[Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
Sarah Baughn
sarahb006 at comcast.net
Fri May 29 06:30:21 UTC 2009
Ha!!!
Sarah
----- Original Message -----
From: "Constance Canode" <satin-bear at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 5:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>I agree with you Sara. I remember an incident where someone asked me if I
>was going to try to cross a particular street. I had not planned on it
>anyway, as I was walking to the corner and was turning left, but I answered
>the person by saying, no I wasn't crossing at the moment, but would be
>happy to see that they get across safely. I could almost hear their jaw
>drop and it really made my day.
>
> Connie
> At 02:40 PM 5/28/2009, you wrote:
>>That's exactly what I get out of it.
>>Sarah
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Sivill"
>><mike.sivill at viewplus.com>
>>To: "'NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 12:18 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>
>>>Yes! I hate "where are you trying to go" too. It's like a blind person
>>>would
>>>never be able to get anywhere so what are you doing?
>>>Lol
>>>Mike
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>Behalf Of Sarah Baughn
>>>Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 10:30 AM
>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>
>>>Oh, yeah, I hate it when people tell you things like "over there", even
>>>after you've told them that you can't see where they're pointing.
>>>Another
>>>thing I hate is when people ask me where I'm trying to go. It's like,
>>>uh,
>>>hello, I'm not trying to go anywhere, I'm actually going there. I don't
>>>know, the wording just bugs me.
>>>Sarah
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Schwartz"
>>><sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net>
>>>To: "'NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 6:05 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>
>>>
>>>>Diane,
>>>>This woman at the bus stop is clearly concerned about your welfare and
>>>>trying to be helpful. If it is a situation where she can be of
>>>>assistance,
>>>>I suggest that you be assertively courteous and instruct her on how she
>>>>could help in a way that would be comfortable for both of You. (See my
>>>>earlier post about the arm pullers). If you absolutely don't need any
>>>>help
>>>>from her, I suggest that you tell her so in a nice way, acknowledging
>>>>her
>>>>kind desire to help you and thanking her for it.
>>>>
>>>>Changing the topic a bit here. There's the comical routine where
>>>>someone
>>>>is
>>>>facing you and wanting to give you directions. They will tell you to
>>>>turn
>>>>right without realizing that their right is your left. Amazing how
>>>>often
>>>>this happens. They can't all be dummies. I think that they just get
>>>>confused or sort of choke up. The ones who really drive me nuts are the
>>>>folks who tell you" it's right over there", presumably pointing in a
>>>>certain
>>>>direction. These jerks make me really angry. The lack of empathy is
>>>>appalling. I think that they just don't want to be bothered. Their
>>>>tone
>>>>of
>>>>voice usually reflects this.
>>>>Jeff
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>On
>>>>Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 11:55 AM
>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>
>>>>Have you told the lady at the bus stop that you don't appreciate her
>>>>interference?
>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov>
>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:41 AM
>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>HI Paul,
>>>>>
>>>>>This is an interesting topic and it also gets pretty complicated, at
>>>>>least where I am concerned.
>>>>>
>>>>>As far as your question about making that initial contact, I would say
>>>>>it is very appropriate. I would most certainly prefer a light touch on
>>>>>my shoulder than having someone talk to someone who is with me,
>>>>>inquiring as to what I might like to order, as if I weren't there, or
>>>>>as
>>>>>if I were a child. I do not object to this at all.
>>>>>
>>>>>I have noted in this discussion that there are several people who have
>>>>>said they don't like to be touched. I have the opposite problem.
>>>>>Whether it has anything to do with blindness or not, I really don't
>>>>>know, but I am a person who is tactile, and or affectionate with people
>>>>>that I know.
>>>>>
>>>>>This is gotten me crossways with several people, as I have learned,
>>>>>sometimes the hard way, that some of us don't' appreciate being
>>>>>touched.
>>>>>
>>>>>As a tactile person myself, that is something that I have a real hard
>>>>>time fathoming or remembering. I don't grab and cling to strangers by
>>>>>any means, but when there is a person who I know, like or associate
>>>>>with, it is not uncommon for me to reach out and want to hug someone or
>>>>>look at their hairstyle, or place a hand gently on their arm or
>>>>>shoulder
>>>>>when speaking to them. I also welcome warm handshakes, hugs, and the
>>>>>like from those whom I consider friends and associates. I have had to
>>>>>learn that some people object to this, and it isn't always easy to
>>>>>remember.
>>>>>
>>>>>Now, like I said, it gets complicated, because what I do object to is
>>>>>those well meaning sighted people, many of them strangers, who want to
>>>>>grab me or my clothes or coat or whatever, thinking that they are
>>>>>helping to guide me or saving me from falling off a curb or something
>>>>>like that.
>>>>>
>>>>>There is a lady who does this every day at the bus stop in the evening,
>>>>>and I just want to slap her sometimes. They wouldn't take liberties
>>>>>with and/or manhandle a sighted person like that, and I do not
>>>>>appreciate it either.
>>>>>
>>>>>Diane Graves
>>>>>Civil Rights Specialist
>>>>>Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>>>>>Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>>>>>317-232-2647
>>>>>
>>>>>"IT is service that measures success."
>>>>>George Washington Carver
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>On Behalf Of Weingartner, Paul
>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:02 AM
>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>
>>>>>This is an interesting topic that is very helpful because of the
>>>>>candidness of the respondents. Because of that I would like to ask a
>>>>>question.
>>>>>Sighted people use eye contact to initiate communication. Obviously,
>>>>>that does not work for initiating communication with a person who is
>>>>>blind. That is why it is awkward for a waitress in a restaurant or for
>>>>>a stranger in a mall to make first contact in a way to know the speaker
>>>>>is addressing the person who is blind.
>>>>>A number of totally blind friends recommend a light quick touch to let
>>>>>them know they are the person being addressed, so that is what I
>>>>>recommend. I was wondering what some or you think.
>>>>>Also, many people who are totally blind like to hold and cling during a
>>>>>conversation. That can get pretty awkward and down right embarrassing
>>>>>a
>>>>>times.
>>>>>I would appreciate your thoughts.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Paul Weingartner
>>>>>Making the Cross Accessible
>>>>>Center for the Blind of the Assemblies of God
>>>>>P 417.831.1964 F 417.862.5120
>>>>>www.blind.ag.org
>>>>>www.blindonline.ag.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 7:47 AM
>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>
>>>>>It has nothing to do with blindness in my case. I just hate being
>>>>>touched.
>>>>>
>>>>>Steve
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "dewey bradley" <dewey.bradley at gmail.com>
>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 8:40 PM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Allot of sighted people think that they can't talk to us without
>>>>>putting
>>>>>>there hands on us.
>>>>>>The thing is allot of people like my self really hate to be touched,
>>>>>When
>>>>>>we
>>>>>>ask them to please take there hands off, they get mad.
>>>>>>I guess there is no across the board answer for things like this.
>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve P. Deeley"
>>>>>><stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
>>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 10:42 AM
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>This is a very complicated topic. There are those, like me, who
>>>>>don't
>>>>>>>like being touched during conversations with individuals I really
>>>>>don't
>>>>>>>know very well. I'm wondering if blind individuals understand
>>>>>spacial
>>>>>>>concepts during conversations. You don't want to be too close during
>>>>>a
>>>>>>>conversation or too far away. I suspect most of us who understand
>>>>>this
>>>>>>>art have had some coaching from sighted individuals whom they trust.
>>>>>>>\
>>>>>>>Steve
>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net>
>>>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:46 PM
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I was raised giving and receiving warm hand shakes, or in some
>>>>>>>>situations, embraces and or kisses, all of which seem to me to be
>>>>>>>>quite germ spreading! I like the bowing idea a lot!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>From: Joel Zimba <jzimba at cavtel.net
>>>>>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Sat, 23 May 2009 17:08:35 -0400
>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I love these kinds of topics. I believe the issue of blind or
>>>>>>>>sighted
>>>>>>>>>is mostly meaningless when it comes to whether you should touch
>>>>>>>>someone
>>>>>>>>>or not. It comes down more to how comfortable you are with what
>>>>>>>>you are
>>>>>>>>>doing and your motivation for it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>The examples of folks talking with their hands is a great one.
>>>>>>>>It's not
>>>>>>>>>so much that they talk with their hands, but that touching is a
>>>>>>>>means of
>>>>>>>>>communication. In fact, if you are comfortable enough with
>>>>>>>>yurself to
>>>>>>>>>touch someone else while speaking to them, you'll pull them into
>>>>>>>>your
>>>>>>>>>paradigm. This is common wisdom in the sales world.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>For the blind among us, (myself included) this is most easily
>>>>>>>>donw with
>>>>>>>>>the back of the hand and making solid contact.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>When it comes to shaking hands, I decided to take the initiative
>>>>>>>>early
>>>>>>>>>and often. When someone doesn't take my hand, I leave it out
>>>>>>>>there and
>>>>>>>>>then eventually start snapping my fingers. This calls attention
>>>>>>>>to the
>>>>>>>>>fact that the other people are not playing the social game. I
>>>>>>>>was
>>>>>>>>>taught that it is not obligatory for women to shake hands. Long
>>>>>>>>ago I
>>>>>>>>>decided that if women want equal rights, they can do the glad
>>>>>>>>handing as
>>>>>>>>>well, so I expect them to shake and I do the snapping as well. I
>>>>>>>>>sometimes let the elderly off the hook, though oddly, the older
>>>>>>>>someone
>>>>>>>>>is, the more likely they are to initiate or take my hand. Proper
>>>>>>>>>conduct seems to not always be taught to the younger generation.
>>>>>>>>Maybe
>>>>>>>>>we all need to go back to finishing school.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Now, if someone could explain the bowing protocol to me so that
>>>>>>>>my Asian
>>>>>>>>>friends would be surprised and pleased by my manners, I would be
>>>>>>>>very
>>>>>>>>>greatful.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Joel
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On 5/23/2009 12:40 PM, Jeffrey Schwartz wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>Hi Gerardo,
>>>>>>>>>>I am also blind as a result of RP and a clinical psychologist.
>>>>>>>>My vision
>>>>>>>>>>deteriorated at a different pace. I drove a car until I was 27
>>>>>>>>and did not
>>>>>>>>>>require adaptive technology to read and write until I was about
>>>>>>>>40. Now, at
>>>>>>>>>>61, I have little more than light perception. When younger, I
>>>>>>>>was often
>>>>>>>>>>embarrassed when my wife kindly noted that someone was reaching
>>>>>>>>out to shake
>>>>>>>>>>my hand and I was not noticing. Eventually, I learned to avoid
>>>>>>>>this problem
>>>>>>>>>>by taking the initiative. On occasion I reach out to discover
>>>>>>>>that the
>>>>>>>>>>person has quickly turned their back or departed, no big deal.
>>>>>>>>I have had
>>>>>>>>>>no experience with the touching. There are cultural differences
>>>>>>>>in such
>>>>>>>>>>nonverbal behaviors. For example, cultures vary in terms of
>>>>>>>>what is
>>>>>>>>>>regarded as personal space. Groups vary in terms of how close
>>>>>>>>they stand to
>>>>>>>>>>each other when speaking, and also with regard to touching which
>>>>>>>>is common
>>>>>>>>>>in some cultures and taboo in others. Perhaps your blindness
>>>>>>>>has led you to
>>>>>>>>>>exceed what is common in your culture or your parents may have
>>>>>>>>felt bad for
>>>>>>>>>>you when they saw you reach out to touch someone and the person
>>>>>>>>had
>>>>>>>>>>departed. There are also a group of behaviors known as
>>>>>>>>blindisms. We all
>>>>>>>>>>conduct little rituals of personal hygiene when alone which we
>>>>>>>>would not do
>>>>>>>>>>in front of others. There is a tendency, particularly if one
>>>>>>>>loses their
>>>>>>>>>>vision gradually to assume that others see as we do. I am often
>>>>>>>>surprised
>>>>>>>>>>by what others can see. We assume that if we can't see
>>>>>>>>something others can
>>>>>>>>>>not either. This can lead us to embarrass ourselves by
>>>>>>>>performing these
>>>>>>>>>>grooming rituals in public. Recently, I have noticed that when
>>>>>>>>I am walking
>>>>>>>>>>and thinking about a conversation which I had or will have with
>>>>>>>>someone, I
>>>>>>>>>>am moving my lips as if I were speaking. I am working on
>>>>>>>>suppressing this
>>>>>>>>>>behavior as I am certain that the sighted would see it as
>>>>>>>>strange. Behavior
>>>>>>>>>>is so ritualized, and blindness can lead us to engage in some
>>>>>>>>peculiar ones.
>>>>>>>>>>As professionals, in particular, we don't want to be seen as odd
>>>>>>>>or
>>>>>>>>>>idiosyncratic.
>>>>>>>>>>Jeff
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>>>>Behalf Of Cindy Handel
>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 9:55 AM
>>>>>>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Gerardo,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Most of the time, when I would like to shake the hand of a
>>>>>>>>sighted person, I
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>just extend my hand and they grasp it and we shake hands.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>As far as touching the arm of people, I've never done this.
>>>>>>>>When do you do
>>>>>>>>>>this? If you're talking with someone, it shouldn't be
>>>>>>>>necessary, since
>>>>>>>>>>they're participating in the conversation. I think we've all
>>>>>>>>experienced a
>>>>>>>>>>time when we're talking to someone and learn that they walked
>>>>>>>>away. Now, if
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>you're referring to touching a person's arm to make sure they're
>>>>>>>>still there
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>as a way to insure that you still have their attention, that's
>>>>>>>>something
>>>>>>>>>>different. I have met sighted people who talk with their hands
>>>>>>>>and touch my
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>arm or shoulder, for emphasis. So, that might not be so
>>>>>>>>unusual.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Cindy
>>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>From: "Gerardo Corripio"<gera1027 at prodigy.net.mx
>>>>>>>>>>To: "Blind-Talk"<blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 11:35 PM
>>>>>>>>>>Subject: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Hi listers:
>>>>>>>>>>I'm Gerardo from Mexico; 31 years old and a Psychologist working
>>>>>>>>on my own
>>>>>>>>>>in my private practice.
>>>>>>>>>>Hopefully I'll be able to learn lots of great things from you
>>>>>>>>guys,
>>>>>>>>>>especially of the NFB way of viewing and living with blindness.
>>>>>>>>>>Now for my debut question: I've been blind all my life due to
>>>>>>>>RP; since I
>>>>>>>>>>was a teenager I remember developing a habbit of touching the
>>>>>>>>arm of the
>>>>>>>>>>people constanly to be sure he/she was still there. I continued
>>>>>>>>to do this
>>>>>>>>>>into adulthood until my family made the observation that this
>>>>>>>>behavior isn't
>>>>>>>>>>seen well by the sighted only a few days ago. I'm still shocked
>>>>>>>>by this
>>>>>>>>>>observation to the point that now how to know if the person is
>>>>>>>>still there?
>>>>>>>>>>Yes, the voice gives feedback but when people talk it feels as
>>>>>>>>if they're
>>>>>>>>>>there but aren't there. How have you coped with this situation
>>>>>>>>in that you
>>>>>>>>>>have to get rid of the habbit before-mentioned? Surely it has
>>>>>>>>happened to
>>>>>>>>>>some of you?
>>>>>>>>>>also when shaking hands with sighted people how to find the hand
>>>>>>>>to shake if
>>>>>>>>>>the sighted person doesn't take the initiative?
>>>>>>>>>>As you can see I've still have lots of tips and tricks to learn
>>>>>>>>about
>>>>>>>>>>blindness, thus my interest in joining the list.
>>>>>>>>>>Gerardo
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>blindtlk mailing list
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>>>>>>>>5%40verizon
>>>>>>>>>>.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>schwartz%40
>>>>>>>>>>sbcglobal.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
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