[Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind

Jeffrey Schwartz sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net
Sat May 30 13:18:49 UTC 2009 

It is chauvinistic to assume that all credible  knowledge resides within
Western culture.  It is childish and ignorant to misapply the vast body of
Eastern wisdom.  
-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of trishs
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 11:29 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind

Excuse me.  Perhaps my words touched your ears, and you've 
misunderstood them?  Or, perhaps I wasn't quite following the 
thread?  It's possible.  I make mistakes from time to time, too.  
No worries!

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net
>To: "'NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Thu, 28 May 2009 17:25:41 -0400
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind

>Sorry, but I still have no idea what you are talking about, nor 
do you.

>-----Original Message-----
>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>Behalf Of trishs
>Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 7:28 AM
>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind

>This applied to the intension of touch.

>> ----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net
>>To: "'NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>Date sent: Wed, 27 May 2009 17:11:23 -0400
>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind

>>And just what does this have to do with touching or being
>touched?  Can you
>>tell which organ someone is touching you with by its energy
>pathway?
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>Behalf Of trishs
>>Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 12:15 PM
>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind

>>In Eastern medicine it's called a meridian.  There are energy
>>channels which correspond to each body organ, which Eastern
>>cultures have mapped for about as long as there's been medicine.

>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net
>>>To: "'NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>Date sent: Tue, 26 May 2009 21:09:33 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind

>>>What in the world is an "energy Pathway"

>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>Behalf Of trishs
>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 11:51 AM
>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind

>>>As far as "across the board answers", and people getting "mad",
>>>we each have the power and self responsibility to say I'm
>>>uncomfortable with that," or "Stop it! That's inappropriate!"  Or
>>>"Could you do that again?"  I feel as though I can speak for most
>>>people when I say that we have all been in situations where a
>>>person's touch "creeped us out", or made us want more.  There are
>>>many types of touch, and it is ALL ABOUT INTENSION, which is
>>>carried through invisible energy pathways.
>>>There are also times when we misunderstand, or misinterpret
>>>someone's touch.  It can be difficult to navigate these energy
>>>pathways, so your power is in your own intension for your own
>>>comfort level.

>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "Steve P.  Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com
>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>Date sent: Tue, 26 May 2009 08:47:07 -0400
>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind

>>>>It has nothing to do with blindness in my case.  I just hate
>>>being touched.

>>>>Steve
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "dewey bradley" <dewey.bradley at gmail.com
>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 8:40 PM
>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind


>>>>> Allot of sighted people think that they can't talk to us without
>>>putting
>>>>> there hands on us.
>>>>> The thing is allot of people like my self really hate to be
>>>touched, When
>>>>> we
>>>>> ask them to please take there hands off, they get mad.
>>>>> I guess there is no across the board answer for things like
>>>this.
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Steve P.  Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com
>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 10:42 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind


>>>>>> This is a very complicated topic.  There are those, like me, who
>>>don't
>>>>>> like being touched during conversations with individuals I
>>>really don't
>>>>>> know very well.  I'm wondering if blind individuals understand
>>>spacial
>>>>>> concepts during conversations.  You don't want to be too close
>>>during a
>>>>>> conversation or too far away.  I suspect most of us who
>>>understand this
>>>>>> art have had some coaching from sighted individuals whom they
>>>trust.
>>>>>> \
>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net
>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:46 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind


>>>>>>>I was raised giving and receiving warm hand shakes, or in some
>>>>>>> situations, embraces and or kisses, all of which seem to me to
>>>be
>>>>>>> quite germ spreading!  I like the bowing idea a lot!

>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>From: Joel Zimba <jzimba at cavtel.net
>>>>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>Date sent: Sat, 23 May 2009 17:08:35 -0400
>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind

>>>>>>>>Hi,

>>>>>>>>I love these kinds of topics.  I believe the issue of blind or
>>>>>>> sighted
>>>>>>>>is mostly meaningless when it comes to whether you should touch
>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>or not.  It comes down more to how comfortable you are with what
>>>>>>> you are
>>>>>>>>doing and your motivation for it.

>>>>>>>>The examples of folks talking with their hands is a great one.
>>>>>>> It's not
>>>>>>>>so much that they talk with their hands, but that touching is a
>>>>>>> means of
>>>>>>>>communication.  In fact, if you are comfortable enough with
>>>>>>> yurself to
>>>>>>>>touch someone else while speaking to them, you'll pull them into
>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>paradigm.  This is common wisdom in the sales world.

>>>>>>>>For the blind among us, (myself included) this is most easily
>>>>>>> donw with
>>>>>>>>the back of the hand and making solid contact.

>>>>>>>>When it comes to shaking hands, I decided to take the initiative
>>>>>>> early
>>>>>>>>and often.  When someone doesn't take my hand, I leave it out
>>>>>>> there and
>>>>>>>>then eventually start snapping my fingers.  This calls attention
>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>>>fact that the other people are not playing the social game.  I
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>taught that it is not obligatory for women to shake hands.  Long
>>>>>>> ago I
>>>>>>>>decided that if women want equal rights, they can do the glad
>>>>>>> handing as
>>>>>>>>well, so I expect them to shake and I do the snapping as well.  I
>>>>>>>>sometimes let the elderly off the hook, though oddly, the older
>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>is, the more likely they are to initiate or take my hand.  Proper
>>>>>>>>conduct seems to not always be taught to the younger generation.
>>>>>>> Maybe
>>>>>>>>we all need to go back to finishing school.

>>>>>>>>Now, if someone could explain the bowing protocol to me so that
>>>>>>> my Asian
>>>>>>>>friends would be surprised and pleased by my manners, I would be
>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>greatful.

>>>>>>>>Joel

>>>>>>>>On 5/23/2009 12:40 PM, Jeffrey Schwartz wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi Gerardo,
>>>>>>>>> I am also blind as a result of RP and a clinical psychologist.
>>>>>>> My vision
>>>>>>>>> deteriorated at a different pace.  I drove a car until I was 27
>>>>>>> and did not
>>>>>>>>> require adaptive technology to read and write until I was about
>>>>>>> 40.  Now, at
>>>>>>>>> 61, I have little more than light perception.  When younger, I
>>>>>>> was often
>>>>>>>>> embarrassed when my wife kindly noted that someone was reaching
>>>>>>> out to shake
>>>>>>>>> my hand and I was not noticing.  Eventually, I learned to avoid
>>>>>>> this problem
>>>>>>>>> by taking the initiative.  On occasion I reach out to discover
>>>>>>> that the
>>>>>>>>> person has quickly turned their back or departed, no big deal.
>>>>>>> I have had
>>>>>>>>> no experience with the touching.  There are cultural differences
>>>>>>> in such
>>>>>>>>> nonverbal behaviors.  For example, cultures vary in terms of
>>>>>>> what is
>>>>>>>>> regarded as personal space.  Groups vary in terms of how close
>>>>>>> they stand to
>>>>>>>>> each other when speaking, and also with regard to touching which
>>>>>>> is common
>>>>>>>>> in some cultures and taboo in others.  Perhaps your blindness
>>>>>>> has led you to
>>>>>>>>> exceed what is common in your culture or your parents may have
>>>>>>> felt bad for
>>>>>>>>> you when they saw you reach out to touch someone and the person
>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>> departed.  There are also a group of behaviors known as
>>>>>>> blindisms.  We all
>>>>>>>>> conduct little rituals of personal hygiene when alone which we
>>>>>>> would not do
>>>>>>>>> in front of others.  There is a tendency, particularly if one
>>>>>>> loses their
>>>>>>>>> vision gradually to assume that others see as we do.  I am often
>>>>>>> surprised
>>>>>>>>> by what others can see.  We assume that if we can't see
>>>>>>> something others can
>>>>>>>>> not either.  This can lead us to embarrass ourselves by
>>>>>>> performing these
>>>>>>>>> grooming rituals in public.  Recently, I have noticed that when
>>>>>>> I am walking
>>>>>>>>> and thinking about a conversation which I had or will have with
>>>>>>> someone, I
>>>>>>>>> am moving my lips as if I were speaking.  I am working on
>>>>>>> suppressing this
>>>>>>>>> behavior as I am certain that the sighted would see it as
>>>>>>> strange.  Behavior
>>>>>>>>> is so ritualized, and blindness can lead us to engage in some
>>>>>>> peculiar ones.
>>>>>>>>> As professionals, in particular, we don't want to be seen as odd
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>> idiosyncratic.
>>>>>>>>> Jeff

>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Cindy Handel
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 9:55 AM
>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind

>>>>>>>>> Gerardo,

>>>>>>>>> Most of the time, when I would like to shake the hand of a
>>>>>>> sighted person, I

>>>>>>>>> just extend my hand and they grasp it and we shake hands.

>>>>>>>>> As far as touching the arm of people, I've never done this.
>>>>>>> When do you do
>>>>>>>>> this?  If you're talking with someone, it shouldn't be
>>>>>>> necessary, since
>>>>>>>>> they're participating in the conversation.  I think we've all
>>>>>>> experienced a
>>>>>>>>> time when we're talking to someone and learn that they walked
>>>>>>> away.  Now, if

>>>>>>>>> you're referring to touching a person's arm to make sure they're
>>>>>>> still there

>>>>>>>>> as a way to insure that you still have their attention, that's
>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>> different.  I have met sighted people who talk with their hands
>>>>>>> and touch my

>>>>>>>>> arm or shoulder, for emphasis.  So, that might not be so
>>>>>>> unusual.

>>>>>>>>> Cindy
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Gerardo Corripio"<gera1027 at prodigy.net.mx
>>>>>>>>> To: "Blind-Talk"<blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 11:35 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind


>>>>>>>>> Hi listers:
>>>>>>>>> I'm Gerardo from Mexico; 31 years old and a Psychologist working
>>>>>>> on my own
>>>>>>>>> in my private practice.
>>>>>>>>> Hopefully I'll be able to learn lots of great things from you
>>>>>>> guys,
>>>>>>>>> especially of the NFB way of viewing and living with blindness.
>>>>>>>>> Now for my debut question: I've been blind all my life due to
>>>>>>> RP; since I
>>>>>>>>> was a teenager I remember developing a habbit of touching the
>>>>>>> arm of the
>>>>>>>>> people constanly to be sure he/she was still there.  I continued
>>>>>>> to do this
>>>>>>>>> into adulthood until my family made the observation that this
>>>>>>> behavior isn't
>>>>>>>>> seen well by the sighted only a few days ago.  I'm still shocked
>>>>>>> by this
>>>>>>>>> observation to the point that now how to know if the person is
>>>>>>> still there?
>>>>>>>>> Yes, the voice gives feedback but when people talk it feels as
>>>>>>> if they're
>>>>>>>>> there but aren't there.  How have you coped with this situation
>>>>>>> in that you
>>>>>>>>> have to get rid of the habbit before-mentioned? Surely it has
>>>>>>> happened to
>>>>>>>>> some of you?
>>>>>>>>> also when shaking hands with sighted people how to find the hand
>>>>>>> to shake if
>>>>>>>>> the sighted person doesn't take the initiative?
>>>>>>>>> As you can see I've still have lots of tips and tricks to learn
>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>> blindness, thus my interest in joining the list.
>>>>>>>>> Gerardo


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>>>Date:
>>>>>> 05/24/09
>>>>>> 07:09:00


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