[Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind

Steve P. Deeley stevep.deeley at insightbb.com
Mon Jun 1 00:37:20 UTC 2009 

You are fine!
Steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 6:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind


> Well!  Seems a lot has transpired since I last "saw you guys!"
> Bad energy, people!  Bad energy!
> Somebody's got a blockage!
> Ok.  I'm done. . .  I'm going to go and grow up now.  And, since
> I get to come back, I'll talk to you soon (TTYS)
> Thanks, to all, for your back up.
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net
>>To: "'NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>Date sent: Sat, 30 May 2009 20:49:35 -0400
>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>>I'm probably old enough to be your father or grandfather.  You
> sound like a
>>drugged out adolescent with your energy pathways, meridians and
> finally,
>>"perhaps my energy didn't reach your ears".  Your energy wouldn't
> reach my
>>ears if you were in the house next to mine.  Next, you'll be
> talking about
>>astrological signs.  Grow up you foolish child.
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>Behalf Of trishs
>>Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 4:07 PM
>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>>Hey, Schwartz!
>> #1.  When did I "assume that all credible knowledge lies with in
>>Western culture.?"
>>#2.  I "misapplied the vast body of Eastern wisdom", how?"
>> Correct me if I'm wrong, but no where did I see myself
>>disrespectful to Eastern, or Western culture.
>> Being ignorant of customs, I have great respect for Eastern
>>wisdom.  Just brushing the surface, through Massage Therapy
>>training was one of the most interesting, complicated, and
>>difficult things I've ever done.
>> Miss.  chauvinistic, childish, and ignorant hear, never made any
>>such claim.  I mentioned the words touch, intension, energy, and
>>meridian.  So.  Because you've never heard of a meridian, I don't
>>know what I'm talking about?
>> I'd be willing to bet there's an Eastern word for things like
>>your defensive name calling.  In Western terms, it's called Get a
>>grip!
>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net
>>>To: "'NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>Date sent: Sat, 30 May 2009 09:18:49 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>>>It is chauvinistic to assume that all credible  knowledge resides
>>within
>>>Western culture.  It is childish and ignorant to misapply the
>>vast body of
>>>Eastern wisdom.
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>Behalf Of trishs
>>>Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 11:29 PM
>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>>>Excuse me.  Perhaps my words touched your ears, and you've
>>>misunderstood them?  Or, perhaps I wasn't quite following the
>>>thread?  It's possible.  I make mistakes from time to time, too.
>>>No worries!
>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net
>>>>To: "'NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>Date sent: Thu, 28 May 2009 17:25:41 -0400
>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>>>>Sorry, but I still have no idea what you are talking about, nor
>>>do you.
>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>Behalf Of trishs
>>>>Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 7:28 AM
>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>>>>This applied to the intension of touch.
>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net
>>>>>To: "'NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>Date sent: Wed, 27 May 2009 17:11:23 -0400
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>>>>>And just what does this have to do with touching or being
>>>>touched?  Can you
>>>>>tell which organ someone is touching you with by its energy
>>>>pathway?
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>Behalf Of trishs
>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 12:15 PM
>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>>>>>In Eastern medicine it's called a meridian.  There are energy
>>>>>channels which correspond to each body organ, which Eastern
>>>>>cultures have mapped for about as long as there's been medicine.
>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net
>>>>>>To: "'NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 26 May 2009 21:09:33 -0400
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>>>>>>What in the world is an "energy Pathway"
>
>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>Behalf Of trishs
>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 11:51 AM
>>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>>>>>>As far as "across the board answers", and people getting "mad",
>>>>>>we each have the power and self responsibility to say I'm
>>>>>>uncomfortable with that," or "Stop it! That's inappropriate!"  Or
>>>>>>"Could you do that again?"  I feel as though I can speak for most
>>>>>>people when I say that we have all been in situations where a
>>>>>>person's touch "creeped us out", or made us want more.  There are
>>>>>>many types of touch, and it is ALL ABOUT INTENSION, which is
>>>>>>carried through invisible energy pathways.
>>>>>>There are also times when we misunderstand, or misinterpret
>>>>>>someone's touch.  It can be difficult to navigate these energy
>>>>>>pathways, so your power is in your own intension for your own
>>>>>>comfort level.
>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>From: "Steve P.  Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com
>>>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 26 May 2009 08:47:07 -0400
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>>>>>>>It has nothing to do with blindness in my case.  I just hate
>>>>>>being touched.
>
>>>>>>>Steve
>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>From: "dewey bradley" <dewey.bradley at gmail.com
>>>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 8:40 PM
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>
>>>>>>>> Allot of sighted people think that they can't talk to us without
>>>>>>putting
>>>>>>>> there hands on us.
>>>>>>>> The thing is allot of people like my self really hate to be
>>>>>>touched, When
>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>> ask them to please take there hands off, they get mad.
>>>>>>>> I guess there is no across the board answer for things like
>>>>>>this.
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Steve P.  Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com
>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 10:42 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>
>>>>>>>>> This is a very complicated topic.  There are those, like me, who
>>>>>>don't
>>>>>>>>> like being touched during conversations with individuals I
>>>>>>really don't
>>>>>>>>> know very well.  I'm wondering if blind individuals understand
>>>>>>spacial
>>>>>>>>> concepts during conversations.  You don't want to be too close
>>>>>>during a
>>>>>>>>> conversation or too far away.  I suspect most of us who
>>>>>>understand this
>>>>>>>>> art have had some coaching from sighted individuals whom they
>>>>>>trust.
>>>>>>>>> \
>>>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net
>>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:46 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>
>>>>>>>>>>I was raised giving and receiving warm hand shakes, or in some
>>>>>>>>>> situations, embraces and or kisses, all of which seem to me to
>>>>>>be
>>>>>>>>>> quite germ spreading!  I like the bowing idea a lot!
>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>From: Joel Zimba <jzimba at cavtel.net
>>>>>>>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Sat, 23 May 2009 17:08:35 -0400
>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>>>>>>>>>>>Hi,
>
>>>>>>>>>>>I love these kinds of topics.  I believe the issue of blind or
>>>>>>>>>> sighted
>>>>>>>>>>>is mostly meaningless when it comes to whether you should touch
>>>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>>>or not.  It comes down more to how comfortable you are with what
>>>>>>>>>> you are
>>>>>>>>>>>doing and your motivation for it.
>
>>>>>>>>>>>The examples of folks talking with their hands is a great one.
>>>>>>>>>> It's not
>>>>>>>>>>>so much that they talk with their hands, but that touching is a
>>>>>>>>>> means of
>>>>>>>>>>>communication.  In fact, if you are comfortable enough with
>>>>>>>>>> yurself to
>>>>>>>>>>>touch someone else while speaking to them, you'll pull them into
>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>paradigm.  This is common wisdom in the sales world.
>
>>>>>>>>>>>For the blind among us, (myself included) this is most easily
>>>>>>>>>> donw with
>>>>>>>>>>>the back of the hand and making solid contact.
>
>>>>>>>>>>>When it comes to shaking hands, I decided to take the initiative
>>>>>>>>>> early
>>>>>>>>>>>and often.  When someone doesn't take my hand, I leave it out
>>>>>>>>>> there and
>>>>>>>>>>>then eventually start snapping my fingers.  This calls attention
>>>>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>>>>>>fact that the other people are not playing the social game.  I
>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>taught that it is not obligatory for women to shake hands.  Long
>>>>>>>>>> ago I
>>>>>>>>>>>decided that if women want equal rights, they can do the glad
>>>>>>>>>> handing as
>>>>>>>>>>>well, so I expect them to shake and I do the snapping as well.  I
>>>>>>>>>>>sometimes let the elderly off the hook, though oddly, the older
>>>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>>>is, the more likely they are to initiate or take my hand.  Proper
>>>>>>>>>>>conduct seems to not always be taught to the younger generation.
>>>>>>>>>> Maybe
>>>>>>>>>>>we all need to go back to finishing school.
>
>>>>>>>>>>>Now, if someone could explain the bowing protocol to me so that
>>>>>>>>>> my Asian
>>>>>>>>>>>friends would be surprised and pleased by my manners, I would be
>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>>>greatful.
>
>>>>>>>>>>>Joel
>
>>>>>>>>>>>On 5/23/2009 12:40 PM, Jeffrey Schwartz wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Gerardo,
>>>>>>>>>>>> I am also blind as a result of RP and a clinical psychologist.
>>>>>>>>>> My vision
>>>>>>>>>>>> deteriorated at a different pace.  I drove a car until I was 27
>>>>>>>>>> and did not
>>>>>>>>>>>> require adaptive technology to read and write until I was about
>>>>>>>>>> 40.  Now, at
>>>>>>>>>>>> 61, I have little more than light perception.  When younger, I
>>>>>>>>>> was often
>>>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed when my wife kindly noted that someone was reaching
>>>>>>>>>> out to shake
>>>>>>>>>>>> my hand and I was not noticing.  Eventually, I learned to avoid
>>>>>>>>>> this problem
>>>>>>>>>>>> by taking the initiative.  On occasion I reach out to discover
>>>>>>>>>> that the
>>>>>>>>>>>> person has quickly turned their back or departed, no big deal.
>>>>>>>>>> I have had
>>>>>>>>>>>> no experience with the touching.  There are cultural 
>>>>>>>>>>>> differences
>>>>>>>>>> in such
>>>>>>>>>>>> nonverbal behaviors.  For example, cultures vary in terms of
>>>>>>>>>> what is
>>>>>>>>>>>> regarded as personal space.  Groups vary in terms of how close
>>>>>>>>>> they stand to
>>>>>>>>>>>> each other when speaking, and also with regard to touching 
>>>>>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>>> is common
>>>>>>>>>>>> in some cultures and taboo in others.  Perhaps your blindness
>>>>>>>>>> has led you to
>>>>>>>>>>>> exceed what is common in your culture or your parents may have
>>>>>>>>>> felt bad for
>>>>>>>>>>>> you when they saw you reach out to touch someone and the person
>>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>>>> departed.  There are also a group of behaviors known as
>>>>>>>>>> blindisms.  We all
>>>>>>>>>>>> conduct little rituals of personal hygiene when alone which we
>>>>>>>>>> would not do
>>>>>>>>>>>> in front of others.  There is a tendency, particularly if one
>>>>>>>>>> loses their
>>>>>>>>>>>> vision gradually to assume that others see as we do.  I am 
>>>>>>>>>>>> often
>>>>>>>>>> surprised
>>>>>>>>>>>> by what others can see.  We assume that if we can't see
>>>>>>>>>> something others can
>>>>>>>>>>>> not either.  This can lead us to embarrass ourselves by
>>>>>>>>>> performing these
>>>>>>>>>>>> grooming rituals in public.  Recently, I have noticed that when
>>>>>>>>>> I am walking
>>>>>>>>>>>> and thinking about a conversation which I had or will have with
>>>>>>>>>> someone, I
>>>>>>>>>>>> am moving my lips as if I were speaking.  I am working on
>>>>>>>>>> suppressing this
>>>>>>>>>>>> behavior as I am certain that the sighted would see it as
>>>>>>>>>> strange.  Behavior
>>>>>>>>>>>> is so ritualized, and blindness can lead us to engage in some
>>>>>>>>>> peculiar ones.
>>>>>>>>>>>> As professionals, in particular, we don't want to be seen as 
>>>>>>>>>>>> odd
>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>> idiosyncratic.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jeff
>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Cindy Handel
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 9:55 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Gerardo,
>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Most of the time, when I would like to shake the hand of a
>>>>>>>>>> sighted person, I
>
>>>>>>>>>>>> just extend my hand and they grasp it and we shake hands.
>
>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as touching the arm of people, I've never done this.
>>>>>>>>>> When do you do
>>>>>>>>>>>> this?  If you're talking with someone, it shouldn't be
>>>>>>>>>> necessary, since
>>>>>>>>>>>> they're participating in the conversation.  I think we've all
>>>>>>>>>> experienced a
>>>>>>>>>>>> time when we're talking to someone and learn that they walked
>>>>>>>>>> away.  Now, if
>
>>>>>>>>>>>> you're referring to touching a person's arm to make sure 
>>>>>>>>>>>> they're
>>>>>>>>>> still there
>
>>>>>>>>>>>> as a way to insure that you still have their attention, that's
>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>>> different.  I have met sighted people who talk with their hands
>>>>>>>>>> and touch my
>
>>>>>>>>>>>> arm or shoulder, for emphasis.  So, that might not be so
>>>>>>>>>> unusual.
>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cindy
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Gerardo Corripio"<gera1027 at prodigy.net.mx
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "Blind-Talk"<blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 11:35 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
>
>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi listers:
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm Gerardo from Mexico; 31 years old and a Psychologist 
>>>>>>>>>>>> working
>>>>>>>>>> on my own
>>>>>>>>>>>> in my private practice.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hopefully I'll be able to learn lots of great things from you
>>>>>>>>>> guys,
>>>>>>>>>>>> especially of the NFB way of viewing and living with blindness.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Now for my debut question: I've been blind all my life due to
>>>>>>>>>> RP; since I
>>>>>>>>>>>> was a teenager I remember developing a habbit of touching the
>>>>>>>>>> arm of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> people constanly to be sure he/she was still there.  I 
>>>>>>>>>>>> continued
>>>>>>>>>> to do this
>>>>>>>>>>>> into adulthood until my family made the observation that this
>>>>>>>>>> behavior isn't
>>>>>>>>>>>> seen well by the sighted only a few days ago.  I'm still 
>>>>>>>>>>>> shocked
>>>>>>>>>> by this
>>>>>>>>>>>> observation to the point that now how to know if the person is
>>>>>>>>>> still there?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, the voice gives feedback but when people talk it feels as
>>>>>>>>>> if they're
>>>>>>>>>>>> there but aren't there.  How have you coped with this situation
>>>>>>>>>> in that you
>>>>>>>>>>>> have to get rid of the habbit before-mentioned? Surely it has
>>>>>>>>>> happened to
>>>>>>>>>>>> some of you?
>>>>>>>>>>>> also when shaking hands with sighted people how to find the 
>>>>>>>>>>>> hand
>>>>>>>>>> to shake if
>>>>>>>>>>>> the sighted person doesn't take the initiative?
>>>>>>>>>>>> As you can see I've still have lots of tips and tricks to learn
>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>> blindness, thus my interest in joining the list.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Gerardo
>
>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
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>
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>>>>>>>>>> 5%40verizon
>>>>>>>>>>>> .net
>
>
>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>> sbcglobal.net
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>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>
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>
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