[BlindMath] Graphiti / Graphiti Plus experiences
Santiago Velasquez
zanty410 at gmail.com
Wed Mar 30 03:01:18 UTC 2022
Hi to you all,
I think all of the points raised here are very important, but there is also one thing that has not been mentioned yet. One of the reasons why accessible technology is so expensive is: it's a niche market, and it produces niche products. Before I expand on this, I do want to mention that I am biased since I am currently leading the development of a tactile display that has no moving parts and is completely transparent. With that said though, hardware development is expensive, seeking funding for accessible technology differs around the world, and different governments have different funding schemes to support people with disabilities. I am also vision impaired, and I have always strived to be as independent as possible, or to create the tools that will allow me and others to do as they want without having limitations. Without talking about one particular technology, most of the devices that we utilise in our daily lives to make them more accessible do not benefit anybody else. Yes, there are exceptions, and there are some technologies within those devices that can be utilised in other sectors, but for the most part, they don’t get used enough to justified their cost, or the sub technologies were developed before the accessible device. Adding to this, the majority of the accessible products, systems, services and processes that we use, or can utilise tend not to be developed by people who have both technical and lived disability experience. Again, I make note that this is a bit of a chicken and egg situation, but just seeking input from people with lived experience, or hoping that the technical experience plus observed experiences will be enough doesn’t really work. This tends to yield accessible designs rather than universally designed things. If we can design products, systems, services and processes that can benefit the rest of the population: governments, companies, organisations and high net worth individuals might be more open to assisting. There are further discussions that can be had, and I have not even touched on the different financial acquisition powers that different individuals have around the world, or the different unemployment rates for different countries for people with disabilities. All of these points, and then some add up to making great technology a bit difficult to just put out by the thousands.
Keen to hear what others have to say.
Regards
Santi
> On 30 Mar 2022, at 11:51 am, Ken Perry via BlindMath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> I don't disagree that it will and that is why I said we really need to get the alphabet groups to back these things and get them somewhat underwritten. Also I will point out there are groups that will buy them for people. Maybe going to groups like the Lions club etc. I really feel if some non-profit backed several hundred of these Covid would have been less damaging for blind kids because the Graphiti was available before covid and it could have changed long distance education. Like I said I would love to see some grant writer go after a tactile X prize.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org <mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org>> On Behalf Of Jonathan Godfrey via BlindMath
> Sent: Monday, March 28, 2022 7:50 PM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <blindmath at nfbnet.org <mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org>>
> Cc: Jonathan Godfrey <A.J.Godfrey at massey.ac.nz <mailto:A.J.Godfrey at massey.ac.nz>>
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Graphiti / Graphiti Plus experiences
>
> Hello,
>
> While I agree that increasing the ability to purchase the devices we need to get on in life is empowering, this is an example of a tool that could increase the chance that an intelligent and capable individual would actually get the educational outcomes that would improve their employment prospects.
>
>
> I do not know what a starting salary looks like in the US, but at US$15K, the device is about 1/4 of my current annual disposable income, and about half of what I would earn as a first year lecturer today.
>
> All too unfortunately, that will preclude purchase by a large number of individuals who could benefit hugely from having the tech on (or under as it were) hand.
>
> Even in these enlightened times, or perhaps because we are in these enlightened times, my university would not purchase a device that had benefit to a single student. The solution would be to get the student to purchase the device with support from the State (meaning national government agency in my case). The problem would then be that the cost of this device exceeds the total allowance over a person's lifetime, to purchase equipment as a student. The students would then need to decide whether to have their funding support go on a single device, or be spread among their various equipment needs, which might for example include an embosser.
>
> I would be very hard pressed to see my university purchase this device for me as a staff member, but at least I can choose to give that a go. If my employer decided not to fund it, the schemes available to me for funding support would not cover the full cost because the annual allowance is well below the cost.
>
>
> I sincerely hope that the cost of soft braille devices does come down.
>
> Until these tools are within reach of even a small but obvious number of people, my own research must continue to find solutions that deliver outcomes for the people who cannot afford the flash tools.
>
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Peter via BlindMath
> Sent: Tuesday, 29 March 2022 7:24 am
> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics' <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Peter <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Graphiti / Graphiti Plus experiences
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> It would also be great to see more blind people latch onto various income-producing vehicles to empower themselves to be able to buy this technology. We have shared several such money-making ideas with blind people we know only to have them reject every one or fail to stay committed to making the venture work for them. Asking others to invest in these devices is one solution. The willingness to help ourselves and others increase their income to meet their blindness-related needs is quite another.
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Susan Osterhaus via BlindMath
> Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2022 11:20 PM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Susan Osterhaus <osterhauss at tsbvi.edu>
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Graphiti / Graphiti Plus experiences
>
> Well said Ken. The Graphiti is a magnificent piece of technology. I have a former student who is hoping for her university to get grant money so that they can purchase one for her so that she can pursue her studies in graduate school more efficiently.
>
> Susan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindMath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ken Perry via BlindMath
> Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2022 6:55 PM
> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: kperry at blinksoft.com
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Graphiti / Graphiti Plus experiences
>
>
>
> I think only people who have done hardware development can understand the cost. I will say if some one has money to back a large quantity order they can quickly see costs go lower than $15,0000. It is unfortunate that a lot of the alphabet blindness organizations have not backed companies like Orbit and the others that are doing this kind of development. It would be great if any of you know a billionaire or two to get them to underwrite this
> kind of development. Wouldn't it be great to see a Braille / Tactile
> display Project X or something like that. It amazes me when states spend
> 70 million dollars to make a new soccer stadium but we can not get all states to go together to lay 1 million or more a state (50 million+) to back all the current display projects. If anyone knows how to get such a project under way they could change the world for all blind people. APH made a big dent in the braille world when they helped Orbit create the Orbit reader 20. Now there are other low cost displays such as the Orbit Reader
> 40 and even things like the APH Mantis. The prices of braille displays are finally falling. This tactile display problem is a little bigger. In the next couple of years there are several companies coming out with devices but I don't see the price dropping low enough that just anyone can buy them
> unless we can find a way to really underwrite it. So find your friendly
> billionaire, tackle him or her in an alley and let them know these companies need money. There are at least 7 different engineering firms with something they could come up to speed with in no time and the more displays Orbit sells the more they can drop the price especially if they can get large orders. It is just the way hardware design goes.
>
>
> Ken
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Traci W via BlindMath
> Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2022 6:23 PM
> To: Nicolas Spohn <nspohn0 at gmail.com>
> Cc: Traci W <traci.mwd at gmail.com>; Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Graphiti / Graphiti Plus experiences
>
> Wait, what????? 15k - dang!!
>
> On Sun, Mar 27, 2022 at 12:49 PM Nicolas Spohn <nspohn0 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Yes it is for sale but I believe it’s $15,000 or something like that
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Mar 27, 2022, at 12:03 PM, Traci W via BlindMath <
>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Is the Graphiti in actual production yet?
>>>
>>> Traci
>>>
>>>> On Sat, Mar 26, 2022 at 11:09 PM Ken Perry via BlindMath <
>>>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have been involved with the development so take anything I say as
>>>> I am slightly biased since I have one and love it. That is the
>>>> Graphiti. Note the Graphiti plus. I will say though the additional
>>>> 40 cell Orbit display on the Plus excites me. I am also 100% blind
>>>> if you don't already know me.
>>>>
>>>> As for using it with scatter plots. You can connect the Graphiti
>> directly
>>>> to
>>>> a TI-84 Talking graphing calculator and it shows scatterplots well.
>>>> The display on the TI-84 is a 96 by 64. So, when it graphs to the
>>>> Graphiti
>> it
>>>> seems condensed because it is since the Graphiti is 60 by 40. You
>>>> can
>> view
>>>> it that way or you can expand it and see it as is on the calculator
>> which
>>>> means you must pan once to see everything. With that said it is
>>>> amazing
>> how
>>>> well it works.
>>>>
>>>> You can also view anything on the TI-84 TGC and be able to pan
>>>> through
>> the
>>>> graph with the cursor and values displaying on the Graphiti perfectly.
>> It
>>>> really is like using the Calculator sighted. I can even read the x
>>>> and y values by hand even if it is not in braille, I can read the
>>>> actual
>> numbers
>>>> by feel.
>>>>
>>>> Oh, another comment on scatter plots it's amazing on how easy it is
>>>> to
>> tell
>>>> how the data is trending even in a compressed 60 by 40 modes before
>>>> you expand it. You can tell if the data is trending to the positive
>>>> just by laying your firsthand the device while it graphs.
>>>>
>>>> You can also get a picture of a scatter plot and put it on the
>>>> Graphiti.
>>>> Graphiti will show almost all types of Image files with no problem.
>>>>
>>>> I will point out one of the cool things about the Graphiti cells is
>>>> the pins can come up while you are viewing it with your hands. This
>>>> made it
>> amazing
>>>> when I wrote Tetris for it. It is fun to play Tetris again.
>>>>
>>>> I am the one that made the video on the Graphiti with a Microscope,
>>>> and
>> I
>>>> can tell you, you can see things like the cavities in an earth
>>>> worm
>> and we
>>>> even did a live demonstration of fungus growing on a slide which
>>>> was amazing.
>>>>
>>>> I am the one that made all the videos where I code with Turtle
>>>> graphics with it, and you can follow the tracks of the turtles on
>>>> the screen which is
>> as
>>>> amazing as when I did it sighted in High school. I am now 51 one
>>>> and
>> blind
>>>> so let us just say that is amazing to be able to do something I
>>>> could do sighted as good.
>>>>
>>>> I wrote the NVDA plugin and with that you can send the whole screen
>>>> or
>> just
>>>> the parts you are viewing. That plugin needs to be advanced but
>>>> that is because I do not use it much attached to NVDA. I am more
>>>> into using it
>> as a
>>>> tool I can code with or an HDMI monitor with things like an Xbox or
>> even my
>>>> raspberry PI. With that said the NVDA plugin changes how you use a
>> computer
>>>> because you can really make the Graphiti do about anything when it
>> comes to
>>>> showing you part of the screen.
>>>>
>>>> With what I have done as an NVDA plugin many people can extend
>>>> it if they wish.
>>>>
>>>> On that note There was also a piece of software created for a
>>>> student
>> at a
>>>> university called tactviz and it was made to study proteins here is
>>>> a
>> cut
>>>> from the read me of the software.
>>>> TactViz was designed to improve the biomolecular visualization and
>> analysis
>>>> experience in VMD for users who are blind or visually impaired. It
>>>> was developed based on the needs of student Olivia Shaw in the
>>>> Hadden Lab at the University of Delaware. TactViz can be used with
>>>> electronic refreshable tactile display devices (e.g., Graphiti) for
>>>> interactive biomolecular visualization, Read more about it here.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fg
>>>> ithub.com%2Fjodihadden%2FTactViz&data=04%7C01%7Ca.j.godfrey%40m
>>>> assey.ac.nz%7Cecf89194258d43f21dce08da10e85adb%7C388728e1bbd0437898
>>>> dcf8682e644300%7C1%7C0%7C637840887416772446%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d
>>>> 8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D
>>>> %7C3000&sdata=Lj4mXhuQiKu%2FfYZZcbNF13WOCibJeehc4SbRM5SqRM4%3D&
>>>> amp;reserved=0
>>>>
>>>> She also has some published papers that also mention the Graphiti
>>>> if
>> you
>>>> search.
>>>>
>>>> There are also videos of the Graphiti and desmos if you search on
>>>> You
>> tube
>>>> and you can see some of the fun, they put the Graphiti through.
>>>>
>>>> Oh, one last thing. I have also used the Graphiti with Openscad to
>> create a
>>>> dumbbell shaped thing just to see if I could. It is possible and it
>>>> is something that could be improved on if someone was a 3D nut. I
>>>> am a Software engineer and have more fun writing code than making
>>>> 3D stuff, but my
>> point
>>>> is I would have loved to have this thing when I was in calculus to
>>>> be
>> able
>>>> to make my own multi-level shell shapes that I could feel on the fly.
>> That
>>>> is for the younger kids now that these tactile devices are coming
>> online.
>>>>
>>>> One thing the Graphiti can do that no other device can is show
>>>> things
>> with
>>>> multi levels and when it comes to viewing images, which is a very
>> important
>>>> feature. Anyway, since I am a bit biased, I should end this here.
>>>> I can tell you this though. My Graphiti does not sit on my table
>>>> and get no
>> work.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Robin
>> Williams
>>>> via BlindMath
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2022 10:56 AM
>>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Cc: Robin Williams <Robin.Williams at atass-sports.co.uk>
>>>> Subject: [BlindMath] Graphiti / Graphiti Plus experiences
>>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone on this list have experience with the Graphiti or
>>>> Graphiti
>> Plus
>>>> from Orbit Research?
>>>> https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fww
>>>> w.orbitresearch.com%2Fproduct%2Fgraphiti-plus%2F&data=04%7C01%7
>>>> Ca.j.godfrey%40massey.ac.nz%7Cecf89194258d43f21dce08da10e85adb%7C38
>>>> 8728e1bbd0437898dcf8682e644300%7C1%7C0%7C637840887416772446%7CUnkno
>>>> wn%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haW
>>>> wiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=m2co2Ir0NtCrl5%2F2%2BtZWPDEeQoLYi
>>>> 1GutnVcI4lPhyA%3D&reserved=0 I would be very interested to hear
>>>> from anyone who has used one of these devices to view graphics that
>>>> are commonly used in statistical
>> research, in
>>>> particular scatter plots involving many datapoints, as well as any
>>>> other interesting use cases.
>>>>
>>>> With thanks,
>>>> Robin
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> BlindMath mailing list
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>>>> 01%7Ca.j.godfrey%40massey.ac.nz%7Cecf89194258d43f21dce08da10e85adb%
>>>> 7C388728e1bbd0437898dcf8682e644300%7C1%7C0%7C637840887416772446%7CU
>>>> nknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik
>>>> 1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=T%2BjkAU%2B38kH6fVogY7cMaYu%2
>>>> BT0hLmn3BZpCRGioYJT8%3D&reserved=0
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
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>> a10e85adb%7C388728e1bbd0437898dcf8682e644300%7C1%7C0%7C637840887416772
>> 446%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTi
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>> oft.co
>>>> m
>>>> <
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>>>
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>>>> 7C388728e1bbd0437898dcf8682e644300%7C1%7C0%7C637840887416772446%7CU
>>>> nknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik
>>>> 1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=T%2BjkAU%2B38kH6fVogY7cMaYu%2
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>> a10e85adb%7C388728e1bbd0437898dcf8682e644300%7C1%7C0%7C637840887416772
>> 446%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTi
>> I6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=cFbWbL3wPQHrIOuhKli47KRgx%2F
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>>>> frey%40massey.ac.nz%7Cecf89194258d43f21dce08da10e85adb%7C388728e1bb
>>>> d0437898dcf8682e644300%7C1%7C0%7C637840887416772446%7CUnknown%7CTWF
>>>> pbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVC
>>>> I6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=vVrMgMN3HtmQvPg%2F2gjLnNii04vkh%2FQ9mouIb
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>>> wn%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWw
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>> 446%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTi
>> I6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=mO1m34r2ym0aLjkzxDh%2FpNq1LO
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>>
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