[Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
trishs
slosser at metrocast.net
Sat May 30 03:24:15 UTC 2009
That makes perfect sense to me. I'm not a step counter, but I
could see where that would work in a familiar, unchanging
corridor.
> ----- Original Message -----
>From: "Gary Wunder" <gwunder at earthlink.net
>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Thu, 28 May 2009 13:49:04 -0500
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>Perhaps my experience is not commonly shared, but there are
situations in
>which I do count steps. It is helpful to me to know that my
hotel room is 17
>steps from the beginning of the corridor. I've gotten to where I
can count
>them in the back of my mind and still carry on a conversation or
think about
>something else of importance while I'm doing it. The step
counting technique
>is not something I would like to try to use if I was 150 steps
away from my
>desired location, but I think there are times when a step count
gives me
>information, where no other landmarks exist.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Sarah Baughn" <sarahb006 at comcast.net
>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 12:44 PM
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>> Oh, yeah, I hate that one. I remember being taught in the first
grade to
>> count steps, and then in the third grade or so, I started being
taught to
>> use a cane, and I have never counted steps since. I hate it
when people
>> think that we count steps, and I suspect that the reason that
one of the
>> people in the school faculty wanted me to learn to count steps
is that
>> they didn't know that blind people didn't do that, because they
weren't
>> exposed to blind people before me, as I was the only blind
person in the
>> school.
>> Sarah
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "dewey bradley" <dewey.bradley at gmail.com
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 9:51 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>> Allot of blind people like to touch because the blind schools
never told
>>> them that you can't do that.
>>> I know with the one I whent to did that, The parants will let
the schools
>>> raise the kids.
>>> I know of allot of people that came out, and they will touch and
rock,
>>> and shake there heads all the time, and people see that and
think we are
>>> all like that.
>>> Or they think we count steps.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net
>>> To: "Ray Foret jr" <rforetjr at comcast.net>; "NFBnet Blind Talk
Mailing
>>> List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 8:51 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>> Look "normal?" That's open to individual interpffetation. I,
>>>> unfortunately, think it sucks to appear blind, or worse, to
appear blind
>>>> and helpless, or lost. I realize that these are manageable
stresses,
>>>> but man! That'll weigh on a Soul!
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "Ray Foret jr" <rforetjr at comcast.net
>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 26 May 2009 19:41:55 -0500
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>Can you ever say that again Trish.
>>>>>This very morning, for example, I was at the doctor's office
>>>> being
>>>>>officially discharged, (from an auto accident in which I was) and
>>>> I heard
>>>>>the receptionist saying "hi". Her face was turned to me, and so,
>>>> I reckoned
>>>>>she was addressing me; but no. She was talking on the phone. I
>>>> guess maybe
>>>>>turning one's face toward the person just isn't enough sometimes;
>>>> but, I
>>>>>think that it stands you a better chance of looking normal if you
>>>> do so.
>>>>>So far as touching is concerned, My girlfriend just loves a nice
>>>> very long
>>>>>rub on the soles of her callused constantly bare feet; but, I
>>>> don't go for
>>>>>the stereotypical blind monster who has only sockets for eyes and
>>>> feels all
>>>>>over people's faces; yuck!!!
>>>>>Sincerely,
>>>>>The Constantly BAREFOOTED Ray
>>>>>"Old friend, what are you looking for? After those many years
>>>> abroad you
>>>>>come With images you tended Under foreign skies Far away from
>>>> your own land"
>>>>>George Seferis
>>>>>Phone or Fax::
>>>>>+1 (985) 360-3614
>>>>>Cell:
>>>>>+1 (985) 719-2938
>>>>>e-mail:
>>>>>rforetjratcomcastdotnet
>>>>>Skype Name:
>>>>>barefootedray
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net
>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 6:47 PM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>I hate it when that happens! I walk to the appointment desk, the
>>>>>lady behind it says "hi", I start to state my name, and the
>>>>>person I'm with says "she's on the phone." Grrrr!
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>From: "Cindy Handel" <cindy425 at verizon.net
>>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 26 May 2009 14:21:43 -0400
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>>Diane,
>>>>>>I am not a person who readily hugs or touches others. But, I
>>>>>don't mind if
>>>>>>someone touches my arm or wants a hug. I think, when it comes to
>>>>>someone,
>>>>>>like a waitress speaking, it would be easier if they would touch
>>>>>a shoulder
>>>>>>or my hand. There have been times when someone is talking to me,
>>>>>but I
>>>>>>didn't know it, or they might have been talking to someone else,
>>>>>near me,
>>>>>>and I respond. That's sometimes difficult. Most of the time,
>>>>>you can tell
>>>>>>if someone is looking toward you when they're speaking. But, if
>>>>>there's
>>>>>>someone else, in the same direction, it's hard to know,
>>>>>specifically, who
>>>>>>they're looking at.
>>>>>>This is turning out to be a very interesting topic.
>>>>>>Cindy
>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov
>>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:41 AM
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>>HI Paul,
>>>>>>This is an interesting topic and it also gets pretty complicated,
>>>>>at
>>>>>>least where I am concerned.
>>>>>>As far as your question about making that initial contact, I
>>>>>would say
>>>>>>it is very appropriate. I would most certainly prefer a light
>>>>>touch on
>>>>>>my shoulder than having someone talk to someone who is with me,
>>>>>>inquiring as to what I might like to order, as if I weren't
>>>>>there, or as
>>>>>>if I were a child. I do not object to this at all.
>>>>>>I have noted in this discussion that there are several people who
>>>>>have
>>>>>>said they don't like to be touched. I have the opposite problem.
>>>>>>Whether it has anything to do with blindness or not, I really
>>>>>don't
>>>>>>know, but I am a person who is tactile, and or affectionate with
>>>>>people
>>>>>>that I know.
>>>>>>This is gotten me crossways with several people, as I have
>>>>>learned,
>>>>>>sometimes the hard way, that some of us don't' appreciate being
>>>>>touched.
>>>>>>As a tactile person myself, that is something that I have a real
>>>>>hard
>>>>>>time fathoming or remembering. I don't grab and cling to
>>>>>strangers by
>>>>>>any means, but when there is a person who I know, like or
>>>>>associate
>>>>>>with, it is not uncommon for me to reach out and want to hug
>>>>>someone or
>>>>>>look at their hairstyle, or place a hand gently on their arm or
>>>>>shoulder
>>>>>>when speaking to them. I also welcome warm handshakes, hugs, and
>>>>>the
>>>>>>like from those whom I consider friends and associates. I have
>>>>>had to
>>>>>>learn that some people object to this, and it isn't always easy
>>>>>to
>>>>>>remember.
>>>>>>Now, like I said, it gets complicated, because what I do object
>>>>>to is
>>>>>>those well meaning sighted people, many of them strangers, who
>>>>>want to
>>>>>>grab me or my clothes or coat or whatever, thinking that they are
>>>>>>helping to guide me or saving me from falling off a curb or
>>>>>something
>>>>>>like that.
>>>>>>There is a lady who does this every day at the bus stop in the
>>>>>evening,
>>>>>>and I just want to slap her sometimes. They wouldn't take
>>>>>liberties
>>>>>>with and/or manhandle a sighted person like that, and I do not
>>>>>>appreciate it either.
>>>>>>Diane Graves
>>>>>>Civil Rights Specialist
>>>>>>Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>>>>>>Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>>>>>>317-232-2647
>>>>>>"IT is service that measures success."
>>>>>>George Washington Carver
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>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>On Behalf Of Weingartner, Paul
>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:02 AM
>>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>> This is an interesting topic that is very helpful because of the
>>>>>>candidness of the respondents. Because of that I would like to
>>>>>ask a
>>>>>>question.
>>>>>>Sighted people use eye contact to initiate communication.
>>>>>Obviously,
>>>>>>that does not work for initiating communication with a person who
>>>>>is
>>>>>>blind. That is why it is awkward for a waitress in a restaurant
>>>>>or for
>>>>>>a stranger in a mall to make first contact in a way to know the
>>>>>speaker
>>>>>>is addressing the person who is blind.
>>>>>>A number of totally blind friends recommend a light quick touch
>>>>>to let
>>>>>>them know they are the person being addressed, so that is what I
>>>>>>recommend. I was wondering what some or you think.
>>>>>>Also, many people who are totally blind like to hold and cling
>>>>>during a
>>>>>>conversation. That can get pretty awkward and down right
>>>>>embarrassing a
>>>>>>times.
>>>>>>I would appreciate your thoughts.
>>>>>>Paul Weingartner
>>>>>>Making the Cross Accessible
>>>>>>Center for the Blind of the Assemblies of God
>>>>>>P 417.831.1964 F 417.862.5120
>>>>>>www.blind.ag.org
>>>>>>www.blindonline.ag.org
>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 7:47 AM
>>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>>It has nothing to do with blindness in my case. I just hate
>>>>>being
>>>>>>touched.
>>>>>>Steve
>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>From: "dewey bradley" <dewey.bradley at gmail.com
>>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 8:40 PM
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>>> Allot of sighted people think that they can't talk to us without
>>>>>>putting
>>>>>>> there hands on us.
>>>>>>> The thing is allot of people like my self really hate to be
>>>>>touched,
>>>>>>When
>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>> ask them to please take there hands off, they get mad.
>>>>>>> I guess there is no across the board answer for things like
>>>>>this.
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com
>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 10:42 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>>>> This is a very complicated topic. There are those, like me, who
>>>>>>don't
>>>>>>>> like being touched during conversations with individuals I
>>>>>really
>>>>>>don't
>>>>>>>> know very well. I'm wondering if blind individuals understand
>>>>>>spacial
>>>>>>>> concepts during conversations. You don't want to be too close
>>>>>during
>>>>>>a
>>>>>>>> conversation or too far away. I suspect most of us who
>>>>>understand
>>>>>>this
>>>>>>>> art have had some coaching from sighted individuals whom they
>>>>>trust.
>>>>>>>> \
>>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net
>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:46 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>>>>>I was raised giving and receiving warm hand shakes, or in some
>>>>>>>>> situations, embraces and or kisses, all of which seem to me to
>>>>>be
>>>>>>>>> quite germ spreading! I like the bowing idea a lot!
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>From: Joel Zimba <jzimba at cavtel.net
>>>>>>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Sat, 23 May 2009 17:08:35 -0400
>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>I love these kinds of topics. I believe the issue of blind or
>>>>>>>>> sighted
>>>>>>>>>>is mostly meaningless when it comes to whether you should touch
>>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>>or not. It comes down more to how comfortable you are with what
>>>>>>>>> you are
>>>>>>>>>>doing and your motivation for it.
>>>>>>>>>>The examples of folks talking with their hands is a great one.
>>>>>>>>> It's not
>>>>>>>>>>so much that they talk with their hands, but that touching is a
>>>>>>>>> means of
>>>>>>>>>>communication. In fact, if you are comfortable enough with
>>>>>>>>> yurself to
>>>>>>>>>>touch someone else while speaking to them, you'll pull them into
>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>paradigm. This is common wisdom in the sales world.
>>>>>>>>>>For the blind among us, (myself included) this is most easily
>>>>>>>>> donw with
>>>>>>>>>>the back of the hand and making solid contact.
>>>>>>>>>>When it comes to shaking hands, I decided to take the initiative
>>>>>>>>> early
>>>>>>>>>>and often. When someone doesn't take my hand, I leave it out
>>>>>>>>> there and
>>>>>>>>>>then eventually start snapping my fingers. This calls attention
>>>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>>>>>fact that the other people are not playing the social game. I
>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>taught that it is not obligatory for women to shake hands. Long
>>>>>>>>> ago I
>>>>>>>>>>decided that if women want equal rights, they can do the glad
>>>>>>>>> handing as
>>>>>>>>>>well, so I expect them to shake and I do the snapping as well. I
>>>>>>>>>>sometimes let the elderly off the hook, though oddly, the older
>>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>>is, the more likely they are to initiate or take my hand. Proper
>>>>>>>>>>conduct seems to not always be taught to the younger generation.
>>>>>>>>> Maybe
>>>>>>>>>>we all need to go back to finishing school.
>>>>>>>>>>Now, if someone could explain the bowing protocol to me so that
>>>>>>>>> my Asian
>>>>>>>>>>friends would be surprised and pleased by my manners, I would be
>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>>greatful.
>>>>>>>>>>Joel
>>>>>>>>>>On 5/23/2009 12:40 PM, Jeffrey Schwartz wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Gerardo,
>>>>>>>>>>> I am also blind as a result of RP and a clinical psychologist.
>>>>>>>>> My vision
>>>>>>>>>>> deteriorated at a different pace. I drove a car until I was 27
>>>>>>>>> and did not
>>>>>>>>>>> require adaptive technology to read and write until I was about
>>>>>>>>> 40. Now, at
>>>>>>>>>>> 61, I have little more than light perception. When younger, I
>>>>>>>>> was often
>>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed when my wife kindly noted that someone was reaching
>>>>>>>>> out to shake
>>>>>>>>>>> my hand and I was not noticing. Eventually, I learned to avoid
>>>>>>>>> this problem
>>>>>>>>>>> by taking the initiative. On occasion I reach out to discover
>>>>>>>>> that the
>>>>>>>>>>> person has quickly turned their back or departed, no big deal.
>>>>>>>>> I have had
>>>>>>>>>>> no experience with the touching. There are cultural differences
>>>>>>>>> in such
>>>>>>>>>>> nonverbal behaviors. For example, cultures vary in terms of
>>>>>>>>> what is
>>>>>>>>>>> regarded as personal space. Groups vary in terms of how close
>>>>>>>>> they stand to
>>>>>>>>>>> each other when speaking, and also with regard to touching which
>>>>>>>>> is common
>>>>>>>>>>> in some cultures and taboo in others. Perhaps your blindness
>>>>>>>>> has led you to
>>>>>>>>>>> exceed what is common in your culture or your parents may have
>>>>>>>>> felt bad for
>>>>>>>>>>> you when they saw you reach out to touch someone and the person
>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>>> departed. There are also a group of behaviors known as
>>>>>>>>> blindisms. We all
>>>>>>>>>>> conduct little rituals of personal hygiene when alone which we
>>>>>>>>> would not do
>>>>>>>>>>> in front of others. There is a tendency, particularly if one
>>>>>>>>> loses their
>>>>>>>>>>> vision gradually to assume that others see as we do. I am often
>>>>>>>>> surprised
>>>>>>>>>>> by what others can see. We assume that if we can't see
>>>>>>>>> something others can
>>>>>>>>>>> not either. This can lead us to embarrass ourselves by
>>>>>>>>> performing these
>>>>>>>>>>> grooming rituals in public. Recently, I have noticed that when
>>>>>>>>> I am walking
>>>>>>>>>>> and thinking about a conversation which I had or will have with
>>>>>>>>> someone, I
>>>>>>>>>>> am moving my lips as if I were speaking. I am working on
>>>>>>>>> suppressing this
>>>>>>>>>>> behavior as I am certain that the sighted would see it as
>>>>>>>>> strange. Behavior
>>>>>>>>>>> is so ritualized, and blindness can lead us to engage in some
>>>>>>>>> peculiar ones.
>>>>>>>>>>> As professionals, in particular, we don't want to be seen as odd
>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>> idiosyncratic.
>>>>>>>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Cindy Handel
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 9:55 AM
>>>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>>>>>>> Gerardo,
>>>>>>>>>>> Most of the time, when I would like to shake the hand of a
>>>>>>>>> sighted person, I
>>>>>>>>>>> just extend my hand and they grasp it and we shake hands.
>>>>>>>>>>> As far as touching the arm of people, I've never done this.
>>>>>>>>> When do you do
>>>>>>>>>>> this? If you're talking with someone, it shouldn't be
>>>>>>>>> necessary, since
>>>>>>>>>>> they're participating in the conversation. I think we've all
>>>>>>>>> experienced a
>>>>>>>>>>> time when we're talking to someone and learn that they walked
>>>>>>>>> away. Now, if
>>>>>>>>>>> you're referring to touching a person's arm to make sure they're
>>>>>>>>> still there
>>>>>>>>>>> as a way to insure that you still have their attention, that's
>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>> different. I have met sighted people who talk with their hands
>>>>>>>>> and touch my
>>>>>>>>>>> arm or shoulder, for emphasis. So, that might not be so
>>>>>>>>> unusual.
>>>>>>>>>>> Cindy
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Gerardo Corripio"<gera1027 at prodigy.net.mx
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "Blind-Talk"<blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 11:35 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi listers:
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm Gerardo from Mexico; 31 years old and a Psychologist working
>>>>>>>>> on my own
>>>>>>>>>>> in my private practice.
>>>>>>>>>>> Hopefully I'll be able to learn lots of great things from you
>>>>>>>>> guys,
>>>>>>>>>>> especially of the NFB way of viewing and living with blindness.
>>>>>>>>>>> Now for my debut question: I've been blind all my life due to
>>>>>>>>> RP; since I
>>>>>>>>>>> was a teenager I remember developing a habbit of touching the
>>>>>>>>> arm of the
>>>>>>>>>>> people constanly to be sure he/she was still there. I continued
>>>>>>>>> to do this
>>>>>>>>>>> into adulthood until my family made the observation that this
>>>>>>>>> behavior isn't
>>>>>>>>>>> seen well by the sighted only a few days ago. I'm still shocked
>>>>>>>>> by this
>>>>>>>>>>> observation to the point that now how to know if the person is
>>>>>>>>> still there?
>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, the voice gives feedback but when people talk it feels as
>>>>>>>>> if they're
>>>>>>>>>>> there but aren't there. How have you coped with this situation
>>>>>>>>> in that you
>>>>>>>>>>> have to get rid of the habbit before-mentioned? Surely it has
>>>>>>>>> happened to
>>>>>>>>>>> some of you?
>>>>>>>>>>> also when shaking hands with sighted people how to find the hand
>>>>>>>>> to shake if
>>>>>>>>>>> the sighted person doesn't take the initiative?
>>>>>>>>>>> As you can see I've still have lots of tips and tricks to learn
>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>> blindness, thus my interest in joining the list.
>>>>>>>>>>> Gerardo
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
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