[Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
trishs
slosser at metrocast.net
Wed May 27 16:15:10 UTC 2009
That's going in the book!
> ----- Original Message -----
>From: "dewey bradley" <dewey.bradley at gmail.com
>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Tue, 26 May 2009 23:14:40 -0600
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>It's just like yesterday, I was at taco bell.
>I asked If anyone was sitting at the table, I got no response.
>Well the guy had a mouth full of food, I was putting my tray down
when he
>said something.
>We both got a good laugh from that one.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Chasity Jackson" <chasityvanda at charter.net
>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 9:29 PM
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>> Oh Gary. I totally can relate there. The other day, Hadley and
I were
>> taking a walk around the area. We turned down a street, and
just as we
>> turned, someone said, "Hi," and I loudly said, "Hi," back to
them, because
>> I was startled. They said, "How are you?" I said, "I'm fine
thanks, and
>> you?" And then they went into their conversation with the person
they were
>> apparently on the phone with. LOL.
>> Another thing that I don't know whether it has been brought up
yet or not
>> is this...If you're totally blind and a person silently walks
away. And
>> you're still talking to them. I, as a partial, have been guilty
of doing
>> that to totally blind friends. I will just walk to another room
and not
>> think much about it. LOL.
>> I also wanted to comment on what Cindy mentioned, about thinking
a person
>> is talking to you, when in reality they are talking to someone
in the same
>> direction. I've had that happen several times. I might be in a
line, and
>> someone says, "May I help you?" And no one answers, so I just
ask, "I'm
>> sorry, are you talking to me?" and usually the answer is yes.
>> Chas
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Gary Wunder" <gwunder at earthlink.net
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 8:37 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>> Yes, that happens to me too. Another funny thing that happens
in that
>>> regard is to be walking down the hallway, hear somebody talking
a few
>>> yards away, try intensely to figure out where the person is they
are
>>> talking with, and then realize they are talking on the telephone
and
>>> there's no one to avoid but them.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "dewey bradley" <dewey.bradley at gmail.com
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 8:29 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>> Also when someone is on the phone, and you think they are
speaking to
>>>> you.
>>>> I'm shore we all get that.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Cindy Handel" <cindy425 at verizon.net
>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 12:21 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>> Diane,
>>>>> I am not a person who readily hugs or touches others. But, I
don't
>>>>> mind if
>>>>> someone touches my arm or wants a hug. I think, when it comes
to
>>>>> someone,
>>>>> like a waitress speaking, it would be easier if they would touch
a
>>>>> shoulder
>>>>> or my hand. There have been times when someone is talking to
me, but I
>>>>> didn't know it, or they might have been talking to someone else,
near
>>>>> me,
>>>>> and I respond. That's sometimes difficult. Most of the time,
you can
>>>>> tell
>>>>> if someone is looking toward you when they're speaking. But, if
>>>>> there's
>>>>> someone else, in the same direction, it's hard to know,
specifically,
>>>>> who
>>>>> they're looking at.
>>>>> This is turning out to be a very interesting topic.
>>>>> Cindy
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov
>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:41 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>> HI Paul,
>>>>> This is an interesting topic and it also gets pretty
complicated, at
>>>>> least where I am concerned.
>>>>> As far as your question about making that initial contact, I
would say
>>>>> it is very appropriate. I would most certainly prefer a light
touch on
>>>>> my shoulder than having someone talk to someone who is with me,
>>>>> inquiring as to what I might like to order, as if I weren't
there, or
>>>>> as
>>>>> if I were a child. I do not object to this at all.
>>>>> I have noted in this discussion that there are several people
who have
>>>>> said they don't like to be touched. I have the opposite
problem.
>>>>> Whether it has anything to do with blindness or not, I really
don't
>>>>> know, but I am a person who is tactile, and or affectionate with
people
>>>>> that I know.
>>>>> This is gotten me crossways with several people, as I have
learned,
>>>>> sometimes the hard way, that some of us don't' appreciate being
>>>>> touched.
>>>>> As a tactile person myself, that is something that I have a real
hard
>>>>> time fathoming or remembering. I don't grab and cling to
strangers by
>>>>> any means, but when there is a person who I know, like or
associate
>>>>> with, it is not uncommon for me to reach out and want to hug
someone or
>>>>> look at their hairstyle, or place a hand gently on their arm or
>>>>> shoulder
>>>>> when speaking to them. I also welcome warm handshakes, hugs,
and the
>>>>> like from those whom I consider friends and associates. I have
had to
>>>>> learn that some people object to this, and it isn't always easy
to
>>>>> remember.
>>>>> Now, like I said, it gets complicated, because what I do object
to is
>>>>> those well meaning sighted people, many of them strangers, who
want to
>>>>> grab me or my clothes or coat or whatever, thinking that they
are
>>>>> helping to guide me or saving me from falling off a curb or
something
>>>>> like that.
>>>>> There is a lady who does this every day at the bus stop in the
evening,
>>>>> and I just want to slap her sometimes. They wouldn't take
liberties
>>>>> with and/or manhandle a sighted person like that, and I do not
>>>>> appreciate it either.
>>>>> Diane Graves
>>>>> Civil Rights Specialist
>>>>> Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>>>>> Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>>>>> 317-232-2647
>>>>> "IT is service that measures success."
>>>>> George Washington Carver
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>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>> On Behalf Of Weingartner, Paul
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:02 AM
>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>> This is an interesting topic that is very helpful because of the
>>>>> candidness of the respondents. Because of that I would like to
ask a
>>>>> question.
>>>>> Sighted people use eye contact to initiate communication.
Obviously,
>>>>> that does not work for initiating communication with a person
who is
>>>>> blind. That is why it is awkward for a waitress in a restaurant
or for
>>>>> a stranger in a mall to make first contact in a way to know the
speaker
>>>>> is addressing the person who is blind.
>>>>> A number of totally blind friends recommend a light quick touch
to let
>>>>> them know they are the person being addressed, so that is what I
>>>>> recommend. I was wondering what some or you think.
>>>>> Also, many people who are totally blind like to hold and cling
during a
>>>>> conversation. That can get pretty awkward and down right
embarrassing
>>>>> a
>>>>> times.
>>>>> I would appreciate your thoughts.
>>>>> Paul Weingartner
>>>>> Making the Cross Accessible
>>>>> Center for the Blind of the Assemblies of God
>>>>> P 417.831.1964 F 417.862.5120
>>>>> www.blind.ag.org
>>>>> www.blindonline.ag.org
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>> On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 7:47 AM
>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>> It has nothing to do with blindness in my case. I just hate
being
>>>>> touched.
>>>>> Steve
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "dewey bradley" <dewey.bradley at gmail.com
>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 8:40 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>> Allot of sighted people think that they can't talk to us without
>>>>> putting
>>>>>> there hands on us.
>>>>>> The thing is allot of people like my self really hate to be
touched,
>>>>> When
>>>>>> we
>>>>>> ask them to please take there hands off, they get mad.
>>>>>> I guess there is no across the board answer for things like
this.
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com
>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 10:42 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>>> This is a very complicated topic. There are those, like me, who
>>>>> don't
>>>>>>> like being touched during conversations with individuals I
really
>>>>> don't
>>>>>>> know very well. I'm wondering if blind individuals understand
>>>>> spacial
>>>>>>> concepts during conversations. You don't want to be too close
during
>>>>> a
>>>>>>> conversation or too far away. I suspect most of us who
understand
>>>>> this
>>>>>>> art have had some coaching from sighted individuals whom they
trust.
>>>>>>> \
>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net
>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:46 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>>>>I was raised giving and receiving warm hand shakes, or in some
>>>>>>>> situations, embraces and or kisses, all of which seem to me to
be
>>>>>>>> quite germ spreading! I like the bowing idea a lot!
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>From: Joel Zimba <jzimba at cavtel.net
>>>>>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Sat, 23 May 2009 17:08:35 -0400
>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>>>>>I love these kinds of topics. I believe the issue of blind or
>>>>>>>> sighted
>>>>>>>>>is mostly meaningless when it comes to whether you should touch
>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>or not. It comes down more to how comfortable you are with what
>>>>>>>> you are
>>>>>>>>>doing and your motivation for it.
>>>>>>>>>The examples of folks talking with their hands is a great one.
>>>>>>>> It's not
>>>>>>>>>so much that they talk with their hands, but that touching is a
>>>>>>>> means of
>>>>>>>>>communication. In fact, if you are comfortable enough with
>>>>>>>> yurself to
>>>>>>>>>touch someone else while speaking to them, you'll pull them into
>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>paradigm. This is common wisdom in the sales world.
>>>>>>>>>For the blind among us, (myself included) this is most easily
>>>>>>>> donw with
>>>>>>>>>the back of the hand and making solid contact.
>>>>>>>>>When it comes to shaking hands, I decided to take the initiative
>>>>>>>> early
>>>>>>>>>and often. When someone doesn't take my hand, I leave it out
>>>>>>>> there and
>>>>>>>>>then eventually start snapping my fingers. This calls attention
>>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>>>>fact that the other people are not playing the social game. I
>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>taught that it is not obligatory for women to shake hands. Long
>>>>>>>> ago I
>>>>>>>>>decided that if women want equal rights, they can do the glad
>>>>>>>> handing as
>>>>>>>>>well, so I expect them to shake and I do the snapping as well. I
>>>>>>>>>sometimes let the elderly off the hook, though oddly, the older
>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>is, the more likely they are to initiate or take my hand. Proper
>>>>>>>>>conduct seems to not always be taught to the younger generation.
>>>>>>>> Maybe
>>>>>>>>>we all need to go back to finishing school.
>>>>>>>>>Now, if someone could explain the bowing protocol to me so that
>>>>>>>> my Asian
>>>>>>>>>friends would be surprised and pleased by my manners, I would be
>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>greatful.
>>>>>>>>>Joel
>>>>>>>>>On 5/23/2009 12:40 PM, Jeffrey Schwartz wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Gerardo,
>>>>>>>>>> I am also blind as a result of RP and a clinical psychologist.
>>>>>>>> My vision
>>>>>>>>>> deteriorated at a different pace. I drove a car until I was 27
>>>>>>>> and did not
>>>>>>>>>> require adaptive technology to read and write until I was about
>>>>>>>> 40. Now, at
>>>>>>>>>> 61, I have little more than light perception. When younger, I
>>>>>>>> was often
>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed when my wife kindly noted that someone was reaching
>>>>>>>> out to shake
>>>>>>>>>> my hand and I was not noticing. Eventually, I learned to avoid
>>>>>>>> this problem
>>>>>>>>>> by taking the initiative. On occasion I reach out to discover
>>>>>>>> that the
>>>>>>>>>> person has quickly turned their back or departed, no big deal.
>>>>>>>> I have had
>>>>>>>>>> no experience with the touching. There are cultural differences
>>>>>>>> in such
>>>>>>>>>> nonverbal behaviors. For example, cultures vary in terms of
>>>>>>>> what is
>>>>>>>>>> regarded as personal space. Groups vary in terms of how close
>>>>>>>> they stand to
>>>>>>>>>> each other when speaking, and also with regard to touching which
>>>>>>>> is common
>>>>>>>>>> in some cultures and taboo in others. Perhaps your blindness
>>>>>>>> has led you to
>>>>>>>>>> exceed what is common in your culture or your parents may have
>>>>>>>> felt bad for
>>>>>>>>>> you when they saw you reach out to touch someone and the person
>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>> departed. There are also a group of behaviors known as
>>>>>>>> blindisms. We all
>>>>>>>>>> conduct little rituals of personal hygiene when alone which we
>>>>>>>> would not do
>>>>>>>>>> in front of others. There is a tendency, particularly if one
>>>>>>>> loses their
>>>>>>>>>> vision gradually to assume that others see as we do. I am often
>>>>>>>> surprised
>>>>>>>>>> by what others can see. We assume that if we can't see
>>>>>>>> something others can
>>>>>>>>>> not either. This can lead us to embarrass ourselves by
>>>>>>>> performing these
>>>>>>>>>> grooming rituals in public. Recently, I have noticed that when
>>>>>>>> I am walking
>>>>>>>>>> and thinking about a conversation which I had or will have with
>>>>>>>> someone, I
>>>>>>>>>> am moving my lips as if I were speaking. I am working on
>>>>>>>> suppressing this
>>>>>>>>>> behavior as I am certain that the sighted would see it as
>>>>>>>> strange. Behavior
>>>>>>>>>> is so ritualized, and blindness can lead us to engage in some
>>>>>>>> peculiar ones.
>>>>>>>>>> As professionals, in particular, we don't want to be seen as odd
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>> idiosyncratic.
>>>>>>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Cindy Handel
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 9:55 AM
>>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>>>>>> Gerardo,
>>>>>>>>>> Most of the time, when I would like to shake the hand of a
>>>>>>>> sighted person, I
>>>>>>>>>> just extend my hand and they grasp it and we shake hands.
>>>>>>>>>> As far as touching the arm of people, I've never done this.
>>>>>>>> When do you do
>>>>>>>>>> this? If you're talking with someone, it shouldn't be
>>>>>>>> necessary, since
>>>>>>>>>> they're participating in the conversation. I think we've all
>>>>>>>> experienced a
>>>>>>>>>> time when we're talking to someone and learn that they walked
>>>>>>>> away. Now, if
>>>>>>>>>> you're referring to touching a person's arm to make sure they're
>>>>>>>> still there
>>>>>>>>>> as a way to insure that you still have their attention, that's
>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>> different. I have met sighted people who talk with their hands
>>>>>>>> and touch my
>>>>>>>>>> arm or shoulder, for emphasis. So, that might not be so
>>>>>>>> unusual.
>>>>>>>>>> Cindy
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Gerardo Corripio"<gera1027 at prodigy.net.mx
>>>>>>>>>> To: "Blind-Talk"<blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 11:35 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>>>>>> Hi listers:
>>>>>>>>>> I'm Gerardo from Mexico; 31 years old and a Psychologist working
>>>>>>>> on my own
>>>>>>>>>> in my private practice.
>>>>>>>>>> Hopefully I'll be able to learn lots of great things from you
>>>>>>>> guys,
>>>>>>>>>> especially of the NFB way of viewing and living with blindness.
>>>>>>>>>> Now for my debut question: I've been blind all my life due to
>>>>>>>> RP; since I
>>>>>>>>>> was a teenager I remember developing a habbit of touching the
>>>>>>>> arm of the
>>>>>>>>>> people constanly to be sure he/she was still there. I continued
>>>>>>>> to do this
>>>>>>>>>> into adulthood until my family made the observation that this
>>>>>>>> behavior isn't
>>>>>>>>>> seen well by the sighted only a few days ago. I'm still shocked
>>>>>>>> by this
>>>>>>>>>> observation to the point that now how to know if the person is
>>>>>>>> still there?
>>>>>>>>>> Yes, the voice gives feedback but when people talk it feels as
>>>>>>>> if they're
>>>>>>>>>> there but aren't there. How have you coped with this situation
>>>>>>>> in that you
>>>>>>>>>> have to get rid of the habbit before-mentioned? Surely it has
>>>>>>>> happened to
>>>>>>>>>> some of you?
>>>>>>>>>> also when shaking hands with sighted people how to find the hand
>>>>>>>> to shake if
>>>>>>>>>> the sighted person doesn't take the initiative?
>>>>>>>>>> As you can see I've still have lots of tips and tricks to learn
>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>> blindness, thus my interest in joining the list.
>>>>>>>>>> Gerardo
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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