[Blindtlk] Guide Dog then Came

Wed Jun 3 18:50:23 UTC 2009

Dear Dianne,

That depends on the length of the cane you use and how you use it, but for 
the most part a dog will help you avoid such things without you even knowing 
the obstacles are there.
I have always used a long white cane to travel and know that , as a cane 
traveler, I must "touch" objects  along the way to help me navigate and 
identify where I am at along the trail.
Dogs lead you around objects and are very good at learning routes and how to 
identify such features as doors, steps, elevators and will disobey and order 
if they sense a danger like in crossing streets or construction sites, but 
you still must be the one in charge and know where you are going.
I remember a cartoon of a blind guy asking this stranger how to get to an 
address and the stranger has this road map unfolded on the ground in front 
of this blind guy's guide dog and the stranger is down on his knees drawing 
on the map with his finger with the dog looking very intently at the map as 
the stranger is saying," you go down elm, pass the fire hydrant at fourth 
street and turn north on Maple by the mail box and walk by the butcher shop 
at fifth."
There are pros and cons to both and anyone thinking about it must weigh them 
carefully before they jump in.
The long white cane is very easy to use, ready to go anytime, doesn't need 
feeding, flea treatment, shots and doesn't leave hair or have to be picked 
up after.  The Dog on the other hand does, but also has some pluses too.
The people who use dogs, tend to travel faster and have the added sense of 
protection, true or not, and can get you through crowds and congested areas 
easier and quicker, provide companionship, love and do provide you with a 
very good social "ice breaker" where ever you go.
I have seen many people, with dogs, be approached and complimented on the 
good looking dog.  I have never had anyone come up to me and say " my, that 
is a good looking cane you are carrying there.
Taking on a dog takes a commitment on your part for years and such not be 
taken on lightly but only after educating your self as to what you are 
getting into.
Don't let anyone talk you into it, but make sure you make the decision 
yourself.

David Evans, NFBF
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 7:35 AM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Guide Dog then Came

> Wow!  Now that is cool.  One disadvantage of the cane is definitely
> those overhead obstacles!  OUCH!  Guess it's a good thing I have a hard
> head.
>
>
>
>
> Diane Graves
> Civil Rights Specialist
> Indiana Civil Rights Commission
> Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
> 317-232-2647
>
> "IT is service that measures success."
> George Washington Carver
>
>
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of Mike Sivill
> Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 5:55 PM
> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Guide Dog then Came
>
> Excuse me for laughing when I read this. Of course you can reach out
> your
> hand and touch if you expect to find a door/wall. Typically for ground
> level
> stuff you reach out with your left foot to feel if something is there.
> But
> after a long time of working your dog you'll get accustomed to their
> body
> language and know what they're doing like Plato would slow to a painful
> creep right before an overhead obstacle and stop abruptly and sort of
> turn
> his head toward me at ground level things.
> Mike
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On
> Behalf Of Graves, Diane
> Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 11:27 AM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Guide Dog then Came
>
> Thank you guys for these great responses.  I really appreciate the
> feedback, and would love to hear more.
>
> One question that I have always had is, without the cane, how do you
> determine exactly what you are dealing with?  For instance, I know that
> the dog is trained to stop when it comes to a curb or set of steps.  But
> how do you know whether you are dealing with a curb, a set of steps, or
> whether there is a 30 foot drop-off in front of you?  You know what I
> mean?  With a cane, I can reach out and kind of gauge what I've got, but
> I've never quite understood how you would do this with a dog?
>
> Or if you tell them "outside" and they take you to the door, are they
> trained to stop facing the door, or with out the tactile cues of a cane,
> how do you know where the door or trash can or whatever you might be
> looking for is?  I hope these questions aren't sounding too crazy, but
> this has also influenced my decision when considering a transition,
> because I wasn't sure how these things would be dealt with.
>
>
>
> Diane Graves
> Civil Rights Specialist
> Indiana Civil Rights Commission
> Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
> 317-232-2647
>
> "IT is service that measures success."
> George Washington Carver
>
>
> Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain
> confidential and/or legally privileged information intended only for the
> individual or entity(ies)
> named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended recipient, be
> advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution, or
> acting in reliance
> upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have
> received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to sender to
> arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission.
> Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of Merry Schoch
> Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 10:51 AM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Guide Dog then Came
>
> Hi Diane,
>
> When I received my first guide I had only been blind 9 months.  At that
> time
> the school told me I had been the first student to attend that had only
> been
> blind for such a short time.  You are correct that these dogs are not
> trained to attack or guard us; however, dogs are a deterrent to  crime
> whether they be with you on the streets or in your home.  When I was
> learning to use a white cane I took my pet with me on her leash because
> of
> the crime deterrent factor.
>
> I have always loved dogs so deciding to use a guide dog was based on
> this
> fact as well as the crime deterrent.  Was I very knowledgable when I
> made
> this decision, no, but I am glad I made the decision to use the dog.
> There
> are a few things I have notice with myself as well as with other guide
> dog
> users.  The fact that the dog will go around obstacles instead of you
> finding them with your cane and then going around the obstacle seems to
> make
> travelling with a dog, for some, easier.  I, personally, believe that
> one
> should have good cane skills to be a good guide dog users.  It is
> evident
> when watching some guide dog users that their skills in both modes of
> travel
> is poor.
>
> Back to comparing the two modes.  Dogs can be trained to find things
> such as
> doors (glass buildings can be tricky), chairs, bus benches, trash cans,
> etc.
> This skill can be helpful especially in unfamiliar areas.
>
> I have travelled without a dog for 1 1/2 years. I am going to start Grad
>
> school in the Fall and was told yesterday, yeah, that I would have my
> new
> guide before then.  I am using the dog because of the deterrent factor,
> late
> classes in not so good of an area of town, but also because I am once
> again
> ready for the responsibility, companionship, but most of all using this
> mode
> of travel.  When I use a dog and trust the dog, I don't have to focus as
>
> much on avoiding obstacles, curbs, etc.  I let the dog handle that.
> Lazy,
> maybe (big grin)!
>
> Dogs are not for everyone.  There is more work and responsibility when
> using
> a dog.  Can't hang the dog up on a hook when you get home!!  Canes don't
>
> break your heart either.  Dogs have the expense factor as well.
>
> JMHO and experience,
> Merry
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov>
> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 8:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Guide Dog then Came
>
>
>> Good Morning to All,
>>
>> I don't mean to shift the focus at all.  Please continue to submit
>> answers to Anthony's question, but I would also be interested in
>> reversing that question. I do know this is a touchy subject for some,
> so
>> please understand that my interest is genuine, and I'm asking solely
> for
>> my own informational purposes and mobility considerations.,
>>
>> I am wondering what types of things have prompted someone to go from
>> cane use, to dog use, and why it is that they have come to prefer the
>> dog  method.  What is it that you get from a dog that you don't feel
> you
>> get from a cane?
>>
>> I have considered the switch before, and my main reason was the
> barrier
>> I thought it might put between myself and all the crazies out here who
>> are  up to no good.  Of course, we all know that these dogs are not
>> trained as attack dogs or anything remotely like that.  But most of
> the
>> uneducated sighted public doesn't know that.  Most people think that
>> they are. So I thought it might offer some protection in that realm.
>>
>> But of course, we would probably also agree that things get a little
>> more complicated when you have to deal with the responsibility of, and
>> the introduction of a dog into your life, and the lives of others and
> so
>> forth, so I  have always elected not to take the plunge.  But I'm just
>> wondering, from a mobility standpoint, what do you all see as the
>> advantages, or, disadvantages of a dog versus a cane.
>>
>>
>>
>> Diane Graves
>> Civil Rights Specialist
>> Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>> Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>> 317-232-2647
>>
>> "IT is service that measures success."
>> George Washington Carver
>>
>>
>> Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain
>> confidential and/or legally privileged information intended only for
> the
>> individual or entity(ies)
>> named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended recipient, be
>> advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution, or
>> acting in reliance
>> upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have
>> received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to sender to
>> arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission.
>> Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf Of Anthony N. Colon
>> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 6:59 PM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Guide Dog then Came
>>
>> Hi, has anyone out there gone from using a guide dog to just using the
>> white
>> cane?  If you have would you share your reason for doing so?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Tony
>>
>>
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