[Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind

Fri May 29 00:14:38 UTC 2009

I agree with you Sara.  I remember an incident where someone asked me 
if I was going to try to cross a particular street.  I had not 
planned on it anyway, as I was walking to the corner and was turning 
left, but I answered the person by saying, no I wasn't crossing at 
the moment, but would be happy to see that they get across safely.  I 
could almost hear their jaw drop and it really made my day.

Connie
At 02:40 PM 5/28/2009, you wrote:
>That's exactly what I get out of it.
>Sarah
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Sivill" <mike.sivill at viewplus.com>
>To: "'NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 12:18 PM
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>
>>Yes! I hate "where are you trying to go" too. It's like a blind person would
>>never be able to get anywhere so what are you doing?
>>Lol
>>Mike
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>Behalf Of Sarah Baughn
>>Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 10:30 AM
>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>Oh, yeah, I hate it when people tell you things like "over there", even
>>after you've told them that you can't see where they're pointing.  Another
>>thing I hate is when people ask me where I'm trying to go.  It's like, uh,
>>hello, I'm not trying to go anywhere, I'm actually going there.  I don't
>>know, the wording just bugs me.
>>Sarah
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" 
>><sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net>
>>To: "'NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 6:05 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>
>>>Diane,
>>>This woman at the bus stop is clearly concerned about your welfare and
>>>trying to be helpful.  If it is a situation where she can be of
>>>assistance,
>>>I suggest that you be assertively courteous and instruct  her on how she
>>>could help in a way that would be comfortable for both of You.  (See my
>>>earlier post about the arm pullers).  If you absolutely don't need any
>>>help
>>>from her, I suggest that you tell her so in a nice way, acknowledging her
>>>kind desire to help you and thanking her for it.
>>>
>>>Changing the topic a bit here.  There's the comical routine where someone
>>>is
>>>facing you and wanting to give you directions.  They will tell you to turn
>>>right without realizing that their right is your left.  Amazing how often
>>>this happens.  They can't all be dummies.  I think that they just get
>>>confused or sort of choke up.  The ones who really drive me nuts are the
>>>folks who tell you" it's right over there", presumably pointing in a
>>>certain
>>>direction.  These jerks make me really angry.  The lack of empathy is
>>>appalling.  I think that they just don't want to be bothered.  Their tone
>>>of
>>>voice usually  reflects this.
>>>Jeff
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 11:55 AM
>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>
>>>Have you told the lady at the bus stop that you don't appreciate her
>>>interference?
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov>
>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:41 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>
>>>
>>>>HI Paul,
>>>>
>>>>This is an interesting topic and it also gets pretty complicated, at
>>>>least where I am concerned.
>>>>
>>>>As far as your question about making that initial contact, I would say
>>>>it is very appropriate.  I would most certainly prefer a light touch on
>>>>my shoulder than having someone talk to someone who is with me,
>>>>inquiring as to what I might like to order, as if I weren't there, or as
>>>>if I were a child.  I do not  object to this at all.
>>>>
>>>>I have noted in this discussion that there are several people who have
>>>>said they don't like to be touched.  I have the opposite problem.
>>>>Whether it has anything to do with blindness or not, I really don't
>>>>know, but I am a person who is tactile, and or affectionate with people
>>>>that I know.
>>>>
>>>>This is gotten me crossways with several people, as I have learned,
>>>>sometimes the hard way, that some of us don't' appreciate being touched.
>>>>
>>>>As a tactile person myself, that is something that I have a real hard
>>>>time fathoming or remembering.  I don't grab and cling to strangers by
>>>>any means, but when there is a person who I know, like or associate
>>>>with, it is not uncommon for me to reach out and want to hug someone or
>>>>look at their hairstyle, or place a hand gently on their arm or shoulder
>>>>when speaking to them.  I also welcome warm handshakes, hugs, and the
>>>>like from those whom I consider friends and associates. I have had to
>>>>learn that some people object to this, and it isn't always easy to
>>>>remember.
>>>>
>>>>Now, like I said, it gets complicated, because  what I do object to is
>>>>those well meaning sighted people, many of them strangers, who want to
>>>>grab me or my clothes or coat or whatever, thinking that they are
>>>>helping to guide me or saving me from falling off a curb or something
>>>>like that.
>>>>
>>>>There is a lady who does this every day at the bus stop in the evening,
>>>>and I just want to slap her sometimes.  They wouldn't take liberties
>>>>with and/or manhandle a sighted person like that, and I do not
>>>>appreciate it either.
>>>>
>>>>Diane Graves
>>>>Civil Rights Specialist
>>>>Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>>>>Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>>>>317-232-2647
>>>>
>>>>"IT is service that measures success."
>>>>George Washington Carver
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>On Behalf Of Weingartner, Paul
>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:02 AM
>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>
>>>>This is an interesting topic that is very helpful because of the
>>>>candidness of the respondents.  Because of that I would like to ask a
>>>>question.
>>>>Sighted people use eye contact to initiate communication.  Obviously,
>>>>that does not work for initiating communication with a person who is
>>>>blind.  That is why it is awkward for a waitress in a restaurant or for
>>>>a stranger in a mall to make first contact in a way to know the speaker
>>>>is addressing the person who is blind.
>>>>A number of totally blind friends recommend a light quick touch to let
>>>>them know they are the person being addressed, so that is what I
>>>>recommend.  I was wondering what some or you think.
>>>>Also, many people who are totally blind like to hold and cling during a
>>>>conversation.  That can get pretty awkward and down right embarrassing a
>>>>times.
>>>>I would appreciate your thoughts.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Paul Weingartner
>>>>Making the Cross Accessible
>>>>Center for the Blind of the Assemblies of God
>>>>P 417.831.1964   F 417.862.5120
>>>>www.blind.ag.org
>>>>www.blindonline.ag.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 7:47 AM
>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>
>>>>It has nothing to do with blindness in my case.  I just hate being
>>>>touched.
>>>>
>>>>Steve
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "dewey bradley" <dewey.bradley at gmail.com>
>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 8:40 PM
>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Allot of sighted people think that they can't talk to us without
>>>>putting
>>>>>there hands on us.
>>>>>The thing is allot of people like my self really hate to be touched,
>>>>When
>>>>>we
>>>>>ask them to please take there hands off, they get mad.
>>>>>I guess there is no across the board answer for things like this.
>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley" 
>>>>><stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 10:42 AM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>This is a very complicated topic.  There are those, like me, who
>>>>don't
>>>>>>like being touched during conversations with individuals I really
>>>>don't
>>>>>>know very well.  I'm wondering if blind individuals understand
>>>>spacial
>>>>>>concepts during conversations.  You don't want to be too close during
>>>>a
>>>>>>conversation or too far away.  I suspect most of us who understand
>>>>this
>>>>>>art have had some coaching from sighted individuals whom they trust.
>>>>>>\
>>>>>>Steve
>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net>
>>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:46 PM
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I was raised giving and receiving warm hand shakes, or in some
>>>>>>>situations, embraces and or kisses, all of which seem to me to be
>>>>>>>quite germ spreading!  I like the bowing idea a lot!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>From: Joel Zimba <jzimba at cavtel.net
>>>>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>Date sent: Sat, 23 May 2009 17:08:35 -0400
>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I love these kinds of topics.  I believe the issue of blind or
>>>>>>>sighted
>>>>>>>>is mostly meaningless when it comes to whether you should touch
>>>>>>>someone
>>>>>>>>or not.  It comes down more to how comfortable you are with what
>>>>>>>you are
>>>>>>>>doing and your motivation for it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The examples of folks talking with their hands is a great one.
>>>>>>>It's not
>>>>>>>>so much that they talk with their hands, but that touching is a
>>>>>>>means of
>>>>>>>>communication.  In fact, if you are comfortable enough with
>>>>>>>yurself to
>>>>>>>>touch someone else while speaking to them, you'll pull them into
>>>>>>>your
>>>>>>>>paradigm.  This is common wisdom in the sales world.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>For the blind among us, (myself included) this is most easily
>>>>>>>donw with
>>>>>>>>the back of the hand and making solid contact.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>When it comes to shaking hands, I decided to take the initiative
>>>>>>>early
>>>>>>>>and often.  When someone doesn't take my hand, I leave it out
>>>>>>>there and
>>>>>>>>then eventually start snapping my fingers.  This calls attention
>>>>>>>to the
>>>>>>>>fact that the other people are not playing the social game.  I
>>>>>>>was
>>>>>>>>taught that it is not obligatory for women to shake hands.  Long
>>>>>>>ago I
>>>>>>>>decided that if women want equal rights, they can do the glad
>>>>>>>handing as
>>>>>>>>well, so I expect them to shake and I do the snapping as well.  I
>>>>>>>>sometimes let the elderly off the hook, though oddly, the older
>>>>>>>someone
>>>>>>>>is, the more likely they are to initiate or take my hand.  Proper
>>>>>>>>conduct seems to not always be taught to the younger generation.
>>>>>>>Maybe
>>>>>>>>we all need to go back to finishing school.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Now, if someone could explain the bowing protocol to me so that
>>>>>>>my Asian
>>>>>>>>friends would be surprised and pleased by my manners, I would be
>>>>>>>very
>>>>>>>>greatful.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Joel
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On 5/23/2009 12:40 PM, Jeffrey Schwartz wrote:
>>>>>>>>>Hi Gerardo,
>>>>>>>>>I am also blind as a result of RP and a clinical psychologist.
>>>>>>>My vision
>>>>>>>>>deteriorated at a different pace.  I drove a car until I was 27
>>>>>>>and did not
>>>>>>>>>require adaptive technology to read and write until I was about
>>>>>>>40.  Now, at
>>>>>>>>>61, I have little more than light perception.  When younger, I
>>>>>>>was often
>>>>>>>>>embarrassed when my wife kindly noted that someone was reaching
>>>>>>>out to shake
>>>>>>>>>my hand and I was not noticing.  Eventually, I learned to avoid
>>>>>>>this problem
>>>>>>>>>by taking the initiative.  On occasion I reach out to discover
>>>>>>>that the
>>>>>>>>>person has quickly turned their back or departed, no big deal.
>>>>>>>I have had
>>>>>>>>>no experience with the touching.  There are cultural differences
>>>>>>>in such
>>>>>>>>>nonverbal behaviors.  For example, cultures vary in terms of
>>>>>>>what is
>>>>>>>>>regarded as personal space.  Groups vary in terms of how close
>>>>>>>they stand to
>>>>>>>>>each other when speaking, and also with regard to touching which
>>>>>>>is common
>>>>>>>>>in some cultures and taboo in others.  Perhaps your blindness
>>>>>>>has led you to
>>>>>>>>>exceed what is common in your culture or your parents may have
>>>>>>>felt bad for
>>>>>>>>>you when they saw you reach out to touch someone and the person
>>>>>>>had
>>>>>>>>>departed.  There are also a group of behaviors known as
>>>>>>>blindisms.  We all
>>>>>>>>>conduct little rituals of personal hygiene when alone which we
>>>>>>>would not do
>>>>>>>>>in front of others.  There is a tendency, particularly if one
>>>>>>>loses their
>>>>>>>>>vision gradually to assume that others see as we do.  I am often
>>>>>>>surprised
>>>>>>>>>by what others can see.  We assume that if we can't see
>>>>>>>something others can
>>>>>>>>>not either.  This can lead us to embarrass ourselves by
>>>>>>>performing these
>>>>>>>>>grooming rituals in public.  Recently, I have noticed that when
>>>>>>>I am walking
>>>>>>>>>and thinking about a conversation which I had or will have with
>>>>>>>someone, I
>>>>>>>>>am moving my lips as if I were speaking.  I am working on
>>>>>>>suppressing this
>>>>>>>>>behavior as I am certain that the sighted would see it as
>>>>>>>strange.  Behavior
>>>>>>>>>is so ritualized, and blindness can lead us to engage in some
>>>>>>>peculiar ones.
>>>>>>>>>As professionals, in particular, we don't want to be seen as odd
>>>>>>>or
>>>>>>>>>idiosyncratic.
>>>>>>>>>Jeff
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>>>Behalf Of Cindy Handel
>>>>>>>>>Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 9:55 AM
>>>>>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Gerardo,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Most of the time, when I would like to shake the hand of a
>>>>>>>sighted person, I
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>just extend my hand and they grasp it and we shake hands.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>As far as touching the arm of people, I've never done this.
>>>>>>>When do you do
>>>>>>>>>this?  If you're talking with someone, it shouldn't be
>>>>>>>necessary, since
>>>>>>>>>they're participating in the conversation.  I think we've all
>>>>>>>experienced a
>>>>>>>>>time when we're talking to someone and learn that they walked
>>>>>>>away.  Now, if
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>you're referring to touching a person's arm to make sure they're
>>>>>>>still there
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>as a way to insure that you still have their attention, that's
>>>>>>>something
>>>>>>>>>different.  I have met sighted people who talk with their hands
>>>>>>>and touch my
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>arm or shoulder, for emphasis.  So, that might not be so
>>>>>>>unusual.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Cindy
>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>From: "Gerardo Corripio"<gera1027 at prodigy.net.mx
>>>>>>>>>To: "Blind-Talk"<blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 11:35 PM
>>>>>>>>>Subject: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Hi listers:
>>>>>>>>>I'm Gerardo from Mexico; 31 years old and a Psychologist working
>>>>>>>on my own
>>>>>>>>>in my private practice.
>>>>>>>>>Hopefully I'll be able to learn lots of great things from you
>>>>>>>guys,
>>>>>>>>>especially of the NFB way of viewing and living with blindness.
>>>>>>>>>Now for my debut question: I've been blind all my life due to
>>>>>>>RP; since I
>>>>>>>>>was a teenager I remember developing a habbit of touching the
>>>>>>>arm of the
>>>>>>>>>people constanly to be sure he/she was still there.  I continued
>>>>>>>to do this
>>>>>>>>>into adulthood until my family made the observation that this
>>>>>>>behavior isn't
>>>>>>>>>seen well by the sighted only a few days ago.  I'm still shocked
>>>>>>>by this
>>>>>>>>>observation to the point that now how to know if the person is
>>>>>>>still there?
>>>>>>>>>Yes, the voice gives feedback but when people talk it feels as
>>>>>>>if they're
>>>>>>>>>there but aren't there.  How have you coped with this situation
>>>>>>>in that you
>>>>>>>>>have to get rid of the habbit before-mentioned? Surely it has
>>>>>>>happened to
>>>>>>>>>some of you?
>>>>>>>>>also when shaking hands with sighted people how to find the hand
>>>>>>>to shake if
>>>>>>>>>the sighted person doesn't take the initiative?
>>>>>>>>>As you can see I've still have lots of tips and tricks to learn
>>>>>>>about
>>>>>>>>>blindness, thus my interest in joining the list.
>>>>>>>>>Gerardo
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>blindtlk mailing list
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>>>>>>>
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