[Blindtlk] Guide Dog then Came

Tue Jun 2 22:07:49 UTC 2009

Oh, Diane, you've asked my favorite question, and I just love to demonstrate 
this when doing presentations.  To determine why you dog has stopped you 
reach out with foot or arm (since the dog will determine overhangs as well) 
to see exactly what's up.  If you are not familiar with an area, and don't 
know if you are dealing with curb, steps. loading dock, etc. this is where 
the commands help and also intelligent disobedience (which I love to 
practice).

I am going to demonstrate by telling you the commands I have learned they 
may vary depending on school.  Dog stops...feels like a curb...I tell my dog 
forward...dogs goes up or down depending of course if up or down curb.  Dog 
stops...feels like curb...tell dog to go forward...dog doesn't move...tap 
curb with foot (or what I think is curb)...tell the dog to go forward...dog 
doesn't move.  I now realize the dog is smarter than me (big grin) and tell 
the dog "forward up" or "forward down" and then dog moves...we are at 
steps/stairs.  None of that works and the dogs says to itself this person 
just doesn't get it and body blocks you or pulls you backwards then...you 
are probably at a loading dock or another type of drop off.

That's my experience and training with both my dogs!!  Audiences love to see 
the dog disobey in an intelligent fashion.

Merry
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Guide Dog then Came

> Thank you guys for these great responses.  I really appreciate the
> feedback, and would love to hear more.
>
> One question that I have always had is, without the cane, how do you
> determine exactly what you are dealing with?  For instance, I know that
> the dog is trained to stop when it comes to a curb or set of steps.  But
> how do you know whether you are dealing with a curb, a set of steps, or
> whether there is a 30 foot drop-off in front of you?  You know what I
> mean?  With a cane, I can reach out and kind of gauge what I've got, but
> I've never quite understood how you would do this with a dog?
>
> Or if you tell them "outside" and they take you to the door, are they
> trained to stop facing the door, or with out the tactile cues of a cane,
> how do you know where the door or trash can or whatever you might be
> looking for is?  I hope these questions aren't sounding too crazy, but
> this has also influenced my decision when considering a transition,
> because I wasn't sure how these things would be dealt with.
>
>
>
> Diane Graves
> Civil Rights Specialist
> Indiana Civil Rights Commission
> Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
> 317-232-2647
>
> "IT is service that measures success."
> George Washington Carver
>
>
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of Merry Schoch
> Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 10:51 AM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Guide Dog then Came
>
> Hi Diane,
>
> When I received my first guide I had only been blind 9 months.  At that
> time
> the school told me I had been the first student to attend that had only
> been
> blind for such a short time.  You are correct that these dogs are not
> trained to attack or guard us; however, dogs are a deterrent to  crime
> whether they be with you on the streets or in your home.  When I was
> learning to use a white cane I took my pet with me on her leash because
> of
> the crime deterrent factor.
>
> I have always loved dogs so deciding to use a guide dog was based on
> this
> fact as well as the crime deterrent.  Was I very knowledgable when I
> made
> this decision, no, but I am glad I made the decision to use the dog.
> There
> are a few things I have notice with myself as well as with other guide
> dog
> users.  The fact that the dog will go around obstacles instead of you
> finding them with your cane and then going around the obstacle seems to
> make
> travelling with a dog, for some, easier.  I, personally, believe that
> one
> should have good cane skills to be a good guide dog users.  It is
> evident
> when watching some guide dog users that their skills in both modes of
> travel
> is poor.
>
> Back to comparing the two modes.  Dogs can be trained to find things
> such as
> doors (glass buildings can be tricky), chairs, bus benches, trash cans,
> etc.
> This skill can be helpful especially in unfamiliar areas.
>
> I have travelled without a dog for 1 1/2 years. I am going to start Grad
>
> school in the Fall and was told yesterday, yeah, that I would have my
> new
> guide before then.  I am using the dog because of the deterrent factor,
> late
> classes in not so good of an area of town, but also because I am once
> again
> ready for the responsibility, companionship, but most of all using this
> mode
> of travel.  When I use a dog and trust the dog, I don't have to focus as
>
> much on avoiding obstacles, curbs, etc.  I let the dog handle that.
> Lazy,
> maybe (big grin)!
>
> Dogs are not for everyone.  There is more work and responsibility when
> using
> a dog.  Can't hang the dog up on a hook when you get home!!  Canes don't
>
> break your heart either.  Dogs have the expense factor as well.
>
> JMHO and experience,
> Merry
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov>
> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 8:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Guide Dog then Came
>
>
>> Good Morning to All,
>>
>> I don't mean to shift the focus at all.  Please continue to submit
>> answers to Anthony's question, but I would also be interested in
>> reversing that question. I do know this is a touchy subject for some,
> so
>> please understand that my interest is genuine, and I'm asking solely
> for
>> my own informational purposes and mobility considerations.,
>>
>> I am wondering what types of things have prompted someone to go from
>> cane use, to dog use, and why it is that they have come to prefer the
>> dog  method.  What is it that you get from a dog that you don't feel
> you
>> get from a cane?
>>
>> I have considered the switch before, and my main reason was the
> barrier
>> I thought it might put between myself and all the crazies out here who
>> are  up to no good.  Of course, we all know that these dogs are not
>> trained as attack dogs or anything remotely like that.  But most of
> the
>> uneducated sighted public doesn't know that.  Most people think that
>> they are. So I thought it might offer some protection in that realm.
>>
>> But of course, we would probably also agree that things get a little
>> more complicated when you have to deal with the responsibility of, and
>> the introduction of a dog into your life, and the lives of others and
> so
>> forth, so I  have always elected not to take the plunge.  But I'm just
>> wondering, from a mobility standpoint, what do you all see as the
>> advantages, or, disadvantages of a dog versus a cane.
>>
>>
>>
>> Diane Graves
>> Civil Rights Specialist
>> Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>> Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>> 317-232-2647
>>
>> "IT is service that measures success."
>> George Washington Carver
>>
>>
>> Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain
>> confidential and/or legally privileged information intended only for
> the
>> individual or entity(ies)
>> named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended recipient, be
>> advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution, or
>> acting in reliance
>> upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have
>> received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to sender to
>> arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission.
>> Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf Of Anthony N. Colon
>> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 6:59 PM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Guide Dog then Came
>>
>> Hi, has anyone out there gone from using a guide dog to just using the
>> white
>> cane?  If you have would you share your reason for doing so?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Tony
>>
>>
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