[Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind

Thu May 28 17:37:10 UTC 2009

Yep, I've felt like that a time or two, and the creeps that I have emt are 
not limited to the sighted.
Sarah
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 7:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind


> There is much in appearing confident.  I'm wondering if other blind people 
> have felt as I have, like I'm a "creep magnet."
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>From: "dewey bradley" <dewey.bradley at gmail.com
>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>Date sent: Tue, 26 May 2009 19:26:42 -0600
>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>>I got into a fist fight with a guy at the bus station here about
> 4 months
>>ago.
>>I was asking a bus driver a question, a guy kept patting me on
> the sholder.
>>I asked him very nice about 3 times to please quit touching me.
>>He kept on doing It.
>>I had to snap at him after a while, then he followed me to my bus
> cussing at
>>me.
>>He came on my bus and said that he was going to punch me in my
> head, that's
>>when I did that to him.
>>Everyone was saying that He should have stopped when I asked him
> to.
>>But that made me and all blind people look like jerks, but enough
> is enough.
>>Even the gard at the station told him to not put his hands on
> people.
>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov
>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 8:41 AM
>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>
>>> HI Paul,
>
>>> This is an interesting topic and it also gets pretty
> complicated, at
>>> least where I am concerned.
>
>>> As far as your question about making that initial contact, I
> would say
>>> it is very appropriate.  I would most certainly prefer a light
> touch on
>>> my shoulder than having someone talk to someone who is with me,
>>> inquiring as to what I might like to order, as if I weren't
> there, or as
>>> if I were a child.  I do not  object to this at all.
>
>>> I have noted in this discussion that there are several people
> who have
>>> said they don't like to be touched.  I have the opposite
> problem.
>>> Whether it has anything to do with blindness or not, I really
> don't
>>> know, but I am a person who is tactile, and or affectionate with
> people
>>> that I know.
>
>>> This is gotten me crossways with several people, as I have
> learned,
>>> sometimes the hard way, that some of us don't' appreciate being
> touched.
>
>>> As a tactile person myself, that is something that I have a real
> hard
>>> time fathoming or remembering.  I don't grab and cling to
> strangers by
>>> any means, but when there is a person who I know, like or
> associate
>>> with, it is not uncommon for me to reach out and want to hug
> someone or
>>> look at their hairstyle, or place a hand gently on their arm or
> shoulder
>>> when speaking to them.  I also welcome warm handshakes, hugs,
> and the
>>> like from those whom I consider friends and associates.  I have
> had to
>>> learn that some people object to this, and it isn't always easy
> to
>>> remember.
>
>>> Now, like I said, it gets complicated, because  what I do object
> to is
>>> those well meaning sighted people, many of them strangers, who
> want to
>>> grab me or my clothes or coat or whatever, thinking that they
> are
>>> helping to guide me or saving me from falling off a curb or
> something
>>> like that.
>
>>> There is a lady who does this every day at the bus stop in the
> evening,
>>> and I just want to slap her sometimes.  They wouldn't take
> liberties
>>> with and/or manhandle a sighted person like that, and I do not
>>> appreciate it either.
>
>>> Diane Graves
>>> Civil Rights Specialist
>>> Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>>> Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>>> 317-232-2647
>
>>> "IT is service that measures success."
>>> George Washington Carver
>
>
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>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On Behalf Of Weingartner, Paul
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:02 AM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>>> This is an interesting topic that is very helpful because of the
>>> candidness of the respondents.  Because of that I would like to
> ask a
>>> question.
>>> Sighted people use eye contact to initiate communication.
> Obviously,
>>> that does not work for initiating communication with a person
> who is
>>> blind.  That is why it is awkward for a waitress in a restaurant
> or for
>>> a stranger in a mall to make first contact in a way to know the
> speaker
>>> is addressing the person who is blind.
>>> A number of totally blind friends recommend a light quick touch
> to let
>>> them know they are the person being addressed, so that is what I
>>> recommend.  I was wondering what some or you think.
>>> Also, many people who are totally blind like to hold and cling
> during a
>>> conversation.  That can get pretty awkward and down right
> embarrassing a
>>> times.
>>> I would appreciate your thoughts.
>
>
>>> Paul Weingartner
>>> Making the Cross Accessible
>>> Center for the Blind of the Assemblies of God
>>> P 417.831.1964   F 417.862.5120
>>> www.blind.ag.org
>>> www.blindonline.ag.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On Behalf Of Steve P.  Deeley
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 7:47 AM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>>> It has nothing to do with blindness in my case.  I just hate
> being
>>> touched.
>
>>> Steve
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "dewey bradley" <dewey.bradley at gmail.com
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 8:40 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>
>>>> Allot of sighted people think that they can't talk to us without
>>> putting
>>>> there hands on us.
>>>> The thing is allot of people like my self really hate to be
> touched,
>>> When
>>>> we
>>>> ask them to please take there hands off, they get mad.
>>>> I guess there is no across the board answer for things like
> this.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Steve P.  Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com
>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>> Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 10:42 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>
>>>>> This is a very complicated topic.  There are those, like me, who
>>> don't
>>>>> like being touched during conversations with individuals I
> really
>>> don't
>>>>> know very well.  I'm wondering if blind individuals understand
>>> spacial
>>>>> concepts during conversations.  You don't want to be too close
> during
>>> a
>>>>> conversation or too far away.  I suspect most of us who
> understand
>>> this
>>>>> art have had some coaching from sighted individuals whom they
> trust.
>>>>> \
>>>>> Steve
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net
>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:46 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>
>>>>>>I was raised giving and receiving warm hand shakes, or in some
>>>>>> situations, embraces and or kisses, all of which seem to me to
> be
>>>>>> quite germ spreading!  I like the bowing idea a lot!
>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>From: Joel Zimba <jzimba at cavtel.net
>>>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>Date sent: Sat, 23 May 2009 17:08:35 -0400
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>>>>>>>Hi,
>
>>>>>>>I love these kinds of topics.  I believe the issue of blind or
>>>>>> sighted
>>>>>>>is mostly meaningless when it comes to whether you should touch
>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>or not.  It comes down more to how comfortable you are with what
>>>>>> you are
>>>>>>>doing and your motivation for it.
>
>>>>>>>The examples of folks talking with their hands is a great one.
>>>>>> It's not
>>>>>>>so much that they talk with their hands, but that touching is a
>>>>>> means of
>>>>>>>communication.  In fact, if you are comfortable enough with
>>>>>> yurself to
>>>>>>>touch someone else while speaking to them, you'll pull them into
>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>paradigm.  This is common wisdom in the sales world.
>
>>>>>>>For the blind among us, (myself included) this is most easily
>>>>>> donw with
>>>>>>>the back of the hand and making solid contact.
>
>>>>>>>When it comes to shaking hands, I decided to take the initiative
>>>>>> early
>>>>>>>and often.  When someone doesn't take my hand, I leave it out
>>>>>> there and
>>>>>>>then eventually start snapping my fingers.  This calls attention
>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>>fact that the other people are not playing the social game.  I
>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>taught that it is not obligatory for women to shake hands.  Long
>>>>>> ago I
>>>>>>>decided that if women want equal rights, they can do the glad
>>>>>> handing as
>>>>>>>well, so I expect them to shake and I do the snapping as well.  I
>>>>>>>sometimes let the elderly off the hook, though oddly, the older
>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>is, the more likely they are to initiate or take my hand.  Proper
>>>>>>>conduct seems to not always be taught to the younger generation.
>>>>>> Maybe
>>>>>>>we all need to go back to finishing school.
>
>>>>>>>Now, if someone could explain the bowing protocol to me so that
>>>>>> my Asian
>>>>>>>friends would be surprised and pleased by my manners, I would be
>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>greatful.
>
>>>>>>>Joel
>
>>>>>>>On 5/23/2009 12:40 PM, Jeffrey Schwartz wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi Gerardo,
>>>>>>>> I am also blind as a result of RP and a clinical psychologist.
>>>>>> My vision
>>>>>>>> deteriorated at a different pace.  I drove a car until I was 27
>>>>>> and did not
>>>>>>>> require adaptive technology to read and write until I was about
>>>>>> 40.  Now, at
>>>>>>>> 61, I have little more than light perception.  When younger, I
>>>>>> was often
>>>>>>>> embarrassed when my wife kindly noted that someone was reaching
>>>>>> out to shake
>>>>>>>> my hand and I was not noticing.  Eventually, I learned to avoid
>>>>>> this problem
>>>>>>>> by taking the initiative.  On occasion I reach out to discover
>>>>>> that the
>>>>>>>> person has quickly turned their back or departed, no big deal.
>>>>>> I have had
>>>>>>>> no experience with the touching.  There are cultural differences
>>>>>> in such
>>>>>>>> nonverbal behaviors.  For example, cultures vary in terms of
>>>>>> what is
>>>>>>>> regarded as personal space.  Groups vary in terms of how close
>>>>>> they stand to
>>>>>>>> each other when speaking, and also with regard to touching which
>>>>>> is common
>>>>>>>> in some cultures and taboo in others.  Perhaps your blindness
>>>>>> has led you to
>>>>>>>> exceed what is common in your culture or your parents may have
>>>>>> felt bad for
>>>>>>>> you when they saw you reach out to touch someone and the person
>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>> departed.  There are also a group of behaviors known as
>>>>>> blindisms.  We all
>>>>>>>> conduct little rituals of personal hygiene when alone which we
>>>>>> would not do
>>>>>>>> in front of others.  There is a tendency, particularly if one
>>>>>> loses their
>>>>>>>> vision gradually to assume that others see as we do.  I am often
>>>>>> surprised
>>>>>>>> by what others can see.  We assume that if we can't see
>>>>>> something others can
>>>>>>>> not either.  This can lead us to embarrass ourselves by
>>>>>> performing these
>>>>>>>> grooming rituals in public.  Recently, I have noticed that when
>>>>>> I am walking
>>>>>>>> and thinking about a conversation which I had or will have with
>>>>>> someone, I
>>>>>>>> am moving my lips as if I were speaking.  I am working on
>>>>>> suppressing this
>>>>>>>> behavior as I am certain that the sighted would see it as
>>>>>> strange.  Behavior
>>>>>>>> is so ritualized, and blindness can lead us to engage in some
>>>>>> peculiar ones.
>>>>>>>> As professionals, in particular, we don't want to be seen as odd
>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> idiosyncratic.
>>>>>>>> Jeff
>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Cindy Handel
>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 9:55 AM
>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
>
>>>>>>>> Gerardo,
>
>>>>>>>> Most of the time, when I would like to shake the hand of a
>>>>>> sighted person, I
>
>>>>>>>> just extend my hand and they grasp it and we shake hands.
>
>>>>>>>> As far as touching the arm of people, I've never done this.
>>>>>> When do you do
>>>>>>>> this?  If you're talking with someone, it shouldn't be
>>>>>> necessary, since
>>>>>>>> they're participating in the conversation.  I think we've all
>>>>>> experienced a
>>>>>>>> time when we're talking to someone and learn that they walked
>>>>>> away.  Now, if
>
>>>>>>>> you're referring to touching a person's arm to make sure they're
>>>>>> still there
>
>>>>>>>> as a way to insure that you still have their attention, that's
>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>> different.  I have met sighted people who talk with their hands
>>>>>> and touch my
>
>>>>>>>> arm or shoulder, for emphasis.  So, that might not be so
>>>>>> unusual.
>
>>>>>>>> Cindy
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Gerardo Corripio"<gera1027 at prodigy.net.mx
>>>>>>>> To: "Blind-Talk"<blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 11:35 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
>
>
>>>>>>>> Hi listers:
>>>>>>>> I'm Gerardo from Mexico; 31 years old and a Psychologist working
>>>>>> on my own
>>>>>>>> in my private practice.
>>>>>>>> Hopefully I'll be able to learn lots of great things from you
>>>>>> guys,
>>>>>>>> especially of the NFB way of viewing and living with blindness.
>>>>>>>> Now for my debut question: I've been blind all my life due to
>>>>>> RP; since I
>>>>>>>> was a teenager I remember developing a habbit of touching the
>>>>>> arm of the
>>>>>>>> people constanly to be sure he/she was still there.  I continued
>>>>>> to do this
>>>>>>>> into adulthood until my family made the observation that this
>>>>>> behavior isn't
>>>>>>>> seen well by the sighted only a few days ago.  I'm still shocked
>>>>>> by this
>>>>>>>> observation to the point that now how to know if the person is
>>>>>> still there?
>>>>>>>> Yes, the voice gives feedback but when people talk it feels as
>>>>>> if they're
>>>>>>>> there but aren't there.  How have you coped with this situation
>>>>>> in that you
>>>>>>>> have to get rid of the habbit before-mentioned? Surely it has
>>>>>> happened to
>>>>>>>> some of you?
>>>>>>>> also when shaking hands with sighted people how to find the hand
>>>>>> to shake if
>>>>>>>> the sighted person doesn't take the initiative?
>>>>>>>> As you can see I've still have lots of tips and tricks to learn
>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>> blindness, thus my interest in joining the list.
>>>>>>>> Gerardo
>
>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>
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