[Blindtlk] Guide Dog then Came

Wed Jun 3 11:35:14 UTC 2009

Wow!  Now that is cool.  One disadvantage of the cane is definitely
those overhead obstacles!  OUCH!  Guess it's a good thing I have a hard
head.

Diane Graves
Civil Rights Specialist
Indiana Civil Rights Commission
Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
317-232-2647

"IT is service that measures success."
George Washington Carver

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-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Mike Sivill
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 5:55 PM
To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Guide Dog then Came

Excuse me for laughing when I read this. Of course you can reach out
your
hand and touch if you expect to find a door/wall. Typically for ground
level
stuff you reach out with your left foot to feel if something is there.
But
after a long time of working your dog you'll get accustomed to their
body
language and know what they're doing like Plato would slow to a painful
creep right before an overhead obstacle and stop abruptly and sort of
turn
his head toward me at ground level things.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On
Behalf Of Graves, Diane
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 11:27 AM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Guide Dog then Came

Thank you guys for these great responses.  I really appreciate the
feedback, and would love to hear more.

One question that I have always had is, without the cane, how do you
determine exactly what you are dealing with?  For instance, I know that
the dog is trained to stop when it comes to a curb or set of steps.  But
how do you know whether you are dealing with a curb, a set of steps, or
whether there is a 30 foot drop-off in front of you?  You know what I
mean?  With a cane, I can reach out and kind of gauge what I've got, but
I've never quite understood how you would do this with a dog?

Or if you tell them "outside" and they take you to the door, are they
trained to stop facing the door, or with out the tactile cues of a cane,
how do you know where the door or trash can or whatever you might be
looking for is?  I hope these questions aren't sounding too crazy, but
this has also influenced my decision when considering a transition,
because I wasn't sure how these things would be dealt with.

Diane Graves
Civil Rights Specialist
Indiana Civil Rights Commission
Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
317-232-2647

"IT is service that measures success."
George Washington Carver

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-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Merry Schoch
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 10:51 AM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Guide Dog then Came

Hi Diane,

When I received my first guide I had only been blind 9 months.  At that
time 
the school told me I had been the first student to attend that had only
been 
blind for such a short time.  You are correct that these dogs are not 
trained to attack or guard us; however, dogs are a deterrent to  crime 
whether they be with you on the streets or in your home.  When I was 
learning to use a white cane I took my pet with me on her leash because
of 
the crime deterrent factor.

I have always loved dogs so deciding to use a guide dog was based on
this 
fact as well as the crime deterrent.  Was I very knowledgable when I
made 
this decision, no, but I am glad I made the decision to use the dog.
There 
are a few things I have notice with myself as well as with other guide
dog 
users.  The fact that the dog will go around obstacles instead of you 
finding them with your cane and then going around the obstacle seems to
make 
travelling with a dog, for some, easier.  I, personally, believe that
one 
should have good cane skills to be a good guide dog users.  It is
evident 
when watching some guide dog users that their skills in both modes of
travel 
is poor.

Back to comparing the two modes.  Dogs can be trained to find things
such as 
doors (glass buildings can be tricky), chairs, bus benches, trash cans,
etc. 
This skill can be helpful especially in unfamiliar areas.

I have travelled without a dog for 1 1/2 years. I am going to start Grad

school in the Fall and was told yesterday, yeah, that I would have my
new 
guide before then.  I am using the dog because of the deterrent factor,
late 
classes in not so good of an area of town, but also because I am once
again 
ready for the responsibility, companionship, but most of all using this
mode 
of travel.  When I use a dog and trust the dog, I don't have to focus as

much on avoiding obstacles, curbs, etc.  I let the dog handle that.
Lazy, 
maybe (big grin)!

Dogs are not for everyone.  There is more work and responsibility when
using 
a dog.  Can't hang the dog up on a hook when you get home!!  Canes don't

break your heart either.  Dogs have the expense factor as well.

JMHO and experience,
Merry
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 8:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Guide Dog then Came

> Good Morning to All,
>
> I don't mean to shift the focus at all.  Please continue to submit
> answers to Anthony's question, but I would also be interested in
> reversing that question. I do know this is a touchy subject for some,
so
> please understand that my interest is genuine, and I'm asking solely
for
> my own informational purposes and mobility considerations.,
>
> I am wondering what types of things have prompted someone to go from
> cane use, to dog use, and why it is that they have come to prefer the
> dog  method.  What is it that you get from a dog that you don't feel
you
> get from a cane?
>
> I have considered the switch before, and my main reason was the
barrier
> I thought it might put between myself and all the crazies out here who
> are  up to no good.  Of course, we all know that these dogs are not
> trained as attack dogs or anything remotely like that.  But most of
the
> uneducated sighted public doesn't know that.  Most people think that
> they are. So I thought it might offer some protection in that realm.
>
> But of course, we would probably also agree that things get a little
> more complicated when you have to deal with the responsibility of, and
> the introduction of a dog into your life, and the lives of others and
so
> forth, so I  have always elected not to take the plunge.  But I'm just
> wondering, from a mobility standpoint, what do you all see as the
> advantages, or, disadvantages of a dog versus a cane.
>
>
>
> Diane Graves
> Civil Rights Specialist
> Indiana Civil Rights Commission
> Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
> 317-232-2647
>
> "IT is service that measures success."
> George Washington Carver
>
>
> Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain
> confidential and/or legally privileged information intended only for
the
> individual or entity(ies)
> named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended recipient, be
> advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution, or
> acting in reliance
> upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have
> received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to sender to
> arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission.
> Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of Anthony N. Colon
> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 6:59 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: [Blindtlk] Guide Dog then Came
>
> Hi, has anyone out there gone from using a guide dog to just using the
> white
> cane?  If you have would you share your reason for doing so?
>
> Thanks,
> Tony
>
>
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