[Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind

Mon May 25 16:42:19 UTC 2009

This is a very complicated topic.  There are those, like me, who don't like 
being touched during conversations with individuals I really don't know very 
well.  I'm wondering if blind individuals understand spacial concepts during 
conversations.  You don't want to be too close during a conversation or too 
far away.  I suspect most of us who understand this art have had some 
coaching from sighted individuals whom they trust.
\
Steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind


>I was raised giving and receiving warm hand shakes, or in some
> situations, embraces and or kisses, all of which seem to me to be
> quite germ spreading!  I like the bowing idea a lot!
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>From: Joel Zimba <jzimba at cavtel.net
>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>Date sent: Sat, 23 May 2009 17:08:35 -0400
>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>>Hi,
>
>>I love these kinds of topics.  I believe the issue of blind or
> sighted
>>is mostly meaningless when it comes to whether you should touch
> someone
>>or not.  It comes down more to how comfortable you are with what
> you are
>>doing and your motivation for it.
>
>>The examples of folks talking with their hands is a great one.
> It's not
>>so much that they talk with their hands, but that touching is a
> means of
>>communication.  In fact, if you are comfortable enough with
> yurself to
>>touch someone else while speaking to them, you'll pull them into
> your
>>paradigm.  This is common wisdom in the sales world.
>
>>For the blind among us, (myself included) this is most easily
> donw with
>>the back of the hand and making solid contact.
>
>>When it comes to shaking hands, I decided to take the initiative
> early
>>and often.  When someone doesn't take my hand, I leave it out
> there and
>>then eventually start snapping my fingers.  This calls attention
> to the
>>fact that the other people are not playing the social game.  I
> was
>>taught that it is not obligatory for women to shake hands.  Long
> ago I
>>decided that if women want equal rights, they can do the glad
> handing as
>>well, so I expect them to shake and I do the snapping as well.  I
>>sometimes let the elderly off the hook, though oddly, the older
> someone
>>is, the more likely they are to initiate or take my hand.  Proper
>>conduct seems to not always be taught to the younger generation.
> Maybe
>>we all need to go back to finishing school.
>
>>Now, if someone could explain the bowing protocol to me so that
> my Asian
>>friends would be surprised and pleased by my manners, I would be
> very
>>greatful.
>
>>Joel
>
>>On 5/23/2009 12:40 PM, Jeffrey Schwartz wrote:
>>> Hi Gerardo,
>>> I am also blind as a result of RP and a clinical psychologist.
> My vision
>>> deteriorated at a different pace.  I drove a car until I was 27
> and did not
>>> require adaptive technology to read and write until I was about
> 40.  Now, at
>>> 61, I have little more than light perception.  When younger, I
> was often
>>> embarrassed when my wife kindly noted that someone was reaching
> out to shake
>>> my hand and I was not noticing.  Eventually, I learned to avoid
> this problem
>>> by taking the initiative.  On occasion I reach out to discover
> that the
>>> person has quickly turned their back or departed, no big deal.
> I have had
>>> no experience with the touching.  There are cultural differences
> in such
>>> nonverbal behaviors.  For example, cultures vary in terms of
> what is
>>> regarded as personal space.  Groups vary in terms of how close
> they stand to
>>> each other when speaking, and also with regard to touching which
> is common
>>> in some cultures and taboo in others.  Perhaps your blindness
> has led you to
>>> exceed what is common in your culture or your parents may have
> felt bad for
>>> you when they saw you reach out to touch someone and the person
> had
>>> departed.  There are also a group of behaviors known as
> blindisms.  We all
>>> conduct little rituals of personal hygiene when alone which we
> would not do
>>> in front of others.  There is a tendency, particularly if one
> loses their
>>> vision gradually to assume that others see as we do.  I am often
> surprised
>>> by what others can see.  We assume that if we can't see
> something others can
>>> not either.  This can lead us to embarrass ourselves by
> performing these
>>> grooming rituals in public.  Recently, I have noticed that when
> I am walking
>>> and thinking about a conversation which I had or will have with
> someone, I
>>> am moving my lips as if I were speaking.  I am working on
> suppressing this
>>> behavior as I am certain that the sighted would see it as
> strange.  Behavior
>>> is so ritualized, and blindness can lead us to engage in some
> peculiar ones.
>>> As professionals, in particular, we don't want to be seen as odd
> or
>>> idiosyncratic.
>>> Jeff
>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Cindy Handel
>>> Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 9:55 AM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
>
>>> Gerardo,
>
>>> Most of the time, when I would like to shake the hand of a
> sighted person, I
>
>>> just extend my hand and they grasp it and we shake hands.
>
>>> As far as touching the arm of people, I've never done this.
> When do you do
>>> this?  If you're talking with someone, it shouldn't be
> necessary, since
>>> they're participating in the conversation.  I think we've all
> experienced a
>>> time when we're talking to someone and learn that they walked
> away.  Now, if
>
>>> you're referring to touching a person's arm to make sure they're
> still there
>
>>> as a way to insure that you still have their attention, that's
> something
>>> different.  I have met sighted people who talk with their hands
> and touch my
>
>>> arm or shoulder, for emphasis.  So, that might not be so
> unusual.
>
>>> Cindy
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Gerardo Corripio"<gera1027 at prodigy.net.mx
>>> To: "Blind-Talk"<blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 11:35 PM
>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
>
>
>>> Hi listers:
>>> I'm Gerardo from Mexico; 31 years old and a Psychologist working
> on my own
>>> in my private practice.
>>> Hopefully I'll be able to learn lots of great things from you
> guys,
>>> especially of the NFB way of viewing and living with blindness.
>>> Now for my debut question: I've been blind all my life due to
> RP; since I
>>> was a teenager I remember developing a habbit of touching the
> arm of the
>>> people constanly to be sure he/she was still there.  I continued
> to do this
>>> into adulthood until my family made the observation that this
> behavior isn't
>>> seen well by the sighted only a few days ago.  I'm still shocked
> by this
>>> observation to the point that now how to know if the person is
> still there?
>>> Yes, the voice gives feedback but when people talk it feels as
> if they're
>>> there but aren't there.  How have you coped with this situation
> in that you
>>> have to get rid of the habbit before-mentioned? Surely it has
> happened to
>>> some of you?
>>> also when shaking hands with sighted people how to find the hand
> to shake if
>>> the sighted person doesn't take the initiative?
>>> As you can see I've still have lots of tips and tricks to learn
> about
>>> blindness, thus my interest in joining the list.
>>> Gerardo
>
>
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