we do not have reliable systems for sharing the knowledge we do have. If
we did, the above list would be considerably shorter.
- there is very limited resource to assist every blind student in need by
way of comprehensive support. It is over five years since anyone fully
funded me to assist blind students. The only way I've managed to do so is to
seek research funding and claim that my interactions with the students
benefit my work or to piggy back workshops around conference travel.

On the bright side:

- there are numerous people who are looking out for blind people's needs in
STEM subjects. This is the season for people making contact with me. I can
report that I've handled a dozen requests in the last month alone.
- there are software solutions that do work for blind people doing
statistics courses. R and  SAS are the only two that get any real support
for blind people. A student using anything else does so at their own peril;
a student who does so without the support of their teaching staff does
themselves no good at all.
- Publicly available accessible resources to support students and teaching
staff do exist.

Please note: this is not a get at Lynn message. I've seen too many people
just like Lynn and unless something changes, there will be another one soon.
I actually think it is well past the time when blind people ourselves stood
up and said that the current way things are working is not working for us.
We need to do so knowing what we're doing well, and what we're not doing so
well though.

Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Lynn Wilson via
BlindMath
Sent: Friday, 13 September 2019 4:06 AM
To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Lynn Wilson <admin at nadp-uk.org>
Subject: Re: [BlindMath] SPSS

Hi

I spent a lot of time trying to assist a blind student use Jaws and SPSS. We
eventually got in a specialist VI trainer who set the systems so most were
workable with copying and pasting to a document so she could read the data.
Even then she required sighted assistance for some tasks. I was later
advised that it would be better to use R Statistics from the R project.
https://www.r-project.org/ 

Hope this helps

Lynn

Lynn Wilson AMNADP
Operations Manager
National Association of Disability Practitioners Ltd Lansdowne Building, 2
Lansdowne Rd. East Croydon, CR9 2ER Tel. 02082636220; Mobile: 07984405456
Website: https://nadp-uk.org/ 

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Jeannie Massay
via BlindMath
Sent: 30 August 2019 03:59
To: BlindMath at nfbnet.org
Cc: Jeannie Massay <jmassay1 at cox.net>
Subject: [BlindMath] SPSS

Hello all- 

Does anyone have experience using SPSS and JAWS? When installing the program
asks if you are using JAWS. However the menus and thus, the program seems to
be inaccessible. Any thoughts or suggestions? 

Thanks, 

Jeannie 

Jeannie Massay, President
National Federation of the Blind of Oklahoma
405-600-0695
president at nfbok.org
Www.nfbok.org

Live the life you want!
_______________________________________________
BlindMath mailing list
BlindMath at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
BlindMath:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/admin%40nadp-uk.org
BlindMath Gems can be found at
<http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>

_______________________________________________
BlindMath mailing list
BlindMath at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
BlindMath:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/a.j.godfrey%40massey.
ac.nz
BlindMath Gems can be found at
<http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>

_______________________________________________
BlindMath mailing list
BlindMath at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
BlindMath:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sina%40sinabahram.com
BlindMath Gems can be found at
<http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>