[Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind

Thu May 28 23:48:34 UTC 2009

What phone I was talking to myself (smile.)

I was at a technology conference a couple years ago, and walking to a 
second hotel to visit a woman named Jennifer.  Some guy was going the 
other way on the sidewalk, and as he got within a couple feet of me I 
heard him say "I hope you have a good time with Jennifer!"  I of 
course thought -- how did he know -- until I figured out he was 
talking on his cell phone.

Dave

At 10:58 PM 5/26/2009, you wrote:
>When cellphones were still a bit of a novelty, I walked into the
>National Center for the Blind to attend an R&D Committee meeting and
>encountered Curtis Chong and David Andrews. Each of us thought he was
>talking to one or both of the other two; turns out all three of us were
>carrying on separate cellphone conversations!
>
>Mike Freeman
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Gary Wunder" <gwunder at earthlink.net>
>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 6:37 PM
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>
>Yes, that happens to me too. Another funny thing that happens in that
>regard
>is to be walking down the hallway, hear somebody talking a few yards
>away,
>try intensely to figure out where the person is they are talking with,
>and
>then realize they are talking on the telephone and there's no one to
>avoid
>but them.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "dewey bradley" <dewey.bradley at gmail.com>
>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 8:29 PM
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>
> > Also when someone is on the phone, and you think they are speaking to
> > you.
> > I'm shore we all get that.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Cindy Handel" <cindy425 at verizon.net>
> > To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 12:21 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
> >
> >
> >> Diane,
> >>
> >> I am not a person who readily hugs or touches others.  But, I don't
> >> mind
> >> if
> >> someone touches my arm or wants a hug.  I think, when it comes to
> >> someone,
> >> like a waitress speaking, it would be easier if they would touch a
> >> shoulder
> >> or my hand.  There have been times when someone is talking to me, but
> >> I
> >> didn't know it, or they might have been talking to someone else, near
> >> me,
> >> and I respond.  That's sometimes difficult.  Most of the time, you
> >> can
> >> tell
> >> if someone is looking toward you when they're speaking.  But, if
> >> there's
> >> someone else, in the same direction, it's hard to know, specifically,
> >> who
> >> they're looking at.
> >>
> >> This is turning out to be a very interesting topic.
> >>
> >> Cindy
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov>
> >> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:41 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
> >>
> >>
> >> HI Paul,
> >>
> >> This is an interesting topic and it also gets pretty complicated, at
> >> least where I am concerned.
> >>
> >> As far as your question about making that initial contact, I would
> >> say
> >> it is very appropriate.  I would most certainly prefer a light touch
> >> on
> >> my shoulder than having someone talk to someone who is with me,
> >> inquiring as to what I might like to order, as if I weren't there, or
> >> as
> >> if I were a child.  I do not  object to this at all.
> >>
> >> I have noted in this discussion that there are several people who
> >> have
> >> said they don't like to be touched.  I have the opposite problem.
> >> Whether it has anything to do with blindness or not, I really don't
> >> know, but I am a person who is tactile, and or affectionate with
> >> people
> >> that I know.
> >>
> >> This is gotten me crossways with several people, as I have learned,
> >> sometimes the hard way, that some of us don't' appreciate being
> >> touched.
> >>
> >> As a tactile person myself, that is something that I have a real hard
> >> time fathoming or remembering.  I don't grab and cling to strangers
> >> by
> >> any means, but when there is a person who I know, like or associate
> >> with, it is not uncommon for me to reach out and want to hug someone
> >> or
> >> look at their hairstyle, or place a hand gently on their arm or
> >> shoulder
> >> when speaking to them.  I also welcome warm handshakes, hugs, and the
> >> like from those whom I consider friends and associates. I have had to
> >> learn that some people object to this, and it isn't always easy to
> >> remember.
> >>
> >> Now, like I said, it gets complicated, because  what I do object to
> >> is
> >> those well meaning sighted people, many of them strangers, who want
> >> to
> >> grab me or my clothes or coat or whatever, thinking that they are
> >> helping to guide me or saving me from falling off a curb or something
> >> like that.
> >>
> >> There is a lady who does this every day at the bus stop in the
> >> evening,
> >> and I just want to slap her sometimes.  They wouldn't take liberties
> >> with and/or manhandle a sighted person like that, and I do not
> >> appreciate it either.
> >>
> >> Diane Graves
> >> Civil Rights Specialist
> >> Indiana Civil Rights Commission
> >> Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
> >> 317-232-2647
> >>
> >> "IT is service that measures success."
> >> George Washington Carver
> >>
> >>
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> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
> >> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> >> On Behalf Of Weingartner, Paul
> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:02 AM
> >> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
> >> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
> >>
> >> This is an interesting topic that is very helpful because of the
> >> candidness of the respondents.  Because of that I would like to ask a
> >> question.
> >> Sighted people use eye contact to initiate communication.  Obviously,
> >> that does not work for initiating communication with a person who is
> >> blind.  That is why it is awkward for a waitress in a restaurant or
> >> for
> >> a stranger in a mall to make first contact in a way to know the
> >> speaker
> >> is addressing the person who is blind.
> >> A number of totally blind friends recommend a light quick touch to
> >> let
> >> them know they are the person being addressed, so that is what I
> >> recommend.  I was wondering what some or you think.
> >> Also, many people who are totally blind like to hold and cling during
> >> a
> >> conversation.  That can get pretty awkward and down right
> >> embarrassing a
> >> times.
> >> I would appreciate your thoughts.
> >>
> >>
> >> Paul Weingartner
> >> Making the Cross Accessible
> >> Center for the Blind of the Assemblies of God
> >> P 417.831.1964   F 417.862.5120
> >> www.blind.ag.org
> >> www.blindonline.ag.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
> >> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> >> On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 7:47 AM
> >> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
> >> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
> >>
> >> It has nothing to do with blindness in my case.  I just hate being
> >> touched.
> >>
> >> Steve
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "dewey bradley" <dewey.bradley at gmail.com>
> >> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> >> Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 8:40 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
> >>
> >>
> >>> Allot of sighted people think that they can't talk to us without
> >> putting
> >>> there hands on us.
> >>> The thing is allot of people like my self really hate to be touched,
> >> When
> >>> we
> >>> ask them to please take there hands off, they get mad.
> >>> I guess there is no across the board answer for things like this.
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
> >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> >>> Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 10:42 AM
> >>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> This is a very complicated topic.  There are those, like me, who
> >> don't
> >>>> like being touched during conversations with individuals I really
> >> don't
> >>>> know very well.  I'm wondering if blind individuals understand
> >> spacial
> >>>> concepts during conversations.  You don't want to be too close
> >>>> during
> >> a
> >>>> conversation or too far away.  I suspect most of us who understand
> >> this
> >>>> art have had some coaching from sighted individuals whom they
> >>>> trust.
> >>>> \
> >>>> Steve
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net>
> >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> >>>> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:46 PM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>I was raised giving and receiving warm hand shakes, or in some
> >>>>> situations, embraces and or kisses, all of which seem to me to be
> >>>>> quite germ spreading!  I like the bowing idea a lot!
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>From: Joel Zimba <jzimba at cavtel.net
> >>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>>Date sent: Sat, 23 May 2009 17:08:35 -0400
> >>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Hi,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>I love these kinds of topics.  I believe the issue of blind or
> >>>>> sighted
> >>>>>>is mostly meaningless when it comes to whether you should touch
> >>>>> someone
> >>>>>>or not.  It comes down more to how comfortable you are with what
> >>>>> you are
> >>>>>>doing and your motivation for it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>The examples of folks talking with their hands is a great one.
> >>>>> It's not
> >>>>>>so much that they talk with their hands, but that touching is a
> >>>>> means of
> >>>>>>communication.  In fact, if you are comfortable enough with
> >>>>> yurself to
> >>>>>>touch someone else while speaking to them, you'll pull them into
> >>>>> your
> >>>>>>paradigm.  This is common wisdom in the sales world.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>For the blind among us, (myself included) this is most easily
> >>>>> donw with
> >>>>>>the back of the hand and making solid contact.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>When it comes to shaking hands, I decided to take the initiative
> >>>>> early
> >>>>>>and often.  When someone doesn't take my hand, I leave it out
> >>>>> there and
> >>>>>>then eventually start snapping my fingers.  This calls attention
> >>>>> to the
> >>>>>>fact that the other people are not playing the social game.  I
> >>>>> was
> >>>>>>taught that it is not obligatory for women to shake hands.  Long
> >>>>> ago I
> >>>>>>decided that if women want equal rights, they can do the glad
> >>>>> handing as
> >>>>>>well, so I expect them to shake and I do the snapping as well.  I
> >>>>>>sometimes let the elderly off the hook, though oddly, the older
> >>>>> someone
> >>>>>>is, the more likely they are to initiate or take my hand.  Proper
> >>>>>>conduct seems to not always be taught to the younger generation.
> >>>>> Maybe
> >>>>>>we all need to go back to finishing school.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Now, if someone could explain the bowing protocol to me so that
> >>>>> my Asian
> >>>>>>friends would be surprised and pleased by my manners, I would be
> >>>>> very
> >>>>>>greatful.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Joel
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>On 5/23/2009 12:40 PM, Jeffrey Schwartz wrote:
> >>>>>>> Hi Gerardo,
> >>>>>>> I am also blind as a result of RP and a clinical psychologist.
> >>>>> My vision
> >>>>>>> deteriorated at a different pace.  I drove a car until I was 27
> >>>>> and did not
> >>>>>>> require adaptive technology to read and write until I was about
> >>>>> 40.  Now, at
> >>>>>>> 61, I have little more than light perception.  When younger, I
> >>>>> was often
> >>>>>>> embarrassed when my wife kindly noted that someone was reaching
> >>>>> out to shake
> >>>>>>> my hand and I was not noticing.  Eventually, I learned to avoid
> >>>>> this problem
> >>>>>>> by taking the initiative.  On occasion I reach out to discover
> >>>>> that the
> >>>>>>> person has quickly turned their back or departed, no big deal.
> >>>>> I have had
> >>>>>>> no experience with the touching.  There are cultural differences
> >>>>> in such
> >>>>>>> nonverbal behaviors.  For example, cultures vary in terms of
> >>>>> what is
> >>>>>>> regarded as personal space.  Groups vary in terms of how close
> >>>>> they stand to
> >>>>>>> each other when speaking, and also with regard to touching which
> >>>>> is common
> >>>>>>> in some cultures and taboo in others.  Perhaps your blindness
> >>>>> has led you to
> >>>>>>> exceed what is common in your culture or your parents may have
> >>>>> felt bad for
> >>>>>>> you when they saw you reach out to touch someone and the person
> >>>>> had
> >>>>>>> departed.  There are also a group of behaviors known as
> >>>>> blindisms.  We all
> >>>>>>> conduct little rituals of personal hygiene when alone which we
> >>>>> would not do
> >>>>>>> in front of others.  There is a tendency, particularly if one
> >>>>> loses their
> >>>>>>> vision gradually to assume that others see as we do.  I am often
> >>>>> surprised
> >>>>>>> by what others can see.  We assume that if we can't see
> >>>>> something others can
> >>>>>>> not either.  This can lead us to embarrass ourselves by
> >>>>> performing these
> >>>>>>> grooming rituals in public.  Recently, I have noticed that when
> >>>>> I am walking
> >>>>>>> and thinking about a conversation which I had or will have with
> >>>>> someone, I
> >>>>>>> am moving my lips as if I were speaking.  I am working on
> >>>>> suppressing this
> >>>>>>> behavior as I am certain that the sighted would see it as
> >>>>> strange.  Behavior
> >>>>>>> is so ritualized, and blindness can lead us to engage in some
> >>>>> peculiar ones.
> >>>>>>> As professionals, in particular, we don't want to be seen as odd
> >>>>> or
> >>>>>>> idiosyncratic.
> >>>>>>> Jeff
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
> >>>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> >>>>>>> Behalf Of Cindy Handel
> >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 9:55 AM
> >>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> Gerardo,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> Most of the time, when I would like to shake the hand of a
> >>>>> sighted person, I
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> just extend my hand and they grasp it and we shake hands.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> As far as touching the arm of people, I've never done this.
> >>>>> When do you do
> >>>>>>> this?  If you're talking with someone, it shouldn't be
> >>>>> necessary, since
> >>>>>>> they're participating in the conversation.  I think we've all
> >>>>> experienced a
> >>>>>>> time when we're talking to someone and learn that they walked
> >>>>> away.  Now, if
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> you're referring to touching a person's arm to make sure they're
> >>>>> still there
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> as a way to insure that you still have their attention, that's
> >>>>> something
> >>>>>>> different.  I have met sighted people who talk with their hands
> >>>>> and touch my
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> arm or shoulder, for emphasis.  So, that might not be so
> >>>>> unusual.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> Cindy
> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>> From: "Gerardo Corripio"<gera1027 at prodigy.net.mx
> >>>>>>> To: "Blind-Talk"<blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 11:35 PM
> >>>>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hi listers:
> >>>>>>> I'm Gerardo from Mexico; 31 years old and a Psychologist working
> >>>>> on my own
> >>>>>>> in my private practice.
> >>>>>>> Hopefully I'll be able to learn lots of great things from you
> >>>>> guys,
> >>>>>>> especially of the NFB way of viewing and living with blindness.
> >>>>>>> Now for my debut question: I've been blind all my life due to
> >>>>> RP; since I
> >>>>>>> was a teenager I remember developing a habbit of touching the
> >>>>> arm of the
> >>>>>>> people constanly to be sure he/she was still there.  I continued
> >>>>> to do this
> >>>>>>> into adulthood until my family made the observation that this
> >>>>> behavior isn't
> >>>>>>> seen well by the sighted only a few days ago.  I'm still shocked
> >>>>> by this
> >>>>>>> observation to the point that now how to know if the person is
> >>>>> still there?
> >>>>>>> Yes, the voice gives feedback but when people talk it feels as
> >>>>> if they're
> >>>>>>> there but aren't there.  How have you coped with this situation
> >>>>> in that you
> >>>>>>> have to get rid of the habbit before-mentioned? Surely it has
> >>>>> happened to
> >>>>>>> some of you?
> >>>>>>> also when shaking hands with sighted people how to find the hand
> >>>>> to shake if
> >>>>>>> the sighted person doesn't take the initiative?
> >>>>>>> As you can see I've still have lots of tips and tricks to learn
> >>>>> about
> >>>>>>> blindness, thus my interest in joining the list.
> >>>>>>> Gerardo
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
> >>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
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> >>>>> info for
> >>>>>>> blindtlk:
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> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/cindy42
> >>>>> 5%40verizon
> >>>>>>> .net
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
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> >>>>>
> >>>>>
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> >> 40insightbb.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
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