[BlindMath] SPSS and Jaws

Sun Feb 26 06:39:47 UTC 2023

Really interesting reply. We should talk!
I feel like you and I could talk about lots of stuff. 😊

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Jonathan Godfrey via BlindMath
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2023 10:24 PM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Jonathan Godfrey <A.J.Godfrey at massey.ac.nz>
Subject: Re: [BlindMath] SPSS and Jaws

David,
I put the links in my initial response that shows you what I use, but in brief, I use R, pandoc, plain text files (albeit with specific extensions), HTML every working day and most other days besides.
I make use of Octave, Python, and many command line tools other people have put together, but these are somewhat occasional.

I no longer make use of LaTeX, and seldom use MS Word or Excel. I haven't created a power point in nearly ten years because I can make presentations in HTML. My use of Excel is pretty limited to its data entry conveniences. I must open other people's work (far too often) using MS Word and Excel of course.

I investigate new tools to see if my way of working is still the best. For example, I will be making more use of Quarto for processing my markdown documents in future because it offers some things I want to provide for my students.

Perhaps it is worth mentioning my exceptions to using only free and open source software. I still use Jaws as my primary screen reader, but I rely on NVDA far too often to bail me out of trouble when Jaws is doing something strange. I use Outlook for email/calendar because this is what we need to use at work. I use Zoom and Teams instead of the alternatives now that so many other people are doing so. If I make a meeting appointment it will be a Teams meeting, but I always let my clients/students choose their tool so that they make the appointment at the time we've worked out. I only choose teams because it is linked to Outlook's calendar.

In summary, I retain tools that work reliably, work fast, work  the same way next time I need to use them, work well with screen readers, and don't tax my memory on keystrokes to get the job done. I'm working fast because I use tools that can be processed automatically as against manual editing like MS Word documents. I rely on little scripts that find and replace text across files and other things that keep me and my work up to date.

I claim to be more efficient in my course preparation than many of my colleagues (all of whom are sighted). Semester starts tomorrow morning and my preparation for 2023 classes was to re-process my lectures from 2022 so that they all get the date automatically changed. This is possible because I edit them as soon as I find a reason to update them, even if that is done in front of the class. If I find an idea that is relevant to my teaching, I implement it immediately. This keeps my code up to the most recent (and recommended) best practice.

HTH,
Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of David Engebretson Jr. via BlindMath
Sent: Sunday, 26 February 2023 6:45 pm
To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics' <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Cc: David Engebretson Jr. <accessible.engineering at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [BlindMath] SPSS and Jaws

Hi Jonathan and all,

I, and I suspect others on this list, would like to know what your " free and open source" solutions are.

Also, after the past several years of accessibility related events in the U.S. we've just seen the inclusion of digital technologies tutorials on the ADA sites. There is nothing formal yet regarding software providers needing to provide ADA compliant user experiences here in the U.S., unless they are public companies like Domino's Pizza which has a widely publicized story.

In the public education space here in the U.S. we have to report accessibility violations (usually based on the current WCAG guidelines from
w3.org) to the Department of Educations OCR (Office of Civil Rights) folks before there will be any consideration of litigation made. And it _could_ take years for that type of litigation to be resolved.

Basically, the digital technologies space is not yet perfected in the U.S.
There's Always something else to consider and work on for our governmental representatives. We don't yet have accessibility problems correctly solved or related humanitarian issues solved in the U.S., disability advocates like me are trying to help change the system. Bureaucratic change can often take decades with such varied opinions from a diverse pool of governmental representatives.

All we can do in my opinion, as advocates for accessible digital technologies, is to keep moving forward. We should share our current knowledge of solutions for accessible solutions to our related communities that are in need of immediate help. We aren't going to change the antiquated ways of bureaucracy by complaining to an email list.

Get involved!
David

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Jonathan Godfrey via BlindMath
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2023 8:31 PM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Jonathan Godfrey <A.J.Godfrey at massey.ac.nz>
Subject: Re: [BlindMath] SPSS and Jaws

Hello George,

I'm really not sure if you were trying to be funny with this comment or serious.

It would be nice for those of us living outside the US, if the powers that be in the US would force these US companies to meet their obligations under the ADA. 

With respect to SPSS, I reviewed their VPAT statement some years ago and found it almost unbelievable. They quite clearly did not have evaluations of their software made by screen reader users. <sigh> This was before I discovered the V in VPAT was for voluntary.

I'd love to see some trigger-happy litigator file a class action against software companies for breaches of the ADA. It won't solve Ashley's situation though.

Meanwhile, the best solution for anyone in my position is to make work for people who insist on using inaccessible software and/or systems. I decided that I would no longer pay someone sighted to help me navigate such systems with my own resources. I now put the work back onto the person wanting me to use that inaccessible system It's been quite easy really, starting with my supposed excessive annual leave problem. I was taking leave but unable to use the HR system to have it recorded or approved. When my balance got to three years' worth, I finally got a bit more attention from management and a satisfactory work around.

When it comes to software, I have structured my life in such a way that means I avoid the painful software and make use of friendly alternatives.
Thankfully, the alternatives are often free and open source.

All the best,
Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of George Bell via BlindMath
Sent: Sunday, 26 February 2023 10:37 am
To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Cc: george at techno-vision.co.uk
Subject: Re: [BlindMath] SPSS and Jaws

Does "Section 508" not cover this in the USA?
George

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Jonathan Godfrey via BlindMath
Sent: 25 February 2023 06:43
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Jonathan Godfrey <A.J.Godfrey at massey.ac.nz>
Subject: Re: [BlindMath] SPSS and Jaws

Hello Ashley,

I haven't checked v27 of SPSS, but many versions prior to this were less than fully accessible to a screen reader user.

I doubt the course you are taking is going to make use of the underlying SPSS code/command language, often referred to by SPSS users as the "syntax".

You have three options worthy of consideration, and the best option will heavily depend on what support you will get from your university. Most people know I favour R, while some others like to fight with SAS code, and a relatively small number work with Stata.

All three require entry of commands entered as text in script files and all can return readable output (text of HTML).

See https://r-resources.massey.ac.nz/statsoftware/ for a rough review. I probably need to do some more updates to it on the software I haven't checked for some time.
And then https://r-resources.massey.ac.nz/help/AccessibleSTEMSoftware.html
for a "go-to" list, which also includes some mathematics software options.

Of note is the fact that I set the bar on accessibility quite high. See https://r-resources.massey.ac.nz/help/GoldStandard.html
for my definition. This was a conversation started on this list

If you decide to go down the R pathway, then there are plenty of resources to help, written in screen reader friendly HTML. I recommend you use the same workflow as many of these authors so that your work leads to an HTML file that you can deal with using your existing skills.

HTH,
Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Ashley N via BlindMath
Sent: Saturday, 25 February 2023 6:55 pm
To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
Cc: Ashley N <crazy4chemistry at att.net>
Subject: [BlindMath] SPSS and Jaws

Hello,
I am a current PhD student in Education with a STEM Accessability focus at Oregon State University. I will be taking a quantitative analysis course next quarter and have been told by the instructor I will need to use SPSS 27 for my course. I am a JAWS user with the most current version of JAWS 2023.
What all do I need to know to accomplish this or if that is not accessible what should I suggest for a work around?
Thank you all!
Ashley
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