[Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind

Graves, Diane dgraves at icrc.IN.gov
Mon Jun 1 12:06:56 UTC 2009 

Wow!  I guess a lot can happen when I am away from my email over the
weekend!

Did you really say that to her?  Didn't you say you were in the field of
psychology?  I sure would hate to be one of your patients.

I can't say that I really understand the energy that Trish is talking
about either but my goodness, can we show some respect?  I'm sure that
there are many aspects of who I am that are not readily understood by
others, but I sure would like to believe that I am among friends, and
that I can post what's on my mind without being attacked.
 


Diane Graves
Civil Rights Specialist
Indiana Civil Rights Commission
Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
317-232-2647
 
"IT is service that measures success."
George Washington Carver
 
 
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-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Jeffrey Schwartz
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 8:50 PM
To: 'NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind

I'm probably old enough to be your father or grandfather.  You sound
like a
drugged out adolescent with your energy pathways, meridians and finally,
"perhaps my energy didn't reach your ears".  Your energy wouldn't reach
my
ears if you were in the house next to mine.  Next, you'll be talking
about
astrological signs.  Grow up you foolish child. 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On
Behalf Of trishs
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 4:07 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind

Hey, Schwartz!
 #1.  When did I "assume that all credible knowledge lies with in 
Western culture.?"
#2.  I "misapplied the vast body of Eastern wisdom", how?"
 Correct me if I'm wrong, but no where did I see myself 
disrespectful to Eastern, or Western culture.
 Being ignorant of customs, I have great respect for Eastern 
wisdom.  Just brushing the surface, through Massage Therapy 
training was one of the most interesting, complicated, and 
difficult things I've ever done.
 Miss.  chauvinistic, childish, and ignorant hear, never made any 
such claim.  I mentioned the words touch, intension, energy, and 
meridian.  So.  Because you've never heard of a meridian, I don't 
know what I'm talking about?
 I'd be willing to bet there's an Eastern word for things like 
your defensive name calling.  In Western terms, it's called Get a 
grip!

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net
>To: "'NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Sat, 30 May 2009 09:18:49 -0400
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind

>It is chauvinistic to assume that all credible  knowledge resides 
within
>Western culture.  It is childish and ignorant to misapply the 
vast body of
>Eastern wisdom.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>Behalf Of trishs
>Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 11:29 PM
>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind

>Excuse me.  Perhaps my words touched your ears, and you've
>misunderstood them?  Or, perhaps I wasn't quite following the
>thread?  It's possible.  I make mistakes from time to time, too.
>No worries!

>> ----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net
>>To: "'NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>Date sent: Thu, 28 May 2009 17:25:41 -0400
>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind

>>Sorry, but I still have no idea what you are talking about, nor
>do you.

>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>Behalf Of trishs
>>Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 7:28 AM
>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind

>>This applied to the intension of touch.

>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net
>>>To: "'NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>Date sent: Wed, 27 May 2009 17:11:23 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind

>>>And just what does this have to do with touching or being
>>touched?  Can you
>>>tell which organ someone is touching you with by its energy
>>pathway?
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>Behalf Of trishs
>>>Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 12:15 PM
>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind

>>>In Eastern medicine it's called a meridian.  There are energy
>>>channels which correspond to each body organ, which Eastern
>>>cultures have mapped for about as long as there's been medicine.

>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net
>>>>To: "'NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>Date sent: Tue, 26 May 2009 21:09:33 -0400
>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind

>>>>What in the world is an "energy Pathway"

>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>Behalf Of trishs
>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 11:51 AM
>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind

>>>>As far as "across the board answers", and people getting "mad",
>>>>we each have the power and self responsibility to say I'm
>>>>uncomfortable with that," or "Stop it! That's inappropriate!"  Or
>>>>"Could you do that again?"  I feel as though I can speak for most
>>>>people when I say that we have all been in situations where a
>>>>person's touch "creeped us out", or made us want more.  There are
>>>>many types of touch, and it is ALL ABOUT INTENSION, which is
>>>>carried through invisible energy pathways.
>>>>There are also times when we misunderstand, or misinterpret
>>>>someone's touch.  It can be difficult to navigate these energy
>>>>pathways, so your power is in your own intension for your own
>>>>comfort level.

>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "Steve P.  Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com
>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 26 May 2009 08:47:07 -0400
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind

>>>>>It has nothing to do with blindness in my case.  I just hate
>>>>being touched.

>>>>>Steve
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "dewey bradley" <dewey.bradley at gmail.com
>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 8:40 PM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind


>>>>>> Allot of sighted people think that they can't talk to us without
>>>>putting
>>>>>> there hands on us.
>>>>>> The thing is allot of people like my self really hate to be
>>>>touched, When
>>>>>> we
>>>>>> ask them to please take there hands off, they get mad.
>>>>>> I guess there is no across the board answer for things like
>>>>this.
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Steve P.  Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com
>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 10:42 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind


>>>>>>> This is a very complicated topic.  There are those, like me, who
>>>>don't
>>>>>>> like being touched during conversations with individuals I
>>>>really don't
>>>>>>> know very well.  I'm wondering if blind individuals understand
>>>>spacial
>>>>>>> concepts during conversations.  You don't want to be too close
>>>>during a
>>>>>>> conversation or too far away.  I suspect most of us who
>>>>understand this
>>>>>>> art have had some coaching from sighted individuals whom they
>>>>trust.
>>>>>>> \
>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net
>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:46 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind


>>>>>>>>I was raised giving and receiving warm hand shakes, or in some
>>>>>>>> situations, embraces and or kisses, all of which seem to me to
>>>>be
>>>>>>>> quite germ spreading!  I like the bowing idea a lot!

>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>From: Joel Zimba <jzimba at cavtel.net
>>>>>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Sat, 23 May 2009 17:08:35 -0400
>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind

>>>>>>>>>Hi,

>>>>>>>>>I love these kinds of topics.  I believe the issue of blind or
>>>>>>>> sighted
>>>>>>>>>is mostly meaningless when it comes to whether you should touch
>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>or not.  It comes down more to how comfortable you are with
what
>>>>>>>> you are
>>>>>>>>>doing and your motivation for it.

>>>>>>>>>The examples of folks talking with their hands is a great one.
>>>>>>>> It's not
>>>>>>>>>so much that they talk with their hands, but that touching is a
>>>>>>>> means of
>>>>>>>>>communication.  In fact, if you are comfortable enough with
>>>>>>>> yurself to
>>>>>>>>>touch someone else while speaking to them, you'll pull them
into
>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>paradigm.  This is common wisdom in the sales world.

>>>>>>>>>For the blind among us, (myself included) this is most easily
>>>>>>>> donw with
>>>>>>>>>the back of the hand and making solid contact.

>>>>>>>>>When it comes to shaking hands, I decided to take the
initiative
>>>>>>>> early
>>>>>>>>>and often.  When someone doesn't take my hand, I leave it out
>>>>>>>> there and
>>>>>>>>>then eventually start snapping my fingers.  This calls
attention
>>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>>>>fact that the other people are not playing the social game.  I
>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>taught that it is not obligatory for women to shake hands.
Long
>>>>>>>> ago I
>>>>>>>>>decided that if women want equal rights, they can do the glad
>>>>>>>> handing as
>>>>>>>>>well, so I expect them to shake and I do the snapping as well.
I
>>>>>>>>>sometimes let the elderly off the hook, though oddly, the older
>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>is, the more likely they are to initiate or take my hand.
Proper
>>>>>>>>>conduct seems to not always be taught to the younger
generation.
>>>>>>>> Maybe
>>>>>>>>>we all need to go back to finishing school.

>>>>>>>>>Now, if someone could explain the bowing protocol to me so that
>>>>>>>> my Asian
>>>>>>>>>friends would be surprised and pleased by my manners, I would
be
>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>greatful.

>>>>>>>>>Joel

>>>>>>>>>On 5/23/2009 12:40 PM, Jeffrey Schwartz wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Gerardo,
>>>>>>>>>> I am also blind as a result of RP and a clinical
psychologist.
>>>>>>>> My vision
>>>>>>>>>> deteriorated at a different pace.  I drove a car until I was
27
>>>>>>>> and did not
>>>>>>>>>> require adaptive technology to read and write until I was
about
>>>>>>>> 40.  Now, at
>>>>>>>>>> 61, I have little more than light perception.  When younger,
I
>>>>>>>> was often
>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed when my wife kindly noted that someone was
reaching
>>>>>>>> out to shake
>>>>>>>>>> my hand and I was not noticing.  Eventually, I learned to
avoid
>>>>>>>> this problem
>>>>>>>>>> by taking the initiative.  On occasion I reach out to
discover
>>>>>>>> that the
>>>>>>>>>> person has quickly turned their back or departed, no big
deal.
>>>>>>>> I have had
>>>>>>>>>> no experience with the touching.  There are cultural
differences
>>>>>>>> in such
>>>>>>>>>> nonverbal behaviors.  For example, cultures vary in terms of
>>>>>>>> what is
>>>>>>>>>> regarded as personal space.  Groups vary in terms of how
close
>>>>>>>> they stand to
>>>>>>>>>> each other when speaking, and also with regard to touching
which
>>>>>>>> is common
>>>>>>>>>> in some cultures and taboo in others.  Perhaps your blindness
>>>>>>>> has led you to
>>>>>>>>>> exceed what is common in your culture or your parents may
have
>>>>>>>> felt bad for
>>>>>>>>>> you when they saw you reach out to touch someone and the
person
>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>> departed.  There are also a group of behaviors known as
>>>>>>>> blindisms.  We all
>>>>>>>>>> conduct little rituals of personal hygiene when alone which
we
>>>>>>>> would not do
>>>>>>>>>> in front of others.  There is a tendency, particularly if one
>>>>>>>> loses their
>>>>>>>>>> vision gradually to assume that others see as we do.  I am
often
>>>>>>>> surprised
>>>>>>>>>> by what others can see.  We assume that if we can't see
>>>>>>>> something others can
>>>>>>>>>> not either.  This can lead us to embarrass ourselves by
>>>>>>>> performing these
>>>>>>>>>> grooming rituals in public.  Recently, I have noticed that
when
>>>>>>>> I am walking
>>>>>>>>>> and thinking about a conversation which I had or will have
with
>>>>>>>> someone, I
>>>>>>>>>> am moving my lips as if I were speaking.  I am working on
>>>>>>>> suppressing this
>>>>>>>>>> behavior as I am certain that the sighted would see it as
>>>>>>>> strange.  Behavior
>>>>>>>>>> is so ritualized, and blindness can lead us to engage in some
>>>>>>>> peculiar ones.
>>>>>>>>>> As professionals, in particular, we don't want to be seen as
odd
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>> idiosyncratic.
>>>>>>>>>> Jeff

>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Cindy Handel
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 9:55 AM
>>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind

>>>>>>>>>> Gerardo,

>>>>>>>>>> Most of the time, when I would like to shake the hand of a
>>>>>>>> sighted person, I

>>>>>>>>>> just extend my hand and they grasp it and we shake hands.

>>>>>>>>>> As far as touching the arm of people, I've never done this.
>>>>>>>> When do you do
>>>>>>>>>> this?  If you're talking with someone, it shouldn't be
>>>>>>>> necessary, since
>>>>>>>>>> they're participating in the conversation.  I think we've all
>>>>>>>> experienced a
>>>>>>>>>> time when we're talking to someone and learn that they walked
>>>>>>>> away.  Now, if

>>>>>>>>>> you're referring to touching a person's arm to make sure
they're
>>>>>>>> still there

>>>>>>>>>> as a way to insure that you still have their attention,
that's
>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>> different.  I have met sighted people who talk with their
hands
>>>>>>>> and touch my

>>>>>>>>>> arm or shoulder, for emphasis.  So, that might not be so
>>>>>>>> unusual.

>>>>>>>>>> Cindy
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Gerardo Corripio"<gera1027 at prodigy.net.mx
>>>>>>>>>> To: "Blind-Talk"<blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 11:35 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind


>>>>>>>>>> Hi listers:
>>>>>>>>>> I'm Gerardo from Mexico; 31 years old and a Psychologist
working
>>>>>>>> on my own
>>>>>>>>>> in my private practice.
>>>>>>>>>> Hopefully I'll be able to learn lots of great things from you
>>>>>>>> guys,
>>>>>>>>>> especially of the NFB way of viewing and living with
blindness.
>>>>>>>>>> Now for my debut question: I've been blind all my life due to
>>>>>>>> RP; since I
>>>>>>>>>> was a teenager I remember developing a habbit of touching the
>>>>>>>> arm of the
>>>>>>>>>> people constanly to be sure he/she was still there.  I
continued
>>>>>>>> to do this
>>>>>>>>>> into adulthood until my family made the observation that this
>>>>>>>> behavior isn't
>>>>>>>>>> seen well by the sighted only a few days ago.  I'm still
shocked
>>>>>>>> by this
>>>>>>>>>> observation to the point that now how to know if the person
is
>>>>>>>> still there?
>>>>>>>>>> Yes, the voice gives feedback but when people talk it feels
as
>>>>>>>> if they're
>>>>>>>>>> there but aren't there.  How have you coped with this
situation
>>>>>>>> in that you
>>>>>>>>>> have to get rid of the habbit before-mentioned? Surely it has
>>>>>>>> happened to
>>>>>>>>>> some of you?
>>>>>>>>>> also when shaking hands with sighted people how to find the
hand
>>>>>>>> to shake if
>>>>>>>>>> the sighted person doesn't take the initiative?
>>>>>>>>>> As you can see I've still have lots of tips and tricks to
learn
>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>> blindness, thus my interest in joining the list.
>>>>>>>>>> Gerardo


>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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