[Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind

Gary Wunder gwunder at earthlink.net
Fri May 29 13:30:28 UTC 2009 

Okay, and so the question is just out there as big as day - did you have a 
good time with Jennifer?


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 6:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind


> What phone I was talking to myself (smile.)
>
> I was at a technology conference a couple years ago, and walking to a 
> second hotel to visit a woman named Jennifer.  Some guy was going the 
> other way on the sidewalk, and as he got within a couple feet of me I 
> heard him say "I hope you have a good time with Jennifer!"  I of course 
> thought -- how did he know -- until I figured out he was talking on his 
> cell phone.
>
> Dave
>
> At 10:58 PM 5/26/2009, you wrote:
>>When cellphones were still a bit of a novelty, I walked into the
>>National Center for the Blind to attend an R&D Committee meeting and
>>encountered Curtis Chong and David Andrews. Each of us thought he was
>>talking to one or both of the other two; turns out all three of us were
>>carrying on separate cellphone conversations!
>>
>>Mike Freeman
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Gary Wunder" <gwunder at earthlink.net>
>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 6:37 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>
>>Yes, that happens to me too. Another funny thing that happens in that
>>regard
>>is to be walking down the hallway, hear somebody talking a few yards
>>away,
>>try intensely to figure out where the person is they are talking with,
>>and
>>then realize they are talking on the telephone and there's no one to
>>avoid
>>but them.
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "dewey bradley" <dewey.bradley at gmail.com>
>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 8:29 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>
>> > Also when someone is on the phone, and you think they are speaking to
>> > you.
>> > I'm shore we all get that.
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Cindy Handel" <cindy425 at verizon.net>
>> > To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> > Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 12:21 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>> >
>> >
>> >> Diane,
>> >>
>> >> I am not a person who readily hugs or touches others.  But, I don't
>> >> mind
>> >> if
>> >> someone touches my arm or wants a hug.  I think, when it comes to
>> >> someone,
>> >> like a waitress speaking, it would be easier if they would touch a
>> >> shoulder
>> >> or my hand.  There have been times when someone is talking to me, but
>> >> I
>> >> didn't know it, or they might have been talking to someone else, near
>> >> me,
>> >> and I respond.  That's sometimes difficult.  Most of the time, you
>> >> can
>> >> tell
>> >> if someone is looking toward you when they're speaking.  But, if
>> >> there's
>> >> someone else, in the same direction, it's hard to know, specifically,
>> >> who
>> >> they're looking at.
>> >>
>> >> This is turning out to be a very interesting topic.
>> >>
>> >> Cindy
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov>
>> >> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:41 AM
>> >> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> HI Paul,
>> >>
>> >> This is an interesting topic and it also gets pretty complicated, at
>> >> least where I am concerned.
>> >>
>> >> As far as your question about making that initial contact, I would
>> >> say
>> >> it is very appropriate.  I would most certainly prefer a light touch
>> >> on
>> >> my shoulder than having someone talk to someone who is with me,
>> >> inquiring as to what I might like to order, as if I weren't there, or
>> >> as
>> >> if I were a child.  I do not  object to this at all.
>> >>
>> >> I have noted in this discussion that there are several people who
>> >> have
>> >> said they don't like to be touched.  I have the opposite problem.
>> >> Whether it has anything to do with blindness or not, I really don't
>> >> know, but I am a person who is tactile, and or affectionate with
>> >> people
>> >> that I know.
>> >>
>> >> This is gotten me crossways with several people, as I have learned,
>> >> sometimes the hard way, that some of us don't' appreciate being
>> >> touched.
>> >>
>> >> As a tactile person myself, that is something that I have a real hard
>> >> time fathoming or remembering.  I don't grab and cling to strangers
>> >> by
>> >> any means, but when there is a person who I know, like or associate
>> >> with, it is not uncommon for me to reach out and want to hug someone
>> >> or
>> >> look at their hairstyle, or place a hand gently on their arm or
>> >> shoulder
>> >> when speaking to them.  I also welcome warm handshakes, hugs, and the
>> >> like from those whom I consider friends and associates. I have had to
>> >> learn that some people object to this, and it isn't always easy to
>> >> remember.
>> >>
>> >> Now, like I said, it gets complicated, because  what I do object to
>> >> is
>> >> those well meaning sighted people, many of them strangers, who want
>> >> to
>> >> grab me or my clothes or coat or whatever, thinking that they are
>> >> helping to guide me or saving me from falling off a curb or something
>> >> like that.
>> >>
>> >> There is a lady who does this every day at the bus stop in the
>> >> evening,
>> >> and I just want to slap her sometimes.  They wouldn't take liberties
>> >> with and/or manhandle a sighted person like that, and I do not
>> >> appreciate it either.
>> >>
>> >> Diane Graves
>> >> Civil Rights Specialist
>> >> Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>> >> Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>> >> 317-232-2647
>> >>
>> >> "IT is service that measures success."
>> >> George Washington Carver
>> >>
>> >>
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>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> >> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> >> On Behalf Of Weingartner, Paul
>> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:02 AM
>> >> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>> >> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>> >>
>> >> This is an interesting topic that is very helpful because of the
>> >> candidness of the respondents.  Because of that I would like to ask a
>> >> question.
>> >> Sighted people use eye contact to initiate communication.  Obviously,
>> >> that does not work for initiating communication with a person who is
>> >> blind.  That is why it is awkward for a waitress in a restaurant or
>> >> for
>> >> a stranger in a mall to make first contact in a way to know the
>> >> speaker
>> >> is addressing the person who is blind.
>> >> A number of totally blind friends recommend a light quick touch to
>> >> let
>> >> them know they are the person being addressed, so that is what I
>> >> recommend.  I was wondering what some or you think.
>> >> Also, many people who are totally blind like to hold and cling during
>> >> a
>> >> conversation.  That can get pretty awkward and down right
>> >> embarrassing a
>> >> times.
>> >> I would appreciate your thoughts.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Paul Weingartner
>> >> Making the Cross Accessible
>> >> Center for the Blind of the Assemblies of God
>> >> P 417.831.1964   F 417.862.5120
>> >> www.blind.ag.org
>> >> www.blindonline.ag.org
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> >> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> >> On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 7:47 AM
>> >> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>> >> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>> >>
>> >> It has nothing to do with blindness in my case.  I just hate being
>> >> touched.
>> >>
>> >> Steve
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "dewey bradley" <dewey.bradley at gmail.com>
>> >> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> >> Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 8:40 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> Allot of sighted people think that they can't talk to us without
>> >> putting
>> >>> there hands on us.
>> >>> The thing is allot of people like my self really hate to be touched,
>> >> When
>> >>> we
>> >>> ask them to please take there hands off, they get mad.
>> >>> I guess there is no across the board answer for things like this.
>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
>> >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> >>> Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 10:42 AM
>> >>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> This is a very complicated topic.  There are those, like me, who
>> >> don't
>> >>>> like being touched during conversations with individuals I really
>> >> don't
>> >>>> know very well.  I'm wondering if blind individuals understand
>> >> spacial
>> >>>> concepts during conversations.  You don't want to be too close
>> >>>> during
>> >> a
>> >>>> conversation or too far away.  I suspect most of us who understand
>> >> this
>> >>>> art have had some coaching from sighted individuals whom they
>> >>>> trust.
>> >>>> \
>> >>>> Steve
>> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>> From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net>
>> >>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> >>>> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:46 PM
>> >>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>I was raised giving and receiving warm hand shakes, or in some
>> >>>>> situations, embraces and or kisses, all of which seem to me to be
>> >>>>> quite germ spreading!  I like the bowing idea a lot!
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>>>>From: Joel Zimba <jzimba at cavtel.net
>> >>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>>Date sent: Sat, 23 May 2009 17:08:35 -0400
>> >>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>Hi,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>I love these kinds of topics.  I believe the issue of blind or
>> >>>>> sighted
>> >>>>>>is mostly meaningless when it comes to whether you should touch
>> >>>>> someone
>> >>>>>>or not.  It comes down more to how comfortable you are with what
>> >>>>> you are
>> >>>>>>doing and your motivation for it.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>The examples of folks talking with their hands is a great one.
>> >>>>> It's not
>> >>>>>>so much that they talk with their hands, but that touching is a
>> >>>>> means of
>> >>>>>>communication.  In fact, if you are comfortable enough with
>> >>>>> yurself to
>> >>>>>>touch someone else while speaking to them, you'll pull them into
>> >>>>> your
>> >>>>>>paradigm.  This is common wisdom in the sales world.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>For the blind among us, (myself included) this is most easily
>> >>>>> donw with
>> >>>>>>the back of the hand and making solid contact.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>When it comes to shaking hands, I decided to take the initiative
>> >>>>> early
>> >>>>>>and often.  When someone doesn't take my hand, I leave it out
>> >>>>> there and
>> >>>>>>then eventually start snapping my fingers.  This calls attention
>> >>>>> to the
>> >>>>>>fact that the other people are not playing the social game.  I
>> >>>>> was
>> >>>>>>taught that it is not obligatory for women to shake hands.  Long
>> >>>>> ago I
>> >>>>>>decided that if women want equal rights, they can do the glad
>> >>>>> handing as
>> >>>>>>well, so I expect them to shake and I do the snapping as well.  I
>> >>>>>>sometimes let the elderly off the hook, though oddly, the older
>> >>>>> someone
>> >>>>>>is, the more likely they are to initiate or take my hand.  Proper
>> >>>>>>conduct seems to not always be taught to the younger generation.
>> >>>>> Maybe
>> >>>>>>we all need to go back to finishing school.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>Now, if someone could explain the bowing protocol to me so that
>> >>>>> my Asian
>> >>>>>>friends would be surprised and pleased by my manners, I would be
>> >>>>> very
>> >>>>>>greatful.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>Joel
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>On 5/23/2009 12:40 PM, Jeffrey Schwartz wrote:
>> >>>>>>> Hi Gerardo,
>> >>>>>>> I am also blind as a result of RP and a clinical psychologist.
>> >>>>> My vision
>> >>>>>>> deteriorated at a different pace.  I drove a car until I was 27
>> >>>>> and did not
>> >>>>>>> require adaptive technology to read and write until I was about
>> >>>>> 40.  Now, at
>> >>>>>>> 61, I have little more than light perception.  When younger, I
>> >>>>> was often
>> >>>>>>> embarrassed when my wife kindly noted that someone was reaching
>> >>>>> out to shake
>> >>>>>>> my hand and I was not noticing.  Eventually, I learned to avoid
>> >>>>> this problem
>> >>>>>>> by taking the initiative.  On occasion I reach out to discover
>> >>>>> that the
>> >>>>>>> person has quickly turned their back or departed, no big deal.
>> >>>>> I have had
>> >>>>>>> no experience with the touching.  There are cultural differences
>> >>>>> in such
>> >>>>>>> nonverbal behaviors.  For example, cultures vary in terms of
>> >>>>> what is
>> >>>>>>> regarded as personal space.  Groups vary in terms of how close
>> >>>>> they stand to
>> >>>>>>> each other when speaking, and also with regard to touching which
>> >>>>> is common
>> >>>>>>> in some cultures and taboo in others.  Perhaps your blindness
>> >>>>> has led you to
>> >>>>>>> exceed what is common in your culture or your parents may have
>> >>>>> felt bad for
>> >>>>>>> you when they saw you reach out to touch someone and the person
>> >>>>> had
>> >>>>>>> departed.  There are also a group of behaviors known as
>> >>>>> blindisms.  We all
>> >>>>>>> conduct little rituals of personal hygiene when alone which we
>> >>>>> would not do
>> >>>>>>> in front of others.  There is a tendency, particularly if one
>> >>>>> loses their
>> >>>>>>> vision gradually to assume that others see as we do.  I am often
>> >>>>> surprised
>> >>>>>>> by what others can see.  We assume that if we can't see
>> >>>>> something others can
>> >>>>>>> not either.  This can lead us to embarrass ourselves by
>> >>>>> performing these
>> >>>>>>> grooming rituals in public.  Recently, I have noticed that when
>> >>>>> I am walking
>> >>>>>>> and thinking about a conversation which I had or will have with
>> >>>>> someone, I
>> >>>>>>> am moving my lips as if I were speaking.  I am working on
>> >>>>> suppressing this
>> >>>>>>> behavior as I am certain that the sighted would see it as
>> >>>>> strange.  Behavior
>> >>>>>>> is so ritualized, and blindness can lead us to engage in some
>> >>>>> peculiar ones.
>> >>>>>>> As professionals, in particular, we don't want to be seen as odd
>> >>>>> or
>> >>>>>>> idiosyncratic.
>> >>>>>>> Jeff
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> >>>>>>> Behalf Of Cindy Handel
>> >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 9:55 AM
>> >>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Gerardo,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Most of the time, when I would like to shake the hand of a
>> >>>>> sighted person, I
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>> just extend my hand and they grasp it and we shake hands.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>> As far as touching the arm of people, I've never done this.
>> >>>>> When do you do
>> >>>>>>> this?  If you're talking with someone, it shouldn't be
>> >>>>> necessary, since
>> >>>>>>> they're participating in the conversation.  I think we've all
>> >>>>> experienced a
>> >>>>>>> time when we're talking to someone and learn that they walked
>> >>>>> away.  Now, if
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>> you're referring to touching a person's arm to make sure they're
>> >>>>> still there
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>> as a way to insure that you still have their attention, that's
>> >>>>> something
>> >>>>>>> different.  I have met sighted people who talk with their hands
>> >>>>> and touch my
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>> arm or shoulder, for emphasis.  So, that might not be so
>> >>>>> unusual.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Cindy
>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>>>>> From: "Gerardo Corripio"<gera1027 at prodigy.net.mx
>> >>>>>>> To: "Blind-Talk"<blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 11:35 PM
>> >>>>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Hi listers:
>> >>>>>>> I'm Gerardo from Mexico; 31 years old and a Psychologist working
>> >>>>> on my own
>> >>>>>>> in my private practice.
>> >>>>>>> Hopefully I'll be able to learn lots of great things from you
>> >>>>> guys,
>> >>>>>>> especially of the NFB way of viewing and living with blindness.
>> >>>>>>> Now for my debut question: I've been blind all my life due to
>> >>>>> RP; since I
>> >>>>>>> was a teenager I remember developing a habbit of touching the
>> >>>>> arm of the
>> >>>>>>> people constanly to be sure he/she was still there.  I continued
>> >>>>> to do this
>> >>>>>>> into adulthood until my family made the observation that this
>> >>>>> behavior isn't
>> >>>>>>> seen well by the sighted only a few days ago.  I'm still shocked
>> >>>>> by this
>> >>>>>>> observation to the point that now how to know if the person is
>> >>>>> still there?
>> >>>>>>> Yes, the voice gives feedback but when people talk it feels as
>> >>>>> if they're
>> >>>>>>> there but aren't there.  How have you coped with this situation
>> >>>>> in that you
>> >>>>>>> have to get rid of the habbit before-mentioned? Surely it has
>> >>>>> happened to
>> >>>>>>> some of you?
>> >>>>>>> also when shaking hands with sighted people how to find the hand
>> >>>>> to shake if
>> >>>>>>> the sighted person doesn't take the initiative?
>> >>>>>>> As you can see I've still have lots of tips and tricks to learn
>> >>>>> about
>> >>>>>>> blindness, thus my interest in joining the list.
>> >>>>>>> Gerardo
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
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>> >>>>>>> blindtlk:
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>> >>>>> 5%40verizon
>> >>>>>>> .net
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
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