[Blindtlk] FW: Alternative Philosophies

Jeff Schwartz sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net
Thu Jun 4 11:01:08 UTC 2009 


-----Original Message-----
From: Jeffrey Schwartz [mailto:sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net] 
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 7:25 PM
To: 'Marion & Martin'; 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
Subject: RE: [Blindtlk] Alternative Philosophies

Psychotherapy is not a spiritual undertaking.  My colleagues and I practice
empirically based paradigms.  You may have heard this term.  It refers to
employing techniques which have proven to be effective based on rigorous,
time consuming study employing the scientific method.  Perhaps you are
familiar with that term.  You know, Newton, Galileo, the Curies, Jonas Salk,
Watson and Crick and other such fearful practitioners of main stream
science.  What is cowardly and dangerous is treating patients with mystical,
esoteric fantasies.  If your techniques are valid, put them to the test.
Spare your susceptible patients to this quackery.  

-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Marion & Martin
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 12:45 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: [Blindtlk] Alternative Philosophies

Trish,
    As a practitioner of Metaphysics, as well as a professional in the field

of Mental Health Counseling with a specialty in Hypnotherapy, as well as a 
facilitator of past life regression, , I completely understand the Law of 
Mind-Action and Chakra energy. Some in the more "mainstream" may ridicule 
such spiritual beliefs, but their ignorance is only their unwillingness to 
accept alternative views. Some think that their limited view of the world 
and of spirituality is the only Truth and have been taught to fear an 
alternative explanation because it threatens those paradigns ability to 
control their believers. Such religious intolerance creates the persecution 
that has been waged in the past to suppress and oppress others. The 
liberating philosophy that we are in control of our destinies and that the 
ultimate goal can be nothing less than the full realization of the expanded 
consciousness takes the control away from the fearmongers who limit the 
Universe by limitedly defining the Creator. In the words of a great 
philosopher, "God created man in its own image and then man returned the 
favor!"

fraternally,
Marion Gwizdala


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 6:47 PM
    Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind


>     Well!  See    ms a lot has transpired since I last "saw you guys!"
> Bad energy, people!  Bad energy!
> Somebody's got a blockage!
> Ok.  I'm done. . .  I'm going to go and grow up now.  And, since I get to 
> come back, I'll talk to you soon (TTYS)
> Thanks, to all, for your back up.
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net
>>To: "'NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>Date sent: Sat, 30 May 2009 20:49:35 -0400
>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>>I'm probably old enough to be your father or grandfather.  You
> sound like a
>>drugged out adolescent with your energy pathways, meridians and
> finally,
>>"perhaps my energy didn't reach your ears".  Your energy wouldn't
> reach my
>>ears if you were in the house next to mine.  Next, you'll be
> talking about
>>astrological signs.  Grow up you foolish child.
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>Behalf Of trishs
>>Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 4:07 PM
>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>>Hey, Schwartz!
>> #1.  When did I "assume that all credible knowledge lies with in
>>Western culture.?"
>>#2.  I "misapplied the vast body of Eastern wisdom", how?"
>> Correct me if I'm wrong, but no where did I see myself
>>disrespectful to Eastern, or Western culture.
>> Being ignorant of customs, I have great respect for Eastern
>>wisdom.  Just brushing the surface, through Massage Therapy
>>training was one of the most interesting, complicated, and
>>difficult things I've ever done.
>> Miss.  chauvinistic, childish, and ignorant hear, never made any
>>such claim.  I mentioned the words touch, intension, energy, and
>>meridian.  So.  Because you've never heard of a meridian, I don't
>>know what I'm talking about?
>> I'd be willing to bet there's an Eastern word for things like
>>your defensive name calling.  In Western terms, it's called Get a
>>grip!
>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net
>>>To: "'NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>Date sent: Sat, 30 May 2009 09:18:49 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>>>It is chauvinistic to assume that all credible  knowledge resides
>>within
>>>Western culture.  It is childish and ignorant to misapply the
>>vast body of
>>>Eastern wisdom.
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>Behalf Of trishs
>>>Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 11:29 PM
>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>>>Excuse me.  Perhaps my words touched your ears, and you've
>>>misunderstood them?  Or, perhaps I wasn't quite following the
>>>thread?  It's possible.  I make mistakes from time to time, too.
>>>No worries!
>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net
>>>>To: "'NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>Date sent: Thu, 28 May 2009 17:25:41 -0400
>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>>>>Sorry, but I still have no idea what you are talking about, nor
>>>do you.
>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>Behalf Of trishs
>>>>Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 7:28 AM
>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>>>>This applied to the intension of touch.
>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net
>>>>>To: "'NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>Date sent: Wed, 27 May 2009 17:11:23 -0400
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>>>>>And just what does this have to do with touching or being
>>>>touched?  Can you
>>>>>tell which organ someone is touching you with by its energy
>>>>pathway?
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>Behalf Of trishs
>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 12:15 PM
>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>>>>>In Eastern medicine it's called a meridian.  There are energy
>>>>>channels which correspond to each body organ, which Eastern
>>>>>cultures have mapped for about as long as there's been medicine.
>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net
>>>>>>To: "'NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 26 May 2009 21:09:33 -0400
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>>>>>>What in the world is an "energy Pathway"
>
>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>Behalf Of trishs
>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 11:51 AM
>>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>>>>>>As far as "across the board answers", and people getting "mad",
>>>>>>we each have the power and self responsibility to say I'm
>>>>>>uncomfortable with that," or "Stop it! That's inappropriate!"  Or
>>>>>>"Could you do that again?"  I feel as though I can speak for most
>>>>>>people when I say that we have all been in situations where a
>>>>>>person's touch "creeped us out", or made us want more.  There are
>>>>>>many types of touch, and it is ALL ABOUT INTENSION, which is
>>>>>>carried through invisible energy pathways.
>>>>>>There are also times when we misunderstand, or misinterpret
>>>>>>someone's touch.  It can be difficult to navigate these energy
>>>>>>pathways, so your power is in your own intension for your own
>>>>>>comfort level.
>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>From: "Steve P.  Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com
>>>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 26 May 2009 08:47:07 -0400
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>>>>>>>It has nothing to do with blindness in my case.  I just hate
>>>>>>being touched.
>
>>>>>>>Steve
>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>From: "dewey bradley" <dewey.bradley at gmail.com
>>>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 8:40 PM
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>
>>>>>>>> Allot of sighted people think that they can't talk to us without
>>>>>>putting
>>>>>>>> there hands on us.
>>>>>>>> The thing is allot of people like my self really hate to be
>>>>>>touched, When
>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>> ask them to please take there hands off, they get mad.
>>>>>>>> I guess there is no across the board answer for things like
>>>>>>this.
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Steve P.  Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com
>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 10:42 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>
>>>>>>>>> This is a very complicated topic.  There are those, like me, who
>>>>>>don't
>>>>>>>>> like being touched during conversations with individuals I
>>>>>>really don't
>>>>>>>>> know very well.  I'm wondering if blind individuals understand
>>>>>>spacial
>>>>>>>>> concepts during conversations.  You don't want to be too close
>>>>>>during a
>>>>>>>>> conversation or too far away.  I suspect most of us who
>>>>>>understand this
>>>>>>>>> art have had some coaching from sighted individuals whom they
>>>>>>trust.
>>>>>>>>> \
>>>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net
>>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:46 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>
>>>>>>>>>>I was raised giving and receiving warm hand shakes, or in some
>>>>>>>>>> situations, embraces and or kisses, all of which seem to me to
>>>>>>be
>>>>>>>>>> quite germ spreading!  I like the bowing idea a lot!
>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>From: Joel Zimba <jzimba at cavtel.net
>>>>>>>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Sat, 23 May 2009 17:08:35 -0400
>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>>>>>>>>>>>Hi,
>
>>>>>>>>>>>I love these kinds of topics.  I believe the issue of blind or
>>>>>>>>>> sighted
>>>>>>>>>>>is mostly meaningless when it comes to whether you should touch
>>>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>>>or not.  It comes down more to how comfortable you are with what
>>>>>>>>>> you are
>>>>>>>>>>>doing and your motivation for it.
>
>>>>>>>>>>>The examples of folks talking with their hands is a great one.
>>>>>>>>>> It's not
>>>>>>>>>>>so much that they talk with their hands, but that touching is a
>>>>>>>>>> means of
>>>>>>>>>>>communication.  In fact, if you are comfortable enough with
>>>>>>>>>> yurself to
>>>>>>>>>>>touch someone else while speaking to them, you'll pull them into
>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>paradigm.  This is common wisdom in the sales world.
>
>>>>>>>>>>>For the blind among us, (myself included) this is most easily
>>>>>>>>>> donw with
>>>>>>>>>>>the back of the hand and making solid contact.
>
>>>>>>>>>>>When it comes to shaking hands, I decided to take the initiative
>>>>>>>>>> early
>>>>>>>>>>>and often.  When someone doesn't take my hand, I leave it out
>>>>>>>>>> there and
>>>>>>>>>>>then eventually start snapping my fingers.  This calls attention
>>>>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>>>>>>fact that the other people are not playing the social game.  I
>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>taught that it is not obligatory for women to shake hands.  Long
>>>>>>>>>> ago I
>>>>>>>>>>>decided that if women want equal rights, they can do the glad
>>>>>>>>>> handing as
>>>>>>>>>>>well, so I expect them to shake and I do the snapping as well.  I
>>>>>>>>>>>sometimes let the elderly off the hook, though oddly, the older
>>>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>>>is, the more likely they are to initiate or take my hand.  Proper
>>>>>>>>>>>conduct seems to not always be taught to the younger generation.
>>>>>>>>>> Maybe
>>>>>>>>>>>we all need to go back to finishing school.
>
>>>>>>>>>>>Now, if someone could explain the bowing protocol to me so that
>>>>>>>>>> my Asian
>>>>>>>>>>>friends would be surprised and pleased by my manners, I would be
>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>>>greatful.
>
>>>>>>>>>>>Joel
>
>>>>>>>>>>>On 5/23/2009 12:40 PM, Jeffrey Schwartz wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Gerardo,
>>>>>>>>>>>> I am also blind as a result of RP and a clinical psychologist.
>>>>>>>>>> My vision
>>>>>>>>>>>> deteriorated at a different pace.  I drove a car until I was 27
>>>>>>>>>> and did not
>>>>>>>>>>>> require adaptive technology to read and write until I was about
>>>>>>>>>> 40.  Now, at
>>>>>>>>>>>> 61, I have little more than light perception.  When younger, I
>>>>>>>>>> was often
>>>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed when my wife kindly noted that someone was reaching
>>>>>>>>>> out to shake
>>>>>>>>>>>> my hand and I was not noticing.  Eventually, I learned to avoid
>>>>>>>>>> this problem
>>>>>>>>>>>> by taking the initiative.  On occasion I reach out to discover
>>>>>>>>>> that the
>>>>>>>>>>>> person has quickly turned their back or departed, no big deal.
>>>>>>>>>> I have had
>>>>>>>>>>>> no experience with the touching.  There are cultural 
>>>>>>>>>>>> differences
>>>>>>>>>> in such
>>>>>>>>>>>> nonverbal behaviors.  For example, cultures vary in terms of
>>>>>>>>>> what is
>>>>>>>>>>>> regarded as personal space.  Groups vary in terms of how close
>>>>>>>>>> they stand to
>>>>>>>>>>>> each other when speaking, and also with regard to touching 
>>>>>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>>> is common
>>>>>>>>>>>> in some cultures and taboo in others.  Perhaps your blindness
>>>>>>>>>> has led you to
>>>>>>>>>>>> exceed what is common in your culture or your parents may have
>>>>>>>>>> felt bad for
>>>>>>>>>>>> you when they saw you reach out to touch someone and the person
>>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>>>> departed.  There are also a group of behaviors known as
>>>>>>>>>> blindisms.  We all
>>>>>>>>>>>> conduct little rituals of personal hygiene when alone which we
>>>>>>>>>> would not do
>>>>>>>>>>>> in front of others.  There is a tendency, particularly if one
>>>>>>>>>> loses their
>>>>>>>>>>>> vision gradually to assume that others see as we do.  I am 
>>>>>>>>>>>> often
>>>>>>>>>> surprised
>>>>>>>>>>>> by what others can see.  We assume that if we can't see
>>>>>>>>>> something others can
>>>>>>>>>>>> not either.  This can lead us to embarrass ourselves by
>>>>>>>>>> performing these
>>>>>>>>>>>> grooming rituals in public.  Recently, I have noticed that when
>>>>>>>>>> I am walking
>>>>>>>>>>>> and thinking about a conversation which I had or will have with
>>>>>>>>>> someone, I
>>>>>>>>>>>> am moving my lips as if I were speaking.  I am working on
>>>>>>>>>> suppressing this
>>>>>>>>>>>> behavior as I am certain that the sighted would see it as
>>>>>>>>>> strange.  Behavior
>>>>>>>>>>>> is so ritualized, and blindness can lead us to engage in some
>>>>>>>>>> peculiar ones.
>>>>>>>>>>>> As professionals, in particular, we don't want to be seen as 
>>>>>>>>>>>> odd
>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>> idiosyncratic.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jeff
>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Cindy Handel
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 9:55 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Gerardo,
>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Most of the time, when I would like to shake the hand of a
>>>>>>>>>> sighted person, I
>
>>>>>>>>>>>> just extend my hand and they grasp it and we shake hands.
>
>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as touching the arm of people, I've never done this.
>>>>>>>>>> When do you do
>>>>>>>>>>>> this?  If you're talking with someone, it shouldn't be
>>>>>>>>>> necessary, since
>>>>>>>>>>>> they're participating in the conversation.  I think we've all
>>>>>>>>>> experienced a
>>>>>>>>>>>> time when we're talking to someone and learn that they walked
>>>>>>>>>> away.  Now, if
>
>>>>>>>>>>>> you're referring to touching a person's arm to make sure 
>>>>>>>>>>>> they're
>>>>>>>>>> still there
>
>>>>>>>>>>>> as a way to insure that you still have their attention, that's
>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>>> different.  I have met sighted people who talk with their hands
>>>>>>>>>> and touch my
>
>>>>>>>>>>>> arm or shoulder, for emphasis.  So, that might not be so
>>>>>>>>>> unusual.
>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cindy
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Gerardo Corripio"<gera1027 at prodigy.net.mx
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "Blind-Talk"<blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 11:35 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
>
>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi listers:
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm Gerardo from Mexico; 31 years old and a Psychologist 
>>>>>>>>>>>> working
>>>>>>>>>> on my own
>>>>>>>>>>>> in my private practice.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hopefully I'll be able to learn lots of great things from you
>>>>>>>>>> guys,
>>>>>>>>>>>> especially of the NFB way of viewing and living with blindness.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Now for my debut question: I've been blind all my life due to
>>>>>>>>>> RP; since I
>>>>>>>>>>>> was a teenager I remember developing a habbit of touching the
>>>>>>>>>> arm of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> people constanly to be sure he/she was still there.  I 
>>>>>>>>>>>> continued
>>>>>>>>>> to do this
>>>>>>>>>>>> into adulthood until my family made the observation that this
>>>>>>>>>> behavior isn't
>>>>>>>>>>>> seen well by the sighted only a few days ago.  I'm still 
>>>>>>>>>>>> shocked
>>>>>>>>>> by this
>>>>>>>>>>>> observation to the point that now how to know if the person is
>>>>>>>>>> still there?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, the voice gives feedback but when people talk it feels as
>>>>>>>>>> if they're
>>>>>>>>>>>> there but aren't there.  How have you coped with this situation
>>>>>>>>>> in that you
>>>>>>>>>>>> have to get rid of the habbit before-mentioned? Surely it has
>>>>>>>>>> happened to
>>>>>>>>>>>> some of you?
>>>>>>>>>>>> also when shaking hands with sighted people how to find the 
>>>>>>>>>>>> hand
>>>>>>>>>> to shake if
>>>>>>>>>>>> the sighted person doesn't take the initiative?
>>>>>>>>>>>> As you can see I've still have lots of tips and tricks to learn
>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>> blindness, thus my interest in joining the list.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Gerardo
>
>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
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>
>
>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/cindy42
>>>>>>>>>> 5%40verizon
>>>>>>>>>>>> .net
>
>
>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>
>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/sidney.
>>>>>>>>>> schwartz%40
>>>>>>>>>>>> sbcglobal.net
>
>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
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>
>
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>>>>>>>>>> %40metrocast.net
>
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>>>>>>deeley%40insightbb.com
>
>
>
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>
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>>>>>>Date:
>>>>>>>>> 05/24/09
>>>>>>>>> 07:09:00
>
>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>
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>
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